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Sam Darnold Discussion Thread: MERGED


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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Did you watch that Baldy breakdown, like the actual footage?  Darnold was on his like 4th maybe 5th read, bouncing his eyes feet around to each target, then it looks like Berrios runs an option route, so Sam threw this one a tad off platform but shoulders perfectly square to the target and led him perfectly, legit hard to place it better.  This was a 10 yard route to the middle of the field.  It's not like he was trying to drive something down the seam, or to the sidelines or a long ball, etc.  Anywho, the still makes it look much worse than it is. 

 

 


@Losmeister if you’re interested, JiF’s explanation starts at 4:51 of that video.

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6 minutes ago, deucebag said:

I think you missed the point.  Do you tailor a QB to the offense or the offense to the QB?  Would Sean Payton tell Drew Brees to throw bombs every 3rd series?  No - because he can't anymore and that was never really his strength.   Would you tell Dan Marino to throw screens and shallow crosses - well you saw it happen, look what Jimmy Johnson did to Marino - forced him into a ball control offense to the detriment of the team.  

 

Now for some de ja vu, Sam and Mark, both USC QBs coming out early who have not mastered football but played pretty damn well because they were in a loose improvisational offense at USC.  Mark comes to the Jets, gets told he cannot throw on the run anymore because its too dangerous, so he was forced into a drop back pocket passer - he was uncomfortable, could not get set, got happy feet, his mechanics went to crap and then was told he's stupid and can only throw a pass based on a color coded system and he better not turnover the ball.   Sam. same deal in college, comes to the Jets and just when he starts getting "it" towards the end of his rookie year, the following year he's forced into Gase world.   Drop back, stand in the pocket, run the play as called and do not under any circumstance turn the ball over.  Sam's instinct is to scramble and throw, but instead, whenever he feels that urge, he starts and then sees Gase in his head - NO SCRAMBLING, NO TURNOVERS.  You could have the crappiest WRs in football but if they are trained to come back to the QB when he's scrambling (rather than STICK TO THE PLAY AS CALLED), they can get open.

 

GASE<Bruce Coslet<Joe Walton....we've been here before guys SMH! 

 

One thing about NFL coaches - they are stubborn, they believe what they believe and if anything goes wrong its someone else's fault.  Words of Bill Parcells - "I NEVER second guess myself".  

no words excuse him for being worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick...

you think Sam can string 3 QBR 60 and above? until then, its all a buncha hot air excuses cos you hate to contemplate we totally picked the wrong guy....  LJ and Allen are wayyyyyyy beyond him and Baker has a slight lead....and Rosen has collapse into a state of ego-shock....

RESULTS? or EXCUSES? choose.

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I mean the whole thing started when he got drafted. He was drafted to a team whose GM and HC wouldn't be the same people starting his 2nd year. Drafting a QB #3 overall with a FO that you don't believe in enough to give a few years is a recipe for disaster. Then I don't know what the hell happened with picking up Gase. I mean you have a front row seat to watching him suck and get fired in the division and you think what "I'd sure like some of that."

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's the surrounding cast AND Darnold.  Darnold isn't the guy, and Douglas knows it. 

At Darnold's best he's still an average or below average QB, with Andy Dalton as his ceiling.  We can, should, and will, do better.

I fundamentally disagree with your projected ceiling for Sam, but truth be told, the Jets have not had a QB as good as Andy Dalton since 2008 (Old Favre). And they almost went to the Super Bowl with Mark Friggin Sanchez.

If Sam ends up Eli Manning, we are good assuming Douglas can build this team the right way.

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Gase is turning Darnold into a robot, boxing him into a system where he's becoming gun-shy about making mistakes.

Yes, but there is a reason:

Darnold was limited last year because all he had was Crowder and Anderson.  This year, its worse, all he has is Hogan.  The injuries are so pathetic and so brutal, I honestly can't blame Gase for being Mr. Conservative.  There is no one for Darnold to throw to.

Reserve judgement for a few weeks when we will look like this:

Perriman
Mims
Crowder
Herndon
Bell

How can one judge Darnold without seeing all 5 on the field at the same time?  That's our passing offense.  All we've got is Herndon.  It is not an exaggeration to say this is the worst its ever been in team history.  The receiver injuries are outrageous.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

If they're wrong they are wrong but that's what I was going off of. Not that any of it matters. He has bad mechanics.

He was a highly touted QB coming out of HS.  He doesn’t have bad mechanics, that’s just fanspeak.  QBs throw off their back foot or throw jump passes and whatever crazy pass we love Mahomes for and now complain about Darnold throwing.  He was bad against the Bills.  Wasn’t bad mechanics, It was a bad game

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2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I would love to see him play a game or two here with even an average (15th or 16th best?) supporting cast. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen and that is what bums me out most about the entire Darnold tenure. We have never even come close to putting a competitive roster around a QB who we picked at number 3 overall (and traded 3 second round picks for). 

It's just incredible to me. 

this is why i think we're Gase?darnold thru 2021 comehell or high water...

tryna get JD/Gase/Williams' guys in....

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47 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Look, I like Sam, but if we're passing judgement and pointing blame, he's got to get some too.

I have seen Tom Brady visibly upset, shouting at receivers and linemen on the bench many times.  I've seen Drew Brees visibly mad at himself, pounding his helmet into the turf.  I've seen QB's go after their own defenders being held back by their linemen when they've mouthed off about a turnover.  Hell, Mike Vick owned a dog fighting ring.  I don't see any on-field or sideline emotion from Sam and as bad as our team is playing, perhaps a team captain should be holding himself and his own players accountable there too.

Yes, a steady, cool demeanor is a must for a franchise quarterback.  But I've yet to see Sam go nuclear and I'd like to.  Times like this almost demand it, no different than an NHL coach putting his goons out on the opening faceoff to set the tone.

SAR I

Yeah, sam going nuclear. That would play well in the NY press. Plus, if Sam’s paying attention he knows that his HC pulls players who become “emotional” during the game.

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12 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Sam played well against the 49ers – did everything he was asked to do. Hogan drop, Herndon dropped touchdown, Malone drop, bad calls on 4th and 1, Not allowed to do a quarterback sneak, no pass is called over 6 yards because there’s not a lot of plays in the NFL that can get seven yards

sam looked just fine yesterday to me

He did indeed look fine, and was one of the best players on the field.  But the problem is "fine" is about the best you're ever going to get from him at his peak.

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3 minutes ago, Barkus said:

Go watch sam’s TD throw to Berrios, that was a sick play. Not many QBs can make that play. He has talent. Get him some WR and a better coach and the team can win with Sam.

The "wow" plays are nice.  But they do not make a QB.  It's the boring, consistent stuff Darnold fails at.  And nothing in his profile/resume/mechanics/decision-making to date suggests he'll ever get good at that.

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What's happenning is he was terribly inexperianced coming out of college and was never nearly as good as fans thought.

The amount of people who sneered at Qbases bust to barely a JAG projection that are now continue to blame anyone but Sam is kind of comical.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The "wow" plays are nice.  But they do not make a QB.  It's the boring, consistent stuff Darnold fails at.  And nothing in his profile/resume/mechanics/decision-making to date suggests he'll ever get good at that.

Puncher, not a boxer 

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Adam Gase happened  and no wrs happened-it really is that simple
give a young qb a coach and a star wr and suddenly they develop
coaching matters and weapons matter
the real question is why did we draft a franchise qb and set him up to fail?
I am sure Sam wants out as fast as he can-he looks at Tannehill and says just hang in until the contract ends the run for the hills
 
He'll be out next year.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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2 minutes ago, CTM said:

What's happenning is he was terribly inexperianced coming out of college and was never nearly as good as fans thought.

The amount of people who sneered at Qbases bust to barely a JAG projection that are now continue to blame anyone but Sam is kind of comical.

Yep.  Even under ideal circumstances, Darnold just wasn't/isn't good enough to ever be a franchise QB. 

Transport Darnold to Kansas City and remove Mahomes, and Reid would certainly win some games with him, just like he did with Alex Smith.  But just like Alex Smith, he'd know Darnold isn't good enough, and would be looking for the next QB to draft to replace him.

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  Even under ideal circumstances, Darnold just wasn't/isn't good enough to ever be a franchise QB. 

Transport Darnold to Kansas City and remove Mahomes, and Reid would certainly win some games with him, just like he did with Alex Smith.  But just like Alex Smith, he'd know Darnold isn't good enough, and would be looking for the next QB to draft to replace him.

I don't know that id go that far but people act like this was a cant miss prospect when in reality he was a high risk potential high reward.

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12 minutes ago, CTM said:

What's happenning is he was terribly inexperianced coming out of college and was never nearly as good as fans thought.

The amount of people who sneered at Qbases bust to barely a JAG projection that are now continue to blame anyone but Sam is kind of comical.

What about those who sneered at their Allen being undraftable projection?

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4 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

What about those who sneered at their Allen being undraftable projection?

Undraftable?  No, I don't think anyone ever said that.  Unworthy of a high first round draft pick?  Absolutely, and I still believe that.  Quality performances against the Jets and Dolphins don't move the needle there.  He's a fun guy to watch but will always shrivel up against good defenses.  

With hindsight, Lamar Jackson was the only worthy 1st round QB in that class, and will remain so.

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1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

 

 

His feet are almost always wrong.  It doesn't change.  

He's either the most stubborn, cement-headed dummy or his "coaches" are to blame  (ahem.. translation: Gase... b/c there is no QB coach on the Jets...  not even after investing a 1st and three 2nd rounders to draft Sam Darnold) 

You can't make this stuff up.   

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Undraftable?  No, I don't think anyone ever said that.  Unworthy of a high first round draft pick?  Absolutely, and I still believe that.  Quality performances against the Jets and Dolphins don't move the needle there.  He's a fun guy to watch but will always shrivel up against good defenses.  

With hindsight, Lamar Jackson was the only worthy 1st round QB in that class, and will remain so.

The consensus at Football Outsiders has always been pessimistic about Allen's chances for success. Our QBASE article in 2018 noted Allen's "horrifying" statistics at the University of Wyoming, and we referred to him as "a parody of an NFL quarterback prospect" in Football Outsiders Almanac that same year.

Pretty scathing.

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1 minute ago, Dcat said:

His feet are almost always wrong.  It doesn't change.  

He's either the most stubborn, cement-headed dummy or his "coaches" (ahem.. translation: Gase b/c there is no QB coach on the Jets...  not even after investing a 1st and three 3rd rounders to draft the aaleleged future of the franchise)

You can't make this stuff up.   

Sarkisian, Bates,Gates, Jordan Palmer...     mytake is that it's muscle memory...  far too many reps, thousands upon thousands....

he CANNOT correct it.... shrug...

in the end IDGAF, Fire Gase 2nite for all i care....    get the corpse of Walsh in to coach Sam....

the last 3 years multiple outlets have nailed it, Jets have a bottom feeder roster....

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Undraftable?  No, I don't think anyone ever said that.  Unworthy of a high first round draft pick?  Absolutely, and I still believe that.  Quality performances against the Jets and Dolphins don't move the needle there.  He's a fun guy to watch but will always shrivel up against good defenses.  

With hindsight, Lamar Jackson was the only worthy 1st round QB in that class, and will remain so.

Allen certainly has ALOT oftime tothrow...  and the intermediate stuff? He is not throwing fastballs all thetime...

 

looks very different to me....

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56 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He was a highly touted QB coming out of HS.  He doesn’t have bad mechanics, that’s just fanspeak.  QBs throw off their back foot or throw jump passes and whatever crazy pass we love Mahomes for and now complain about Darnold throwing.  He was bad against the Bills.  Wasn’t bad mechanics, It was a bad game

It's bad mechanics. You wouldn't teach somebody to throw like that from the pocket. I don't particularly care that his mechanics are bad because all QBs are different but you just would not teach what he does. Doesn't mean it makes him a bad player, but he throws from poor angles when he doesn't have to, and doesn't set himself when he has time to. When you do that you better make those throws.

He's not Mahomes.

He's got great ability. Part of that is what makes Darnold so tantalizing. The TD throw to Berrios was incredible when you watch it from other angles, the pass to Robby against Oakland as well. But those throws aren't mechanical, those are just incredible throws that some QBs can make. The bad mechanics comes from when he's sitting in the pocket.

And it's not fan speak cause some "experts" will tell you the same thing. 

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7 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

It's bad mechanics. You wouldn't teach somebody to throw like that from the pocket. I don't particularly care that his mechanics are bad because all QBs are different but you just would not teach what he does. Doesn't mean it makes him a bad player, but he throws from poor angles when he doesn't have to, and doesn't set himself when he has time to. When you do that you better make those throws.

He's not Mahomes.

He's got great ability. Part of that is what makes Darnold so tantalizing. The TD throw to Berrios was incredible when you watch it from other angles, the pass to Robby against Oakland as well. But those throws aren't mechanical, those are just incredible throws that some QBs can make. The bad mechanics comes from when he's sitting in the pocket.

And it's not fan speak cause some "experts" will tell you the same thing. 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Dcat said:

His feet are almost always wrong.  It doesn't change.  

He's either the most stubborn, cement-headed dummy or his "coaches" are to blame  (ahem.. translation: Gase... b/c there is no QB coach on the Jets...  not even after investing a 1st and three 2nd rounders to draft Sam Darnold) 

You can't make this stuff up.   

I've thought about this too. I simply cannot imagine the coaches (and Jordan Palmer, and anyone who advises him about football) don't look at his tape and tell him to set his feet. He's never set, and half the time he's like throwing a fade off his back foot. He just has awful tendencies. And I kind think he's just dopey and undisciplined.

Gase is clearly a problem but this kinda reeks of a guy who has bad instincts and falls into them when things are going poorly.

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