IMHO Sam Darnold played pretty good last night

[playtowinthegame]

He showed some toughness too coming back from that body slam on his throwing shoulder. Most of us thought that was a broken collarbone. Darnold didn't play great, but he showed us some flashes of how good this kid can be.

The Jets offensive line play is not good to put it lightly, but there is still hope the offensive line play improves enough to become good enough to allow Darnold time to show us what he really can do. Get our receivers healthy. Get Le'Veon Bell back. Let's see what Gase can draw up with more options to take advantage of matchups.

I'm looking forward to the 2nd quarter of the season, because the first quarter was was atrocious like preseason. We have too many new pieces on the O-Line to be able to skip preseason. Then throw in all the injuries with a team that lacks the depth due to Mike Maccagnan's gross mismanagement/negligence during free agency and the draft, and it's no surprise the Jets produced 0 wins in the first quarter of the season.

 

 

 

 

 

@nico002

 

[peekskill68]

Your comments are fair. The question I would ask is whether you feel confident that Douglas can assess what Darnold is if Gase is running the offense?   We are in the Lawrence derby right now.  If Darnold can win, JD may be holding a golden lottery ticket for alot of picks to rebuild the team.  If Darnold really is this bad, and it's not Gase, JD needs to know now...

[JiFtheOracle]

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

Your comments are fair. The question I would ask is whether you feel confident that Douglas can assess what Darnold is if Gase is running the offense?   We are in the Lawrence derby right now.  If Darnold can win, JD may be holding a golden lottery ticket for alot of picks to rebuild the team.  If Darnold really is this bad, and it's not Gase, JD needs to know now...

If Darnold is the guy, and we got the golden ticket to use to build around Darnold, that would be the fastest to contender status scenario.

[deucebag]

9 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

He showed some toughness too coming back from that body slam on his throwing shoulder. Most of us thought that was a broken collarbone. Darnold didn't play great, but he showed us some flashes of how good this kid can be.

The Jets offensive line play is not good to put it lightly, but there is still hope the offensive line play improves enough to become good enough to allow Darnold time to show us what he really can do. Get our receivers healthy. Get Le'Veon Bell back. Let's see what Gase can draw up with more options to take advantage of matchups.

I'm looking forward to the 2nd quarter of the season, because the first quarter was was atrocious like preseason. We have too many new pieces on the O-Line to be able to skip preseason. Then throw in all the injuries with a team that lacks the depth due to Mike Maccagnan's gross mismanagement/negligence during free agency and the draft, and it's no surprise the Jets produced 0 wins in the first quarter of the season.

 

 

 

 

 

@nico002

 

I am of the opinion that Sam undoubtedly has the talent to become a top ten passer in this league - however the window for him to get there (at least with the Jets) is rapidly closing.  I am trending to believe that if we were to end up with the #1 pick in 2021 - Lawrence would demand a trade, so JDs master plan could be all for naught.  Nevertheless, at least we could end up with a historic plethora of draft capital...what JD is able to do with it IDK.   

[peekskill68]

1 minute ago, playtowinthegame said:

If Darnold is the guy, and we got the golden ticket to use to build around Darnold, that would be the fastest to contender status scenario.

I don't think you can assess Darnold accurately with Gase running the offense

[playtowinthegame]

Just now, JiF said:

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

I think it's a little too soon to make that declaration even if you prove to be right. Give Darnold a fair shake this season. Stay open minded. ?

[Gibby]

2 minutes ago, deucebag said:

I am of the opinion that Sam undoubtedly has the talent to become a top ten passer in this league - however the window for him to get there (at least with the Jets) is rapidly closing.  I am trending to believe that if we were to end up with the #1 pick in 2021 - Lawrence would demand a trade, so JDs master plan could be all for naught.  Nevertheless, at least we could end up with a historic plethora of draft capital...what JD is able to do with it IDK.   

Spot on. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

Darnold gives you enough to think he could be a decent qb on a team like the Steelers when Ben retires and he’s got a good coaching staff and supporting cast, but not good enough to really carry a team or come up with the big play on 3rd or 4th down to pull one out like last night.  Darnold can be salvaged as an nfl qb but is not elite.  The jets will likely be taking another qb next year to groom.  

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

He’s a psychological dumpster fire at this point. Just in constant panic mode from the snap. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I absolutely think Sam played about as well as we could've reasonably hoped for, given the circumstances.  It's just an absolute shame that we've surrounded him with just about the worst support system imaginable.  And this for a QB who was younger than the #1 overall pick this year.

My disgust at this franchise is rapidly approaching an all-time high.

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, T0mShane said:

He’s a psychological dumpster fire at this point. Just in constant panic mode from the snap. 

Gee, I wonder why that is.

[Greenseed4]

Sam’s good. But nothing he does seems effortless. 
 

It’s like he tries really hard to be a softer throwing, less accurate Matt Stafford. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Gee, I wonder why that is.

Because he’s a nice, 24 year old kid who probably wasn’t ready to start for an NFL team as a rookie

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Greenseed4 said:

Sam’s good. But nothing he does seems effortless. 
 

It’s like he tries really hard to be a softer throwing, less accurate Matt Stafford. 

How in the world could you ask for "effortless" given the circumstances Sam has been asked to deal with?! 

[deucebag]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

As Troy Boy pointed out, Darnold probably doesn't trust Cager as Cager quit on a route against Indy that led to an INT.   He saw Cager open and then thought nah, too risky.  All the drops and broken route trees thus far this year has caused Darnold nearly as much harm as the lack of protection.   QBs need chemistry and trust with their WRs, if you were Darnold - who on the Jets roster would you trust, other than Crowder.   Herndon obviously does not  put in the effort anymore, I was assuming Griffin was damaged after surgery, but watching him is leading me to believe, he got paid and now he doesn't care and outside of Crowder we do not have another NFL caliber WR on the active roster.  Hogan looks slow and soft now.  Everyone on offense except for Crowder and Gore look like they are playing to not get hurt.

 

One other point, Gase play calling is horrific.   On 4th and 3 near the end of the game, from what I could see, there were four receivers who all went on ten yard patterns - no safety valve!  All we needed was three yards - how about a slant or a rb in the flat???

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Because he’s a nice, 24 year old kid who probably wasn’t ready to start for an NFL team as a rookie

Oh he's too nice?  That's the problem?!  LMAO!

Btw, he's 23.

[JiFtheOracle]

4 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I think it's a little too soon to make that declaration even if you prove to be right. Give Darnold a fair shake this season. Stay open minded. ?

Maybe, you can easily see the difference between what good weaponz can do for you/scheme can do for a QB just watching the performances of the QB's we've faced this season but we've also seen too many examples easy missed plays by Darnold that makes it very challenging to be "open minded".

[Warfish]

Sam Darnold misses too many open receivers, holds the ball too long, has a poor in-pocket-mental-clock, and never seems to throw it away when he should.  Most of the abuse he takes is on him.

He seems like a good kid, and I honestly felt for him last night.  But he simply isn't a good enough QB.

[JiFtheOracle]

9 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Darnold gives you enough to think he could be a decent qb on a team like the Steelers when Ben retires and he’s got a good coaching staff and supporting cast, but not good enough to really carry a team or come up with the big play on 3rd or 4th down to pull one out like last night.  Darnold can be salvaged as an nfl qb but is not elite.  The jets will likely be taking another qb next year to groom.  

Maybe but like TOm points out below, I'm just not sure you can fix it at this point.  Dude is a mess. 

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s a psychological dumpster fire at this point. Just in constant panic mode from the snap. 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

5 minutes ago, deucebag said:

As Troy Boy pointed out, Darnold probably doesn't trust Cager as Cager quit on a route against Indy that led to an INT.   He saw Cager open and then thought nah, too risky.  All the drops and broken route trees thus far this year has caused Darnold nearly as much harm as the lack of protection.   QBs need chemistry and trust with their WRs, if you were Darnold - who on the Jets roster would you trust, other than Crowder.   Herndon obviously does not  put in the effort anymore, I was assuming Griffin was damaged after surgery, but watching him is leading me to believe, he got paid and now he doesn't care and outside of Crowder we do not have another NFL caliber WR on the active roster.  Hogan looks slow and soft now.  Everyone on offense except for Crowder and Gore look like they are playing to not get hurt.

 

One other point, Gase play calling is horrific.   On 4th and 3 near the end of the game, from what I could see, there were four receivers who all went on ten yard patterns - no safety valve!  All we needed was three yards - how about a slant or a rb in the flat???

Look, he's surrounded by the worst talent in the NFL, hands down, bar none, no argument to be made, everything you are saying is real.

That said, it's also looking more and more like he's just not very good.  I agree, trust is a real thing but he's throwing to these guys in a lot of situations that require some degree of trust and then he's not in others?  That's bad, no?   Seems like really bad. 

[The Crusher]

21 minutes ago, JiF said:

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

Boogie Boarder

[PS17]

22 minutes ago, JiF said:

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

If Darnold is indeed finished after this season, what happens next year? Is he a backup to Lawrence/Fields/etc? Do we ship him off to Pittsburgh for a mid round pick? 

[peekskill68]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again when its not working.  Jets have a simple choice (assuming JD isn't being evaluated) - either fire the HC and reassess the losing QB with a new playcaller or bench the QB and see if Gase truly is an offensive genius using Flacco...

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

22 minutes ago, JiF said:

He took an absolute beating an I will give him credit for taking it on the chin and getting back up for more.  

That said, he's absolutely broken and/or was just a bust to begin with.  He left so many plays on the field.  I get his team fails him all the time but that doesnt excuse away the fact he is trigger shy.  The play he got hurt, should have never happened and he once again missed a would be wide open TD (then again, Herndon probably dropped it) on his patent scramble plays.  

Let him finish out the year, bench him and see what Morgan has, whatever, doesnt matter - his time as NY Jet is done after 2020.

 

I was thinking the Cleveland game for Morgan. Outside of that one there isn't much of the back of the schedule to sweat as far as tanking. 

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Maybe but like TOm points out below, I'm just not sure you can fix it at this point.  Dude is a mess. 

 

I think darnold is fixable, but maybe not on the jets and certainly not with gase.

i don’t think this will matter much since the jets are already in a full rebuild and tank.  They have very good draft capital to really overhaul the offense the next 2 years.

the interesting thing will be to see how darnold does when the rest of the wrs return.  Will the additions of mims and v. Smith change the offense, adding enough speed to help get guys open.  That will basically be darnold’s audition for other teams who may want to trade for him when the jets take another qb. 

[Irish Jet]

He showed toughness.

I’d be incluned to put some of the misses on the the shoulder sprain but it’s happened far too often. He hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt. Some of his downfield throws were so had, especially one where Jeff Smith had found some space between defenders.

Made some nice plays with his legs but he was also holding onto the ball far too long. A couple of those were just unacceptable where he could have got the ball out.

Looks completely spooked. 

[varjet]

Darnold had some beautiful deep passes to Robby last year.  Of the 7 wins against an easier schedule, how many did Robby contribute to directly?  At least 2?  

He is not on the team anymore.  

[deucebag]

17 minutes ago, JiF said:

Look, he's surrounded by the worst talent in the NFL, hands down, bar none, no argument to be made, everything you are saying is real.

That said, it's also looking more and more like he's just not very good.  I agree, trust is a real thing but he's throwing to these guys in a lot of situations that require some degree of trust and then he's not in others?  That's bad, no?   Seems like really bad. 

I believe the biggest problem is Sam knows he does not have anyone he can trust in a 50/50 situation - he cannot count on a WR "to make a play".  Consequently he only wants to throw to a WR who has space around him - sometimes he'll try and give a WR a shot at making a play - but when he does the WR always fails him.  You have to wonder if our WRs even have any self confidence?  Look at the play Jeudy made - he didn't give up on the underthrown ball and he made a play - who on the Jets has the ability (or confidence) to do that.  We are fielding an offense littered with scrubs, cast offs and has been's.  The NFL game is fast and you must make fast decisions - Darnold in the last two years has had little if any positive reinforcement from his WRs.  As for bashing Darnold - the brutal beatings he has taken over the last 12 games has changed his overall thought process.  If he were just chucking and ducking (a la Elisha Manning) I'd be more concerned.  He wants to win and succeed, and tries too hard at times to make a play (because losing grows on you), but he has also become scared and apprehensive.  He is thinking too much, trying too hard and no longer relying on instincts.

[maury77]

1 hour ago, deucebag said:

As Troy Boy pointed out, Darnold probably doesn't trust Cager as Cager quit on a route against Indy that led to an INT.   He saw Cager open and then thought nah, too risky.  All the drops and broken route trees thus far this year has caused Darnold nearly as much harm as the lack of protection.   QBs need chemistry and trust with their WRs, if you were Darnold - who on the Jets roster would you trust, other than Crowder.   Herndon obviously does not  put in the effort anymore, I was assuming Griffin was damaged after surgery, but watching him is leading me to believe, he got paid and now he doesn't care and outside of Crowder we do not have another NFL caliber WR on the active roster.  Hogan looks slow and soft now.  Everyone on offense except for Crowder and Gore look like they are playing to not get hurt.

 

One other point, Gase play calling is horrific.   On 4th and 3 near the end of the game, from what I could see, there were four receivers who all went on ten yard patterns - no safety valve!  All we needed was three yards - how about a slant or a rb in the flat???

I agree and we saw this last night. Remember the contested catch Crowder made? Darnold threw that to him because he trusted Crowder to come up with it. Darnold also made 2 similar attempts to Hogan, who didn't come down with it.

[JiFtheOracle]

51 minutes ago, PS17 said:

If Darnold is indeed finished after this season, what happens next year? Is he a backup to Lawrence/Fields/etc? Do we ship him off to Pittsburgh for a mid round pick? 

I cant imagine a scenario where Darnold is on the team. I would assume they trade him for whatever they can get ala Arizona with Rosen.

[Bugg]

Cannot tell if he's terrible or the imbecilic playcalls are at fault. Red zone offense is the same 2 or 3 plays over and over, interspersed with Gore running up the middle for a yard. It's a scared way to pay offense, nothing but dumpoffs all game, in 3rd and long all night. it's asking too much form any QB. I understand the skill guys are dregs but you have to make defenses respect some deep passes. 

What is scary; this has been the institutional memory of the franchise going back to Pennington and then Favre  getting hurt. At a time in the NFL when offense and passing exploded, the jets have going on 2 decades tried to buck the trend, and had it explode in the their faces. You have to be able to pass effectively. Gase clearly has not a clue. WHY IS HE HERE THIS MORNING? 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Cannot tell if he's terrible or the imbecilic playcalls are at fault. Red zone offense is the same 2 or 3 plays over and over, interspersed with Gore running up the middle for a yard. It's a scared way to pay offense, nothing but dumpoffs all game, in 3rd and long all night. it's asking too much form any QB. I understand the skill guys are dregs but you have to make defenses respect some deep passes. 

Rex,bowles and now gase plays for fgs.  Difference was Rex and bowles were defensive coaches who thought their D could always stop the other team.  And they had better players.  Jets D sucks which was to be expected without Mosley and adams.  So gase really should be going balls out in side the 30 every time, not handing to gore on 1st down and wasting a play.  But hey, he’s helping the jets out, they’re losing, and each loss makes it more likely that he’s gone next season.  Darnold wants to chuck it downfield but often can’t either because the guys are slow, not open or the pocket simply collapses and he’s runnning for his life.

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Rex,bowles and now gase plays for fgs.  Difference was Rex and bowles were defensive coaches who thought their D could always stop the other team.  And they had better players.  Jets D sucks which was to be expected without Mosley and adams.  So gase really should be going balls out in side the 30 every time, not handing to gore on 1st down and wasting a play.  But hey, he’s helping the jets out, they’re losing, and each loss makes it more likely that he’s gone next season.  Darnold wants to chuck it downfield but often can’t either because the guys are slow, not open or the pocket simply collapses and he’s runnning for his life.

Can anyone explain the Gore love? Understand he's had a great career, but handing him the ball to run between the tackles is giving up. Mindless garbage time. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

I don't think you can assess Darnold accurately with Gase running the offense

Exactly.

Also, think of how much has gone wrong since the day Darnold was drafted.  Most likely a slew of things we don’t even know about.

An astute analyst like Tony Romo had Darnold pegged to be the #1 QB in the NFL in “only a few years”.  And when he showed some real flashes of brilliance playing with pretty much horrific talent all around him, that looked like it could very well be an accurate statement by Romo.

Now in Year 3 Darnold is rated as the worst or close to worst QB in the league.  I’m not asking him to be #1, but for Romo’s projection to be that incredibly off means a ton of bad things happened within the organization along with some deserved blame on Darnold.