Is Gase taking too much heat from Jets fans?

[#27TheDominator]

33 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets were underdogs in all the games.  The Steelers and Raiders were in playoff position.  The rest of the teams weren't down to 4 of 5 offensive linemen playing out of position, 4th and 5th string WR's, and a QB coming off of a debilitating muscular disease.

6-2 was a real thing.  You can try to rationalize it away if you like, but you can't.  1-7 teams don't just go 6-2 without great coaching.

SAR I

How exactly do 6-2 teams go 1-7? 

[TuscanyTile2]

28 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets were underdogs in all the games.  The Steelers and Raiders were in playoff position.  The rest of the teams weren't down to 4 of 5 offensive linemen playing out of position, 4th and 5th string WR's, and a QB coming off of a debilitating muscular disease.

6-2 was a real thing.  You can try to rationalize it away if you like, but you can't.  1-7 teams don't just go 6-2 without great coaching.

SAR I

I will give you this though.  We have obviously had a ridiculous number of injuries.  To fire a guy when he hasn't had his regular team to work with at any time over his entire tenure does kind of suck.  (I also worry we're going to give up on Sam over the same type of thing btw).

Having said the above, I still don't believe in Gase.  But I wouldn't care if we gave him the rest of this year, were it not for my suspicion (which is, admittedly, just conjecture) that I think that he's hurting Sam's development/confidence.

Overall, I do think he's been dealt an incredibly sh*tty hand here so I have a little bit of compassion for him regarding that.  And I do admire to some degree if you're really defending him (rather than just trolling).  I still stand by my point though that a legit good coach would've had this team more competitive despite these ridiculous circumstances. 

[freestater]

I feel like this is a good place to add a "savvy", but I'm not really sure of it's proper conjugation. 

[SAR I]

20 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Gase has never been a good coach. Even with a healthy miami team he sucked.  Chris Johnson is incompetent. "Trying to do the right thing". LOL. He wouldn't know the right thing if it hit him in the face. You claim he is trying to get a HC and GM who like each other? Then dump Gase and let the GM pick HIS guy for once. But no. The Jihnsons insist on this f'd up reporting order that pits GM against HC  every damned time. You have no idea if JD likes or despises Gase as a HC . You just make assumptions, assume they are true, and reach ridiculous conclusions .

I think there's a fundamental truth when one is a fan of a team-  you either support and buy-in to the ownership's decisions and direction or you move on.

See, if one has an issue with a player or a coach, that can always be fixed with a replaceable part.  But the Johnson's are your owner, they are here to stay, for the rest of your life this team is going to remain under their ownership.  So if you are this angry at them and feel they are this incompetent, time to put your money away, take a year, choose a new NFL team whose ownership you respect, and pick up the sport again in 2022.

And before you say that you can't, because you're a loyal fan, etc. etc. think about it long and hard.  Because if you choose to remain a Jets fan from this point forward, you are making the conscious choice to believe that the Johnson's can deliver and root for them and their chosen leaders to succeed.  It means you agree that we need to stop the revolving door of coaches and GM's.  It means you agree that patience and understanding is called for while the roster is slowly corrected.  If any of that is disagreeable, you need to move off the Jets.  It's our strategy for the rest of your life and if you can't accept the Johnson's, you can't be a Jets fan.

SAR I

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

How exactly do 6-2 teams go 1-7? 

Great question.  They lose their QB1 and QB2.  They lose 18 players to IR.  They have the worst OL in the NFL.  They have a RB that can't stop dancing and hit a hole.  They have WR's you can't name.

The Jets were badly injured last year and it took Gase a few weeks to get his QB1 back and get the Bad News Bears roster to play at a cohesive level.  Then some weak teams appeared on the schedule and we looked better.

This year, same thing, except our D has regressed, our QB can't hit the side of a barn, and the injuries are a dagger through the entire receiving corps.

The good news?  We get Mims, Crowder, Perriman, Bell, and Smith back in the coming weeks.  And the schedule gets a little easier along the way too.

SAR I

[SAR I]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I will give you this though.  We have obviously had a ridiculous number of injuries.  To fire a guy when he hasn't had his regular team to work with at any time over his entire tenure does kind of suck.  (I also worry we're going to give up on Sam over the same type of thing btw).

Having said the above, I still don't believe in Gase.  But I wouldn't care if we gave him the rest of this year, were it not for my suspicion (which is, admittedly, just conjecture) that I think that he's hurting Sam's development/confidence.

Overall, I do think he's been dealt an incredibly sh*tty hand here so I have a little bit of compassion for him regarding that.  And I do admire to some degree if you're really defending him (rather than just trolling).  I still stand by my point though that a legit good coach would've had this team more competitive despite these ridiculous circumstances. 

Good post, I leave you with this:

Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, and now Kyle Shannahan all looked awful on awful teams early in their NFL careers and got second chances from patient owners and it paid off in a big way.  If I had a time machine and came to JN in 1995 and told you that Pete Carroll is the one who got away you would have laughed your ass off.  It happens this way more than you think.

SAR I

[#27TheDominator]

Why do the Jets lose?  They lose because Bell sucks.  Also, when Bell was hurt, how could they expect to replace his production?  

Their WRs were not injured in 2019.  In 2020, freed from his shackles Anderson is 6th in yards, and 9th in receptions.  The QB missed 3 games.  What team could overcome such adversity?

[southtown24th]

hahahaaaaaa

[TuscanyTile2]

43 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Good post, I leave you with this:

Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, and now Kyle Shannahan all looked awful on awful teams early in their NFL careers and got second chances from patient owners and it paid off in a big way.  If I had a time machine and came to JN in 1995 and told you that Pete Carroll is the one who got away you would have laughed your ass off.  It happens this way more than you think.

SAR I

Okay but would you also agree that, far more often than not, HCs are just simply not good?  I mean, aren't the odds greatly in favor of that?  (or else the league would have a lot more good HCs)

[RevisIsland610]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

The Jets were underdogs in all the games.  The Steelers and Raiders were in playoff position.  The rest of the teams weren't down to 4 of 5 offensive linemen playing out of position, 4th and 5th string WR's, and a QB coming off of a debilitating muscular disease.

6-2 was a real thing.  You can try to rationalize it away if you like, but you can't.  1-7 teams don't just go 6-2 without great coaching.

SAR I

No YOU are the one who is rationalizing by saying the crappy Dolphins, Bengals, Giants, and Washington were any better than the crappy Jets. Those 4 teams had a COMBINED 14 wins. 

[pointman]

13 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Trumaine Johnson, Henry Anderson, CJ Mosley, LeVeon Bell, Jamison Crowder, Quincy Enunwa

Those 6 guys take up over 35 percent of the teams cap space. 

Quinnen Williams, Sam Darnold, Marcus Maye, Blessaun Austin, Jordan Jenkins, Chris Herndon

From 2015-2019 (5 drafts) those are current starters of which 4/6 need to be upgraded. 
 

The men responsible for this mess is Mike McCagnan and Christopher Johnson. This season is a culmination of the mess they made with this roster. Gase deserves some blame, but it’s not all on him-not even close. 

 

Ban yourself. 

[Bronx]

He sucks donkey...

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

....you can't be a Jets fan.

SAR I

Yet another reminder that SAR thinks he gets to decide who can, and can't, be a Jets Fan.

 

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

That narrative is inconsistent with Sam's significant improvement in the 2nd half of year 1 followed by steady regression under Gase.  Nope..  Gase has harmed darnold, I am sure of it.

It's actually very consistent.  In year 1 he was pure instinct.  It's never going to be good enough.  Now that he is being forced to learn how to play the position he's thinking and regressing.  Year 1 Sam wasn't good enough ever to be a top NFL QB.

[Dcat]

13 minutes ago, Biggs said:

It's actually very consistent.  In year 1 he was pure instinct.  It's never going to be good enough.  Now that he is being forced to learn how to play the position he's thinking and regressing.  Year 1 Sam wasn't good enough ever to be a top NFL QB.

His mechanics were improving in year one. It was not "all" instinct, but cute hyperbole nonetheless. Hes not being forced to learn the position.  Hes being forced to implement an inept offensive scheme that is antiquated, predictable and ineffective in today's NFL. Nobody it seems, is working on Sam's mechanics. Its all about Gases game plan. Gase should be held criminally negligent for what he hasn't done. These are some of the things Adams was alluding to in his condemnation if Gase . The message around the NFL is clear. Nobody develops under Gase.

[TNJet]

Gase deserves 100% blame. 

He's why every single player in our offense is ill prepared. He's also the guy who plays the washed up has beens or straight up bad players overvthe young exciting ones. Gore/Ballage over Perine. Did I mention he's the worst play caller I've ever seen in my entire life?

[Losmeister]

3 hours ago, Dcat said:

That narrative is inconsistent with Sam's significant improvement in the 2nd half of year 1 followed by steady regression under Gase.  Nope..  Gase has harmed darnold, I am sure of it.

Using a 4 game sample ..as the standard... is poor data analysis.

It's really Sam's story, cos people point to that ******* Bowl game and claim THAT IS WHO SAM DARNOLD IS!!!

(and ignore all thebad sh*t in 2018 including the bowl game that year)

 

 

 

 

Anyway. Give Gase grief for the things in his control, and Sam for his as well.

 

Sam has missed guys all over the place for 2 years...  his mechanics are awful and not consistent with good QB play in the NFL.

Is there a single example where a QB with demonstrably bad mechanics was "developed" by his OC/HC to have good mechanics?

 

 

 

[Embrace the Suck]

6 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I'm see SF or any other team with injuries and crap happinging this year or last. My fav is SF and then someone like hubert ballin..or maybe chicago etc

[slimjasi]

Gase's teams aren't competitive. They get blown out every week. Moreover, getting blown out has been a consistent hallmark of Gase's entire head coaching career. The other issue is, he's an offensive coach (who puts almost all of his time on that side of the ball) whose offense is annually among the worst in the league.

The roster sucks, but the lack of competitiveness is a clear indictment of the head coach. 

[bealeb319]

Being beat by teams is one thing but under gase we are constantly non competitive. Our players have looked lost and instead of trying new ways to get the most out of his guys gase throws players under the bus and blames them for losses. We are not being too harsh on the guy he is complete garbage as a coach and needs to go.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[BornJetsFan1983]

42 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

I was trying to say albeit with terrible typos and bad overall grammer, that the Jets lost to San Francisco that had a worse roster than us. And we were not even competitive.

So the whole well gase doesn't have a good roster excuse is silly. SF didn't have a good roster and we got shellacked because the real problem isn't roster it's coaching.

I'm not sure how my phone typed that, not how I didn't notice before I approved it. My bad. I really gased it up there.

[BornJetsFan1983]

35 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Being beat by teams is one thing but under gase we are constantly non competitive. Our players have looked lost and instead of trying new ways to get the most out of his guys gase throws players under the bus and blames them for losses. We are not being too harsh on the guy he is complete garbage as a coach and needs to go.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Yeah he has always blamed players when it's really his dumb ass playbook. 

[HessStation]

10 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Gase is not doing a good job, but he is getting a disproportionate amount of criticism.   

Bc the #1 a$$hole already fired the #2 a$$hole and we can’t get rid of #1 and since #3 a$$hole Sucks too that’s who we will chastise into dirt 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

I think there's a fundamental truth when one is a fan of a team-  you either support and buy-in to the ownership's decisions and direction or you move on.

See, if one has an issue with a player or a coach, that can always be fixed with a replaceable part.  But the Johnson's are your owner, they are here to stay, for the rest of your life this team is going to remain under their ownership.  So if you are this angry at them and feel they are this incompetent, time to put your money away, take a year, choose a new NFL team whose ownership you respect, and pick up the sport again in 2022.

And before you say that you can't, because you're a loyal fan, etc. etc. think about it long and hard.  Because if you choose to remain a Jets fan from this point forward, you are making the conscious choice to believe that the Johnson's can deliver and root for them and their chosen leaders to succeed.  It means you agree that we need to stop the revolving door of coaches and GM's.  It means you agree that patience and understanding is called for while the roster is slowly corrected.  If any of that is disagreeable, you need to move off the Jets.  It's our strategy for the rest of your life and if you can't accept the Johnson's, you can't be a Jets fan.

SAR I

GTFO with this post.

[SOJ]

10 hours ago, rangerous said:

Much as gase is the head coach and does deserve much of the heat, it all starts with the oline play.  They are starting 4 new players and they haven’t had enough practice or playing. Add the injuries into the mix and it’s a huge problem. After oline it goes to the wrs. I’m sure there was hope that Perriman, being on a show me contract, would try harder to be on the field. And it is also sad that mims is out with injury. Funny that Berrios has a bad ham string but is playing and playing well. But it’s also unrealistic to think they can have a decent passing game with guys like hogan or Cager being the go to guys. It’s also a little disheartening to see guys like griffin and Herndon not doing well.  Going into the season, darnold had lots of places to throw the ball between the wrs, tes, and rbs.  Not so much at the moment.

At some point the players need to step up. Do they even want to be football players?  Sometimes it seems like they want to mail it in. If this is the case then there is a lot more house cleaning to do.

Sometimes you need to have faith and trust in the coaching staff... just speculating here but I doubt they do based on everyone's performance... AS others have stated, he was brought here for one reason only (besides winning) that is to develop Sam and he has... unfortunately, he made him look like the second coming of MS and/or Geno - take your pick. 

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

His mechanics were improving in year one. It was not "all" instinct, but cute hyperbole nonetheless. Hes not being forced to learn the position.  Hes being forced to implement an inept offensive scheme that is antiquated, predictable and ineffective in today's NFL. Nobody it seems, is working on Sam's mechanics. Its all about Gases game plan. Gase should be held criminally negligent for what he hasn't done. These are some of the things Adams was alluding to in his condemnation if Gase . The message around the NFL is clear. Nobody develops under Gase.

Sam Darnold ranked 31 in passer rating his rookie year.  He sucked and he needed to be fixed and I don't mean vasectomy.  

[Embrace the Suck]

29 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

, that the Jets lost to San Francisco that had a worse roster than us.

So, I disagree. The 49'ers, injuries granted, were just in the SB. Their roster is better from top to bottom. Their systems established and clearly successful.

31 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

So the whole well gase doesn't have a good roster excuse is silly.

Actually, it's an undeniable reality. Does that preclude Gase from being part of the problem? No, and it isn't an excuse nor is it silly. When/if another HC takes over this season it will still be reality that the roster has been poorly assembled for some time now.

[Jetscode1]

No, Gase needs a little more heat.  I want to watch more of his product.

With that said, can we raise the heat on the Johnson family to sell?  I don't think Jets fans are pouring enough heat on their contribution to the last 10 years.  Anyone have political connections?  Eminent domain?  

[CanadaSteve]

My computer chair isn't fully to blame for my chronic hemorrhoids, but it plays a big part in it.

Think of Gase like my computer chair.

[BornJetsFan1983]

29 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

So, I disagree. The 49'ers, injuries granted, were just in the SB. Their roster is better from top to bottom. Their systems established and clearly successful.

Actually, it's an undeniable reality. Does that preclude Gase from being part of the problem? No, and it isn't an excuse nor is it silly. When/if another HC takes over this season it will still be reality that the roster has been poorly assembled for some time now

Dude thier back ups are diff this year and most didn't contribute to that SB and let's not over look our starters were playing thier back ups.

My whole point is yes another coach makes us competitive in a week turn around by simple not sucking

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, SAR I said:

Great question.  They lose their QB1 and QB2.  They lose 18 players to IR.  They have the worst OL in the NFL.  They have a RB that can't stop dancing and hit a hole.  They have WR's you can't name.

The Jets were badly injured last year and it took Gase a few weeks to get his QB1 back and get the Bad News Bears roster to play at a cohesive level.  Then some weak teams appeared on the schedule and we looked better.

This year, same thing, except our D has regressed, our QB can't hit the side of a barn, and the injuries are a dagger through the entire receiving corps.

The good news?  We get Mims, Crowder, Perriman, Bell, and Smith back in the coming weeks.  And the schedule gets a little easier along the way too.

SAR I

I wouldn’t say the defense has regressed as much as it’s not getting a complimentary performance from the offense.

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, Losmeister said:

Using a 4 game sample ..as the standard... is poor data analysis.

It's really Sam's story, cos people point to that ******* Bowl game and claim THAT IS WHO SAM DARNOLD IS!!!

(and ignore all thebad sh*t in 2018 including the bowl game that year)

 

 

 

 

Anyway. Give Gase grief for the things in his control, and Sam for his as well.

 

Sam has missed guys all over the place for 2 years...  his mechanics are awful and not consistent with good QB play in the NFL.

Is there a single example where a QB with demonstrably bad mechanics was "developed" by his OC/HC to have good mechanics?

 

 

 

I watched plenty of Sam his second year at USC and obviously first 2 years on jets. He is a talented player.  He has no receivers and a lousy head coach.  He will be the next player to improve after getting away from Adam

[Philc1]

17 minutes ago, rangerous said:

I wouldn’t say the defense has regressed as much as it’s not getting a complimentary performance from the offense.

The defense isn’t tackling.  The DBs aren’t covering.  Adams was not as big a loss as the media makes him out to be but the defense is playing flat

[SAR I]

37 minutes ago, rangerous said:

I wouldn’t say the defense has regressed as much as it’s not getting a complimentary performance from the offense.

It’s a great night as we are now able to keep Georgiev, but the truth is the Jets defense is absolutely abysmal.  Chunk plays, blown coverages, terrible penalties.  

It’s understandable that with all the injuries the O will struggle.  What’s the D’s excuse?  Gregg had less to work with last year and the players can’t even tackle. 

SAR I

[NYJ1]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

6-2 was a real thing.  You can try to rationalize it away if you like, but you can't.  1-7 teams don't just go 6-2 without great coaching.

SAR I

Right back at you SAR.... 0-2 is a real thing. You can try to rationalize it away if you like, but you can't. 6-2 teams don't just go 0-2 without exceptionally BAD coaching.