Trevor Lawerence vs Justin Fields

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, artemusclyde said:

Lol, find those articles for me then. I'll wait. And dog, don't pull Mahomes on me, I was one of the few people on this board that wanted the Jets to draft his ass.

Ugh, fine but before I share these, I'll have you know, I gave you my report.  What I see with my own eyes because these bozo experts get it wrong, all the time.  I rarely listen to what they say and always go with what I see over there silly takes like mph and whatever other dumb sh*t it out there.

Apparently, a quick search shows I'm not the only one who sees the flaws in his game;

https://thebrawlnetwork.com/articles/trevor-lawrence-2021-nfl-draft-scouting-report-and-player-review/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854356-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-scouts-divided-on-trevor-lawrences-nfl-future

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-trevor-lawrence-qb-similar-to-deshaun-watson

https://thespun.com/acc/clemson-tigers/nfl-draft-trevor-lawrence-projection-accuracy-issues-matt-miller

https://fansided.com/2020/08/12/trevor-lawrence-amazing-not-perfect-says-former-nfl-quarterback/

https://nfldraftlounge.com/trevor-lawrence-is-not-a-perfect-qb-prospect-yet/

[artemusclyde]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Ugh, fine but before I share these, I'll have you know, I gave you my report.  What I see with my own eyes because these bozo experts get it wrong, all the time.  I rarely listen to what they say and always go with what I see over there silly takes like mph and whatever other dumb sh*t it out there.

Apparently, a quick search shows I'm not the only one who sees the flaws in his game;

https://thebrawlnetwork.com/articles/trevor-lawrence-2021-nfl-draft-scouting-report-and-player-review/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854356-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-scouts-divided-on-trevor-lawrences-nfl-future

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-trevor-lawrence-qb-similar-to-deshaun-watson

https://thespun.com/acc/clemson-tigers/nfl-draft-trevor-lawrence-projection-accuracy-issues-matt-miller

https://fansided.com/2020/08/12/trevor-lawrence-amazing-not-perfect-says-former-nfl-quarterback/

https://nfldraftlounge.com/trevor-lawrence-is-not-a-perfect-qb-prospect-yet/

C'mon man, most of those articles literally just talk about how he's not the greatest prospect ever and are trying to curb the insane hype. And all of them mention how he has a canon for an arm and needs to get better at anticipating throws. One of them even compared him to Stafford.

[JustInFudge]

17 minutes ago, artemusclyde said:

Literally Lawrence, right now Fields is still a work in progress when it comes to going through progressions. He also has bigger accuracy concerns then Lawrence with his ball placement.

Neither offense requires a ton of progression, thus, both players tend to lock into their first read.  That said, I would give Lawrence the edge in that dept.  Mostly because he's more experienced but Fields tends to leave the pocket to quickly.

I disagree with your ball placement assessment.  Fields on paper was more accurate with less pick but where this especially plays out is on the long ball, Fields does a much better job of getting out in front of the receiver and letting them run under it.  Lawrence under throws a lot often requiring adjustments from his WR's.  I also think Fields ball placement is better outside the hash marks, where Lawrence struggles.

❤️

 

[pdxgreen]

Umm both?

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, artemusclyde said:

C'mon man, most of those articles literally just talk about how he's not the greatest prospect ever and are trying to curb the insane hype. And all of them mention how he has a canon for an arm and needs to get better at anticipating throws. One of them even compared him to Stafford.

0% chance you read them all that fast.

And I laugh at your stupid articles too, that's the point.  I told you what I saw and with a simple stupid google search, found articles to verify it.  Make your own opinion. 

 

[artemusclyde]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

0% chance you read them all that fast.

And I laugh at your stupid articles too, that's the point.  I told you what I saw and with a simple stupid google search, found articles to verify it.  Make your own opinion. 

 

Dog, literally none of them say his arm is overrated, so no, you have yet to show me an article to verify anything. Dude, at least read your own damn articles you try to use as evidence.

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, artemusclyde said:

Dog, literally none of them say his arm is overrated, so no, you have yet to show me an article to verify anything. Dude, at least read your own damn articles you try to use as evidence.

I never said his arm was "overrated."  I said you are overrating his arm.  He's got a good arm, not elite.  I said Fields arm is better.   

I was showing you how these articles see the same flaws that I see in Lawrence thus making him not this perfect prospect everyone, especially this board, is making him out to be.  Thus, I like Fields better as a prospect.

 

 

 

[artemusclyde]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

I never said his arm was "overrated."  I said you are overrating his arm.  He's got a good arm, not elite.  I said Fields arm is better.   

I was showing you how these articles see the same flaws that I see in Lawrence thus making him not this perfect prospect everyone, especially this board, is making him out to be.  Thus, I like Fields better as a prospect.

 

 

 

Who ever said he was the perfect prospect? He's the best prospect since Luck, but that doesn't mean he was a greater prospect then either Luck or Manning. That's literally all those articles you mentioned were saying. That's a big difference from putting him below Fields though.

[T0mShane]

Dwayne Haskins getting benched by the Redsk*ns but sure let’s be the team to try and build around the first OSU QB to actually not suck in the NFL

[BROOKLYN JET]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Dwayne Haskins getting benched by the Redsk*ns but sure let’s be the team to try and build around the first OSU QB to actually not suck in the NFL

The Washington Football Team.

[JetBlue]

If the Jets get the first pick they are most likely taking Lawrence unless something weird happens between now and the draft.   There is no way they would pass on a player considered to be "generational" although Fields is right there with him.  Personally Fields is starting to grow on me so I wouldn't mind if we picked 2nd so that it would take the pressure off and we could just take whichever one is available, which most likely would be Fields.  

   

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Dwayne Haskins getting benched by the Redsk*ns but sure let’s be the team to try and build around the first OSU QB to actually not suck in the NFL

I will admit that the one thing that gives me serious hope regarding Fields, should we be forced into drafting him by winning some meaningless games and losing out on the 1st overall pick, is his high school pedigree.  He was supposed to be this good.  The big question is how much of his success is him, and how much of it is the system, because, I’ll be honest, the dude rarely comes off his first look.  That’s because, 9 times out of 10, he doesn’t have to.

Robby Sabo and his guys are supposedly going to do an All-22 breakdown of him.  If I’m wrong about him not making pro reads or executing pro concepts, I’ll happily admit to being wrong...but what I’ve seen so far still has me feeling hesitant.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Dwayne Haskins getting benched by the Redsk*ns but sure let’s be the team to try and build around the first OSU QB to actually not suck in the NFL

As an obviously intelligent poster - can you please elaborate on the logic and inspiration behind this "Good QBs never come from school X" argument?

To paraphrase George Carlin: "Personally, I think it's a bunch of sh*t"

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I will admit that the one thing that gives me serious hope regarding Fields, should we be forced into drafting him by winning some meaningless games and losing out on the 1st overall pick, is his high school pedigree.  He was supposed to be this good.  The big question is how much of his success is him, and how much of it is the system, because, I’ll be honest, the dude rarely comes off his first look because, 9 times out of 10, he doesn’t have to.

Robby Sabo and his guys are supposedly going to do an All-22 breakdown of him.  If I’m wrong about him not making pro reads or executing pro concepts, I’ll happily admit to being wrong...but what I’ve seen so far still has me feeling hesitant.

I mean, after the Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes slanderings via the Internet Draft Tweens Community (TheDraftNetwork, Matt Miller, etc) over the past few years, I’m really not trusting anything I see or hear from those inherently racist dipsh*ts again, but I just dislike the idea of giving up on Darnold to build around a guy from a program that has never produced a viable pro QB, especially one that ducked out on two different programs already. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

As an obviously intelligent poster - can you please elaborate on the logic and inspiration behind this "Good QBs never come from school X" argument?

To paraphrase George Carlin: "Personally, I think it's a bunch of sh*t"

The last good QB Urban Meyer produced was Alex Smith. 

[Joejet]

Just now, T0mShane said:

The last good QB Urban Meyer produced was Alex Smith. 

You do realize that Urban Meyer is not the coach, right?

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The last good QB Urban Meyer produced was Alex Smith. 

Ok. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Joejet said:

You do realize that Urban Meyer is not the coach, right?

Joe. Ryan Day is Urban Meyer’s left tit.

[Mogglez]

25 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

As an obviously intelligent poster - can you please elaborate on the logic and inspiration behind this "Good QBs never come from school X" argument?

To paraphrase George Carlin: "Personally, I think it's a bunch of sh*t"

I mean, I didn’t buy into that notion for many years, but I’m getting there when it comes to USC.  

There are a 2 significant factors that are tied to the school that should scare people:

1 - It’s Ohio State.  They are going to attract top tier talent at every single position almost every single year.

2 - This one is more important.  The system that Ohio State runs is the Urban Meyer system; it’s just a different coach (Ryan Day) calling the plays now.  I pointed it out a couple of days ago, but it bears repeating: this system has made the following quarterbacks look like bonafide superstars in college:

Josh Harris

Alex Smith

Chris Leak

Tim Tebow

Braxton Miller

Cardale Jones

J.T. Barrett

Dewayne Haskins

Justin Fields

Only one has been successful and you can argue that Alex Smith’s pro development, while hindered by early turmoil, was already lagging due to his collegiate years spent in Meyer’s system.  

I can’t speak for @T0mShane, but that’s what scares the sh*t out of me when discussing whether or not to draft a modern day Ohio State QB.

[Mogglez]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I mean, after the Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes slanderings via the Internet Draft Tweens Community (TheDraftNetwork, Matt Miller, etc) over the past few years, I’m really not trusting anything I see or hear from those inherently racist dipsh*ts again, but I just dislike the idea of giving up on Darnold to build around a guy from a program that has never produced a viable pro QB, especially one that ducked out on two different programs already. 

I’ve said it all year and, while I don’t believe it will happen, I still feel this way: if you are forced to choose between Darnold, Fields, or Lance, I’d rather stick with Sam for the last two years of his contract and try to make it work.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

I mean, I didn’t buy into that notion for many years, but I’m getting there when it comes to USC.  
 

There are a 2 significant factors that are tied to the school that should scare people:

1 - It’s Ohio State.  They are going to attract top tier talent at every single position almost every single year.

2 - This one is more important.  The system that Ohio State runs is the Urban Meyer system; it’s just a different coach (Ryan Day) calling the plays now.  I pointed it out a couple of days ago, but it bears repeating: this system has made the following Quarterbacks look like bonafide superstars in college:

Josh Harris

Alex Smith

Chris Leak

Tim Tebow

Braxton Miller

Cardale Jones

J.T. Barrett

Dewayne Haskins

Justin Fields

Only one has been successful and you can argue that Alex Smith’s pro development, while hindered by early turmoil, was already lagging due to his collegiate years spent in Meyer’s system.  

I can’t speak for @T0mShane, but that’s what scares the sh*t out of me when discussing Ohio State QBs.

I meant my question more generally, but fair. 

I still think Fields is an intriguing prospect. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’ve said it all year and, while I don’t believe it will happen, I still feel this way: if you are forced to choose between Darnold, Fields, or Lance, I’d rather stick with Sam for the last two years of his contract and try to make it work.

Yeah, I feel the same. I’m disgusted by what Sam looks like right now, but if I’m given the choice, my preferences are:

1. Trevor at 1; trade Darnold

2. If you don’t have pick one, draft and sign skills guys and see if Darnold has a Tannehill-like resurgence post-Gase.

[Mogglez]

13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I meant my question more generally, but fair. 

I still think Fields is an intriguing prospect. 

He is the hardest read I’ve had in quite some time because I have followed both him and Trevor since their days in the Elite 11.  I always thought those two would be where they are today; I just thought Fields would be doing it at Georgia.  I honestly don’t know what happened in Athens, so I can’t comment on it, but his success doesn’t surprise me.

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I feel the same. I’m disgusted by what Sam looks like right now, but if I’m given the choice, my preferences are:

1. Trevor at 1; trade Darnold

2. If you don’t have pick one, draft and sign skills guys and see if Darnold has a Tannehill-like resurgence post-Gase.

Yup.  The only issue I’m having is that there’s a chance Sam is broken beyond repair and then we’re stuck hoping that we can choose between Kedon Slovis, which won’t happen, IMO, because of the USC thing, and Sam Howell, who looks like a homeless man’s Baker Mayfield right now, in the following draft.

[Jetsfan80]

The Ohio State QB history is a huge concern with Fields. But so was the Air Raid system with Mahomes.

 

You have to VERY carefully look at Fields as a prospect, isolating out things that can transfer to the pros, before ruling him out OR anointing him based on how he looks in that system.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Yup.  The only issue I’m having is that there’s a chance Sam is broken beyond repair and then we’re stuck hoping that we can choose between Kedon Slovis, which won’t happen, IMO, because of the USC thing, and Sam Howell, who looks like a homeless man’s Baker Mayfield right now, in the following draft.

I feel like making decisions based on the QB’s in this year’s drafts vs next year’s drafts is how the Jets ended up passing on Mahomes and Watson in the first place, though. IMO, their whole calculus has to be Sam vs Fields or Lawrence and then deal with the fallout because if they draft Fields out of a sense of panic and he ends up being Dwayne Haskins, everyone is getting fired. 

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I feel like making decisions based on the QB’s in this year’s drafts vs next year’s drafts is how the Jets ended up passing on Mahomes and Watson in the first place, though. IMO, their whole calculus has to be Sam vs Fields or Lawrence and then deal with the fallout because if they draft Fields out of a sense of panic and he ends up being Dwayne Haskins, everyone is getting fired. 

Couldn’t have said it better myself, especially if they miss out on Lawrence, take Fields who busts, and this comes to fruition and haunts us for the next decade:

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Couldn’t have said it better myself, especially if this comes to fruition and haunts us for the next decade:

If we draft Trevor Lawrence and sign Ju-Ju Smith Schuster in free agency we win. 

[Jetsfan80]

Couldn’t have said it better myself, especially if this comes to fruition and haunts us for the next decade:

If we nail the pick at QB, I couldn’t care less how Darnold does elsewhere.

If we don’t nail the pick at QB, it also doesn’t matter a whole lot how Darnold is doing, because we’ll be f**ked regardless.

Darnold’s future elsewhere should really not matter one iota once he’s gone.

[RSJ]

Trevor Lawrence reminds me of Todd Marinovich. Wouldnt be shocked if he was skateboarding and shooting heroin by the time he is 30.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Couldn’t have said it better myself, especially if they miss out on Lawrence, take Fields who busts, and this comes to fruition to haunt us for the next decade:

I keep seeing the Darnold-to-Pitt rumors, which should be terrifying for Jets fans. IMO, whoever the next coach is should want one crack at Darnold anyway because it’s smart career-wise. If Daboll/Bieniemy/Whoever props Darnold up, he looks a coaching genius, and if Darnold washes out it’s “oh well, he sucked before I got here.” Like a coaching redshirt season. 

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Ohio State QB history is a huge concern with Fields. But so was the Air Raid system with Mahomes.

 

I came back to post this. 

All of these rules will eventually be broken. 

You just have to evaluate the player and personality and make your best decision. 

[joewilly12]

We owe Pittsburgh a payback for Neal O'Donnell

[Mogglez]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

If we nail the pick at QB, I couldn’t care less how Darnold does elsewhere.

If we don’t nail the pick at QB, it also doesn’t matter a whole lot how Darnold is doing, because we’ll be f**ked regardless.

Darnold’s future elsewhere should really not matter one iota once he’s gone.

 

 

That’s why I edited my post to elaborate and include the scenario of us selecting Fields, who busts. 

T0m is right.  If the Jets panic pick Fields (or Lance, for arguments sake), he fails, Darnold is traded, and he thrives for another franchise, Douglas will be fired before he can pack his bags.  Like it or not, Douglas chose to not surround Sam with talent or a competent coach to see if he could pull off the impossible: prevent him from drafting his guy and prove his worth in a hopeless situation.  That will have repercussions if his guy is a bust and Sam rejuvenates himself, ala Tannehill.

[joewilly12]

Risk vs Reward stick with Darnold who seems be a bust or draft Lawrence who could be a superstar like Mahomes,Jackson.