Why the Jets will resign Darnold, and why they should!

[Pac]

7 minutes ago, Melly-Mel said:

Good post 

agreed.

[Jet hustle]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

This is just such a bad post, it's hard to know where to begin with it.

100

[Mogglez]

  Nope.

[JohnnyLV]

We control Sam for 4 more years. We do not need to make this decision next year. Or even the year after. If he develops in year 4 extend if not wait until year 5. If he improves enough then sign him. We don't need to handle this like Tannenbaum did.

[HawaiisOnlyJetsFan]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

We control Sam for 4 more years. We do not need to make this decision next year. Or even the year after. If he develops in year 4 extend if not wait until year 5. If he improves enough then sign him. We don't need to handle this like Tannenbaum did.

1 + 1 = 4? 

[Warcodered]

7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

The sooner people realize that Joe Douglas did what he did to put his own QB and Head Coach in place, the better off the collective thought process of this forum will be.  The saving of funds and the trading of players like Adams is the price we pay for firing Maccagnan too late.

In his first draft he took a risk and identified a great player at a premium position who has the ability and talent to be our LT for the next 10+ years.  In Maccagnan’s first draft he took Leonard Williams when we already had Wilkerson, Harrison, and Richardson.  The same unproductive  Leonard Williams Joe Douglas somehow flipped to Gettleman for a 3rd.

Pretty much, I mean I don't know how they keep/stay with him after this year. Odds are Gase is gone and they'll have a new HC who also won't want to be attached to him plus a very high(quite possibly the #1) pick in the draft. So the GM and HC who both weren't here when they drafted Darnold will be in a situation where they have Darnold who they can't be certain about going into year 4 of his rookie contract that is not a good plan.

[Warcodered]

_

Edited September 29, 2020 by Warcodered
double post.

[jgb]

37 minutes ago, HawaiisOnlyJetsFan said:

1 + 1 = 4? 

I think he means we can franchise him for like $40m a year. 
 

[Wonderboy]

13 hours ago, sciond said:

painfully we have to hold onto him for now.....We haven't drafted a decent QB since O'brien though, maybe Pennington 

Theres 3. Lawrence, Fields, Lance. And if JD has seen enough of Darnold and refuses to waste $25M on him, there’s the option of going with a vet or seeing what he has in Morgan. There are always options. 

[varjet]

Follow the money

a new rookie QB who can play is cheapest option

A better Darnold in year 4, 5 and Franchise is the next bet. Like Washington and Cousins

The analysis in Florham Park now is the trade off between firing Gase and needing a QB. 

[jgb]

10 hours ago, Pac said:

The Jets aren't releasing or trading Darnold.  That's stupid.  They do however need to move quickly.

Regardless of the outcome on Thursday they need to instantly relieve Gase of his duties, make GW the interim coach the remainder of the year, and elevate Bobcat Goldthwait to O-Coordinator.

It behooves JD to find out if Darnolds regression can be directly attributed to Gases' awful coaching, or he just plain sucks.  They'll have 12 games to figure that out.

I believe once Gase is gone and the troops start getting healthy, we'll see a MUCH better Darnold.  Cooter has experience with young and somewhat reckless gunslingers and can perhaps try and call an offense more suited to Sams strengths.

You don't give up on a 23 year old who has shown a lot of potential because he's being hamstrung by horrific coaching.  Luckily we have direct evidence of players who've escaped Gases' asylum and wind up thriving elsewhere.

If CJ allows Gase to coach the remainder of the year he will be exposed as the severely flawed leader he's accused of being, who also lied when he said he learned from not firing Macc earlier than he did. 

You mean before the end of the season, right?

 

[rangerous]

Maybe darnold isn’t going to be that super franchise qb, but consider with what he has to work with. The oline is still not pass or run blocking very well, and the top receivers are injured.  He is being very limited by the team around him.

with respect to the oline, it takes time playing together for an oline to be good. With respect to the wrs, they need to get on the field.  Get those things straightened out and the whole game for darnold becomes easier.

[jetlaw]

Listen fellow Jet fans you need to stop making excuses for Sam. Yes, Gase sucks. But, this isn’t the first year this has happened. This is the 4th year in a row he has struggled with turnovers. His last year at usc and 3 years here. This has happened under 3 different coaches. This is a large sample size now of failure. A new coach isn’t going to be able to waive a magic wand and fix this. Let’s face facts. Sam is a complete bust.


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[Pac]

55 minutes ago, jgb said:

You mean before the end of the season, right?

 

No..  i mean before end of 2021 season.

[CTJetsFan]

16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Correct.  I'm suggesting they'll pick a QB on April 29th and trade Darnold prior to the May 3rd deadline.  These things are always very possible.

In fact, if we end up with a top 2 or 3 pick, Douglas could start negotiating a trade like that in March, knowing we'd be taking a QB, only to make it official on April 30th.

Either way there's absolutely zero reason to exercise a 5th year option, especially not before May 3rd.

So, hypothetical scenario:

Th Jets don't end up with a top 5 pick (and hence don't draft Lawrence) and decide not to exercise Sam's 5th year option in May. Sam goes out and lights it up in 2021. Can they use the franchise tag on him for 2022?

[Warfish]

I am confident of two things:

1. Sam Darnold will get to play all of 2020 and all of 2021 before the Jets dump him.

2. The Jets will not get or draft Lawrence, and Lawrence would not accept being drafted by the Jets.

Argue about it all you like, we'll see what happens.  But I'm pretty confident in these two statements.

[playtowinthegame]

As the Jets head coach Gase can and will be blamed for a multitude of things that he's ultimately responsible for, but I will not blame him for Darnold not have the guts to stand in the pocket and throw a dart to his receiver right in the face of a pass rush. You either got it or you don't. Let's be real, Gase took the Jets job because he wanted to be a head coach again, not because he wanted to coach Darnold. This current arranged marriage has made us the new factory of sadness. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, CTJetsFan said:

So, hypothetical scenario:

Th Jets don't end up with a top 5 pick (and hence don't draft Lawrence) and decide not to exercise Sam's 5th year option in May. Sam goes out and lights it up in 2021. Can they use the franchise tag on him for 2022?

He's not going to "light it up" because he's not capable of that.  But in that extremely unlikely event, yes, you could franchise him.

However, there's a flaw to this thinking:  While I do think the top QB's will be taken in the first several picks of this draft, we do have two first rounders coming up.  Douglas may try to find the next Lamar Jackson/Aaron Rodgers at the back end of the 1st round.  I don't know enough about the QB prospects at all to be able to tell you who that might be.  

[Jetsfan80]

48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I am confident of two things:

1. Sam Darnold will get to play all of 2020 and all of 2021 before the Jets dump him.

2. The Jets will not get or draft Lawrence, and Lawrence would not accept being drafted by the Jets.

Argue about it all you like, we'll see what happens.  But I'm pretty confident in these two statements.

 

Do you think we'll use a 1st round pick on a QB, like Fields or an alternative option?

[slats]

The Jets haven't made any decisions about Darnold yet because they don't want to. He's still a high end prospect who's gotten no help at all from the organization, and Joe Douglas understands that. The team is without its top four or five WRs right now. The big piece of the WR puzzle was supposed to be Mims, who still hasn't seen the field. Crowder, Perriman, and the Smiths out, too. Gase being unable to utilize a decent group of TEs. The whole thing is ugly. 

What's going to happen is that the Jets will have to play 13 more games this year, and they'll use those games to evaluate the head coach (maybe just one more game in his case) and Darnold. If Darnold and the offense get better as the OL gels and the WRs get on the field, they'll weigh that accordingly at the end of the year. What they should do is do everything in their power to find the right head coach, and have that coach -along with JD- make the call on Darnold next year. What the Jets have historically done would be to force Darnold on the next head coach, thus lowering the quality of head coaching candidates they're choosing from, and staying on this miserable cycle for the foreseeable future, just to try to salvage the pick. 

While people here have completely given up on Darnold, the organization can afford to keep him one more year and see if he can turn it around in 2021. They have five picks in the top 100 next year and a ton of cap space to invest in the offense around him. If he continues to flounder, it's not like any and all improvements wouldn't've been needed anyway. They'll just be in better position than they've ever been in before to bring in another rookie QB in 2022, hopefully. Or better yet, Darnold does get it. 

All that goes out the window, though, if Darnold shows no improvement at all over the course of the year and the Jets bumble their way to the #1 pick. Short of that, I think they'll want to give him one more year under a new head coach. And as much as people are down on Darnold right now, it's very possible a head coach would be willing to come in and keep him. It's not that long ago that he was the best QB prospect in years. 

[jgb]

47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I am confident of two things:

1. Sam Darnold will get to play all of 2020 and all of 2021 before the Jets dump him.

2. The Jets will not get or draft Lawrence, and Lawrence would not accept being drafted by the Jets.

Argue about it all you like, we'll see what happens.  But I'm pretty confident in these two statements.

Ironically the closer we get to "earning" the top overall pick, the less likely Lawrence has of declaring.

[Losmeister]

16 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

There is more than a shadow. There is a doubt. The jury is still out. After 15 months on the job Joe Douglas still has the worst roster in the NFL and is in charge of an organization that can’t keep players healthy. There is currently zero proof that Joe Douglas is better at his job than any other NFL GM right now. There is only hope. 

interesting. OL slowly became slightly less sucky last year...and has taken a step this year toward themiddle of the pack....

we havent seen the 2 wr he got us on the field atthe same time...

the onething was pass rush...  havdent seen much huff or even fileded zuniga,or seen the rookie cb....

[CTJetsFan]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's not going to "light it up" because he's not capable of that.  But in that extremely unlikely event, yes, you could franchise him.

However, there's a flaw to this thinking:  While I do think the top QB's will be taken in the first several picks of this draft, we do have two first rounders coming up.  Douglas may try to find the next Lamar Jackson/Aaron Rodgers at the back end of the 1st round.  I don't know enough about the QB prospects at all to be able to tell you who that might be.  

Agreed - too many possibilities regarding 2021 draft (and a QB). Just wanted to confirm that if JD passes on the 5th year option, it doesn't necessarily mean Sam is a goner for 2022.

[Warfish]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Do you think we'll use a 1st round pick on a QB, like Fields or an alternative option?

I don't.  I don't think we will earn the #1 pick overall.  I don't think we'll trade up to get the #1 overall.

I think JD will draft WR/OL/EDGE/CB primarily in the 2021 NFL Draft.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

Agreed - too many possibilities regarding 2021 draft (and a QB). Just wanted to confirm that if JD passes on the 5th year option, it doesn't necessarily mean Sam is a goner for 2022.

Not a guarantee.  But I just see no eventuality where he's a Jet beyond 2021.  The $25M 5th-year option and even more expensive franchise tag aren't worthwhile for a guy whose ceiling is Andy Dalton.  

It's far more likely that Darnold gets traded prior to the 2021 season than him being a Jet in 2022.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't.  I don't think we will earn the #1 pick overall.  I don't think we'll trade up to get the #1 overall.

I think JD will draft WR/OL/EDGE/CB primarily in the 2021 NFL Draft.

I don't think we'll be trading up either.  Stick and pick or trade down will likely be Douglas' strategy.  

[Losmeister]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets haven't made any decisions about Darnold yet because they don't want to. He's still a high end prospect who's gotten no help at all from the organization, and Joe Douglas understands that. The team is without its top four or five WRs right now. The big piece of the WR puzzle was supposed to be Mims, who still hasn't seen the field. Crowder, Perriman, and the Smiths out, too. Gase being unable to utilize a decent group of TEs. The whole thing is ugly. 

What's going to happen is that the Jets will have to play 13 more games this year, and they'll use those games to evaluate the head coach (maybe just one more game in his case) and Darnold. If Darnold and the offense get better as the OL gels and the WRs get on the field, they'll weigh that accordingly at the end of the year. What they should do is do everything in their power to find the right head coach, and have that coach -along with JD- make the call on Darnold next year. What the Jets have historically done would be to force Darnold on the next head coach, thus lowering the quality of head coaching candidates they're choosing from, and staying on this miserable cycle for the foreseeable future, just to try to salvage the pick. 

While people here have completely given up on Darnold, the organization can afford to keep him one more year and see if he can turn it around in 2021. They have five picks in the top 100 next year and a ton of cap space to invest in the offense around him next year. If he continues to flounder, it's not like any and all improvements wouldn't've been needed anyway. They'll just be in better position than they've ever been in before to bring in another rookie QB in 2022, hopefully. Or better yet, Darnold does get it. 

All that goes out the window, though, if Darnold shows no improvement at all over the course of the year and the Jets bumble their way to the #1 pick. Short of that, I think they'll want to give him one more year under a new head coach. And as much as people are down on Darnold right now, it's very possible a head coach would be willing to come in and keep him. It's not that long ago that he was the best QB prospect in years. 

Sam isn't anysort of prospect anymore.College players are prospects. YOu act like 30 professional starts simply do not count and/or are nuetral and he should be regarded as the prospect he WAS?  gimme a break.

and the 2nd and 3rd bolded is pretty contradictory.

jets would force the qb on the hc,maybe a hc wouldnt mind if the jets forced the qb?

[NIGHT STALKER]

Maybe we should go for a twofer and sign Gase to an extension along with Darnold...probably get a hometown discount because we all know these two guys are a hot commodity right now. 

[peekskill68]

13 hours ago, Pac said:

The Jets aren't releasing or trading Darnold.  That's stupid.  They do however need to move quickly.

Regardless of the outcome on Thursday they need to instantly relieve Gase of his duties, make GW the interim coach the remainder of the year, and elevate Bobcat Goldthwait to O-Coordinator.

It behooves JD to find out if Darnolds regression can be directly attributed to Gases' awful coaching, or he just plain sucks.  They'll have 12 games to figure that out.

I believe once Gase is gone and the troops start getting healthy, we'll see a MUCH better Darnold.  Cooter has experience with young and somewhat reckless gunslingers and can perhaps try and call an offense more suited to Sams strengths.

You don't give up on a 23 year old who has shown a lot of potential because he's being hamstrung by horrific coaching.  Luckily we have direct evidence of players who've escaped Gases' asylum and wind up thriving elsewhere.

If CJ allows Gase to coach the remainder of the year he will be exposed as the severely flawed leader he's accused of being, who also lied when he said he learned from not firing Macc earlier than he did. 

I actually agree alot of this.  If we're 0-4 in a few days and heading to a Top 3 pick in 2021, Douglas has to know if he has a QB that's salvageable or if he sucks as much as the coach designing the offense and calling the plays...

[slats]

34 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Sam isn't anysort of prospect anymore.College players are prospects. YOu act like 30 professional starts simply do not count and/or are nuetral and he should be regarded as the prospect he WAS?  gimme a break.

and the 2nd and 3rd bolded is pretty contradictory.

jets would force the qb on the hc,maybe a hc wouldnt mind if the jets forced the qb?

Right now, my best guess is that the Jets would be looking to go in another direction at QB with a new coach, but there's still a lot of football left to play and I'd be willing to bet there are many coaches out there who believe they can turn Darnold around. 

So no, not entirely contradictory. Nothing's decided yet. 

[Philc1]

Extend Sam on the cheap now and get a real head coach and WRs

[Losmeister]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

willing to bet there are many coaches out there

where?

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Extend Sam on the cheap now and get a real head coach and WRs

Why would Sam accept that?

Why isn't Sam's mindset now "get me out of here, I'm still young, maybe I can get with a better franchise"?

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why would Sam accept that?

Why isn't Sam's mindset now "get me out of here, I'm still young, maybe I can get with a better franchise"?

That should be his mentality. Josh Rosen, sitting on Tampa's practice squad, is currently in a better situation than Darnold. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

That should be his mentality. Josh Rosen, sitting on Tampa's practice squad, is currently in a better situation than Darnold. 

Agreed.  There is literally nothing to "sell" Sam on accepting a cheap deal long-term now.  

He was a near #1 pick.  Someone, somewhere WILL give him another chance, be it as a #2 or as a #1 again for another bad team.  Someone out there will think "I can fix him, I'm not the Jets" and give him some cash and a chance to compete vs. some meh in-place starter.  That's how the NFL works, generally.  

Sam has every motivation to do as well as he can now, and walk at the end of his contract to (he would hope) a better environment.