Trevor Talk

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No.

Being a bad team =/= tanking

So what were you looking for, exactly, when you asked me for an example of something you stated doesn't exist?  

My argument is if teams aren't tanking, they SHOULD.  Peyton Manning, Cam Newton, and Kyler Murray were 3 examples of that where a bad team picked 1st and immediately turned their franchise around.  I'd also throw Andrew Luck into the equation too, even if his career was short-lived.

Tell me what you're looking for if that still isn't enough of an argument for you.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, GodDamnSnack said:

I've always understood that the word tanking implies intentional losses. I think you're wrong here, unfortunately.

Yes, and I'm saying if teams haven't been tanking, they should.  There's nothing worse than having a terrible season but still picking 6th.  

[viffer]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's desperation. 

A trapped rat will knaw off it's own leg to escape. 

Equally, some desperate Jets Fans will root for their own team to lose in the desperate hope that doing so will lead to better things in the future.

It's sad, it's futile, and it's a horrible position for a fan to be in (why bother if thats the case tbqh), but it's understandable. 

A decade of futile failure can do that to a man.

A decade? How about 5 decades!!!

[JetBlue]

18 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I remember when we talked about this last year, and a couple of us had the audacity to suggest that IF Joe Douglas got a phone call about Sam Darnold, why wouldn't you listen?  You would hit the refresh on the rookie QB contract, surround him with talent, and move forward.  And the few who suggested this were HEAVILY criticized for such nonsense  

Good times.

Hey man times change.  No one thought this team would look THIS bad or Sam would play this poorly.  

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

37 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Hi Trevor welcome to the NY jets and let me introduce you o your new coach adam gase and your too two receivers chris hogan and braxton berrios.

If the Jets ended up with #1 overall I still would not take lawrence but would try and trade for a bounty of picks.

Unlike most on here I simply do not view lawrence as a can't miss prospect.

We must build the team first then get the QB.

It's not that Trevor Lawrence is a can't miss prospect. It's that Sam Darnold is an already has missed prospect.

We must get the QB then get the QB and continue to get the QB until we have the QB and build the team with whatever time is left over 

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, Ira From Staten Island said:

I don't understand fans that root for the team to lose.  All I know is that our week feels a little better when the Jets win.  I hate to see them lose.  Really stinks that we can't see them in person this year.  First time in a long time that I've missed a game.

Know what would feel a lot better than those meaningless wins?  Having perhaps been in position to, and actually taken, Matt Ryan instead of Vernon Gholston, or Aaron Donald/Taylor Lewan/Odell Beckham/Mike Evans instead of Calvin Pryor, or Amari Cooper instead of Leonard Williams, or Nick Bosa instead of Quinnen Williams.

Not that we would have necessarily taken any of those guys had we been in position to do so, but the possibility at least existed.  Or, at the very least, we could have been in great position to trade down to a QB-needy team.

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Well that's bc last year in the final 8 games he played like a top 10 QB. This year not so much. 

No he did not.

[More Cowbell]

54 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Lets face it guys, even when we get everyone back this team will still have a hard time winning against this schedule and with this HC.   The last thing I want to see is us winning some meaningless games in December and as a result lose out on drafting Lawrence or whom ever emerges (ala Joe Burrow) as the sure fire best quarterback in the country.  I am hard pressed to believe there is anyone better than Lawrence at this point.   The way the league is going, the Jets will be going up against Mahomes, Murray, Jackson, Allen, Wilson, Wentz, Newton, Mayfield, Watson etc.  Jury is out on Tua, Burrow and Herbert but so far Burrow and Herbert look promising.  

Of course the first order of business will be to fire Gase and get a true Quarterback Whsiperer/Offensive minded Coach in here, perhaps from the college ranks, with proven results. 

I know it is not impossible for Darnold to turn things around but if we have a chance to "upgrade" to Lawrence, that should be the overriding objective.   I realize this is crazy premature but I am so sick and tired of watching other teams acquire their FQBs and we keep picking duds.   I'm saying this and at the same time really have (or had?) high hopes for Darnold, but he seems to be regressing and incapable of raising the level of play around him and continues to make poor decisions with the ball.   Sure the lack of healthy receivers have hurt but it can't all be put on that.  Not when you are missing wide open recievers or making poor reads.   I had made thread several months ago that this was going to be Darnolds year, and it isn't too late for him to turn it around, but so far he has been a major disappointment.  Lets hope our GM will not make the mistake of past regimes and avoid taking a QB only because we have one that was taken 3rd just a few years ago.  Fortunately, JD wasn't the one who drafted him so he owes him no allegiance.   It will all be about what transpires on the field.   

I think the worst thing that can happen to Lawrence is to be drafted by the Jets. 

I can guarantee you if the Jets end up with Lawrence, Gace is gone but that still does not address  the elephant in the room. The team has no offensive talent. And don't  tell me JD is going to go out and sign (insert expensive stud WR here). He is rebuilding this team through the draft. I think when he sees there is a solid group  of young players, he will go out and sign a vet or two but that isn't  happening next season. Lawrence will be as bad as Sam and there is no guarantee  we don't  go out and sign Bienemy who I think is a disaster waiting  to happen. Reed creates and runs that O, Eric holds a clip board. Do you even see Bienemy talking to Mahomes, because the only one I have seen doing that is Reed.

Stick with Darnold and get him some players and get some CB's and pass rushers. That is what we need, not to watch Lawrence suck for 2 or 3 seasons. 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, and I'm saying if teams haven't been tanking, they should.  There's nothing worse than having a terrible season but still picking 6th.  

nothing like sucking and then getting leonard williams as your prize.

[slimjasi]

Suck for Luck, Suck for Sam, Tank for Trevor and on and on we go . . . 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Giants just lost their best playmaker on O - Barkley,  and are w/o Shepard this next game let's see how that effects them . 

They were shutout in the first half, only scored when Barkley was gone.

Honestly, I've always felt like the Giants had no idea how to use him. I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't miss him that much given their run blocking is atrocious.

[Smashmouth]

9 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Yes Darnold should have thrown and caught that TD to herndon. He should of also made the tackles on the first play of the game and the 3rd and 31. 

what the hell are you talking about ? This is not about one game its about three years and the lack of progress in any aspect of the position. And if you want to evaluate a QB playing defense or making the occasional great play you go right ahead maybe CJ Mosely can play QB and step into his throws and not throw across his body to the middle of the field to a double teamed WR. I would be willing to bet if you want to compare individual plays there's plenty more crap to evaluate than greatness

[More Cowbell]

49 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If they don't, then they should.  NBA teams do and everyone knows they do, so its not like its this conspiracy theory to suggest a pro team purposely puts its team in a position to lose.  It's a viable strategy, sadly.

And of course that would need to be front office-driven.  No coaching staff or player purposely tries to lose.  Those decisions have to come from higher up.

Firing a coach midseason is the easiest way to tank.  Then, the GM can direct the interim coach to play the young guys.  

Actually tanking doesn't  work in the NBA either or the Knicks would have drafted Zion. 

[Bungaman]

53 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Why does a dog lick his balls?

Because he can.

Also because he can't make a fist with his paw.

[Smashmouth]

24 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Have you watched them play this year? It doesn't take a genius to see that this team is terrible.  The only hope for this team was a massive progression by Darnold and that doesn't seem to be happening. I'm 100% sure people would rather be talking about how great Darnold and the team look rather then getting the #1 pick but it is what it is. 

In the last 10 years the only time this teams offense has been somewhat viable was when Fitz played. How much worse can it get than that ?

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

They were shutout in the first half, only scored when Barkley was gone.

Honestly, I've always felt like the Giants had no idea how to use him. I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't miss him that much given their run blocking is atrocious.

When your down 17 in the 2nd half you have to throw, let's see their early game plan w/o some of their better weapons. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

Well that's bc last year in the final 8 games he played like a top 10 QB. This year not so much. 

 

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No he did not.

 

Over the last 8 games last season, Darnold's numbers looked like this:

• 243 yards per game
• 13 TDs
• 1.5 % INT % (INTs per attempt)
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt

Extrapolated to a full season, this would have been his league rankings:

• 243 yards per game:  18th
• 26 TDs:  t-8th (with 5 other QBs)
• 1.5 % INT %:  t-10th
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt:  t-15th

At his best, Darnold is about average.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Over the last 8 games last season, Darnold's numbers looked like this:

• 243 yards per game
• 13 TDs
• 3 % INT % (INTs per attempt)
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt

Extrapolated to a full season, this would have been his league rankings:

• 243 yards per game:  18th
• 26 TDs:  t-8th (with 5 other QBs)
• 3 % INT %:  28th
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt:  t-15th

At his best, Darnold is about average or below average.

Stats w/o context are simply numbers. Without knowing each game situation those numbers are meaningless. 

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Actually tanking doesn't  work in the NBA either or the Knicks would have drafted Zion. 

There's no lottery system in the NFL.  Hence why it makes even MORE sense to tank in the NFL than it does the NBA.

Meanwhile, for every Zion, there's been quite a few instances in the NBA where a team with a top-3 worst record picked 1st, AND their pick worked out:

• 2016 / 76ers:  Ben Simmons
• 2015 / Timberwolves:  Karl-Anthony Towns
• 2012 / Hornets:  Anthony Davis
• 2004 / Magic:  Dwight Howard
• 2003 / Cavaliers:  LeBron James
• 1997 / Spurs:  Tim Duncan
• 1996 / 76ers:  Allen Iverson
• 1992 / Magic:  Shaq
• 1985 / Knicks:  Patrick Ewing

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

When your down 17 in the 2nd half you have to throw, let's see their early game plan w/o some of their better weapons. 

True, it's possible they are completely incompetent.

[Wonderboy]

19 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Washington has played well in their games so far and they play in the weakest division in football. I see them as a minimum 4 or 5 win team which is likely too much for the #1 pick. Giants are pretty bad, they will compete but again play in a terrible division. Broncos play in a strong division and have had some bad injuries so they could compete. Cincinatti is not moving away from Burrow so if they do get #1 they will likely trade down a spot of 2. Right now I would say it is a race between both NY teams looking at level of play through 2 weeks. But we will get much healthier at WR over the next 3 weeks and I still think our roster is better than last year. I see us landing at worst around the 6th pick again. Sam was much better last week but no one really noticed. 3rd down drops and penalties are making the offense seem worse than they are.

Our offense isn’t as bad as it has looked. It’s going to get decisively better in the next few weeks. Crowder Mims Bell Smith will all be back. Herndon and Griffin will catch up and play back into form.  But our defense is just atrocious Which would negate any advances our offense makes. And let’s not forget sandwich six and two and his last eight last year so he’s bound to play better than he has in the first two games. Factory in our schedule which is brutal I can still see us winning 3 to 4 games. But I can see the other teams also winning 3 to 4 games so it’s going to be a crapshoot for Trevor
 

[AFJF]

Personnel has little to nothing to do with this.  It has been a staple of his offense for the past 5 yrs.  Saw an article after the hire that showed Gase offense throws short of the sticks with great regularity and discussed it with @SouthernJet

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

Zero chance the Jets are picking #1. Haven't we gone through this before? We're not going to be in a position to land either QB unless they fall. After the first 2 games, the Jets will pick somewhere in the back half of the top 10

In the past, I'd always agree.  But, this team, and this schedule, I'm not sure where you find the wins.  Prior teams had ways they could steal a game.  Right now, we appear to have Mekhi Becton, and as crucial a piece as he is, LT's don't steal games the way, lets say, a great kick returner can.  I'm not sure there's a single thing about this team that makes you believe it can win more than 1-2 games.  At least a team like the Dolphins has a veteran QB who knows what he's doing out there.  We've got nothing.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Personnel has little to nothing to do with this.  It has been a staple of his offense for the past 5 yrs.  Saw an article after the hire that showed Gase offense throws short of the sticks with great regularity and discussed it with @SouthernJet

Lots of teams do that , Saints , Steelers, Pats , Chargers. It only looks bad when you don't convert 3rd downs. 

[Wonderboy]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Over the last 8 games last season, Darnold's numbers looked like this:

• 243 yards per game
• 13 TDs
• 3 % INT % (INTs per attempt)
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt

Extrapolated to a full season, this would have been his league rankings:

• 243 yards per game:  18th
• 26 TDs:  t-8th (with 5 other QBs)
• 3 % INT %:  28th
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt:  t-15th

At his best, Darnold is about average or below average.

Cmon stop injecting these Trumpian statistics in your hypothetical analysis. The first half and Sam’s 2nd half are a tale of 2 cities. You cannot combine them both to get a complete picture.  

[jgb]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No he did not.

Top 10 JUCO QB.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Wonderboy said:

Cmon stop injecting these Trumpian statistics in your hypothetical analysis. The first half and Sam’s 2nd half are a tale of 2 cities. You cannot combine them both to get a complete picture.  

So then you agree he's too inconsistent to be a FQB. Cool.

[JetFreak89]

29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's desperation. 

A trapped rat will knaw off it's own leg to escape. 

Equally, some desperate Jets Fans will root for their own team to lose in the desperate hope that doing so will lead to better things in the future.

It's sad, it's futile, and it's a horrible position for a fan to be in (why bother if thats the case tbqh), but it's understandable. 

A decade of futile failure can do that to a man.

It's not desperation though, it's sacrificing short-term happiness for long-term gain. There is a direct correlation between final record and draft standings, it's not as if it is a secret formula. Late season wins are only helpful if you are developing young talent at key positions. Other than that, their just hurting your chances for next year. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Cmon stop injecting these Trumpian statistics in your hypothetical analysis. The first half and Sam’s 2nd half are a tale of 2 cities. You cannot combine them both to get a complete picture.  

Umm....what?  The 2nd half of the season is what was supposed to make Darnold look GOOD.  lol.  That's when he was playing "well" against weak competition, and was fully recovered from Mono. 

The 2nd half of last season is what people point to to say "See, Darnold can be elite!".  I extrapolated his best numbers into a full season.

I just showed that even when he was playing well last season, he was still average or below average compared to the rest of the league's QB's over a full season's slate of games.

[ZachEY]

40 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

If the Jets have the number 1 pick and take Fields I'm walking away from this team forever

I think we ought to let this NCAA season happen before making such a proclamation.

[ZachEY]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Over the last 8 games last season, Darnold's numbers looked like this:

• 243 yards per game
• 13 TDs
• 3 % INT % (INTs per attempt)
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt

Extrapolated to a full season, this would have been his league rankings:

• 243 yards per game:  18th
• 26 TDs:  t-8th (with 5 other QBs)
• 3 % INT %:  28th
• 7.3 Yards per Attempt:  t-15th

At his best, Darnold is about average or below average.

And this is against 5 of the bottom 6 defenses.

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's no lottery system in the NFL.  Hence why it makes even MORE sense to tank in the NFL than it does the NBA.

Meanwhile, for every Zion, there's been quite a few instances in the NBA where a team with a top-3 worst record picked 1st, AND their pick worked out:

• 2016 / 76ers:  Ben Simmons
• 2015 / Timberwolves:  Karl-Anthony Towns
• 2012 / Hornets:  Anthony Davis
• 2004 / Magic:  Dwight Howard
• 2003 / Cavaliers:  LeBron James
• 1997 / Spurs:  Tim Duncan
• 1996 / 76ers:  Allen Iverson
• 1992 / Magic:  Shaq
• 1985 / Knicks:  Patrick Ewing

The rules were changed in 2018. The teams with the top 3 worst records all have an equal chance to select 1st. There is no guarantee  having the worst record gets you the first pick. Even when the Knicks got Ewing, everyone in NY was shocked. 

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Stats w/o context are simply numbers. Without knowing each game situation those numbers are meaningless. 

Is, 5 games against bottom 6 defenses, "context" or no?

[Wonderboy]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Umm....what?  The 2nd half of the season is what was supposed to make Darnold look GOOD.  lol.  That's when he was playing "well" against weak competition, and was fully recovered from Mono. 

The 2nd half of last season is what people point to to say "See, Darnold can be elite!".  I extrapolated his best numbers into a full season.

I just showed that even when he was playing well last season, he was still average or below average compared to the rest of the league's QB's over a full season's slate of games.

Ok clarified. BUT 

you still have to take into account the poor talent around Sam the lousy oline the lousy running game and Gase. Even Aaron Rodgers sucked over the last few years due to lack of talent around him. I can see taking Trevor if he falls into our lap over Sam but if he doesn’t, stick with Sam and build around him. 

[BROOKLYN JET]

Cousins and the Vikings are the biggest threat right now.

#Macc