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Manish: Josh Allen, Sam Darnold going in opposite directions; Bills quarterback is turning into star


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2 hours ago, DonMaynardFan said:

He is electrifying, mesmerizing and giving a figurative middle finger to anyone that doubted him. He is flawed and fabulous. He is getting better every second of every day.

Give credit where it’s absolutely due: Josh Allen has become one of the game’s most dynamic young quarterbacks, a 6-5, 237-pound tank of hope for the Buffalo Bills.

He is without question the best signal caller in the AFC East right now, scratching the surface of his world of potential.

Critics like yours truly initially couldn’t see past the raw ball of clay, pointing to things he couldn’t do at Wyoming rather than seeing what he could become in a stable environment.

Allen’s sub-par completion percentage and errant passes emboldened naysayers. They became paralyzed by his shortcomings. They couldn’t envision that he would work, adapt and improve at the next level.

They couldn’t believe that brilliance was all around him, too.

They couldn’t imagine that the Bills brain trust would foster such a solid setting to help Allen evolve during this critical stage of his development by bringing in as much help as possible.

Buffalo knew that asking a kid out of college to leap tall buildings in a single bound was unfair. It could cause irreparable damage to the player and organization.

The Bills knew that it would take a village. So, general manager Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott built up Allen’s world by supplying him with protection and playmakers in a fast and efficient manner.

They created a manual on how to develop a promising young quarterback, trusting that offensive coordinator Brian Daboll would guide his pupil the proper way.

They didn’t strike gold on every decision, but the rope was pulling the right way so fast. They nailed a litany of moves that have the Bills in position to take over the AFC East for the foreseeable future.

The proof is staring all of us in the face.

Bills' Josh Allen has quietly shifted to the top of the AFC East.

Allen has grown so much since the Bills traded up to draft him with the No. 7 pick in 2018. The guy is far from perfect, but he’s made staggering improvements. There will be valleys along the way, but the arrow is pointing to the heavens.

Allen joined Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes as the only quarterbacks in NFL history with at least 700 passing yards, six touchdown passes and no interceptions in the first two weeks of a season. He set career-highs in passing yards in the first two weeks, rallying his team with a 417-yard, four-touchdown eruption in a come-from-behind win last week that earned him AFC Offensive Player of the Week honors.

Allen leads the league in passing yards (729) and ranks third in passer rating (122.9) and fifth in yards per attempt (9.0). His 70.4 completion percentage (eighth) is leaps and bounds better than his 57.7 career rate.

“He’s got ice water in his veins, man,” McDermott said. “There’s no moment too big for him. That was true from the very start when we got him here.”

Allen, frankly, is a killer. He exudes confidence. He plays with a fearlessness that makes teammates want to rally around him. He’s tougher than quantum physics.

[More Jets] Another Jets starter gets hurt as Adam Gase prepares for Colts »
Allen’s athleticism made it easy to pick apart his game in the pocket. Critics were blinded by his ability to escape trouble with his feet. So, they viewed him as nothing more than a glorified running back. It was an easy trap.

Sure, Allen could beat you with his legs, but sooner or later, he would have to come through as a “real quarterback” to be taken seriously, right?

Well, that time has arrived.

Allen’s 54 total touchdowns and 21 interceptions have helped him go 17-13 as a starter.

He’s blossoming thanks, in part, to decision makers who added playmakers like Stefon Diggs. He’s evolving before our eyes as a passer even though he clearly has plenty of room for improvement in that area.

He’s far from a finished product. He’ll have some forgettable moments this season.

He’s still learning.

Allen ran entirely too much in the season opener against the Jets (12 runs and two kneel downs). The Bills would love if he could win consistently with his arm like he did against Miami in Week 2 (only three runs and one kneel-down).

However, Allen’s dual-threat powers makes him dynamic. Finding a happy medium is the next logical step.

A long season lies ahead, but no young quarterback has improved more and faster in the past two-plus seasons than Allen.

[More Jets] Mekhi Becton, Quinnen Williams have been monsters in the trenches for Jets »
“I’ve always played with a lot of confidence,” Allen said, “But as far as knowing our playbook, knowing protections... the comfortability of the offense, it’s really good right now.”

It’s really great right now.

In so many ways, Allen reminds you of a younger Cam Newton, who looks re-born in the early stages of his second act with the Patriots. Allen and Newton are a cut above the talented Sam Darnold, who has been tasked to carry a lost franchise, and veteran Ryan Fitzpatrick at the moment.

Allen landed with the exact right franchise and the exact right people at the exact right time. His ceiling touches the heavens. Critics like me owe him our sincerest apologies.

I was intrigued by Allen before the draft and all I heard was he was the second coming of Hackenberg, blah, blah.....  but lets be honest here.   If Darnold is looking like hot garbage, we only imagine how bad Allen would be looking right now if the Jets had drafted him.  Just like with Lamar Jackson, Allen went to the right team and at the right time.    Still sucks though, that we still have not found our FQB after all these years.  

More I think about it, the more I believe we really do need to Tank for Trevor.   Darnold may need to go somewhere else and start from scratch; I'm not sure if he will ever be able to put it together here. 

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Our clock has no hands....kinda like our wide receivers.

Allen looks good to me. The Diggs trade looks like a big, big win for that team. It's almost like WRs matter or something . . . hmmm.    The only thing that still gives me pause about him is

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2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Allen looks good to me. The Diggs trade looks like a big, big win for that team. It's almost like WRs matter or something . . . hmmm. 

 

The only thing that still gives me pause about him is that I could see him being a concussion guy. He plays with a reckless abandon that I admire, but he takes a lot of big hits and already got one concussion last year. 

Yeah I think he is starting to take more precautions to protect himself.  He realizes how important he is to the team and can't afford to take those big hits anymore.  Similar to L. Jackson; staying in the pocket more.    

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2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Let's see, the hype is about victories over the New York Jets and Miami Dolphins.  LOL.

Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills have yet to beat an NFL team with a winning record with the sole exception of the perennially 9-7 pre-Tannehill Tennessee Titans.

Chiefs
Patriots
49ers
Seahawks
Steelers

Wake me later in the season if the Bills beat one of them.  Until then, they're just another wannabe who can beat the scrubs and can't beat the elites.

SAR I

 It's a team game. Allen is not beating any one by himself.  The point of the article was about how Allen has improved and is emerging as the best QB in our division, not that the Bills are the best team.   You can hate all you want but sorry, he has taken his team to the playoffs already and just continues to get better.    I would take him over Darnold in heartbeat. 

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2 hours ago, nico002 said:

Remember when Fitz opened with like 3 400 yard games in a row two years ago? I do. 

If you can't see the difference in Allen and Fitz, with one being about 22 and not yet in his prime and other damn near 42 and on the backside of his career, then I guess there really isn't anything to say. 

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57 minutes ago, JoshAllenSZN said:


Like most of what you say, this simply isn't true.

Last year the Bills beat the Cowboys -- who had a winning record at that time-- on national TV on Thanksgiving.

They also beat the Pittsburgh Steelers -- who had a winning record at that time -- on Sunday Night Football to clinch a playoff spot.

If your response is "well those teams didn't have a winning record at the end of the season", my response is "what does that have to do with the Bills?". You can only play who the schedule makers put in front of you.

It's funny how the narrative always changes about Josh Allen. Leading up to the Jets game, a lot of folks told me how Gregg Williams and the Jets improved defense were going to give him fits. They didn't, and afterwords suddenly everyone said "oh, it was just the Jets". Then, leading into the Dolphins game, most people said the cornerback trio of Byron Jones, Xavien Howard, and Noah Igbenoghene were going to shut down the Bills receivers. They didn't. Then afterwords everyone said "it was just the Dolphins". Last night, the Dolphins D looked pretty darned good...

Quit moving the goalposts. Quit living in denial. Josh Allen has improved leaps and bounds since he was drafted. He's still imperfect, but the arrow is pointing up. It's clear as day. The Bills front office surrounded him with a good offensive line, great receivers, and a creative play-caller. The Jets did none of those things for Darnold. I'm sorry that your guy hasn't turned out the way you want so far (personally, I blame it on the Jets, because Darnold is talented as hell), but to continue to live in denial that Josh Allen is turning into a good player makes you look silly.

I think he was referring to this season. The Jets beat Dallas lasr year as well so there is that. 

I give credit to the Bills though. I thought Allen had mega bust potential and they have shielded him by providing a sound environment for him to grow. 

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10 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

 It's a team game. Allen is not beating any one by himself.  The point of the article was about how Allen has improved and is emerging as the best QB in our division, not that the Bills are the best team.   You can hate all you want but sorry, he has taken his team to the playoffs already and just continues to get better.    I would take him over Darnold in heartbeat. 

Put Allen on the Jets and you will see just how bad he can be. 

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The Jets brought in Gase and continued to neglect the OL and focus on defense.

It's a text book on how NOT to handle a young QB.

The Bills have shown us exactly on how to do it. 

It really is amazing how incompetent the Jets organization is.  It's truly hard to believe a billion dollar organization can be run this poorly. 

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14 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Put Allen on the Jets and you will see just how bad he can be. 

And yet, I would still take him in a heartbeat over Darnold.  Just his ability to run would open some things up for the offense.  

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9 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

And yet, I would still take him in a heartbeat over Darnold.  Just his ability to run would open some things up for the offense.  

The Jets under the Mac regime affirmatively avoided all of the running QBs...who have turned out anywhere from HoF quality to very, very good.

Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Lamar Jackson.

He took drop back Hackenburg and Darnold, and likely would have taken Rosen if Darnold was not there.

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

everytime someone talks crap about Jordan Palmer "ruining" Sam Darnold, keep in mind Palmer trained both players all quarantine. Allen and Darnold shared a house. these two literally got the same amount of Palmer attention

one of them is dominating the other can't set his feet when he throws 

start James Morgan 

 

LOL.

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54 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

If you can't see the difference in Allen and Fitz, with one being about 22 and not yet in his prime and other damn near 42 and on the backside of his career, then I guess there really isn't anything to say. 

Of course I can see the difference. My only suggestion to you would be to wait until the sample size on Allen is a bit larger before anointing him into canton. 

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2 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Last year the Bills beat the Cowboys -- who had a winning record at that time-- on national TV on Thanksgiving.

So did the Jets!

Stop with this "at that time" crap.  At the end of a season, a team is either a winning team or not, and the Buffalo Bills in their illustrious Josh Allen history have never beaten a winning team except for the perennial 9-7 non-Tannehill Titans.  Period.

Go beat the Patriots for the first time ever, go beat the Seahawks, go beat the Chiefs, then you can puff your chest.  Until then, you are what you always have been-  the Jets in blue uniforms.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

Props to Josh Allen and the Bills organization. This seems like their year to make some noise in the playoffs.

Chiefs
Patriots
Patriots

49ers
Seahawks
Steelers

An elite team would be no less than 4-2 against those opponents.  To date, the Bills have not been able to beat teams like those since 1995.  

I'll believe it when I see it.  Until then, the Bills are the Jets in blue uniforms.  

SAR I

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1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

 It's a team game. Allen is not beating any one by himself.  The point of the article was about how Allen has improved and is emerging as the best QB in our division, not that the Bills are the best team.   You can hate all you want but sorry, he has taken his team to the playoffs already and just continues to get better.    I would take him over Darnold in heartbeat. 

Josh Allen and Josh Allen alone are the reason the Bills got humiliated in Houston last year.   He crumbles under pressure.  

Chiefs
Patriots
49ers
Seahawks
Steelers

Let's see Josh go 4-2 against those teams, then we can start saying how he's anything but a guy who can beat the scrubs and is terrible against teams that know how to win. 

SAR I

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13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

So did the Jets!

Stop with this "at that time" crap.  At the end of a season, a team is either a winning team or not, and the Buffalo Bills in their illustrious Josh Allen history have never beaten a winning team except for the perennial 9-7 non-Tannehill Titans.  Period.

Go beat the Patriots for the first time ever, go beat the Seahawks, go beat the Chiefs, then you can puff your chest.  Until then, you are what you always have been-  the Jets in blue uniforms.

SAR I

SAR has a point here. 

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6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Darnold can run as well but I think our resident offensive genius is telling him to stay in the pocket and pass. 

Yes but Darnold is not in the same class as Allen as a runner.  Allen is compared to Cam Newton athletically for a reason. 

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13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Josh Allen and Josh Allen alone are the reason the Bills got humiliated in Houston last year.   He crumbles under pressure.  

Chiefs
Patriots
49ers
Seahawks
Steelers

Let's see Josh go 4-2 against those teams, then we can start saying how he's anything but a guy who can beat the scrubs and is terrible against teams that know how to win. 

SAR I

So he had a bad game and he crumbles under pressure?  So I guess Darnold is even worse under pressure (See last years NE game when he was seeing "Ghosts").  Come on Sar, give the kid a chance.  

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30 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Of course I can see the difference. My only suggestion to you would be to wait until the sample size on Allen is a bit larger before anointing him into canton. 

Anointing him to Canton?  Really, that is such a lame Straw Man statement.  If Sam Darnold had similar stats folks would be losing their minds.   No one anointing Allen anywhere other than recognizing he is performing a lot better than the 3rd pick of that draft that we gave up 3 2nd rounders for.  

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10 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Yes but Darnold is not in the same class as Allen as a runner.  Allen is compared to Cam Newton athletically for a reason. 

The difference is Allen is almost 240. It's like trying to tackle a a really big RB who is fast. I don't  think Darnold is so far behind him in mobility.  Allen just does it so much more. 

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16 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Anointing him to Canton?  Really, that is such a lame Straw Man statement.  If Sam Darnold had similar stats folks would be losing their minds.   No one anointing Allen anywhere other than recognizing he is performing a lot better than the 3rd pick of that draft that we gave up 3 2nd rounders for.  

He's done better through two weeks of the season. 

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53 minutes ago, SAR I said:

So did the Jets!

Stop with this "at that time" crap.  At the end of a season, a team is either a winning team or not, and the Buffalo Bills in their illustrious Josh Allen history have never beaten a winning team except for the perennial 9-7 non-Tannehill Titans.  Period.

Go beat the Patriots for the first time ever, go beat the Seahawks, go beat the Chiefs, then you can puff your chest.  Until then, you are what you always have been-  the Jets in blue uniforms.

SAR I


I find your argument completely illogical.

In response to people pointing out that Josh Allen has made huge strides and is trending in the direction of being an electrifying franchise quarterback, you state that the Bills haven't beat good opponents yet? What? What does that have to do with Allen's play? "QB wins" aren't a thing. FOOTBALL TEAMS win and lose games. Besides, if quality of opponent is so important, than your oft-cited 6-2 run to end last season -- the one that made you think the Jets would start this season 5-0 -- meant absolutely nothing.

Josh Allen improved in every single measurable passer statistic from year one to year two, and has done so again from year two to year three, albeit in a limited sample size so far. Completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, interceptions, passer rating...you name it, he's improved at it. Short passing, medium passing, deep passing -- all improved across the board. If you want to talk about quantifiable quarterback improvements, measured by things like the statistics I just mentioned, I'm here for it. If you want to talk about how Josh Allen is solely to blame for the Bills not beating many winning opponents last year, I'm not. It's a stupid argument.

As for your argument that he crumbles under pressure? He was tied last year with Russell Wilson for most 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives in the entire NFL. With 10 minutes left to play against Miami on Sunday, after the Dolphins had taken the lead, he proceeded to throw for 145 yards and two touchdowns and win the game for the Bills. Go take a look at his career 4th quarter performances vs his performance in the other 3 quarters. He also went into Heinz Field against a hot Pittsburgh team on Sunday night -- where the Steelers rarely lose -- and with a playoff spot on the line, threw the game winning touchdown pass. 

Your assessment that he "Crumbles under pressure" couldn't be more off-base. You wanna talk about the playoff game? How about Duke Williams dropping a perfect end zone pass? How about the Bills defense giving up a 3rd-and-18 to a checkdown pass? How about Deshaun Watson shaking off two blitzers on 3rd down in overtime and throwing the pass that sealed the game? How about the Bills defense giving up a 16-point lead in the final 20 minutes of the game? But sure, it was all on Josh Allen. He alone lost that game.

Lastly, if Sam Darnold had led the Jets to the playoffs last year and then started off this season by leading the NFL in passing yards and throwing 6 TDs and no INTs, you'd be ready to build a statue of him. 

The Bills may have been "the Jets in blue" for the past two decades, but thats over now. The Bills are now a competent and well-run organization with a good quarterback. The Jets, until further notice, are still the Jets.

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10 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

He didn't do too bad taking his team to the playoffs last season either.  

Let's try and be civilized people here.

Josh Allen and the Bills are playing well.  Let's see how the season goes, but I don't see the Jets beating them in NJ either.

When the Bills pay him $35mm/year and now have $30mm less to spend on other players, that is when things get interesting.

But for now, let's see how we do next year when Darnold is on year 4 of his rookie contract, and Allen is extended. 

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11 minutes ago, varjet said:

Let's try and be civilized people here.

Josh Allen and the Bills are playing well.  Let's see how the season goes, but I don't see the Jets beating them in NJ either.

When the Bills pay him $35mm/year and now have $30mm less to spend on other players, that is when things get interesting.

But for now, let's see how we do next year when Darnold is on year 4 of his rookie contract, and Allen is extended. 

What was uncivilized about my post?? 

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3 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:


Like most of what you say, this simply isn't true.

Last year the Bills beat the Cowboys -- who had a winning record at that time-- on national TV on Thanksgiving.

They also beat the Pittsburgh Steelers -- who had a winning record at that time -- on Sunday Night Football to clinch a playoff spot.

If your response is "well those teams didn't have a winning record at the end of the season", my response is "what does that have to do with the Bills?". You can only play who the schedule makers put in front of you.

It's funny how the narrative always changes about Josh Allen. Leading up to the Jets game, a lot of folks told me how Gregg Williams and the Jets improved defense were going to give him fits. They didn't, and afterwords suddenly everyone said "oh, it was just the Jets". Then, leading into the Dolphins game, most people said the cornerback trio of Byron Jones, Xavien Howard, and Noah Igbenoghene were going to shut down the Bills receivers. They didn't. Then afterwords everyone said "it was just the Dolphins". Last night, the Dolphins D looked pretty darned good...

Quit moving the goalposts. Quit living in denial. Josh Allen has improved leaps and bounds since he was drafted. He's still imperfect, but the arrow is pointing up. It's clear as day. The Bills front office surrounded him with a good offensive line, great receivers, and a creative play-caller. The Jets did none of those things for Darnold. I'm sorry that your guy hasn't turned out the way you want so far (personally, I blame it on the Jets, because Darnold is talented as hell), but to continue to live in denial that Josh Allen is turning into a good player makes you look silly.

Pleased for Allen, an awful lot of self-appointed ‘experts’ utterly dismissed him coming out of Wyoming and rather than admit they were dead wrong they go into ‘yeah but’” mode(see also: Jackson, Lamar)

it’s still only 2 games though  so let’s see if he can maintain this through 16 games and beyond, but no question the guy has already made a complete fool of so many of those ‘experts’

the Bills have done a good job of building a team and a roster with what appears to be good coaching and a smart GM. It’s not that long ago Buffalo was a basket case like the Jets are currently so there’s hope for us.

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Josh Allen and Josh Allen alone are the reason the Bills got humiliated in Houston last year.   He crumbles under pressure.  

Chiefs
Patriots
49ers
Seahawks
Steelers

Let's see Josh go 4-2 against those teams, then we can start saying how he's anything but a guy who can beat the scrubs and is terrible against teams that know how to win. 

SAR I

Hey my friend.  Just stopping through and came across this thread.  Gotta call you out on this one a bit.  Putting that playoff loss 100% on Josh's shoulders is a little silly.  If not for a horrible 'illegal block call" that even the announcers said was a terrible call, the Bills would have been in easy FG range in OT and would have probably put the game away.  Then on Houston's game winning drive, the Bills gave up a horrible 3rd and 17 and then had Watson sacked dead to rights later during the drive and gave up another huge first down.  Not to mention at the end of the first half Duke Williams drops a perfectly thrown pass from Josh Allen in the corner of the end zone that would have made the score 24-0 at halftime.  That loss was the very definition of a team loss.  Josh has learned from it and will continue to learn from his mistakes.  Not trying to be rude, but just wanted to set the record straight.  To put that loss 100% on Josh's shoulders is a pretty weak argument my friend.  I might also add Josh almost lead a huge comeback against the Ravens and was a few plays away from beating the Patriots on the road on National television.  All the kid has done since entering the league is to work on his flaws and get better each and every game.  His floor is high and his ceiling is SKY high.

Good luck the rest of the season.    I hope Bills vs Jets part II is a battle!!

John

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5 hours ago, SAR I said:

Let's see, the hype is about victories over the New York Jets and Miami Dolphins.  LOL.

Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills have yet to beat an NFL team with a winning record with the sole exception of the perennially 9-7 pre-Tannehill Tennessee Titans.

Chiefs
Patriots
49ers
Seahawks
Steelers

Wake me later in the season if the Bills beat one of them.  Until then, they're just another wannabe who can beat the scrubs and can't beat the elites.

SAR I

We’ve seen this bills movie many times before.  Fast out the gate then they pull up in the stretch.  Like you said they beat two teams that aren’t playing very well at the moment.  All it shows is that established teams have an early advantage in this covid crazy season.

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Guys don’t be tricked by this Charlatan.  This article has zero to do with Allen, or Darnold.  It’s just MM continuing his Adam Gase crusade taking shots at him and the Jets any way he can.

 

STOP CLICKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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5 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

So who did Manish steal his quotes from this time?

As you have delivered your post from your couch, so has Manish.Manish does not have a press pass, not to Florham Park nor the games.  May be he gives these hot takes form ...another room in his abode. In theory he could call his musings "One Guy's Take on the Jets from his Kohler Throne". Wash your hands!

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Darnold can run as well but I think our resident offensive genius is telling him to stay in the pocket and pass. 

Our resident offensive genius only had a good offense when he had Peyton Manning doing everything 

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1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

Guys don’t be tricked by this Charlatan.  This article has zero to do with Allen, or Darnold.  It’s just MM continuing his Adam Gase crusade taking shots at him and the Jets any way he can.

 

STOP CLICKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As much as Mehta lost his credibility being Mike Macagnan’s lawyer for 4 years he is right

 

and it’s not even Sam’s fault.  It’s malpractice what the Jets have done to him

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Our resident offensive genius only had a good offense when he had Peyton Manning doing everything 

That was always a pretty weak argument to hire Gase. He had great success with arguably the greatest QB who ever played and was mostly his own OC running his own offense he mostly built with Tom Moore. What exactly did Gase do? "Nice throw, Peyton! Can I get you some water or a towel?" 

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