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My 5 Takeaways from Jets vs Broncos


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Just now, JTJet said:

I counted 8 throws that were just misses. 6 dropped passes. 5 that NFL quality recievers would have caught with more effort/talent. 

Sam not absolved of blame, but last night was the best example yet of the lack of talent around this kid. When he was throwing to the two legit NFL talents we had (Crowder/Smith) they caught mostly everything, which makes the situation more obvious. 

Herndon alone had 2 drops and he is supposed to be a safety net. 

Aikman distinctly pointed out what most of us could see in game... Sam Darnold has no weapons or help.

- No running game. 

- No tight end. 

- 2 WRs that can make plays.

- O Line allowed sacks 6 times for 65 yards.

- Defense that allows 37 to Brett Rypien. 

This kid is doomed every single time he walks on the field.

Very fair and well done post.  I agree that the receivers were mostly awful, too.  All I'm saying is that weapons or not, Darnold missed a lot of throws.   He should be better with (can't believe I'm typing this) ball placement.

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3 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I counted 8 throws that were just misses. 6 dropped passes. 5 that NFL quality recievers would have caught with more effort/talent. 

Sam not absolved of blame, but last night was the best example yet of the lack of talent around this kid. When he was throwing to the two legit NFL talents we had (Crowder/Smith) they caught mostly everything, which makes the situation more obvious. 

Herndon alone had 2 drops and he is supposed to be a safety net. 

Aikman distinctly pointed out what most of us could see in game... Sam Darnold has no weapons or help.

- No running game. 

- No tight end. 

- 2 WRs that can make plays.

- O Line allowed sacks 6 times for 65 yards.

- Defense that allows 37 to Brett Rypien. 

This kid is doomed every single time he walks on the field.

Good points. I didn’t watch the game except in snippets but it was clear the only receiver darnold has faith in is crowder. And crowder didn’t disappoint.  The guy knows how to catch and battle with cbs.  Smith was a bright spot too.

imo the main problem is still oline play. Losing Becton didn’t help but this group has had trouble all season. They need to play better together. This takes time and reps.

as for the defense, there’s not much to say. The penalties indicate the group is undisciplined. Some penalties can be excused at times like off sides. But roughing penalties are rough. Those are pretty much due to a pass rush that is always a step late.  They need a pass rush and the blitzes they used last season aren’t working very well at the moment.  The secondary may have more physical talent but they are out of position and just not covering very well. Desir was picked on.

hard to see how they dig out of this hole. The really frustrating thing is that even though their schedule was supposed to be tough, I really haven’t seen any of the opponents being dominating teams.  They were all winnable just not by the way the jets are playing.

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4 minutes ago, JTJet said:

For sure. He deserves some blame I agree. I just get the feeling from watching the kid that he does have "IT" and I think he deserves the chance to operate an offense with some real players. 

I would almost bet a years worth of salary that if we let him go to another NFL club, he becomes an all star. 

No disrespect, but I just don't believe in Darnold.   I've said it before and can't quantify it, but he just does not look right to me, especially when things start to go wrong.

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27 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

No disrespect, but I just don't believe in Darnold.   I've said it before and can't quantify it, but he just does not look right to me, especially when things start to go wrong.

It’s a fair assessment. I want to still believe, but i think he’s shell shocked at this point.

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51 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I counted 8 throws that were just misses. 6 dropped passes. 5 that NFL quality recievers would have caught with more effort/talent. 

Sam not absolved of blame, but last night was the best example yet of the lack of talent around this kid. When he was throwing to the two legit NFL talents we had (Crowder/Smith) they caught mostly everything, which makes the situation more obvious. 

Herndon alone had 2 drops and he is supposed to be a safety net. 

Aikman distinctly pointed out what most of us could see in game... Sam Darnold has no weapons or help.

- No running game. 

- No tight end. 

- 2 WRs that can make plays.

- O Line allowed sacks 6 times for 65 yards.

- Defense that allows 37 to Brett Rypien. 

This kid is doomed every single time he walks on the field.

You forgot no coaching help.

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O-Line wasn't good (but lots of injuries, so it's to be expected), but Darnold holds the ball for way too long now. Might be that the receivers aren't getting open (but I've seen some shots where there are receivers open but Darnold isn't seeing them). Feels like Darnold is overthinking and a bit gun-shy /shell shocked.

I cannot believe Becton played last night. If he wasn't able to start, there is no way he should have been on the field. He's a rookie trying to help his team, and he shouldn't be the one letting the doctors and coaches know that he's too hurt to play. They knew enough not to start him. 

That and 0-4 start alone should be enough to move on from Gase. Darnold's regressing badly and getting no help from the coaches. The Jets are playing their injured rookies and their defense gave up 37 points to a 3rd string rookie qb who also threw 3 picks. Broncos punted one time and scored on 7 different drives. The Jets defense was worse than the Jets offense and honestly has been just as bad all season long in the first half.

1st half defense

Bills: 3 TDs allowed, 2 Fumble recoveries 

49ers: 3 TDs allowed, 1 punt forced

Colts: 1 TD allowed, 1 Field Goal allowed, 1 Missed Field Goal, 1 punt forced (also 1 pick 6)

Broncos: 2 TDs allowed, 1 field goal allowed, 1 interception

The Jets have forced 2 first half punts through 4 games. 

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1 hour ago, JTJet said:

I counted 8 throws that were just misses. 6 dropped passes. 5 that NFL quality recievers would have caught with more effort/talent. 

Sam not absolved of blame, but last night was the best example yet of the lack of talent around this kid. When he was throwing to the two legit NFL talents we had (Crowder/Smith) they caught mostly everything, which makes the situation more obvious. 

Herndon alone had 2 drops and he is supposed to be a safety net. 

Aikman distinctly pointed out what most of us could see in game... Sam Darnold has no weapons or help.

- No running game. 

- No tight end. 

- 2 WRs that can make plays.

- O Line allowed sacks 6 times for 65 yards.

- Defense that allows 37 to Brett Rypien. 

This kid is doomed every single time he walks on the field.

But its all his fault.....and he STILL is one of the youngest starting QB's in the league.

But we should tank for Trevor

This fan base now seems to believe the following:

1) Cheer for high-priced Free agents

2) Denounce every draft pick

3) Complain when we get extra draft picks

4) Denounce the starting QB with little help

5) Hope to get the 1st overall pick and get a QB who won't get any help.

6) Repeat steps 1-5

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I would like to see a breakdown of Darnold’s incompletions-drops, misses and good defense.  He is inconsistent.  

The coaching is just terrible.  

The Jets and Broncos May have been two bad no win teams, but it was not a bad football game to watch.  The Broncos have so much more talent than the Jets do.  Chubb, Harris, Callahan, Justin, Cushenberry, Glasgow, Bolles, Gordon, Jeudy, Patrick, others.  

The NFL or NFLPA should shut down the Jets medical program.  Why is Darnold playing with a sprained shoulder?  Why put Becton in, so the rookie can take himself out?

Josina asked if there were FA issues with Bowles.  His FAs were just as terrible.  Not the same injury issue though. 

Gase needs to go. 

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

Good points. I didn’t watch the game except in snippets but it was clear the only receiver darnold has faith in is crowder. And crowder didn’t disappoint.  The guy knows how to catch and battle with cbs.  Smith was a bright spot too.

imo the main problem is still oline play. Losing Becton didn’t help but this group has had trouble all season. They need to play better together. This takes time and reps.

as for the defense, there’s not much to say. The penalties indicate the group is undisciplined. Some penalties can be excused at times like off sides. But roughing penalties are rough. Those are pretty much due to a pass rush that is always a step late.  They need a pass rush and the blitzes they used last season aren’t working very well at the moment.  The secondary may have more physical talent but they are out of position and just not covering very well. Desir was picked on.

hard to see how they dig out of this hole. The really frustrating thing is that even though their schedule was supposed to be tough, I really haven’t seen any of the opponents being dominating teams.  They were all winnable just not by the way the jets are playing.

Some were clear late hits but the first roughing call on Q was BS especially after Sam had gotten suplexed and didn't get a flag. The one that really got me was when Mann was run into no flag and Jets got two flags on the play as the Punting team. Would not have been a 1st down but at least they could have re-kicked

I was convinced Boger had the Broncos ML first half.  

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25 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Some were clear late hits but the first roughing call on Q was BS especially after Sam had gotten suplexed and didn't get a flag. The one that really got me was when Mann was run into no flag and Jets got two flags on the play as the Punting team. Would not have been a 1st down but at least they could have re-kicked

I was convinced Boger had the Broncos ML first half.  

Yes darnold basically got slammed down and the refs did nothing.  I didn’t watch most of the game but it’s not a good sign when teams get a lot of personal fouls. Maybe they were all trying to retaliate but most likely they were trying too hard and were a half step too slow.

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Desir was not all bad , even other than the ints.  He was right there on every play and got his hands on two of the tds, he just did not finish he play.

Little things make a difference in a game.  Desir tips one ball with his finger tips and the guy catchs the td  (this wsa not he jeudy pay).  Later in the game a very similar play for us where the denver guy tips it, out receiver cannot make the catch.

Also, we have a real problem at tight end.  Some of us on here were not sold on one guy coming off a terrible injury who just does not look the same at all and herndon who was unreliable last year.

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12 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Yes darnold basically got slammed down and the refs did nothing.  I didn’t watch most of the game but it’s not a good sign when teams get a lot of personal fouls. Maybe they were all trying to retaliate but most likely they were trying too hard and were a half step too slow.

I mean there was some nonsense at the end of the game where Gase calls a TO, then on 4th down instead of the Broncos simply kneeling and turning the ball over on downs got cute and tried to run a pass play where Rypien throws it high in the air to try and run out the clock. I know if I was the Dline I would have hit Rypien too regardless of what Gase did in past years or with the TO, to me Fangio got what he deserved there and put his QB in harms way. One other roughing call IMO was borderline , it was when their QB ran he starts to slide as the Jets defender hits him with his shoulder . I know if that was Darnold there would have been no flag thrown. 

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2 hours ago, JTJet said:

For sure. He deserves some blame I agree. I just get the feeling from watching the kid that he does have "IT" and I think he deserves the chance to operate an offense with some real players. 

I would almost bet a years worth of salary that if we let him go to another NFL club, he becomes an all star. 

I sure hope they do let him go because that will be my new team.

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1 hour ago, BCJet said:

I felt that for this first time this season, Darnold got into something of a rhythm.  Yes, he missed throws all night and last he game wore on, he held the ball too long, and took too many sacks, but for a time before the shoulder injury he didnt seem to be as affected by the rush (deer in headlights) as he had before.

What makes it hard for everyone to evaluate him is that each play in football affects the next play - its more blackjack then poker.    Aside from the fact that he has  never looked into the huddle and seen actual weapons, but when has Sam EVER got to play with a lead?  When has he ever had the run game going along with a coach who knows that play action is a thing?

The kid is constantly down 14, with a coach who has no clue and a defense who doesnt have to respect anyone and can literally tee off on him.

This season is lost, but I hope after the bye we can get Mims and Becton back, along with Jeff Smith and possibly develop some level of talent around him so we can accurately evaluate him.

How do you accurately evaluate him in a Gase run offense?

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4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I mean there was some nonsense at the end of the game where Gase calls a TO, then on 4th down instead of the Broncos simply kneeling and turning the ball over on downs got cute and tried to run a pass play where Rypien throws it high in the air to try and run out the clock. I know if I was the Dline I would have hit Rypien too regardless of what Gase did in past years or with the TO, to me Fangio got what he deserved there and put his QB in harms way. One other roughing call IMO was borderline , it was when their QB ran he starts to slide as the Jets defender hits him with his shoulder . I know if that was Darnold there would have been no flag thrown. 

I hear you.  I hope when the jets review the tape they understand that the body slam of darnold was bad and they bring it to the leagues attention.

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3 hours ago, JTJet said:

I counted 8 throws that were just misses. 6 dropped passes. 5 that NFL quality recievers would have caught with more effort/talent. 

Sam not absolved of blame, but last night was the best example yet of the lack of talent around this kid. When he was throwing to the two legit NFL talents we had (Crowder/Smith) they caught mostly everything, which makes the situation more obvious. 

Herndon alone had 2 drops and he is supposed to be a safety net. 

Aikman distinctly pointed out what most of us could see in game... Sam Darnold has no weapons or help.

- No running game. 

- No tight end. 

- 2 WRs that can make plays.

- O Line allowed sacks 6 times for 65 yards.

- Defense that allows 37 to Brett Rypien. 

This kid is doomed every single time he walks on the field.

This is why Darnold starts next year under the new coach while Trevor learns the ropes. 

One of two things happens. He turns it around and gives the Jets leverage to trade one or the other, or flops again, so we can continue to draft high to populate talent around Trev.

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2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

But its all his fault.....and he STILL is one of the youngest starting QB's in the league.

But we should tank for Trevor

This fan base now seems to believe the following:

1) Cheer for high-priced Free agents

2) Denounce every draft pick

3) Complain when we get extra draft picks

4) Denounce the starting QB with little help

5) Hope to get the 1st overall pick and get a QB who won't get any help.

6) Repeat steps 1-5

This

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5 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

*Adam Gase* unfortunately would get the boot this week, I seriously question if that will happen mid season. Johnson's have never fired a coach mid season. Pro, means it's likely #1 pick for us - Negative, we likely don't see much from Sam unless he pretends not to hear the play calls like Aaron Rodgers.

Our next hope is probably the Week 11 bye, unfortunately.

I hope I'm wrong and they fire him well before that.

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7 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Very fair and well done post.  I agree that the receivers were mostly awful, too.  All I'm saying is that weapons or not, Darnold missed a lot of throws.   He should be better with (can't believe I'm typing this) ball placement.

Kind of agree with what I think Aikman said, he just looks like he’s trying too hard, he’s trying to do it all himself, make something happen, force things....he’s very rarely got any sort of separation from his receivers and so almost always has to throw into tight coverage to try and force something to happen.
Then there’s the contrast between opposing QB’s having all day back there without any hint of pressure on them and Sam having to get rid of it instantly, he’s almost always under intense pressure immediately.
Sure he’s had a couple of inextricable cases where he’s not pulled the trigger and hit an open guy (the Crowder sideline pass v BUF and last night when Cager was open across the middle)....I just think he’s putting everything on his back and trying too hard and then on top of that his confidence is shot.
That said, there’s no question he’s had some some wildly inaccurate throws and he’s particularly poor throwing deep. 

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5 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Sonny's top 10 takeaways (in no particular order):

1) Van Roten is Rotten;

2) Why can't Gase lean on Bell like he does Gore;

3) Why do receivers seem surprised when Sam throws back shoulder;

4) It is getting late early for Herndon;

5) Does Gase's playbook have any outside runs? May I suggest he add a toss sweep for Perrine;

6) The tackling on the special team kick and punt coverage is pretty awful;

7) Q - I have no idea if he will ever put it all together. But, if, and when, this kid becomes a man. He will be a force to be reckoned with.  

😎 Sam is just not right. He vacillates between a QB who makes stupid risky throws and one that is gun shy and will not pull the trigger when he sees a WR with a step. I actually don't mind the occasional risky throw so long it is not inside either 30 yard line or late with a small lead. Sam needs to have swagger to be successful. Jesus, he is Dick Hammer's grandkid. He was born for this. I feel like the offensive coaching staff wants him to be a game manager. He's not. The Jets may give up on Darnold, but very little of this is his fault. He has not been given the tools for success and his guidance is against his mental makeup and abilities. Give him to any of the myriad of other coaches who understand how to play to a QBs strengths and he would be doing just fine. 

9) I was thinking of saying fire the CB coach because c'mon as a position group how can they all (with the exception of the veteran Poole) be this bad? Then I thought, who is the CB coach? So, I looked it up. Denard Wilson is doing double duty as the CB coach and PASSING GAME COORDINATOR. This leads me to conclude that Denard must have some compromising pictures of CJ, WJ and/or JD. Seriously, is there any coach in ALL of professional sports who is having worse results than the Jets' CB coach and Passing Game Coordinator;

10) Finally, as much as I dislike Gase because he is not a Head Coach, is uninspiring and is the worse play caller this side of Paul Hackett, it is unfair to judge him on the performance of the O with the #1 LT, #2 LT. #1 WR, #2 WR, and #1 RB all out with injuries. When they return and Gase still sucks, then we can fairly judge him as not only NOT a brilliant offensive mind, but actually a pretty terrible one. While the D poor performance is on GW, Gase is the HC and responsible for the WHOLE team even though he only pays attention to the game while the O is on the field and the penalties and sloppiness are on him as well. I remember reading once that the HC is the "Coach of the Coaches". Does anyone think Gase is "coaching" GW, or any other assistant on the team? And, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it, but you know how so many young QB's are criticized for their sideline body language. Does anyone watch Gase's body language on the sideline and feel confident that he knows what he's doing? Heck, it looks like he is completely unsure of everything, constantly revising his play sheet and looking panicky in the process.

Excellent post and totally agree on Gase...he has a very legitimate argument to say ‘what the he’ll am I supposed to do with this?’ But at the same time his play-calling & body language are shocking....he’s an over-promoted OC (and it remains questionable if he’s any good at that) and all he seems to care about is his playcalls...his beloved sheet that he studies and annotates and amends and ponders and plots the next fiendishly effective call of Gore into the pile for no gain....meanwhile there’s a ballgame going on and a team that needs fkn leadership, direction, coaching, cajoling, encouraging.....b*llocking

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5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Desir was not all bad , even other than the ints.  He was right there on every play and got his hands on two of the tds, he just did not finish he play.

Little things make a difference in a game.  Desir tips one ball with his finger tips and the guy catchs the td  (this wsa not he jeudy pay).  Later in the game a very similar play for us where the denver guy tips it, out receiver cannot make the catch.

Also, we have a real problem at tight end.  Some of us on here were not sold on one guy coming off a terrible injury who just does not look the same at all and herndon who was unreliable last year.

Good post...what the hell is the point of Daniel Brown btw?....we are carrying 4 TE’s and yet we don’t even use the notional No 1 or 2....Wesco shows up well as a blocker and for all we know, might have some ability as a receiver if we ever get a chance to see.

Brown is an absolute non-entity playing a position the team doesn’t use anyway.....surely that roster spot could be better utilised elsewhere 

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6 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

But its all his fault.....and he STILL is one of the youngest starting QB's in the league.

But we should tank for Trevor

This fan base now seems to believe the following:

1) Cheer for high-priced Free agents

2) Denounce every draft pick

3) Complain when we get extra draft picks

4) Denounce the starting QB with little help

5) Hope to get the 1st overall pick and get a QB who won't get any help.

6) Repeat steps 1-5

Yup it would be much better to go the mark sanchez route and pay a guy who clearly hasnt proven to be a top 20 qb in the nfl. 

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7 hours ago, JTJet said:

I counted 8 throws that were just misses. 6 dropped passes. 5 that NFL quality recievers would have caught with more effort/talent. 

Sam not absolved of blame, but last night was the best example yet of the lack of talent around this kid. When he was throwing to the two legit NFL talents we had (Crowder/Smith) they caught mostly everything, which makes the situation more obvious. 

Herndon alone had 2 drops and he is supposed to be a safety net. 

Aikman distinctly pointed out what most of us could see in game... Sam Darnold has no weapons or help.

- No running game. 

- No tight end. 

- 2 WRs that can make plays.

- O Line allowed sacks 6 times for 65 yards.

- Defense that allows 37 to Brett Rypien. 

This kid is doomed every single time he walks on the field.

and 10 thats right 10 QB hits....

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5 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

When they return and Gase still sucks, then we can fairly judge him as not only NOT a brilliant offensive mind, but actually a pretty terrible one.

But even with the injuries you can judge Gase based on how he makes in game adjustments, on how he utilizes player's strengths- specifically Darnold but also players who are healthy and available. His general lack of creativity when that is exactly what the Jets need offensively. His lack of leadership, which is evident from the way teams steamroll the Jets from the get-go. With Gase you don't need a healthy roster to tell he is a bad coach.  

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Jets need to do the following after a 1-15 or 0-16 finish this season:

1) Fire Gase and coaching Staff.

2) Hire Competent HC and Staff

3) Trade Darnold once TLaw declares for the Draft.

4) Draft TLaw (If he doesn't declare then keep Darnold and trade #1 pick for haul of picks)

5) Use rest of draft picks on OLine, WRs and CBs (NO MORE DLs or RBs)

6) Get best available Edge rusher in free agency.

LL

 

 

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1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Yup it would be much better to go the mark sanchez route and pay a guy who clearly hasnt proven to be a top 20 qb in the nfl. 

Yup...You mean the one who was one of the top QB prospects in the last 5-7 years, but has had the worst O-line, no running game, no WR's, and no offensive genius at the helm creating a great game plan?

I am SURE Trevor Lawrence will do better.  So will the QB we draft in 2024, and then 2027, and then 2030, and then....

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