Hael Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 PFF has Berrios and Crowder at like 68-69, which is a respectable grade. Hogan has two bad games and one good game, and is doing better than you might expect going up against CB1s when he’s a backup wr, and Cager had good reps. It’s really the TEs and Perriman that are bringing the skill position score down. This is far from good or even avg, but it’s not as terrible as it might seem and could have been far worse. Most of these guys are bubble players on any other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: Nah! Good Jets fans with high standards....even if I disagree that they have an otherworldly ability to assess a QB on a team this dysfunctional. We have 29 games of data on Darnold. Not just 3. In the NFL, in 2020, that's more than enough time to determine if you have a FQB or not. It's never been easier to be a QB, and you know a lot sooner than ever before whether a guy can cut it or not. Hope is all Darnold supporters have. Not one scrap of data available says he's secretly good, and even dating back to his USC days there was a strong amount of data to suggest he wouldn't BE good. There are very, very few QB's in NFL history who sucked for 2-3 seasons and then the lightbulb went on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreekJet Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Isn’t 75 percent of the Gase offense WR screens? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: We have 29 games of data on Darnold. Not just 3. In the NFL, in 2020, that's more than enough time to determine if you have a FQB or not. It's never been easier to be a QB, and you know a lot sooner than ever before whether a guy can cut it or not. Hope is all Darnold supporters have. Not one scrap of data available says he's secretly good, and even dating back to his USC days there was a strong amount of data to suggest he wouldn't BE good. There are very, very few QB's in NFL history who sucked for 2-3 seasons and then the lightbulb went on. I read somewhere alex smith is the only one to play as bad as sam has in his first 2 years and was able to turn it around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOJ Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, choon328 said: Darnold is worse than you think though. here arre some stats for you to digest: HC record 7-12. we have been outscored by 57 pts. 32 in pts per game at an astounding 12.3 32 in total yards per game 31 in passing BTW - in the 12 losses we have lost by 10 or more points! Not enough, ever stat posted above is worse then 2019 except for passing which was 29th. Lack of coaching and scheme is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 31 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said: We have the 4th best group of receivers in the entire league! Exactly............. Who in their RIGHT MIND Believes this??????? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: We have 29 games of data on Darnold. Not just 3. In the NFL, in 2020, that's more than enough time to determine if you have a FQB or not. It's never been easier to be a QB, and you know a lot sooner than ever before whether a guy can cut it or not. Hope is all Darnold supporters have. Aren't we all Darnold supporters? I mean don't we all want to see him succeed while at the same time always looking for an upgrade? Team first, right? Quote Not one scrap of data available says he's secretly good, and even dating back to his USC days there was a strong amount of data to suggest he wouldn't BE good. There are very, very few QB's in NFL history who sucked for 2-3 seasons and then the lightbulb went on. But for the ones who were good (and it wasn't obvious that they were) it's typically because they sat on dysfunctional teams early in their careers. Steve Young turned out pretty good, but it wasn't obvious to anyone when he was wasting away on the trainwreck that was the Tampa Bay Bucs. Put him on a good rosters (49ers) with a great coach (Walsh) and voila! Super Bowl MVP. No, I'm not saying that's what Sam can become. But I am saying it would be nice to see the guy have just one single season with an average NFL roster and better coaching. Most people said that Darnold was drafted onto a bad team in 2018 with less than average coaching. His trajectory seemed good at the end of 2018. The roster and coaching has inexplicably gotten worse, not better, since then. I can't put Mario Andretti behind the wheel of a Yugo with two flat tires and expect him to win the Indy 500. It's fair to want to see Darnold in a better situation, and if he's only incrementally better then the Jets know to move on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckkieB Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: Not one single metric suggests Sam Darnold is secretly good. No one can twist any of them to suggest he is. The stats certainly don't support Sam, but I think the circumstances, as have been widely discussed here, haven't helped it at all and have in fact hurt him badly, and that is why I'm not willing to give up on him just yet. However, as much as I've been a Sam homer, my confidence in him is at it's lowest point. He needs to start consistently executing his share of the offense and making high level decisions to the point where it would be obvious to even the casual observer that Sam is good and that he's just playing on a team of bums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Augustiniak said: So the jets wrs, who are widely regarded as the worst in the nfl, are somehow measured to get the 4th most separation of all wr groups in the nfl? This contention doesn’t pass the eye test. Berrios, hogan and Malone aren’t the 4th best at separating from dbs. It’s a joke. Bingo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: Not one single metric suggests Sam Darnold is secretly good. No one can twist any of them to suggest he is. Do you enjoy bashing and hating Darnold? You do it every chance you get it seems. I think everyone knows that you think he stinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Also, when you're getting killed - where the game is over by the second quarter...teams move more into prevent defenses...allowing for more separation. It's why analytics in football are stupid. Just too many variables. Jets WR's are awful, no stat will make them better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 So, I vaguely remember someone posting a stat like this last year to defend our WRs early in the year and I also vaguely remember writing this: Gase calls more plays that are short of the sticks on 3rd and long than any play-caller I have ever seen. We have thrown a lot of passes near, at, or behind the LOS. I would love to see this stat adjusted for WR screens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hael Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, slimjasi said: I would love to see this stat adjusted for WR screens. Rollouts are another big one. You get a lot more time to separate, and the separation can be on the opposite side of the field, further jilting the stat. Hogan, Berrios and Crowder are also typically the types of wrs that are quicker rather than faster, so they can sometimes have a pretty large amount of initial separation, but the db then closes on them rapidly. So if the QB hits them on time, it looks like they're wide open, but really they're open for a very short period of time. That's why it can be a very misleading stat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, jetstream23 said: Aren't we all Darnold supporters? I mean don't we all want to see him succeed while at the same time always looking for an upgrade? Team first, right? Fine, Darnold "believers" instead. You know what I meant. People who are ready to move on from Darnold vs people who still think he can be the Jets' franchise QB. All Jets fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, johnnysd said: Do you enjoy bashing and hating Darnold? You do it every chance you get it seems. I think everyone knows that you think he stinks And I think everyone knows you're a homer. This thread is about how our WR's are getting separation (allegedly) which is not a good look for Darnold. If you're uncomfortable with that, click a different thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 I don't know why we even need Crowder, Perriman or Mims back when our receivers are getting so much separation already. Just trade the rest away for draft capital. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Fine, Darnold "believers" instead. You know what I meant. People who are ready to move on from Darnold vs people who still think he can be the Jets' franchise QB. All Jets fans. We are all victims here. All of us fans. And we all want this team to win. How we get there is a fun debate amongst fans but our opinions have 0.00001% influence on what happens with this team's roster. Whether someone wants Darnold, doesn't want him, thinks there's hope or thinks she's shot.... the only opinion that matters will be Joe Douglas (as long as Douglas is still the GM.....uhhh....Is he still the GM? I haven't refreshed Twitter in the last 10 minutes) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Augustiniak said: So the jets wrs, who are widely regarded as the worst in the nfl, are somehow measured to get the 4th most separation of all wr groups in the nfl? This contention doesn’t pass the eye test. Berrios, hogan and Malone aren’t the 4th best at separating from dbs. It’s a joke. Watch the All 22. These guys are getting open consistently. Darnold is not finding the open WR. He's a mess right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said: When your relying on Cynthia Freulnd to support your case you're already lost. Stats Stats Stats can be twisted any which way you want to argue any situation. Agreed...the stats skank is really not the place to look for the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 minute ago, section314 said: Agreed...the stats skank is really not the place to look for the answers. Except these stats didn't come directly from her. They came from Next Gen Stats, which have had some usefulness. She was essentially just re-tweeting it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: Except these stats didn't come directly from her. They came from Next Gen Stats, which have had some usefulness. I think Berrios is a keeper. If/when Mims and Perriman ever grace us again with their presence, I think he should be in the mix. Sam seems to be establishing a nice chemistry with him. The two TD passes came on plays where Sam is running for his life, and Berrios got to an open space. That stuff you don't coach, it comes from the players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, section314 said: I think Berrios is a keeper. If/when Mims and Perriman ever grace us again with their presence, I think he should be in the mix. Sam seems to be establishing a nice chemistry with him. The two TD passes came on plays where Sam is running for his life, and Berrios got to an open space. That stuff you don't coach, it comes from the players. Berrios could make Crowder expendable. Crowder is due $10.5M next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 same thing happened last year... Sam bots claim our receivers aren't open... nextgen says, except they are... sambots say fake news.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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