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Trevor Talk


JetBlue

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is it tho?

What team in the NFL has tanked for a player and then won a Super Bowl with that tanked-for-player.

I'll wait.

Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning.  

The Panthers went to the SB with Cam Newton.

And so far things are working great for the Cardinals with Kyler Murray.

Also, the Rams traded down with Washington in 2012 (RG3).  THEN, armed with heavy draft capital over the previous 4 seasons, they were comfortable enough to move UP for Jared Goff in '16, and went to a Super Bowl with him at QB.

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10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We should not draft another QB for at least two years.  Use all resources to build the team then get the Qb if Darnod is not the one.

In 2 years we won't know what the QB class looks like, OR be able to be sure we'd be able to draft high enough to grab one we like best. 

QB's can certainly be taken outside of the top 5 picks and have success.  But they're pretty rare.  And it especially makes sense to try to take one as high as possible because of the 2010 CBA and the accompanying rookie pay scale.  Previously, teams had to dump a lot more money into top picks.  Now, a QB taken in the top 5 comes very cheap compared to what veteran starting QB's make.

It'd be nice to have a great roster first and THEN take your young franchise QB.  It just doesn't play out like that in reality.  Get a high pick, take your QB, and build around him simultaneously.  It's very rare to be able to do it in a different way than that.

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17 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Giants will win more games most likely but again this is the Jets.  A franchise who is known for snatching defeat out of the mouth of victory, so we probably can bank on a few meaningless wins in December to "salvage the season" and **** up our draft position.  

Not to mention it will give that moron CJ an excuse to keep Gase another 2 years at least...

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2 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Why would we win meaningless games in December if we can't win them now? Are you suggesting that injuries could be the reason why the Jets are off to a bad start? If so, why would you give up on the team?

It's because that's what the franchise does and has always done; win late season games that move us back several draft slots.  And in some situations that's because of what OTHER teams have going on late in the season.

Just look at last year.  We won in Weeks 16 and 17 primarily because the Steelers had Mason Rudolph/Devlin Hodges at QB by then, and then the Bills rested their starters.  We play the Patriots in Week 17 this season.  They could easily have a playoff spot locked up by then, and end up starting Jarrett Stidham to keep Cam healthy.  

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning.  

The Panthers went to the SB with Cam Newton.

And so far things are working great for the Cardinals with Kyler Murray.

Also, the Rams traded down with Washington in 2012 (RG3).  THEN, armed with heavy draft capital over the previous 4 seasons, they were comfortable enough to move UP for Jared Goff in '16, and went to a Super Bowl with him at QB.

None of those teams tanked.

Tanking in the NFL is pure fan fantasy.

But by all means, keep the most pathetic dream in sportsfandom alive, that if we just suck enough, if we can out-suck our suckiest rivals, then good things will happen.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

None of those teams tanked.

Tanking in the NFL is pure fan fantasy.

But by all means, keep the most pathetic dream in sportsfandom alive, that if we just suck enough, if we can out-suck our suckiest rivals, then good things will happen.

 

You already stated tanking doesn't happen, then asked me for examples of tanking working out, lol.  Fine, those teams ACCIDENTALLY tanked then, does that work for you?

I pointed out teams that ended up with the top pick and had it work out, like you asked.  If you want to say tanking doesn't happen, that's a separate argument.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's because that's what the franchise does and has always done; win late season games that move us back several draft slots.  And in some situations that's because of what OTHER teams have going on late in the season.

Just look at last year.  We won in Weeks 16 and 17 primarily because the Steelers had Mason Rudolph/Devlin Hodges at QB by then, and then the Bills rested their starters.  We play the Patriots in Week 17 this season.  They could easily have a playoff spot locked up by then, and end up starting Jarrett Stidham to keep Cam healthy.  

Oh so its magic, I get it. Do you even watch football? Big Ben missed virtually the entire season and were still battling for a playoff spot. 

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24 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Dude, I am seriously convinced we will have the worst record in the league. I mean based on what we have seen, who is worse?  I realize things can change but as of right now, what team do think will finish with a worse record?  

I mean I hope you're right.  I'm just saying that, historically, it doesn't work out like that for the Jets.  I'll believe we're going to pick # 1 when it happens.

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33 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

If we land #1 we take Trevor, and I still believe in Sam. You’d be stupid not to make that pick though.

I think the only real competition we’ll face is from NYG. We look like the only 2-win teams in football. The others all look capable of 3+ wins.

 

Its like the 70's all over again. And if it is, we can expect to be back in the playoffs in 2031

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I remember when we talked about this last year, and a couple of us had the audacity to suggest that IF Joe Douglas got a phone call about Sam Darnold, why wouldn't you listen?  You would hit the refresh on the rookie QB contract, surround him with talent, and move forward.  And the few who suggested this were HEAVILY criticized for such nonsense  

Good times.

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16 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Why wouldn’t Cincy want Trevor if they lose more games than us?

 

Burrow has a better roster and coach than Sam.   He should be able to win more games or he’s a bust too. 
 

 

edit- Isn’t he also older? 

 

You don't take a QB # 1 overall and then give up on him after a year.  Burrow was tremendous in college so its not like Lawrence/Fields would be a vastly better prospect.

In any case, I would assume the only way the Bengals pick 1st is if Burrow gets hurt.  He alone looks good enough to hand Cincy a few wins.

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34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No NFL team tanks.  We will win meaningless games late.

I agree. And I have to admit, as a 50 year Jet fan, it always feels good when (if?) we win a game. Until that win leads to a team with one less win taking the guy we wanted in the following draft (e.g., Nick Bosa).

Seems to happen every year...

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34 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

On September 25th no less.

Have you watched them play this year? It doesn't take a genius to see that this team is terrible.  The only hope for this team was a massive progression by Darnold and that doesn't seem to be happening. I'm 100% sure people would rather be talking about how great Darnold and the team look rather then getting the #1 pick but it is what it is. 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean I hope you're right.  I'm just saying that, historically, it doesn't work out like that for the Jets.  I'll believe we're going to pick # 1 when it happens.

We get to pick #1 and I get to do things on Sundays that actually have meaning because to be honest I stopped watching the Bills game in the 3rd quarter and I stopped watching the San Fran game at the half. I didn't even do that in the Kotite years because at least that team competed and had some good young players.

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2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I remember when we talked about this last year, and a couple of us had the audacity to suggest that IF Joe Douglas got a phone call about Sam Darnold, why wouldn't you listen?  You would hit the refresh on the rookie QB contract, surround him with talent, and move forward.  And the few who suggested this were HEAVILY criticized for such nonsense  

Good times.

Well that's bc last year in the final 8 games he played like a top 10 QB. This year not so much. 

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8 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Why would we win meaningless games in December if we can't win them now? Are you suggesting that injuries could be the reason why the Jets are off to a bad start? If so, why would you give up on the team?

I don't understand fans that root for the team to lose.  All I know is that our week feels a little better when the Jets win.  I hate to see them lose.  Really stinks that we can't see them in person this year.  First time in a long time that I've missed a game.

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37 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

If we land #1 we take Trevor, and I still believe in Sam. You’d be stupid not to make that pick though.

I think the only real competition we’ll face is from NYG. We look like the only 2-win teams in football. The others all look capable of 3+ wins.

 

People keep saying this but the Giants were competitive for most of the game against the Steelers and came down to the last play against the Bears.

The Jets have been totally non-competitive, albeit against what we think is better competition. Giants are bad, but they're run of the mill 4-12 bad. I think we're worse than that.

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1 minute ago, Ira From Staten Island said:

I don't understand fans that root for the team to lose.  All I know is that our week feels a little better when the Jets win.  I hate to see them lose.  Really stinks that we can't see them in person this year.  First time in a long time that I've missed a game.

Welcome to the hell hole known as Jet Nation. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You don't take a QB # 1 overall and then give up on him after a year.  Burrow was tremendous in college so its not like Lawrence/Fields would be a vastly better prospect.

In any case, I would assume the only way the Bengals pick 1st is if Burrow gets hurt.  He alone looks good enough to hand Cincy a few wins.

If the Jets have the number 1 pick and take Fields I'm walking away from this team forever

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Just now, nico002 said:

Welcome to the hell hole known as Jet Nation. 

Won't name names to protect the guilty but last year there was a post that it was actually a good thing that Darnold was having such a terrible year because it meant his extension would be cheaper.

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3 minutes ago, Ira From Staten Island said:

I don't understand fans that root for the team to lose.  All I know is that our week feels a little better when the Jets win.  I hate to see them lose.  Really stinks that we can't see them in person this year.  First time in a long time that I've missed a game.

It's desperation. 

A trapped rat will knaw off it's own leg to escape. 

Equally, some desperate Jets Fans will root for their own team to lose in the desperate hope that doing so will lead to better things in the future.

It's sad, it's futile, and it's a horrible position for a fan to be in (why bother if thats the case tbqh), but it's understandable. 

A decade of futile failure can do that to a man.

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

People keep saying this but the Giants were competitive for most of the game against the Steelers and came down to the last play against the Bears.

The Jets have been totally non-competitive, albeit against what we think is better competition. Giants are bad, but they're run of the mill 4-12 bad. I think we're worse than that.

This is not an indorsement for Gase but is this team was not dealing with an Insane rash of injuries and Moseley didn't opt out I think we would have been much more competitive. That being said it might not have mattered  since Darnold probably would have still sucked

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35 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Zero chance the Jets are picking #1. Haven't we gone through this before? We're not going to be in a position to land either QB unless they fall. After the first 2 games, the Jets will pick somewhere in the back half of the top 10

And what’s your reasoning beyond homerism?

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5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

This is not an indorsement for Gase but is this team was not dealing with an Insane rash of injuries and Moseley didn't opt out I think we would have been much more competitive. That being said it might not have mattered  since Darnold probably would have still sucked

Yes Darnold should have thrown and caught that TD to herndon. He should of also made the tackles on the first play of the game and the 3rd and 31. 

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28 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Hi Trevor welcome to the NY jets and let me introduce you o your new coach adam gase and your too two receivers chris hogan and braxton berrios.

If the Jets ended up with #1 overall I still would not take lawrence but would try and trade for a bounty of picks.

Unlike most on here I simply do not view lawrence as a can't miss prospect.

We must build the team first then get the QB.

I agree , while the ACC is a power 5 conference , Lawrence hasn't played a killer schedule as starter. While he's not the reason LSU won the title game last year he certainly didn't flourish against an NFL stacked roster.  I'm a little leery about him being touted the next great one. 

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5 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Oh so its magic, I get it. Do you even watch football? Big Ben missed virtually the entire season and were still battling for a playoff spot. 

Maybe it is magic, lol.  You can't deny it always happens for this franchise:

  • In 2005, the Herm-led Jets won 2 of its final 4 games to finish 4-12, falling back a couple slots in the 2006 draft as a result.  Luckily, we made the right pick in 2006, taking Brick # 4 overall.
  • In 2007, the Jets beat the Chiefs in OT in the final game of the season to improve to finish 4-12.  This caused us to fall from # 3 to # 6 in the 2008 draft.  We ended up missing out on Matt Ryan and took Vernon Gholston.
  • In 2013, the Jets won 3 of their final 4 games to finish 8-8.  We could have picked as high as 6th in that class if we hadn't.  With pick 18 in 2014, we took Calvin Pryor.  We missed out on the likes of Aaron Donald, Jake Matthews, Mike Evans, Taylor Lewan, Zack Martin, Odell Beckham, C.J. Mosley and Anthony Barr.  
  • In 2014, we won 2 of our final 3 games to finish 4-12.  We missed out on Amari Cooper as a result, taking Leonard Williams # 6 overall in 2015.
  • In 2016, we won 2 of our final 4 games to finish 5-11 and pick 6th.  While we of course should have taken a QB regardless of where we finished, this was still a situation where we could have had more command of the board.
  • In 2018, we did lose all of our games in December, but 1 more loss on the season would have gotten us Nick Bosa.  
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16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You already stated tanking doesn't happen, then asked me for examples of tanking working out, lol.  Fine, those teams ACCIDENTALLY tanked then, does that work for you?

I pointed out teams that ended up with the top pick and had it work out, like you asked.  If you want to say tanking doesn't happen, that's a separate argument.

I've always understood that the word tanking implies intentional losses. I think you're wrong here, unfortunately.

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48 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Who are the teams that will compete for Trevor? I see seven teams including us as favorites for the number one pick. Washington,  Jacksonville, New York giants,  Denver Broncos, Cincinnati Bengals, New York Jets. Look into your crystal ball and figure out who is the favorite and why: strength of schedule, roster, teams overall potential, coaching,  etc. it’s gonna be a shootout. And what do we do if we land it he #1 pick ? 

Washington has played well in their games so far and they play in the weakest division in football. I see them as a minimum 4 or 5 win team which is likely too much for the #1 pick. Giants are pretty bad, they will compete but again play in a terrible division. Broncos play in a strong division and have had some bad injuries so they could compete. Cincinatti is not moving away from Burrow so if they do get #1 they will likely trade down a spot of 2. Right now I would say it is a race between both NY teams looking at level of play through 2 weeks. But we will get much healthier at WR over the next 3 weeks and I still think our roster is better than last year. I see us landing at worst around the 6th pick again. Sam was much better last week but no one really noticed. 3rd down drops and penalties are making the offense seem worse than they are.

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9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

People keep saying this but the Giants were competitive for most of the game against the Steelers and came down to the last play against the Bears.

The Jets have been totally non-competitive, albeit against what we think is better competition. Giants are bad, but they're run of the mill 4-12 bad. I think we're worse than that.

Giants just lost their best playmaker on O - Barkley,  and are w/o Shepard this next game let's see how that effects them . 

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