Seahawks defense only team to ever allow more than 1,200 passing yards through three weeks

[bitonti]

30 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m old enough to remember when bitonti said that three games wasn’t enough of a sample size to assess the performance of a team or unit. (It was at 10:56 a.m.)

is this a pro Gase post? or are you offering me  Jets under 6.5

cause either works for me 

 

24 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Plus, as you've been told repeatedly whenever you've thrown out your fictitious conspiracy theory, your attempts to cite all this money combined the Jets supposedly refuse to spend is based on an entirely false premise.  Ever since the rolling cap was implemented in the NFL, the only potential spending the team could make for every single prior year combined is only in their current available salary cap space, and literally not one penny more.  They may have plenty of it this year, but also have a steaming pile of crap roster undeserving of being paid a cent more, as if that'll magically make them play any better.  For a team needing a complete roster rebuild, investing all of the available money you have into a single player that has been part of years worth of failure is not a solution.  By your own argument, you'd be asserting this money should only be actively spent in free agency, which of course then contradicts your Adams diatribe. 

Of course, I anxiously await your response to one fraction of a single sentence, in which you are both factually incorrect and contradicting yourself.

Simple question when's the last time the New York Football Jets were at 100% of cap spend

not rhetorical, I want a date and a year

I believe it was 2012 8 years ago 

perhaps you have better figures

***

there is no such thing as a complete roster rebuild in the NFL a place where employees last 3 years and coaches last maybe 4

every year teams have to win more than they lose or everyone gets fired 

***

as for the second bold statement Paying an all pro player can help cap in the short term 

the Chiefs did it over and over. They frontload the deals and have cap space to work with

it wasn't just KC, alot of players from Adams' draft class got deals including Myles Garrett, CmC, the cornerback etc. Jamal will get his deal whether it's from Seattle or someone else he makes his 3rd all pro team and gets paid 

meanwhile the Jets do the opposite they keep open cap space and trade their assets for picks 

they splash spend on Mercs like CJ mosely and Trumaine Johnson to get over the floor 

they are not in danger of the cap ceiling, and haven't been for years 

everyone assumes I have this "johnson's are cheap" agenda it's called what's actually happening 

other teams spend to the cap and try to win and the Jets used to do this 

instead the Jets watch Robby play like a WR 1 at WR 2 prices and bought Perriman a WR4 to do Robby's job. Ludicrous.

***

but that's not the worst part

somehow watching fellow fans use passing yard stats to try to prove that 1) seahawks sux 2) maye is the same as adams and 3) the trade was great 

that's the worst part 

 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

the difference between the 2020 Jets and the 2019 Jets

Which is what? The 2019 Jets started 0-3 too.

[Philc1]

Adams is the most overrated player in the nfl

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I get what you're saying in a larger sense--it sucks that the Jets have once again chosen to get worse before they get better, with no guarantee that they will in fact get better. I think where we differ is in how much worse the team actually got. We were 20-42 in games he started.

No idea what you're talking about with the rolling around on the carpet stuff. I seem to remember plenty of times they looked like they quit while he was here. Wasn't it Adams himself who complained about the lack of "dawgs" on the roster?

Business decision by Bradley

https://www.nfl.com/videos/jonathan-taylor-sidesteps-bradley-mcdougald-at-the-goal-line-for-td 

as for the Jets with or without Adams I say they are 0-62 without Adams based on their effort the first 3 games

i am aware that's probably an overstatement but by how much is up for debate 

this 2020 Jets are a team that quit before the season full of players that simply DGAF

 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Which is what? The 2019 Jets started 0-3 too.

the 2020 Jets look realistic to finish 0-16 that's the difference

this team might legit be worse than 1995 Kotite 

it might be the worst Jets team of all time 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

the 2020 Jets look realistic to finish 0-16 that's the difference

this team might legit be worse than 1995 Kotite 

it might be the worst Jets team of all time 

The 1996 jets had more talent

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

If we had that WAR stat it would prove my point that Adams was the only thing keeping the defense respectable and the defense was the only thing keeping this team respectable 

The 2019 Jets defense was 11th in DVOA. The 2020 version is 14th.

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

somehow watching fellow fans use passing yard stats to try to prove that 1) seahawks sux 2) maye is the same as adams and 3) the trade was great 

Which would you prefer? DVOA? Because that has the Seahawks at 29th in pass defense. How about opponent YPA? Because they're 31st in that. 

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Business decision by Bradley

https://www.nfl.com/videos/jonathan-taylor-sidesteps-bradley-mcdougald-at-the-goal-line-for-td 

as for the Jets with or without Adams I say they are 0-62 without Adams based on their effort the first 3 games

i am aware that's probably an overstatement but by how much is up for debate 

this 2020 Jets are a team that quit before the season full of players that simply DGAF

The Jets lost to an 0-7 team and an 0-11 team last season.

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the 2020 Jets look realistic to finish 0-16 that's the difference

this team might legit be worse than 1995 Kotite 

it might be the worst Jets team of all time 

Where do they finish with Adams? How many wins is he worth all by himself?

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

but that's not the worst part

somehow watching fellow fans use passing yard stats to try to prove that 1) seahawks sux 2) maye is the same as adams and 3) the trade was great 

that's the worst part 

 

What is the Jets record today if we had paid Adams $15 million for 6 seasons?

What is the Jets Defensive Ranking today if we had paid Adams $15 million for 6 seasons?

We're established, conclusively, the small variance in Maye v. Adams statistics so far.

So what is the bigger picture variance, as you see it Bit?  The things that matter, record and overall Defensive performance?

[Losmeister]

Seattle pass DVOA 2019 was 16th,....  and now 29th....

Adams Transformational Player

[bitonti]

32 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What is the Jets record today if we had paid Adams $15 million for 6 seasons?

What is the Jets Defensive Ranking today if we had paid Adams $15 million for 6 seasons?

We're established, conclusively, the small variance in Maye v. Adams statistics so far.

So what is the bigger picture variance, as you see it Bit?  The things that matter, record and overall Defensive performance?

who knows? maybe they are 1-2 or 2-1

and some might say that's worse because their pick in the draft isn't as high 

 

but no

every win is a step towards winning culture and every loss reinforces the habit of losing 

there is no such things as a "bad win" or a "good loss" in the NFL 

this is the root of the disagreement. Like my signature has sarcastically proclaimed for some time, getting worse to get better is not how anything works 

if being bad were all it took to be great, the Browns would be awesome by now  

and even if there was some sort of long term cosmic tradeoff, a great big meteor could arrive tomorrow we don't know what kind of time any of us have in this world

i.e. the "long rebuild" is a con and most of the fanbase has bought into this idea they can trade their best player for picks and go winless and pick 1 overall and end up better as a franchise for it 

[bitonti]

36 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The 2019 Jets defense was 11th in DVOA. The 2020 version is 14th.

Which would you prefer? DVOA? Because that has the Seahawks at 29th in pass defense. How about opponent YPA? Because they're 31st in that. 

 

Garbage time skews these stats on both sides

Garbage time vs the Jets makes the D looks better because the other team is running backups and just trying to bleed clock 

Garbage time vs the Seahawks (Atl week 1) makes their D look worse because the other team is down 28-11 late 3q and they are playing prevent 

 

 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Garbage time skews these stats on both sides

Garbage time vs the Jets makes the D looks better because the other team is running backups and just trying to bleed clock 

Garbage time vs the Seahawks (Atl week 1) makes their D look worse because the other team is down 28-11 late 3q and they are playing prevent 

 

 

Oh, ok. Nevermind

[Mogglez]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Oh, ok. Nevermind

It’s like arguing with a brick wall.  There’s an excuse for everything.

The Seahawks defense giving up 400+ a game because of one half of “garbage time” in Atlanta is just the latest in a long line of excuses.  Just like when Vernon Gholston wasn’t getting sacks because his first jump was so incredible defensive coordinators were triple teaming him.

if your excuse list for someone is a CVS receipt in length,  you’re probably just wrong.

[bitonti]

21 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

if your excuse list for someone is a CVS receipt in length,  you’re probably just wrong.

this is how I feel about those who support Sam Darnold and complain about his WR, TE, OL, QB coach, etc. 

27 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Oh, ok. Nevermind

they count submissions as a victory by the way 

 

 

 

[Mogglez]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is how I feel about those who support Sam Darnold and complain about his WR, TE, OL, QB coach, etc. 

they count submissions as a victory by the way 

 

 

 

The difference is, most people who defended Sam before the season unfolded have admitted they were wrong at this point.  You now have tangible evidence spanning 2 different teams that Jamal sucks in coverage and is nothing more than a run stuffing luxury player that has almost zero impact on wins and losses, and yet you can’t admit you were wrong.

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The difference is, most people who defended Sam is that they have admitted they were wrong at this point.  You now have tangible evidence spanning 2 different teams that Jamal sucks in coverage and is nothing more than a luxury player that has almost zero impact on wins and losses, and yet you can’t admit you were wrong.

there are people in this thread who still believe, today, that Kerry Rhodes is better than Jamal Adams 

i never said Jamal was any good in coverage that's the thing 

what I am saying is these coverage stats "total passing yards" don't really make the difference between Wins and Losses

end of the day 33 has every impact on wins and losses, based on the evidence this team is likely going winless 

seahawks give up 1200 passing yards. they are also Super bowl bound NFC champ game as a floor that's how dominant they look 

we are watching the evidence play out as the season progresses 

if they don't beat Brett Rypien this thursday the Jets won't win a game

worst Jets team in history

ya heard it hear first 

And no Jamal Adams isn't the only reason they are bad or the only way they can be good but football is momentum and when you trade your best player it crushes the locker room's will to live.

even if that player is a no coverage box safety 

the Jets constantly dump their good players and sign bad ones to replace them. it's numerous bad decisions this is just the latest and the most significant 

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

end of the day 33 has every impact on wins and losses, based on the evidence this team is likely going winless 

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there are people in this thread who still believe, today, that Kerry Rhodes is better than Jamal Adams 

i never said Jamal was any good in coverage that's the thing 

what I am saying is these coverage stats "total passing yards" don't really make the difference between Wins and Losses

end of the day 33 has every impact on wins and losses, based on the evidence this team is likely going winless 

we are watching the evidence play out as the season progresses 

if they don't beat Brett Rypien this thursday they won't win a game

worst Jets team in history

ya heard it hear first 

And no Jamal Adams isn't the only reason they are bad or the only way they can be good but football is momentum and when you trade your best player it crushes the locker room's will to live

even if that player is a no coverage box safety 

The passer rating against Jamal through three weeks tells me all I need to know about his coverage abilities.  I don’t need Seattle’s rankings.

If you’ve watched these games and determined that trading Jamal Adams is the reason we are 0-3, you are beyond help.  Sam Darnold isn’t throwing passes into triple coverage because he’s sad Jamal left.  Injuries aren’t happening left and right because Jamal is gone.  The defense isn’t struggling to stop the underneath passing game because the Safety that can’t cover is gone.

For the record, I was the first to predict that they don’t win a game, 2 weeks ago.  You’re preaching to the choir there.

[bitonti]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The passer rating against Jamal through three weeks tells me all I need to know about his coverage abilities.  I don’t need Seattle’s rankings.

If you’ve watched these games and determined that trading Jamal Adams is the reason we are 0-3, you are beyond help.  Sam Darnold isn’t throwing passes into triple coverage because he’s sad Jamal left.  Injuries aren’t happening left and right because Jamal is gone.  The defense isn’t struggling to stop the underneath passing game because the Safety that can’t cover is gone.

For the record, I was the first to predict that they don’t win a game, 2 weeks ago.  You’re preaching to the choir there.

the fact that Adams can't cover is germane to the argument we agree he can't cover - preaching to the choir

and also if the Jets are a patient they are certainly bleeding from multiple grievous wounds 

Adams is not the only reason they suck, and Darnold playing like cack will make any defense quit after a while 

***

but if we look at the timeline of events, the Adams trade was the first terrible event of 2020 and it started the spiral downward

the fans interpreted the move as a win but it made the roster worse and it kept getting worse. 

i'll say it again Football is about momentum. 

re: the bold statement, yes they are absolutely related. CJ Mosely took the year off. all these guys hamstrings would be healthier if they were Kansas City Chiefs. Players can find a way to play. Or not.

They aren't going to risk their body for a team that treats their All Pro's like rentals.  Everyone based Osemele, but why should he play through a torn labrum without a contract? Honestly?   

yes the Jets are far worse starting 'Business Decision Bradley' and these bums than if they had paid their good players like Jamal and Robby and KO and Andre Roberts and Demario Davis etc etc but don't worry they have tens of millions of cap space instead 

there are good players that come through this program they just don't stay here very long 

and I haven't even mentioned what a compromised CFB season does to these draft picks we all adore so much 

the college players need these games to develop 

all things being equal, both 5 star preps etc, the dude who played 13 games develops more than a guy who plays 7 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Adams is the most overrated player in the nfl

Very easily.

[New York Mick]

They’re 3-0. Let it go guys. Adams can’t hurt you anymore. 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Garbage time skews these stats on both sides

Garbage time vs the Jets makes the D looks better because the other team is running backups and just trying to bleed clock 

Garbage time vs the Seahawks (Atl week 1) makes their D look worse because the other team is down 28-11 late 3q and they are playing prevent 

 

 

Except Seattle was not playing prevent in any of those games if you watched them, out of three games only one of them did they have a big lead at half.

This logic above of yours says at the end of the year the best team should be dead last by 500 yards because they just play prevent.  Bullocks and nonsense.  Seattle is getting killed in the secondary in part because they are using jamal like they used him here which totally exposes your secondary.  Also when jamal was asked to cover he just got destroyed.

[Lurker89]

51 minutes ago, bitonti said:

worst Jets team in history

ya heard it hear first 

I mean yeah I agree with you I'm just not all that upset about it at this point.

Jamal was dubious rapscallion I'd rather not cheer for.... even if he helps elevate the team into mediocrity and gets us from 0-4/6 wins. It wasn't the place to allocate the resources ... it wasn't meant to be .... And still our fortunes will probably remain the same.

The line between tragedy and comedy is a fun one to flirt with. Laugh with me Bit it's funny. We think we hit the bottom and the bottom falls out and there are screams of pain and howl's of fear as we reach depths no one knew were possible, it's hilarious.

I didn't think at this point I'd feel like Sam was a complete bust.... But I kind of do... Let's burn our idols and warm ourselves by the embers.

Let's enjoy howling at the moon while the Jets fortunes never change.

On the positive side we may get to burn Gase at the stake before Sam.... That will be fun.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

5 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I think Marcus Maye sucks too.

https://www.sisdatahub.com/leaderboards/CB

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

The difference is, most people who defended Sam before the season unfolded have admitted they were wrong at this point.  You now have tangible evidence spanning 2 different teams that Jamal sucks in coverage and is nothing more than a run stuffing luxury player that has almost zero impact on wins and losses, and yet you can’t admit you were wrong.

Remember when people said Jamal would flourish in Seattle, because of all the Safeties that had succeeded there previously?

lulz.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

https://www.sisdatahub.com/leaderboards/CB

Interesting--do they explain how they chart/score things somewhere? I couldn't find it.

[RocketBills]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Remember when people said Jamal would flourish in Seattle, because of all the Safeties that had succeeded there previously?

lulz.

No different than when people said Darnold was a franchise QB in the making.  You win some, you lose some.  Just remember to dream big and never give up!!!

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

53 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Interesting--do they explain how they chart/score things somewhere? I couldn't find it.

It's buried in the blog entries, which is super annoying. And of course no individual player statistics are really all that great. I just think Maye probably isn't terrible. That site has good snap count splits and pass rush numbers.

[Bleedin Green]

7 hours ago, bitonti said:

but that's not the worst part

somehow watching fellow fans use passing yard stats to try to prove that 1) seahawks sux 2) maye is the same as adams

that's the worst part 

 

So the worst part is your complete lack of any reading comprehension whatsoever?  At least everything makes far more sense now.

[bitonti]

20 hours ago, Lurker89 said:

I mean yeah I agree with you I'm just not all that upset about it at this point.

Jamal was dubious rapscallion I'd rather not cheer for.... even if he helps elevate the team into mediocrity and gets us from 0-4/6 wins. It wasn't the place to allocate the resources ... it wasn't meant to be .... And still our fortunes will probably remain the same.

Marcus Maye has missed 6 tackles in the last 2 games

I don't mind watching them lose. The losing was always going to happen

this idea that 0 wins is better than 4-6 wins that's what drives me insane 

[choon328]

The reason Jamal has a groin injury is bc he's constantly chasing WR's from behind. 

[Lurker89]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Marcus Maye has missed 6 tackles in the last 2 games

I don't mind watching them lose. The losing was always going to happen

this idea that 0 wins is better than 4-6 wins that's what drives me insane 

No one said better.

4 wins is atrocious but technically better than 0. 6 wins is technically 6 wins better than 0 but leaves us in the same no man's land draft position we seem to love. We'd still be a barely watchable band of losers and the laughing stock of the league par usual at either of those win totals. 

As we know watching a 4 win team week after week is pretty unbearable.

Honestly though I don't think having the top pick for the top prospect matters, at least not for us, we were gifted Sam and it hasn't panned out. Picking the right players matters, having a manageable organization who can set said players up for success matters.  Mahomes was the 10th pick in 2017 not the first pick so... Whatever.

Do we the fans deserve an 0-16 season ... no.

Do the Johnson Bros and Adam Gase deserve an 0-16 season ... yes.

Is Joe partially to blame ... For sure. But he gets 2021 before I lump him in with the rest.

The organization reaps what is sows... I see very little sign of it getting significantly better any time soon. It seems you and I will be here rain or shine though.