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Sam Darnold Discussion Thread: MERGED


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16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

It is not.  There is nothing with his mechanics that are a problem.  Coming out of school he had a longish loop, its gone, was gone by the time he has his pro day.  His release is fine and when he can set all is fine with his mechanics.  

I didnt say he was Mahomes, you know what I meant.  Mahomes passes off his back foot ints incredible, when someone else does its bad mechanics.  

And it is fanspeak because you dont hear "experts" analyze and complain about Darnold mechanics, just fans.

 

 

Literally from Greg Cossel:

Greg Cosell, who breaks down film on ESPN’s “NFL Matchup” show, studied six of Darnold’s games from last season, including the Cowboys and Patriots games.

“What makes Darnold a hard and frustrating evaluation is that he can make high-level throws without proper lower-body mechanics,” Cosell said. “That’s a knack that he has, but as a coach you do not want to accept poor mechanics.”
see also
Is Sam Darnold the Jets' savior?

It is a tricky thing for Gase and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains. Darnold has the ability to make throws off of a “bad platform,” in football-speak. That can be a good thing. But it also can result in bad habits. The Jets must walk the line of trying to improve Darnold’s mechanics without taking things out of his game that make him special.

“Darnold’s lack of consistent footwork and balance in the pocket have been the same since I evaluated him coming out of USC,” Cosell said. “It may be one of those things that you have to live with and work within that framework.”

https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/sam-darnolds-future-nfl-experts-give-jets-qb-mixed-reviews/

Mahommes gets away with throwing off his back foot cause he's ******* Patrick Mahomes and his accuracy and arm strength from throwing from awkward platforms is unreal. Darnold isn't Mahommes and never will be, he's garbage.

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20 hours ago, Losmeister said:

 

 excuses are broing. 

 

 

19 hours ago, JiF said:

Did you watch that Baldy breakdown, like the actual footage?  Darnold was on his like 4th maybe 5th read, bouncing his eyes feet around to each target, then it looks like Berrios runs an option route, so Sam threw this one a tad off platform but shoulders perfectly square to the target and led him perfectly, legit hard to place it better.  This was a 10 yard route to the middle of the field.  It's not like he was trying to drive something down the seam, or to the sidelines or a long ball, etc.  Anywho, the still makes it look much worse than it is. 

 

 

Leave is to Losmeister (and Connor Hughes - for that matter) to complain about a pass that Darnold actually completes.  There's nothing like a still photograph to provide a complete "picture" of a play.

Again, I am not saying the Darnold is "the answer", but to think that showing a photograph of a successful play is supposed to prove a  derogatory point is somewhat lacking - IMHO.  I'm surprised you didn't show a still of Darnold's posture on the TD through to Berrios at the end of the game.

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18 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  Even under ideal circumstances, Darnold just wasn't/isn't good enough to ever be a franchise QB. 

Transport Darnold to Kansas City and remove Mahomes, and Reid would certainly win some games with him, just like he did with Alex Smith.  But just like Alex Smith, he'd know Darnold isn't good enough, and would be looking for the next QB to draft to replace him.

Jetsfan80, since when has Darnold played under these ideal circumstances that you speak of?  Take a look at McCown's play for the Jet's in 2018 (after having an unexpectedly decent 2017).  McCown's stats indicate that the Jets QB job was a bad work environment was less than optimal.  To say that Darnold has ever been put in a decent position is stretching the truth - IMHO

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14 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I'd love hear the rationale from any Sam booster as to why they would turn down the trade if the Bills were to call JD and offer Allen even up for Darnold.   About the only reason I could even think of at this stage is a belief that Darnold is actually better than Allen and it's Gase and Loggains holding him back.  Based on actual performance, the two aren't even close...

And the Bills played against the Jets D and Miami while the Jets faced the Bills D and SF.  Something is not equal there. 

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30 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

And the Bills played against the Jets D and Miami while the Jets faced the Bills D and SF.  Something is not equal there. 

We can all make all these arguments - level of competition, supporting cast, coaching, etc.  Who knows about the future, but at this moment in time, Allen is a superior QB to Darnold and it isn't even close...

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1 hour ago, JohnnyD said:

Jetsfan80, since when has Darnold played under these ideal circumstances that you speak of?  Take a look at McCown's play for the Jet's in 2018 (after having an unexpectedly decent 2017).  McCown's stats indicate that the Jets QB job was a bad work environment was less than optimal.  To say that Darnold has ever been put in a decent position is stretching the truth - IMHO

You misread the post.  I was saying even in hypothetical ideal circumstances, Darnold's ceiling still wouldn't be very high.  He'd be about an average or slightly above average QB.  

You can win some games with that, but you'd also be hoping for a lot more.  Think Andy Dalton.  

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3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Too slow to play RB?  Sounds like the perfect slot receiver!

Bell is too patient and shifty to be a Jets RB with the type of line and WR's we have blocking for him.

But when he catches the ball he doesn't dance around, he just runs for daylight.  Bell makes the nicest catches on the roster.  All the tough ones.  On a team with such little WR talent, we definitely miss him as a receiving threat.

SAR I

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31 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Bell is too patient and shifty to be a Jets RB with the type of line and WR's we have blocking for him.

But when he catches the ball he doesn't dance around, he just runs for daylight.  Bell makes the nicest catches on the roster.  All the tough ones.  On a team with such little WR talent, we definitely miss him as a receiving threat.

SAR I

Yes.  All the RB scouting reports say:  WEAKNESS:  Too shifty!

He makes tough catches because he is never open.  That is because he is not fast and he is easy to cover.  On that beautiful pass that Darnold dropping in on the sideline, a LB was step for step with him,.  He is not a threat at all.

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9 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

You don't think his footwork is a problem in the pocket at all? He throws from poor positions/angles when he doesn't have to. We'll agree to disagree on that. I've heard enough beat writers and some studio analysts mention it. I'm assuming they're getting it from somewhere. 

I've seen a  lot of instances where he has more than enough time to set himself and make a throw and chooses to throw the ball from an awkward position. That's what I mean when I say poor mechanics. If he makes those throws consistently, nobody will care.

The point i'm making about Mahomes is that he's a superstar. When Darnold gets to a level where he is playing well consistently, people won't care as much about how he throws the football in regards to jump throws, and throwing off his back foot. But right now, when he throws a pick like he threw in Buffalo, people will jump on him. 

I don't really care about Sam attempting passes like Mahomes does. I think that's part of his game. He's a great athlete. 

 

One more time, no I dont think its a problem.  When rushed and pushed around and there isnt and room to step into a throw hes thrown off his back foot.  Just like every other QB I've watched play the game.  Does he from time to time do it thinking hes being pressured more than he is, yes!  Mistakes arent bad mecvchanics, bad mechanics are when you consistently dont throw correctly.  

Hes also played fewer than 2 full seasons, not three.  Doesnt that mean he will fix the fact that he sometimes isnt patient and rushes?  No.  But doesnt say it wont get fixed.

We should all hope it gets fixed and we dont need two number ones to get a QB

 

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6 hours ago, artemusclyde said:

Greg Cosell, who breaks down film on ESPN’s “NFL Matchup” show, studied six of Darnold’s games from last season, including the Cowboys and Patriots games.

I'll go with the countless others from Romo to Warner, Aikman, etc etc who dont have an issue with his mechanics.  You can stick with this one and call him garbage.  I'll give him, oh I dont know, a full season of play and time to throw before I decide 

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

One more time, no I dont think its a problem.  When rushed and pushed around and there isnt and room to step into a throw hes thrown off his back foot.  Just like every other QB I've watched play the game.  Does he from time to time do it thinking hes being pressured more than he is, yes!  Mistakes arent bad mecvchanics, bad mechanics are when you consistently dont throw correctly.  

Hes also played fewer than 2 full seasons, not three.  Doesnt that mean he will fix the fact that he sometimes isnt patient and rushes?  No.  But doesnt say it wont get fixed.

We should all hope it gets fixed and we dont need two number ones to get a QB

 

Ok, well then we just simply agree to disagree on that. Maybe the correct word is "bad habit" instead of mechanics when it comes to his footwork. 

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20 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

We can all make all these arguments - level of competition, supporting cast, coaching, etc.  Who knows about the future, but at this moment in time, Allen is a superior QB to Darnold and it isn't even close...

Let's see Allen this week with a step up against a Rams D that can put bodies in his face. I think his gaudy stats will start coming down some. I won't lie I liked Allen over Sam in the draft and I still believe he has the potential to be a very talented QB but can you imagine if the Jets had drafted him, he would have been run out of town after the first PS game - the legacy of Jets fans they always want the other guy. 

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On 9/23/2020 at 5:58 PM, 56mehl56 said:

And the Bills played against the Jets D and Miami while the Jets faced the Bills D and SF.  Something is not equal there. 

Funny how grown ups have to make decisions sometimes without perfect information. 32 of 32 NFL GMs would take Allen over Darnold. “Has played good” crushes “well, under better or ideal circumstances this guy might...”

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