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Joe Douglas must share in the blame for this Jets debacle


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17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

We have no reason at all to believe that.  All we know at this point is that he's capable of tearing down a team and that he  chose Becton over Wirfs - Becton's been better but Wirfs has been very good too and healthy.

Now, we don't know if he's bad either. 

He may turn out to be great, just that a year and half into his tenure we still know close to nothing about his ability to build a team.

See post above yours.

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Douglas can immediately reach God status if he lands a wideout like JuJu, Robinson or Golladay in the offseason and walks away from the 1st round with something like a Trevor Lawrence/Wyatt Davis combo.

Not to mention the further added picks we could land in a potential Darnold trade.

This team could actually do things the right way this time if Douglas plays his cards right over the next 2 years and we land at least a competent HC.

None of those talented players will mean anything if Adam Gase is still here.

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2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

None of those talented players will mean anything if Adam Gase is still here.

And I still think that's an open question.

I truly believe they were prepared for a bad year - and that Gase was part of that plan - with the intention of bringing him back.

But...this has been so bad and if it continues like this the pressure will be too big to move on.

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

And I still think that's an open question.

I truly believe they were prepared for a bad year - and that Gase was part of that plan - with the intention of bringing him back.

But...this has been so bad and if it continues like this the pressure will be too big to move on.

If the Jets finish 2 wins or fewer in a season where they were expected to take a couple of baby steps forward, then keeping Gase after the 2020 season will be almost impossible for the Johnsons.  The pressure would be huge.

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4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If the Jets finish 2 wins or fewer in a season where they were expected to take a couple of baby steps forward, then keeping Gase after the 2020 season will be almost impossible for the Johnsons.  The pressure would be huge.

I also think a lot depends on if Woody comes back. 

Woody was very much focused on PR, much more so than his brother.  And Woody won't be attached to Gase the way CJ is. 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Share the blame?

He's almost 100% to blame.

I'm sorry but this is an 0-4 team with any coach.  Even without the injuries this is the least talented team in the league.   He replaced our garbage with other teams garbage and got rid of our two best, and only good players.

I'm just holding out hope that he understands what he's doing.  As far as I'm concerned the key things that he must have recognized.

1) He had to have already moved on from Darnold.  If he had any faith in him he needed to build a team around him, not downgrade the roster.

2) He must have plans and key targets in FA next year.   Having all that money he saved on only signing other teams garbage - he must have a plan to spend next year and must have key targets that he's willing to overpay for.

3) He must understand this team is tanking and be fully prepared to draft a QB with our first draft choice.

If all of that wasn't part of his plan then I am very worried that he's in way over his head. 

Lastly, If he thought he was putting a competitive team on the field, something that even resembled an NFL roster than CJ should cut his losses and move on right now. 

What indication have you seen that makes you think he isn’t making the right moves?  He shook up the oline and the secondary.  Except for Adams and possibly Robbie all of the players he brought in are better than the ones they replaced. And right now 3 of the draft picks are making good contributions and well soon see if Mims, Clark, and Zuniga were also worth being picked.

the real issue is getting this group to play as a team.  The offense needs to score in the 20’s without the benefit of a pick six or other turnover. It takes time.   In a sense the jets are starting in position worse than if they were an expansion team. If I remember correctly, the jet team when the jags and panthers came into the league also lost to those expansion teams during their first season.

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Here's how I'll apportion the blame right now (of course, the owners are 100% responsible for all of this):

Mac 70%

Gase 20%

JD 10%

JD's share will grow over time. Mac had 4 years and 5 drafts, so his shadow still looms large over this mess. Gase is working with garbage, but still the whole notion that he's some sort of "brilliant" football mind seems silly. 

JD really should have tried to secure one really good FA OL. I guess he thought that McGovern was that.  Fant and Van Roten were "hold the fort" guys, but VR has been awful so far. To be fair, I expected the OL to struggle early but gradually get better. The run blocking so far is atrocious, and Sam is under lots of pressure. 

In the draft, he should have focused hard on building around Sam...so double dip at WR and OL with the first four picks. He did well with the trade downs and the first two picks, but then sort of took "flyers" on defensive guys in round three: a raw safety and injury prone DE.  I think he did that one round too early. He tried to draft a little bit of everything instead of focusing on the offense more early. There's some bad luck with all the injures, but some of his picks need to get healthy and contribute a bit as the season progresses or that 10% grows. 

You can't fix everything with one draft, but so far his first draft has fixed little...maybe just LT. He's really fumbled WR badly.

 

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12 minutes ago, rangerous said:

What indication have you seen that makes you think he isn’t making the right moves?  He shook up the oline and the secondary.  Except for Adams and possibly Robbie all of the players he brought in are better than the ones they replaced. And right now 3 of the draft picks are making good contributions and well soon see if Mims, Clark, and Zuniga were also worth being picked.

the real issue is getting this group to play as a team.  The offense needs to score in the 20’s without the benefit of a pick six or other turnover. It takes time.   In a sense the jets are starting in position worse than if they were an expansion team. If I remember correctly, the jet team when the jags and panthers came into the league also lost to those expansion teams during their first season.

1) I have no indication he's not making the right moves.  I don't have any indication he is making the right moves either.  That's the point, we really don't.  What he's done is tear down the old team but he's yet to rebuild the new one.

2) I disagree that players he replaced are better.  And saying just Robby and Jamal is silly.  Those were the two best players on this team - and really the only impact players we had.

3) They can play like a team all they want - there is simply not enough talent here to be a winner.

4) His draft class grade is an incomplete right now.

Again, I'm not saying he's done a bad job but we don't yet know if he's capable of doing a good job.  He tore down the old team - that's fine if it's part of his plan, but that's the easy part.  The unanswered question is can he build a new one?

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6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

1) I have no indication he's not making the right moves.  I don't have any indication he is making the right moves either.  That's the point, we really don't.  What he's done is tear down the old team but he's yet to rebuild the new one.

2) I disagree that players he replaced are better.  And saying just Robby and Jamal is silly.  Those were the two best players on this team - and really the only impact players we had.

3) They can play like a team all they want - there is simply not enough talent here to be a winner.

4) His draft class grade is an incomplete right now.

Again, I'm not saying he's done a bad job but we don't yet know if he's capable of doing a good job.  He tore down the old team - that's fine if it's part of his plan, but that's the easy part.  The unanswered question is can he build a new one?

Good points but at least we see him targeting major areas of concern. He chose Becton and that’s huge. No telling who Mac would’ve picked. I also agree he will deserve some blame. I say will because, as you said, the draft picks are still a question mark. Mann and Becton look good but the other guys haven’t seen the field much if at all.  The bottom line is Douglas criticism should be held off until next season unless he makes some seriously bad draft picks or moves.

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Anita Marks was asking the question on her radio show today.

What if Joe Douglas purposefully went for bargain basement free agents for a reason beyond the obvious cap savings?

Exhibit A, The signing of 'starters' Greg Van Roten, Pierre Desir, Breshad Perriman.          Was the tank in from early summer?

Seems far fetched but if it's true, then Joe Douglas deserves credit for fooling everyone.

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5 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Anita Marks was asking the question on her radio show today.

What if Joe Douglas purposefully went for bargain basement free agents for a reason beyond the obvious cap savings?

Exhibit A, The signing of 'starters' Greg Van Roten, Pierre Desir, Breshad Perriman.          Was the tank in from early summer?

Seems far fetched but if it's true, then Joe Douglas deserves credit for fooling everyone.

I’ve literally been saying this since July.

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18 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Anita Marks was asking the question on her radio show today.

What if Joe Douglas purposefully went for bargain basement free agents for a reason beyond the obvious cap savings?

Exhibit A, The signing of 'starters' Greg Van Roten, Pierre Desir, Breshad Perriman.          Was the tank in from early summer?

Seems far fetched but if it's true, then Joe Douglas deserves credit for fooling everyone.

This would be fine and dandy if the draft class didn’t look like a Maccagnan level disaster.

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Share the blame?

He's almost 100% to blame.

I'm sorry but this is an 0-4 team with any coach.  Even without the injuries this is the least talented team in the league.   He replaced our garbage with other teams garbage and got rid of our two best, and only good players.

I'm just holding out hope that he understands what he's doing.  As far as I'm concerned the key things that he must have recognized.

1) He had to have already moved on from Darnold.  If he had any faith in him he needed to build a team around him, not downgrade the roster.

2) He must have plans and key targets in FA next year.   Having all that money he saved on only signing other teams garbage - he must have a plan to spend next year and must have key targets that he's willing to overpay for.

3) He must understand this team is tanking and be fully prepared to draft a QB with our first draft choice.

If all of that wasn't part of his plan then I am very worried that he's in way over his head. 

Lastly, If he thought he was putting a competitive team on the field, something that even resembled an NFL roster than CJ should cut his losses and move on right now. 

Good post, can’t argue with any of it.  

A lot of people love that we have so much cap money and the Covid uncertainty might mean that it’s a smart move if the cap is drastically reduced but I personally have my doubts that will actually happen and acres of cap space is only really any good if you are resigning your own players to long term deals....except we don’t have any!!

JD got rid of Robby and Jamal who would’ve been exactly the type of home grown players you lock up and try to build around...Sam maybe too, if we could definitively say he was the future, but having completely tied his hands behind his back, by leaving him with even less talent around him rather than more, we can’t say for sure.

as a general rule though, all the free agency money in the world is all fine and dandy, but the really good players simply don’t become available because the smart teams and the smart GM’s realise that keeping your own good players and never letting them hit FA, is the way to build sustainable success. The overrated and underachieving are the guys that end up getting massively overpaid and they are almost always the ones who wriggle free

All in all, it’s not been a great start for JD

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14 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

So he goes ham next year in free agency and draft, surrounding his HC and new QB with weaponz galore??

I believe that he will be more active, yes.  HAM?  Idk, because the draft It’s still his priority, however, I do expect us to make a run at guys like Thuney, if he shakes free, and JuJu Smith Schuster.

Joe Douglas is all about value.  He won’t blow his load on guys like CJ Mosley, Le’Veon Bell, or Trumaine Johnson as your GM.

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16 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

This would be fine and dandy if the draft class didn’t look like a Maccagnan level disaster.

In what universe is this a Maccagnan level disaster?  The explanation for this should be golden.  I’m gonna laugh my sides into orbit when you say “the injuries” because no player, other than Zuniga and Hall, had an injury history.

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The jury is out on Joe Douglas as far as I am concerned.  Becton looks like a solid draft pick in a key position even more important to Sam than WR.  Hopefully Gase will not destroy his career in a pitiful effort to keep his job.  Offensive lines take time to gel so I'm not going to condemn him after 4 games and no pre-season because they are not good.  He basically had to start from scratch.  I didn't like the Robbie Anderson move.  I think we could have kept him for a reasonable amount of money and should have since he's a good player and has chemistry with Sam.  He's demonstrating now that he will continue to play hard even after he gets paid--something that a lot of Jet free agents have not done (Wilkerson, Reevis,and Trumaine Johnson).  Losing Jamal Adams hurts.  Time will tell if that was the right move.  Who knows if Perriman or Mimms are any good.  If they finally show up and play and produce, feelings about Douglas will improve.  Unless they have someone really special to replace him with (with a 6 year contract I'm sure they won't), 2021 will be the make or break year for this guy.  I'm not overly optimistic since almost every decision the Johnsons make is wrong.

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Douglas does get blame for this season. But I think that was part of the plan - not for them to lose, but that they weren't going to compete this year, anyway, so address a couple core needs. He brought in the most important piece to see if Darnold is a franchise QB - Becton. He loaded up with picks, tried to address a few key positions, and signed a bunch of free agents to one-year deals in the hopes that after next year, the Jets could land some compensatory picks.

Does anyone think the Jets should have gone out and gotten a couple high-priced free agents? To what end? Going 7-9, maybe, if things broke right? Was this roster a big splash free agent from competing for a title? 

Douglas is responsible for this. But until the full plan comes to fruition, I want to give him the time to implement it, rather than judging him. Deviating from it now to appease angry fans or tabloid beat writers would be a mistake.

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JD had to temporarily rebuild the line with available free agents. Free agent lineman are rarely more than adequate. You occasionally find a Kevin Mawae, but you more often find a Van Roten and McGovern. I don't fault him much with not building an all-pro line but I do fault him for not re-signing Robby Anderson, or at least drafting a second WR instead of a back-up QB or a safety. 

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23 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Has anyone figured out the Morgan pick? Why was he drafted, how did he do in practice and when will we see him next?

As much as I think Douglas has earned some fierce criticism this is one pick I don’t have a problem with, not sure how anyone can see the regression in Sam Darnold and not feel like having another option at QB was a good idea. We might need to see James Morgan before the season is out because Flacco only makes sense if we are competitive and have a chance to make postseason....which we are not

Taking James Morgan with a 4th round pick has next to nothing to do with the catastrophe that is our roster right now. It’s way down the list of questionable moves

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54 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

In what universe is this a Maccagnan level disaster?  The explanation for this should be golden.  I’m gonna laugh my sides into orbit when you say “the injuries” because no player, other than Zuniga and Hall, had an injury history.

It would be nice if they could you know actually play football. A safety in the 3rd? Why? I don’t even know who Hall is either. 

There’s no pass given to Douglas because of injuries. Enough of the excuses with this franchise man. Everything is an excuse.

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20 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It would be nice if they could you know actually play football. A safety in the 3rd? Why? I don’t even know who Hall is either. 

There’s no pass given to Douglas because of injuries. Enough of the excuses with this franchise man. Everything is an excuse.

Sooooooo you’re going to go with injuries despite the fact that none of them had extensive injury histories in college.

BOLD STRATEGY COTTON.

We might have our LT for the next ten years.  That alone destroys a Maccagnan draft.

Ashtyn Davis, for the record, was an athletic freak of a FS taken where Safeties should be taken.  The pick was made because “Prezzzzzzz” was never going to be paid by Douglas and he was already talking to Seattle about a trade.

You not knowing who Bryce Hall is should make this conversation irrelevant, but I’ll keep going.

You don’t write off a draft class 4 games into the season, especially a season like this.  It’s f*cking stupid on every level.  You can not like it all you want, he absolutely gets a pass on injuries in a season that had no real off-season conditioning program, no OTAs, a half-assed training camp, and no pre-season. Half the league is being devastated by hamstring injuries.  If he pulled an Idzik and drafted someone with an injury sheet the length of a CVS receipt you’d have a point, but he didn’t and this senseless whining over injuries is nothing more than that; whining.

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2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

For years we wanted a GM that tore it all down the right way, built through the draft, didn’t blow his load on Free Agency, and now that we have a GM that’s doing that, we want to fire him because we’re pissy that we suck.

Also, any competent coaching staff wins Thursday night.  Don’t give me this “anyone would be 0-4 with this roster” bullish*t.

INsert QB there and youhavethe same answer...dont give me no other QB would have Sams results... bs

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7 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

INsert QB there and youhavethe same answer...dont give me no other QB would have Sams results... bs

I’m gonna be honest man.  I get it.  You don’t like Sam.  Enough.  It’s creepily obsessive at this point.  You don’t have to make every single discussion about the guy.  He’ll be gone in April and you’ll have gotten your wish.  I was discussing the point made by another poster regarding coaching and that’s all I’m going to discuss.

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4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’m gonna be honest man.  I get it.  You don’t like Sam.  Enough.  It’s creepily obsessive at this point.  You don’t have to make every single discussion about the guy.  He’ll be gone in April and you’ll have gotten your wish.  I was discussing the point made by another poster regarding coaching and that’s all I’m going to discuss.

sure,can the coaches. fine with me.

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4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This article is almost a carbon copy of what I've been saying all off-season. 

Being called a troll, SOJ and receiving 100's of negative reps (which I don't mind btw.)  

Now, this isn't a victory lap as I was very much hoping to be wrong - but recognition from some of you would be nice :-)

I'm not negative, just a realist.  

I just really hope JD saw it too and was well aware of what he was doing!

 

You're such a troll ?

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46 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Sooooooo you’re going to go with injuries despite the fact that none of them had extensive injury histories in college.

BOLD STRATEGY COTTON.

We might have our LT for the next ten years.  That alone destroys a Maccagnan draft.

Ashtyn Davis, for the record, was an athletic freak of a FS taken where Safeties should be taken.  The pick was made because “Prezzzzzzz” was never going to be paid by Douglas and he was already talking to Seattle about a trade.

You not knowing who Bryce Hall is should make this conversation irrelevant, but I’ll keep going.

You don’t write off a draft class 4 games into the season, especially a season like this.  It’s f*cking stupid on every level.  You can not like it all you want, he absolutely gets a pass on injuries in a season that had no real off-season conditioning program, no OTAs, a half-assed training camp, and no pre-season. Half the league is being devastated by hamstring injuries.  If he pulled an Idzik and drafted someone with an injury sheet the length of a CVS receipt you’d have a point, but he didn’t and this senseless whining over injuries is nothing more than that; whining.

I write off everything the Jets do.

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