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freestater

A good portion of the o-line moves Douglas has made, have been awful.

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43 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

His wide receivers have arguably been worse, and the corners he has brought it have been abject disasters. But let's not even talk about the fact that his entire draft class is now on IR. Aside from that hes been great

Honestly, this is the bigger concern to me. Overall the offensive line is better than last year across the board -- he wasn't going to fix it in one off-season.

The fact that basically every move he's made at WR or CB hasn't worked out is more troubling.

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If Becton is seriously hurt, JD is off to a bad start. 

I still need to see some of his other draft picks get on the field. Mims, Davis, and Zuniga are critical. 

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10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

That doesn't matter apparently.  It doesn't matter that the cupboard at offensive line was so bare that they had to go out and sign 4 new offensive lineman in FA and also draft 2. 4 new starters in total. 

It doesn't matter that there was no preseason games for these guys to gel. They're just supposed to go out there and become the best offensive line in the NFL like it's Madden. Some people have no clue

If this is all true - then how can we possible blame Adam Gase for the the offensive problems?

 

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38 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Aside from the Jamal Adams trade that netted the Jets a couple bottom of the 1st rd picks, and the verdict on that trade is at least two drafts away, Joe Douglas ain't done much. He actually made us worse so far. I realize he deserves a lot more time, however, it's getting late early for Joe D.

I think this is such a poor overreaction. The guy’s had one draft (we are 3 games in) and one true free agency period. He realized our roster was trash bc of precious regimes inability to obtain any talent so he didn’t throw money around like a drunken sailor. That’s a good thing.

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If Becton is seriously hurt, JD is off to a bad start. 

I still need to see some of his other draft picks get on the field. Mims, Davis, and Zuniga are critical. 

GM's shouldn't be criticized for player's with no injury history getting hurt. They aren't gods. 

People are overreacting and thinking there were 10 All-Pro O-linemen out there to be had when he took over after the draft and FA was already completed two years ago. I can see people wanting him to go after more expensive linemen last year in FA but I have a feeling he knew that this wasn't the year to be spending big and by the looks of it he is correct. Our Defense would look just as poor even with a different RT. 

Love the revisionist history as if Becton was the no-brainer pick at the time with Wirfs, Jeudy and Lamb still on the board too. Macc would have 100% taken Wirfs. 

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I must have missed where there were 10 Anthony Munoz's available in FA/Draft.

 

The guy he did pick(Becton) looks like a beast 2 games into his career.

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2 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

GM's shouldn't be criticized for player's with no injury history getting hurt. They aren't gods. 

I don't disagree and it sucks but injuries are part of the equation. If Becton is done for the year, it will hurt everyone's stock, regardless of whose fault it is. 

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We are far and away the worst team in the NFL and Douglas has made numerous blunders.  All the Macc haters got their wish tho so I guess its all good.

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8 minutes ago, KINGDIRK said:

I think this is such a poor overreaction. The guy’s had one draft (we are 3 games in) and one true free agency period. He realized our roster was trash bc of precious regimes inability to obtain any talent so he didn’t throw money around like a drunken sailor. That’s a good thing.

Still need to execute on the draft or it doesn’t matter. 

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1 hour ago, freestater said:

And its worrisome. Kalil was objectively bad. McGovern (who was supposed to be a solid fa, sure) has looked overwhelmed. GVR is definitely not the answer. Becton looks great, yes and Fant mostly serviceable. Letting Harrison go also concerns me, good guy to have for depth even if its best he's not a starter. They seemed hell-bent on getting rid of a guy who was the least of our problems last year. Some of Joe Douglas' moves have not panned out. 

He needed an OC before they let him take his jacket off last year and he rushed in Kalil which made sense to everyone on paper. Given the turn key situ I gave him a pass. GVR looks like he sucks so I’ll check the neg box on that one. Everything else looks solid and Becton looks tremendous. 

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The main problem I see with JD is most of our fan base wanted or thinks everything to be immensely upgraded essentially over night.

People complain about McGovern and Van Roten individually while apparently ignoring the OL has played much better this year than last.  While installing 4(yes 4) new players.  Do people not realize how incredibly hard that is?  He improved an entire unit in one off-season.

Most of the complaints I see about Douglas come across as people upset he didn't build a playoff contender this year.  Was that his goal?  Should he have sold out all resources to be better this year and ignore the fact the entire roster needed overhauled long term? 

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1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The main problem I see with JD is most of our fan base wanted or thinks everything to be immensely upgraded essentially over night.

People complain about McGovern and Van Roten individually while apparently ignoring the OL has played much better this year than last.  While installing 4(yes 4) new players.  Do people not realize how incredibly hard that is?  He improved an entire unit in one off-season.

Most of the complaints I see about Douglas come across as people upset he didn't build a playoff contender this year.  Was that his goal?  Should he have sold out all resources to be better this year and ignore the fact the entire roster needed overhauled long term? 

Douglas has been hurt by the fact that all of his draft picks are currently banged up. We've got to get these guys on the field, pronto. 

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I think he tried.  At the time money was unlimited. 

We can argue that Winters, Shell and Beachum could be playing better now than what the Jets have.   Shell could end up making a lot of money in a back ended deal.  Jets and Shell likely wanted a change,and the time to keep Shell was on an extension pre-season end.  

Winters is playing cheap for Buffalo, but likely would not take the same for the Jets.  He also likely wanted a change.  Same for Beachum.

Everyone thought that McGovern would be an upgrade.  I think he gets better if he is healthy.

Cam Clark was supposed to be an upgrade.   Hurt, again.  you should be able to draft a right guard.  GVR was a big reach.  Supposed to be a backup. 

My guess is that some of this is players not wanting to play for Gase.

Good news is that the Jets did bid for Thuney, which forced the Patriots to Tag him.

WR and RB to me was a much bigger bungle. 

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Becton aside, nothing has really panned out yet. Glass half full, his draft was great on paper and just hit a bad run of injury luck, and the pro personnel moves were all short-term fixes to get us to 53 guys. Glass half empty, he drafted a bunch of tub clubbers and signed a bunch of duds and has no idea what he’s doing. I really liked the draft, so I’m more in the former camp, but he has a lot to prove this offseason.

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27 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If this is all true - then how can we possible blame Adam Gase for the the offensive problems?

 

Adam Gase was responsible for Sam Darnolds progression.  He's obviously failed at that.  The ineptitude of the offense starts and ends at the QB position

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25 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Still need to execute on the draft or it doesn’t matter. 

I completely agree. But seems crazy illogical (even for us Jets fans) to make snap judgements on JDs first draft since we’re only 3 games in?

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1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

For those of you who like PFF like I do:

McGovern has been awful.

GVR was solid against Buffalo and Indy while being awful against San Fran

Fant has been below average.

Becton has been excellent

Edoga played well against Indy

Lewis was great the first two weeks and bad yesterday against Indy.

McDermott was terrible filling in for Becton against Indy.

I was shocked by Edoga, but rewatching a few plays today I think I was harsh on him. He was badly beaten twice in pass blocking but he seemed surprisingly good in the run game.

If we had a better back instead of Gore yesterday we probably would have popped off some big runs.

McGovern is hugely concerning. He was supposed to be the most solid of them all and he's been trash. Seems lost like Kalil was last season, picking up the wrong guys and then getting beaten too easily. I guess good centres rarely go to FA. Definitely a position to look at in the next draft if he doesn't get his sh*t together. 

It still looks a pretty badly coached unit on the whole. Darnold doesn't seem to be helping either. We're awful before the snap.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

More than some, so far.

O-Line FA = C- trending D
WR FA = F

I’d argue Hogan and Berrios have been good pickups.  Perriman is bad tho.  Berrios has been productive and pff has him slightly above average.  Hogan gets open despite being a WR4 going against CB1.  He had a good game in week2.

The Oline is work in progress but yea, Fant/MCG/GVR have been below average.  On the other hand it’s far from the turnstyle that it was last year.

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I think the offensive line got a lot better. It's not just last year's five and this year's five. When Kalil turns out to be a disaster, making a move to replace him puts out one fire. Now, that moves McGovern to RG, where he's better than he is at center and Van Roten has been bad. Van Roten pushes Lewis at LG. Lewis has continuity with last season and Becton and Baltimore going for him, but Van Roten is a better athlete and was probably at least as good on the left side with the Panthers as Lewis has been for us. Most likely GVR backs up both spots but if he gets the job that adds Lewis to the mix at RT. Or swing tackle, in the unlikely event that the leap from Edoga proves to be legit. All things considered I can accept this as the first year of a two-year project. 

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56 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I was shocked by Edoga, but rewatching a few plays today I think I was harsh on him. He was badly beaten twice in pass blocking but he seemed surprisingly good in the run game.

If we had a better back instead of Gore yesterday we probably would have popped off some big runs.

McGovern is hugely concerning. He was supposed to be the most solid of them all and he's been trash. Seems lost like Kalil was last season, picking up the wrong guys and then getting beaten too easily. I guess good centres rarely go to FA. Definitely a position to look at in the next draft if he doesn't get his sh*t together. 

It still looks a pretty badly coached unit on the whole. Darnold doesn't seem to be helping either. We're awful before the snap.

Yeah. Edoga got a very good run blocking grade by PFF. Even Damian Woody has pointed out that the Jets O-Line has gotten a good push in run blocking and has not been bad at protection. The line is definitely better. But coaching is definitely still an issue.

I'm shocked by McGovern. He's been brutal. It's only 3 games and it does sound like he's hurt but it's still concerning.

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I don't disagree, but it was always gonna be a patch work job this season replacing all the starters on an OL......

 

The key for Joe D was hitting on his Franchise LT with his 1st rd pick.....so far so good....OL will take 1-2 more years of fixing so be prepared. 

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I'm not totally turned off by Douglas, and he deserves at least 3 seasons before we cast total judgment.

 

But the early returns are not good, and since hes been in charge I feel like the teams reputation with players in the league has gone down.

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2 hours ago, rangerous said:

McGovern has been injured and this group hasn’t played much together. The blurb about the colts oline playing many games together is telling.  It takes time to build an oline.  Nobody expected the second coming of mankins with either van roten or Lewis. Losing Becton and Fant isn’t good.

Anybody have any glue?

 

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Alex Lewis has been pretty good. The left side of the line actually seems pretty solid. It's hard to rebuild an entire OL in one year, which is pretty much what this team needed. I thought they maybe should have drafted some more interior OL to develop while GVR holds down the fort, but maybe Cam Clarke ends up being that guy. They need to double or triple-dip on interior OL in the next draft.

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Becton was a massive hit, regardless of what you want to argue about Douglas.  Hopefully his injury is a relatively minor one.

Alex Lewis has been very solid.  McGovern has been a big disappointment, but nothing in his resume suggested he would be playing like this.  We'll see there.

Van Roten is very likely a bust.  Fant is meh.  The Kalil signing shouldn't even be a factor in this discussion.  That's a silly critique given how bad we were at the C position in the years prior to Douglas' arrival.  

In hindsight, it would have been good to bring in Graham Glasgow to handle RG duties.  He's relatively young and would have been worth the money.

As for RT?  Jack Conklin has been a massive bust in Cleveland, so that's a feather in JD's cap.  @FidelioJet

Overall he deserves a B or B+ for his OL fixes, with the Becton pick gaining him a huge boost.  What more could you anti-JD tools have really asked for?

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Joe Douglas gets a big fat "F" so far.  Worst roster in the NFL and at this point the Jets would be in the middle of the pack in the XFL, if that was still around.  

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

As for RT?  Jack Conklin has been a massive bust in Cleveland, so that's a feather in JD's cap.  @FidelioJet

 

WOW...you call me out on that? because he got injured.

But you haven't apologized for calling me a troll, or a bad fan and the constant attacks - for being correct with just about everything else.

I'm certainly not happy I was right but you coming at me because Jack Conklin got injured is just silly.  Anyone could get injured.

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4 hours ago, fullblast said:

Alex Lewis has been pretty good. The left side of the line actually seems pretty solid. It's hard to rebuild an entire OL in one year, which is pretty much what this team needed. I thought they maybe should have drafted some more interior OL to develop while GVR holds down the fort, but maybe Cam Clarke ends up being that guy. They need to double or triple-dip on interior OL in the next draft.

Good points. This teams issue stem mainly from the oline.  If it plays well then it’s far easier to see if the qb is the problem or the wrs. We know the wrs aren’t coming up big so the only issue is whether or not darnold is still the gut. IMO he is. There were far too many plays failing because the wrs don’t get open or drop the ball. Some interceptions are inexcusable but many are also caused by broken pass protection. In darnolds case he is forcing things too much.  Some of his throws last night were darn good.

i suspect Clark will be coming in pretty soon. He may even come in at left tackle if Becton can’t go.

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