Gase & the injuries

[maury77]

If any of you out there have ever worked as trainers, can you shed any light on what may be going on with the injuries? I know people like to chalk it up to bad luck, but Gase's teams have been injury riddled every year both here and in Miami. He didn't bring his Miami training staff to NY, so I think we can remove the trainers out of the equation (to an extent). Does the team practice too hard? Is the team not practicing hard enough so their bodies aren't getting conditioned to withstanding the physical stress of an NFL game?

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, maury77 said:

If any of you out there have ever worked as trainers, can you shed any light on what may be going on with the injuries? I know people like to chalk it up to bad luck, but Gase's teams have been injury riddled every year both here and in Miami. He didn't bring his Miami training staff to NY, so I think we can remove the trainers out of the equation (to an extent). Does the team practice too hard? Is the team not practicing hard enough so their bodies aren't getting conditioned to withstanding the physical stress of an NFL game?

I think we can eliminate practicing too hard. 

Must be not practicing hard enough.

Or we are cursed. 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

I think guys don't like playing for Adam Gase and are motivated to be "injured" at the slightest little boo boo where they would have played through it no problem had the circumstances been better. I think it happens far too frequently to just be bad luck or whatever. Just my opinion/guess.

Watch how quickly guys stop going to the injury list and come off it when he's fired.

[#27TheDominator]

Maybe they don't want to play for him, so nobody is playing dinged?  Osemele sure seemed to want out. Mosley opted out.  Guys are taking their pay checks.   

[Losmeister]

25 minutes ago, maury77 said:

If any of you out there have ever worked as trainers, can you shed any light on what may be going on with the injuries? I know people like to chalk it up to bad luck, but Gase's teams have been injury riddled every year both here and in Miami. He didn't bring his Miami training staff to NY, so I think we can remove the trainers out of the equation (to an extent). Does the team practice too hard? Is the team not practicing hard enough so their bodies aren't getting conditioned to withstanding the physical stress of an NFL game?

ask the niners.

jimmy g wasinjured 2 years agoas well.

its ******* random. we're not special. its a horse, not a zeebra.

[#27TheDominator]

This year everybody is hurt.  I assume it is the interrupted offseason training and the abbreviated camps.  

[maury77]

33 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

This year everybody is hurt.  I assume it is the interrupted offseason training and the abbreviated camps.  

I agree that probably explains this year, but what about last year? https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/2019-adjusted-games-lost-part-i

Or 2018: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-adjusted-games-lost-part-i

Or 2017: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/2017-adjusted-games-lost

Or 2016: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/2016-adjusted-games-lost

2018 through 2016 look at miami

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think guys don't like playing for Adam Gase and are motivated to be "injured" at the slightest little boo boo where they would have played through it no problem had the circumstances been better. I think it happens far too frequently to just be bad luck or whatever. Just my opinion/guess.

Watch how quickly guys stop going to the injury list and come off it when he's fired.

All true, but we are playing a team this week that is hit hard by injuries to some degree worse than us since many are season ending. It happens just seems to happen to Gase every year. Maybe he is snake bitten.

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

All true, but we are playing a team this week that is hit hard by injuries to some degree worse than us since many are season ending. It happens just seems to happen to Gase every year. Maybe he is snake bitten.

That's right, it's every year with Gase. If it were just a one off I would have a different opinion. 

[Losmeister]

how does gase manage to getthe guys on my favorite premier league team injured as well? cos the guys on that forum swear its the trainer...

[UntouchableCrew]

Honestly, the most likely reason that a coach like Gase seems plagued by injuries to me is that players don't like him and his teams are often bad so they're less likely to suck it up and find a way to get on the field.

Would you "do whatever it takes" to get on the field for this team?

This is just speculation but if there's a cause beyond bad luck that seems most likely to me.

[Losmeister]

here...

JN and its limited minds...  gaaah!!!

http://ime.math.arizona.edu/g-teams/Profiles/DL/coinflips.pdf 

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Honestly, the most likely reason that a coach like Gase seems plagued by injuries to me is that players don't like him and his teams are often bad so they're less likely to suck it up and find a way to get on the field.

Would you "do whatever it takes" to get on the field for this team?

This is just speculation but if there's a cause beyond bad luck that seems most likely to me.

imbecilic

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think guys don't like playing for Adam Gase and are motivated to be "injured" at the slightest little boo boo where they would have played through it no problem had the circumstances been better. I think it happens far too frequently to just be bad luck or whatever. Just my opinion/guess.

Watch how quickly guys stop going to the injury list and come off it when he's fired.

No, I agree, for sure.  Notice how everyone has "hammy" which are historically challenging injuries for trainers to identify and manage?  It's pretty much take the player by his word on his pain threshold type of thingy.  

[Irish Jet]

29 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I agree that probably explains this year, but what about last year? https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/2019-adjusted-games-lost-part-i

Or 2018: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-adjusted-games-lost-part-i

Or 2017: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/2017-adjusted-games-lost

Or 2016: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/2016-adjusted-games-lost

2018 through 2016 look at miami

What in the actual f*ck.

[Philc1]

It’s getting leaked to the media the injuries are a cover that the players are quitting on Gase 

[ryu79]

Has anyone seen a real data analysis on the Gase injury tendency hypothesis across his Jets and Miami days? I would be very curious to understand if we just are primed to notice this based on the 'self as target' fallacy - i.e., you always over count your own experience. 

if its real statistically - I think the hypothesis above on goodwill is worth considering. All NFL players play injured every week and there could be something there on willingness to play hurt for a coach you dont believe in. 

Our current slug of injuries is just wild.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Maybe they don't want to play for him, so nobody is playing dinged?  Osemele sure seemed to want out. Mosley opted out.  Guys are taking their pay checks.   

Bell came out of the lockerroom with his hammy wrapped up and ready to play despite clearly being hurt. So not sure this entirely accurate. 

I remember hearing Gase respond to a question about Mims injury saying "We'll have to see what JD says about IR." Or something to that effect. Meaning, this could be JD protect his investments long term and hanging Gase out to dry in the short term. 

[#27TheDominator]

Wasn't there a story about Tannehill taking some kind of alternative stem cell treatment instead of surgery which caused him to miss most of two years instead of the one?

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

It’s getting leaked to the media the injuries are a cover that the players are quitting on Gase 

link?

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

Has anyone seen a real data analysis on the Gase injury tendency hypothesis across his Jets and Miami days? I would be very curious to understand if we just are primed to notice this based on the 'self as target' fallacy - i.e., you always over count your own experience. 

if its real statistically - I think the hypothesis above on goodwill is worth considering. All NFL players play injured every week and there could be something there on willingness to play hurt for a coach you dont believe in. 

Our current slug of injuries is just wild.

And it’s also suspect that all the injuries are hamstring.  That’s an injury you can’t prove or disprove with MRIs or Xrays like a fracture and ACL

[ryu79]

7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

It’s getting leaked to the media the injuries are a cover that the players are quitting on Gase 

Where are you reading/hearing/seeing this?

[Philc1]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

link?

Google Colin Cowherd there’s only 12 different threads discussing it

[Lurker89]

Gase and The Injuries.

Now that's a band name right there.

[ryu79]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wasn't there a story about Tannehill taking some kind of alternative stem cell treatment instead of surgery which caused him to miss most of two years instead of the one?

Then good for him. Tennessee is certainly reaping the benefit.

[maury77]

Has anyone seen a real data analysis on the Gase injury tendency hypothesis across his Jets and Miami days? I would be very curious to understand if we just are primed to notice this based on the 'self as target' fallacy - i.e., you always over count your own experience. 
if its real statistically - I think the hypothesis above on goodwill is worth considering. All NFL players play injured every week and there could be something there on willingness to play hurt for a coach you dont believe in. 
Our current slug of injuries is just wild.

FYI, scroll up and look at the links I posted


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[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Lurker89 said:

Gase and The Injuries.

Now that's a band name right there.

He had the same thing happen in Miami.  Remember he had a meltdown over a reporter asking him what Tannehill’s injury was?

[ryu79]

10 minutes ago, maury77 said:

FYI, scroll up and look at the links I posted


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Right, so reading those articles, Gase's Miami teams dont appear to be outliers in the 2016-18 period, and more importantly, the Jets are flagged for simply being more forthright with injuries consistently than other teams. Which would run counter to the Osemele controversy last year. 

Its possible that if someone were to run the data across all these years and do a regression looking for whether Gase himself has an impact on missing players to injury they would find someone. The way this is cut by year, I dont necessarily see that other than last year being high. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I would say that this is not the ideal treatment for hamstrings. Someone should let Gase know.

[maury77]

17 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

Right, so reading those articles, Gase's Miami teams dont appear to be outliers in the 2016-18 period, and more importantly, the Jets are flagged for simply being more forthright with injuries consistently than other teams. Which would run counter to the Osemele controversy last year. 

Its possible that if someone were to run the data across all these years and do a regression looking for whether Gase himself has an impact on missing players to injury they would find someone. The way this is cut by year, I dont necessarily see that other than last year being high. 

2019- Jets are 32nd

2018  - Miami ranked 22nd

2017 - Miami ranked 30th

2016 - Miami ranked 28th.

A quote, "Could Adam Gase be on a similar path in Miami after the Dolphins racked up more than 100 AGL for the second year in a row? It can't help that they have jettisoned away players such as Jay Ajayi, Jarvis Landry, Ndamukong Suh, Mike Pouncey, etc., in the last few months. "

You have to scroll down and look at the AGL results, you are only looking at the first graphs that pop up.

[nyjunc]

It may be just horrible luck but when it becomes a pattern like it has for his teams you have to move on.  I wish we'd get to see him coach a healthy team but it's not meant to be.

[ChuckkieB]

Bad teams mysteriously have a lot of injuries.  Except it's not so mysterious.  It's human nature to take the path of least resistance when you are demotivated, and in this instance, by bad a bad team, bad coaching, and bad ownership.  That plus most of these players are getting paid plenty of money whether they make the effort or not.  Losing is contagious and it sours the desire and motivation of even the most dedicated of athletes sometimes. 

Good organizations are able to recognize this happening in real time and not wasting multiple seasons before jettisoning losers like Gase.  Let's see if the Johnson's have learned anything of the last decade of ineptitude.

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

I think we can eliminate practicing too hard. 

Must be not practicing hard enough.

Or we are cursed. 

 

There’s an old saying in the NFL about not playing 100% being a recipe for increased injury risk. So, while you’re joking, I wonder if there is some truth to it.

[ryu79]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

2019- Jets are 32nd

2018  - Miami ranked 22nd

2017 - Miami ranked 30th

2016 - Miami ranked 28th.

A quote, "Could Adam Gase be on a similar path in Miami after the Dolphins racked up more than 100 AGL for the second year in a row? It can't help that they have jettisoned away players such as Jay Ajayi, Jarvis Landry, Ndamukong Suh, Mike Pouncey, etc., in the last few months. "

You have to scroll down and look at the AGL results, you are only looking at the first graphs that pop up.

No, I saw those. I just dont find that data compelling as framed that way (or rather it doesnt tell you how different they are from the mean - for example, the year he was 22nd or 28th might be statistically closer to the mean than you'd expect). Put better, your data is enough to hypothesize there could be something there and in that regard is compelling, but its not conclusive because you can't tell from it whether the trend is statisically different from chance.  I bet if PFF or the Ringer or these people looked at this, there is a potentially really interesting story to be found in the numbers.