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Why is Trevor Lawrence a "Generational QB Prospect"?


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16 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Trevor shreds Alabama for championship as a True freshman .
 

Sam biggest game come back win vs texas. In which he played pretty bad in that 1st half. 

 

they are not Same. 

Boy you all absolutely refuse to read the posts dont you?

Your first point is void, because I'm not talking about their Bowl games

Your second point is void because im talking about their first years playing as starters (Sam played Texas his second year as starter). Its also factually not true. On one hand you praise Lawrence for his stellar bowl game, but then bring up a random regular season game for Sam. Give me direct one to one statistics that show Lawrence was better and we will talk. 

Not to mention, if you're going to bring up Trevs Alabama bowl game, then bring up Sam's Penn State Bowl game, which is widely regarded as one of the best bowl game performances of the last decade. 

Also fun fact, Sam had 3 (5 TD Games) including his Rose Bowl performance. Lawrence has never had one. 

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4 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Boy you all absolutely refuse to read the posts dont you?

Your first point is void, because I'm not talking about their Bowl games

Your second point is void because im talking about their first years playing as starters (Sam played Texas his second year as starter). Its also factually not true. On one hand you praise Lawrence for his stellar bowl game, but then bring up a random regular season game for Sam. Give me direct one to one statistics that show Lawrence was better and we will talk. 

Not to mention, if you're going to bring up Trevs Alabama bowl game, then bring up Sam's Penn State Bowl game, which is widely regarded as one of the best bowl game performances of the last decade. 

Also fun fact, Sam had 3 (5 TD Games) including his Rose Bowl performance. Lawrence has never had one. 

Stop with the stats.  Go do a little research and see how many games Trevor played all 4 quarters.   He was getting pulled early 3rd quarter last year.   Stats are silly, they are even sillier when being used as a scouting report.  

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This reminds me of how many posters on this board were all - wait for Sam Darnold.  Watson and Mahomes wouldnt be 1st round prospects in any other draft.  Sam is best product since Luck, yada yada yada.  

I have concerns with Lawrence in the NFL.  He's a bit of hype machine, granted, it's followed him since High School and he hasnt disappointed.  There is something to be said about that mentality.  That said, his game is flawed.  He's not very accurate, his ball placement is highly questionable, tons of thrown up 50/50 balls that guys like Higgins and Ross just go get.  Similar as Mayfield, lots of wide open WR's playing competition that is legit, a fraction of what's around him (I know he had an incredible first playoff as a freshman).  You will see many times WR's have to make adjustments for the ball, especially long balls.  His arm strength is good, not great.  He struggles to throw outside the hash mark (will be even harder in the NFL).  I dont think he's a next level runner, at least, you're not designing runs for him in the NFL like they do at Clemson.  He's fast so he can tuck it and run for sure, but expecting him to be a versatile QB dual threat style is very wishful thinking.  He's faced adversity once at Clemson and was embarrassingly bad (dont give me LSU, plenty of QB's had monster days vs. them).  It was so ugly, that is very tough to get that memory to get out of my mind.

He's undoubtedly talented, I think in the right system, with the right coaching, and proper surroundings, I'm sure he can be developed at the next level but he's not a generational talent/finished product that is going to set the NFL on fire.  He will have a HUGE learning curve, just in a maturity alone.  He's a baby and it's great he has a ton of experience but the NFL is a different beast.

Cant wait to see OSU get playing because IMO Fields is the more intriguing prospect.  There is a trend going on in the NFL and it's real and Fields fit that trend.  The QB's that have been taken lately with a skill set that you just straight up cant teach (Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Murrary, Jackson, Allen) over the traditional polished pocket passer.  That's is Fields.  He brings a skill set to the table Lawrence could only dream of.  If you havent been paying attention, that is what you want in a prospect these days.  

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9 minutes ago, HessStation said:

He’s basically a today’s version of John Elway who I consider the greatest QB to ever play besides Marino. That said, playing for the Jets just might ruin him. Still have to hope for him to be the savior or there’s no point 

What?  That's absurd.  lol. 

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11 minutes ago, JiF said:

This reminds me of how many posters on this board were all - wait for Sam Darnold.  Watson and Mahomes wouldnt be 1st round prospects in any other draft.  Sam is best product since Luck, yada yada yada.  

I have concerns with Lawrence in the NFL.  He's a bit of hype machine, granted, it's followed him since High School and he hasnt disappointed.  There is something to be said about that mentality.  That said, his game is flawed.  He's not very accurate, his ball placement is highly questionable, tons of thrown up 50/50 balls that guys like Higgins and Ross just go get.  Similar as Mayfield, lots of wide open WR's playing competition that is legit, a fraction of what's around him (I know he had an incredible first playoff as a freshman).  You will see many times WR's have to make adjustments for the ball, especially long balls.  His arm strength is good, not great.  He struggles to throw outside the hash mark (will be even harder in the NFL).  I dont think he's a next level runner, at least, you're not designing runs for him in the NFL like they do at Clemson.  He's fast so he can tuck it and run for sure, but expecting him to be a versatile QB dual threat style is very wishful thinking.  He's faced adversity once at Clemson and was embarrassingly bad (dont give me LSU, plenty of QB's had monster days vs. them).  It was so ugly, that is very tough to get that memory to get out of my mind.

He's undoubtedly talented, I think in the right system, with the right coaching, and proper surroundings, I'm sure he can be developed at the next level but he's not a generational talent/finished product that is going to set the NFL on fire.  He will have a HUGE learning curve, just in a maturity alone.  He's a baby and it's great he has a ton of experience but the NFL is a different beast.

Cant wait to see OSU get playing because IMO Fields is the more intriguing prospect.  There is a trend going on in the NFL and it's real and Fields fit that trend.  The QB's that have been taken lately with a skill set that you just straight up cant teach (Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Murrary, Jackson, Allen) over the traditional polished pocket passer.  That's is Fields.  He brings a skill set to the table Lawrence could only dream of.  If you havent been paying attention, that is what you want in a prospect these days.  

Lance fits that trend as well. 

No matter who we take, I want that person to sit at least half the season (Lawerence) and 2/3 to the whole season if its Fields or Lance.  These guys need time to develop so the game isnt too fast for them, which leads to mistakes and hits, and increases the chances of what we are now seeing with Sam.

We have the luxury of 2 first round picks in the next 2 drafts.  That allows to essentially "stash" a QB in this draft while also getting a WR, OL or Pass Rusher with our 2nd first rounder.  Let the QB develop while we give Sam one more season with a new coach, and then either we have 2 QBs and 2 firsts in the 2022 draft or Sam is gone, we have a 2nd year starter who has been in the system for a full season and we use our 2 firsts to shore up the team around him.

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2 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Lance fits that trend as well. 

No matter who we take, I want that person to sit at least half the season (Lawerence) and 2/3 to the whole season if its Fields or Lance.  These guys need time to develop so the game isnt too fast for them, which leads to mistakes and hits, and increases the chances of what we are now seeing with Sam.

We have the luxury of 2 first round picks in the next 2 drafts.  That allows to essentially "stash" a QB in this draft while also getting a WR, OL or Pass Rusher with our 2nd first rounder.  Let the QB develop while we give Sam one more season with a new coach, and then either we have 2 QBs and 2 firsts in the 2022 draft or Sam is gone, we have a 2nd year starter who has been in the system for a full season and we use our 2 firsts to shore up the team around him.

I'll be honest, I've never seen Lance play a single down because I dont watch FCS Football.  That said, we get one chance to see him this year and that is today!  So I'll tune in as much as I can.  I've watched some footage of him since his name started popping up and areed, he fits the bill of what I'm looking for these days in a QB.

I just dont know enough about him to give an honest assessment but from what I hear, I probalby like him more than Lawrence already.

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2 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

Luck was a top flight QB from day 1. His oline was sh*t he had 1 legit WR in TY , and still performed at high level .  He didnt need  a perfect roster and book worth of excuses like a certain other QB needs.

one thing for sure scouts dont miss on generational QB prospects. Elway, Peyton, Luck all legit

Trevor is going to go into the same sh*tty situation and Luck never won a championship. 

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11 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'll be honest, I've never seen Lance play a single down because I dont watch FCS Football.  That said, we get one chance to see him this year and that is today!  So I'll tune in as much as I can.  I've watched some footage of him since his name started popping up and areed, he fits the bill of what I'm looking for these days in a QB.

I just dont know enough about him to give an honest assessment but from what I hear, I probalby like him more than Lawrence already.

I thought there was no TV at Lance's game today.  Is it on somehow?

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19 minutes ago, BCJet said:

 

 

19 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Lance fits that trend as well. 

No matter who we take, I want that person to sit at least half the season (Lawerence) and 2/3 to the whole season if its Fields or Lance.  These guys need time to develop so the game isnt too fast for them, which leads to mistakes and hits, and increases the chances of what we are now seeing with Sam.

We have the luxury of 2 first round picks in the next 2 drafts.  That allows to essentially "stash" a QB in this draft while also getting a WR, OL or Pass Rusher with our 2nd first rounder.  Let the QB develop while we give Sam one more season with a new coach, and then either we have 2 QBs and 2 firsts in the 2022 draft or Sam is gone, we have a 2nd year starter who has been in the system for a full season and we use our 2 firsts to shore up the team around him.

Lance scares me, especially if you’re taking him in the first.   I can’t envision a scenario where I would pass up Fields only to take Lance with the Seattle’s pick.  His body of work is so limited, and he’s coming from an FCS program.   

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38 minutes ago, JiF said:

This reminds me of how many posters on this board were all - wait for Sam Darnold.  Watson and Mahomes wouldnt be 1st round prospects in any other draft.  Sam is best product since Luck, yada yada yada.  

I have concerns with Lawrence in the NFL.  He's a bit of hype machine, granted, it's followed him since High School and he hasnt disappointed.  There is something to be said about that mentality.  That said, his game is flawed.  He's not very accurate, his ball placement is highly questionable, tons of thrown up 50/50 balls that guys like Higgins and Ross just go get.  Similar as Mayfield, lots of wide open WR's playing competition that is legit, a fraction of what's around him (I know he had an incredible first playoff as a freshman).  You will see many times WR's have to make adjustments for the ball, especially long balls.  His arm strength is good, not great.  He struggles to throw outside the hash mark (will be even harder in the NFL).  I dont think he's a next level runner, at least, you're not designing runs for him in the NFL like they do at Clemson.  He's fast so he can tuck it and run for sure, but expecting him to be a versatile QB dual threat style is very wishful thinking.  He's faced adversity once at Clemson and was embarrassingly bad (dont give me LSU, plenty of QB's had monster days vs. them).  It was so ugly, that is very tough to get that memory to get out of my mind.

He's undoubtedly talented, I think in the right system, with the right coaching, and proper surroundings, I'm sure he can be developed at the next level but he's not a generational talent/finished product that is going to set the NFL on fire.  He will have a HUGE learning curve, just in a maturity alone.  He's a baby and it's great he has a ton of experience but the NFL is a different beast.

Cant wait to see OSU get playing because IMO Fields is the more intriguing prospect.  There is a trend going on in the NFL and it's real and Fields fit that trend.  The QB's that have been taken lately with a skill set that you just straight up cant teach (Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Murrary, Jackson, Allen) over the traditional polished pocket passer.  That's is Fields.  He brings a skill set to the table Lawrence could only dream of.  If you havent been paying attention, that is what you want in a prospect these days.  

Agree about Fields.   Althetically he’s not as dynamic as Watson or Jackson, he’s more like Wilson.   If you want to criticize Trevor for the LSU game then you have to criticize Fields for the Clemson game.   He didn’t perform great when pressured and had a couple bad INTs that cost them.  That’s probably the biggest knock on Fields right now, when blitzed and pressured he needs to make quicker decisions.  We’ll see this year how that progresses.   
 

It’s going to be interesting to watch how this unfolds because right now I can’t see the Jets not drafting a QB with their first pick next year.  

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Just now, New York Mick said:

Luck would of sucked playing for this Jets team and Gase unless he was as good at calling plays as Peyton Manning. 

Luck knows how to read defenses and didnt crumble under every blitz . Yall can pile up the excuses for Sam all yall want. But he makes plenty of self inflicted mistakes by himself. 

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13 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Trevor is going to go into the same sh*tty situation and Luck never won a championship. 

True, I don’t care who you draft, if the Jets support the next QB like they did Sam we will be sitting here in another 4 years debating what QB the Jets will draft with the first overall pick.  

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1 minute ago, Scoop24 said:

Luck knows how to read defenses and didnt crumble under every blitz . Yall can pile up the excuses for Sam all yall want. But he makes plenty of self inflicted mistakes by himself. 

I’m not defending Sam. I’ve said many times I don’t know if he’s the right QB or not but I’m 100% positive Gase isn’t the right HC

My point as far as this thread is Trevor isn’t as good as some people are making him out to be. He’s good but he’s not generational and Luck is from the same generation so is Mahomes. How many QBs are generational for the last 20 to 30 years?

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2 hours ago, JTJet said:

Your first point is void, because I'm not talking about their Bowl games

Your second point is void because im talking about their first years playing as starters (Sam played Texas his second year as starter).

So basically, in your carefully selected set of criteria their stats look very similair, but adding more games and thus more data makes the comparison look less compelling?

By the time Lawrence is done, barring injury, he'll have 3 full seasons. If he comes out of that as consensus #1 hes a far better prospect than Sam. Period. Talking about some 13 game stretch when 1 was a soph and the other a freshman as the only basis for comparison is absurd.

 

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43 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'd fire you from my staff for this comparison.  This is absolutely nutty.

Why? That’s kind of the guy. Throwing motion, insane arm strength and accuracy on strong, tight throws, but sorta lacks consistent accuracy on touch throws, sort of a slasher, not elite track speed/feet but amazing long strides and movement out of the pocket. Controls the game the same way. Same moxy, Horse face. Me sees it 

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11 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agree about Fields.   Althetically he’s not as dynamic as Watson or Jackson, he’s more like Wilson.   If you want to criticize Trevor for the LSU game then you have to criticize Fields for the Clemson game.   He didn’t perform great when pressured and had a couple bad INTs that cost them.  That’s probably the biggest knock on Fields right now, when blitzed and pressured he needs to make quicker decisions.  We’ll see this year how that progresses.   
 

It’s going to be interesting to watch how this unfolds because right now I can’t see the Jets not drafting a QB with their first pick next year.  

Fair.  Interestingly enough, that was kind of a game of opposites, Lawrence was more effective as a runner, Fields as a passer.  I dont think they planned on him throwing it so much, it was his most attempts on the season but agreed, he didnt handle pressure well but he didnt wet himself the way Lawrence did vs LSU

Oh I'm 100% convinced we're going QB.  Only a fool wouldn't.

 

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Just now, T0mShane said:

I think what people forget about Darnold as a prospect is that he only played QB for three years before turning pro, and that’s including high school where he was a QB for his senior year, then two years at USC. He hasn’t played that much football, all told

Basically the worst possible all time prospect for the Jets....someone who needed stability, rock solid foundation org and great consistent coaching. 

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fair.  Interestingly enough, that was kind of a game of opposites, Lawrence was more effective as a runner, Fields as a passer.  I dont think they planned on him throwing it so much, it was his most attempts on the season but agreed, he didnt handle pressure well but he didnt wet himself the way Lawrence did vs LSU

Oh I'm 100% convinced we're going QB.  Only a fool wouldn't.

 

At this point a QB will be drafted.   I would watch the OSU/Penn State game, Fields didn’t handle the pressure there as well, but that was his first year as a starter so I expect some growth in his recognition this year.   

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3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Why? That’s kind of the guy. Throwing motion, insane arm strength and accuracy on strong, tight throws, but sorta lacks consistent accuracy on touch throws, sort of a slasher, not elite track speed/feet but amazing long strides and movement out of the pocket. Controls the game the same way. Same moxy, Horse face. Me sees it 

He doesnt have "insane arm strength", it's average.  Elway was next level.  He struggles with accuracy, especially ball placement.  He's nowhere the runner Elway was, nowhere near the ability to throw on the run.

You're fired! 

 

 

  

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11 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Sam also had 20 fumbles over his two years (14 lost), added to his 22 interceptions, that makes 36 turnovers in 27 games played. 
 

Trevor has 4 fumbles lost, 12 interceptions. 16 turnovers in 32 games played. 

Didn't the fumbles become a thing in year two, when he lost most of his OL and was pounded more regularly?

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11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think what people forget about Darnold as a prospect is that he only played QB for three years before turning pro, and that’s including high school where he was a QB for his senior year, then two years at USC. He hasn’t played that much football, all told

They know its been said a ton. The issue is that some see that as a boon to his stock.. "he played so well at USC with almost no experiance can you imagine how good he can be in x years." (Which is why you get the coach blaming and teammate blaming stuff, they held him back if you think this way)

I tend to think the lack of experiance against lesser competition is an anchor not upside.

The issue is how you think that inexperiance projects

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4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

At this point a QB will be drafted.   I would watch the OSU/Penn State game, Fields didn’t handle the pressure there as well, but that was his first year as a starter so I expect some growth in his recognition this year.   

Weird, the stretch where he beat Penn St/Michigan/Wisconsin, was the stretch that convinced me on him.  He was lights out in the passing game over those 3 games.

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

He doesnt have "insane arm strength", it's average.  Elway was next level.  He struggles with accuracy, especially ball placement.  He's nowhere the runner Elway was, nowhere near the ability to throw on the run.

You're fired! 

 

 

  

Yes. Elway struggled with consistent accuracy on in the pocket touch throws and then would hit 4-5 deadly rockets to the receivers chest, Lawrence is so similar.  You’re underestimating his arm strength imo. 

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2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Yes. Elway struggled with consistent accuracy on in the pocket touch throws and then would hit 4-5 deadly rockets to the receivers chest, Lawrence is so similar.  You’re underestimating his arm strength imo. 

Did you know that John Elway’s career completion percentage was only 56.9% and that he only broke 60% three times in his career? And that his Y/A (yards gained per pass attempt) was only a pedestrian 7.1 ypa? For reference, Chad Pennington’s career Y/A was 7.2. As always @JiF is talking that sh*t.

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10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Weird, the stretch where he beat Penn St/Michigan/Wisconsin, was the stretch that convinced me on him.  He was lights out in the passing game over those 3 games.

I don’t think he played poorly against PSU, it’s just that they were the only team in that stretch able to pressure him and I don’t think he handled it well.   These kids (Fields and Lawrence) have the luxury of a lot of clean pockets and throwing time, it’s the adversity you really want to see.  This will certainly be a weekly discussion as the likelihood of the number 1 pick looms larger and larger.  

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Did you know that John Elway’s career completion percentage was only 56.9% and that he only broke 60% three times in his career? And that his Y/A (yards gained per pass attempt) was only a pedestrian 7.1 ypa? For reference, Chad Pennington’s career Y/A was 7.2. As always @JiF is talking that sh*t.

It was 1983.  Are you kidding me with this?  lmfao

I expect a lot better from you.  You're bringing the weak sauce. 

 

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