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Joe Douglas must share in the blame for this Jets debacle

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5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Great article by Costello pointing out how the offensive line has been no better then last year(when it most certainly has) due to the amount of sacks given up in the last game where the backup LT was responsible for a large portion of those.

Great article.

I posted this on another site that had the same topic....

Wanted to comment on the comments about the improved OL. They graded out worst OL week 1, week 2 and 3 was not much better and well 4 was a disaster, 6 sacks and 10 QB hits.... take out Sam's run and the Jets averaged 2.5 yards per carry Thursday. That is not better then last season.  Frankly, I thought I was watching last years OL for C sake.

Of course everything that has happened this year with all the new moving parts has hurt this team but absolve JD regarding this teams composition is factually incorrect. to Borrow Parcell's analogy, he got the groceries and they aren't that good...

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2 minutes ago, SOJ said:

I posted this on another site that had the same topic....

Wanted to comment on the comments about the improved OL. They graded out worst OL week 1, week 2 and 3 was not much better and well 4 was a disaster, 6 sacks and 10 QB hits.... take out Sam's run and the Jets averaged 2.5 yards per carry Thursday. That is not better then last season.  Frankly, I thought I was watching last years OL for C sake.

Of course everything that has happened this year with all the new moving parts has hurt this team but absolve JD regarding this teams composition is factually incorrect. to Borrow Parcell's analogy, he got the groceries and they aren't that good...

IMO, The only absolution for JD is if this was his plan.
To tank badly and start completely over.  

and if it was his plan than so be it, I don’t love it but I’m on board and okay with it. 

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8 minutes ago, SOJ said:

I posted this on another site that had the same topic....

Wanted to comment on the comments about the improved OL. They graded out worst OL week 1, week 2 and 3 was not much better and well 4 was a disaster, 6 sacks and 10 QB hits.... take out Sam's run and the Jets averaged 2.5 yards per carry Thursday. That is not better then last season.  Frankly, I thought I was watching last years OL for C sake.

Of course everything that has happened this year with all the new moving parts has hurt this team but absolve JD regarding this teams composition is factually incorrect. to Borrow Parcell's analogy, he got the groceries and they aren't that good...

Who graded them?

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6 minutes ago, SOJ said:

I posted this on another site that had the same topic....

Wanted to comment on the comments about the improved OL. They graded out worst OL week 1, week 2 and 3 was not much better and well 4 was a disaster, 6 sacks and 10 QB hits.... take out Sam's run and the Jets averaged 2.5 yards per carry Thursday. That is not better then last season.  Frankly, I thought I was watching last years OL for C sake.

Of course everything that has happened this year with all the new moving parts has hurt this team but absolve JD regarding this teams composition is factually incorrect. to Borrow Parcell's analogy, he got the groceries and they aren't that good...

Graded where?

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The last GM started his tenure by splurging in free agency and via trades in order to put a competitive team around his struggling young QB (who then got his jaw broken and lost his job, but who saw that coming?).  That was probably the only competitive season we've had in the last 10 years.  It had some exciting moments (most notably the OT win late in the season vs. the hated Patriots), and the GM won the Executive of the Year award.  

Here's the thing though - we didn't make the playoffs that year, and the team quickly went into the sh*tter after that, because that's not how you build a team.

I'm not a "let's lose now to win later" type of guy, so I'm not enjoying this season at all - but I recognize the value in what Joe Douglas is trying to accomplish, and I know that some suffering comes with it.

The only argument against this approach that resonates for me is how it's affecting Sam.  Even so, you can't sacrifice the long-term success of the team for one player - even if he plays the most important position in the game.  Plus, as much as I love Sam and hope that he can still be salvageable, one of the characteristics that a great QB needs to have is an iron will that drives him through adversity.  Even if Sam had been given better circumstances and started to thrive, I guarantee you that somewhere on the path between here and a championship, there would be a game where he faced a great defense that shut down his weapons and kicked the crap out of him.   And if he couldn't rise above happy feet and seeing ghosts then, he wouldn't be the guy to finally get us the Lombardi.

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JD has done nothing to impress me. Becton was a no brainer if you were in the market for an OL player. The NY Jets left a lot of playmakers on that board. 

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13 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Who graded them?

Unfortunately, I didn't keep the url so I do not recall but here are the stats.

After one (1) game in 2020:

Rush attempts: 15 - NFL rank 32
Longest run: 8 yards - NFL rank 32
Rushing yards: 52 - NFL rank 31
Tackle for loss: 6 - NFL rank bottom 3rd
Time of possession: 18:44 - NFL rank 32
Penalties: 9 - NFL rank 32
Punts per play (lol): .11 - NFL rank 32

·       Nine (9) penalties. 

 

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4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

JD has done nothing to impress me. Becton was a no brainer if you were in the market for an OL player. The NY Jets left a lot of playmakers on that board. 

Becton was not a no-brainer.  He was considered by some to be a project and some "experts" ranked him much lower on the draft board than where we drafted him.  Some thought Wirfs was a better choice and were disappointed that he wasn't our selection with the other 2 top OTs gone.  Some referenced Becton's supposed lack of "true pass sets" last year and PFF gave him an unimpressive grade as a result (see below).  There was a contingent around here (including myself, admittedly) who thought that he might be better suited to start at RT this year, so he could push people around in the run game and get his feet wet vs. NFL pass rushers.

Quote

Becton is an amazing talent but is incredibly raw. He only played in 73 true pass sets in Louisville’s play-action, screen-pass heavy offense at Louisville. He graded out as the 45th-best offensive tackle in FBS in 2019 with a 79.3 Pro Football Focus grade.

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/23/2020-nfl-draft-instant-analysis-mekhi-becton-massive-frame-jets-revamped-offensive-line/

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I think the Johnsons do have cash flow issues, particularly after all of the big bad contracts (Trumaine, Mosley, Bell, etc.) and JD did not have a mandate to necessarily be better this year.  I think his mandate was build a team through the draft and not overpay for FAs.

Teams that want to compete in the playoffs oftentimes need to overpay for FAs to make a difference.  The Jets were not viewed as that.

What got thrown off the bus was developing Darnold.   The injury situation is out of control.  Perriman over Robby was a mistake under any plan, and GVR was overrated.  If Winters is healthy he may have been better than GVR.  

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In this entire article and in the the thread, the only specific player mentioned that should be in a Jets uniform this season is Anderson.  Who exactly was Douglas supposed to sign that would have made this team better in the long term this offseason?  Robbie Anderson is a marginal #2 starting receiver who is not worth anywhere near the $10 million he sought.  We all know Jamal Adams is not the answer. Seattle is winning, but on the arm of Wilson. The defense, particularly the pass defense, is putrid. They made Cam Newton look like Tom Brady in his prime in week 2.  The OL looked bad Thursday because  they lost 3 starting LTs to injury and played a guard at LT.  And how do you blame him for injured rookies who had no injury history as college players.   Please.  We all knew this was a long rebuild. The 6-2 finish last season was a mirage. As for the running game, the blame falls squarely on Gase and McCagnan.  Bell was a horrible signing and anybody with half a brain and eyes could see that he was a product of the OL and system in Pittsburgh.  And he is injured as well.  Gore tested positive for geritol and, if everything works perfectly for a play, might eek out 7-8 yards max. Why is he even on this team?  Play Perine .  Ballage was and is one of the worst RBs in the NFL.  

And whoever the WR that would have been picked in round 4 instead of Morgan was not saving the season either.  I think we all know at this point that it is a tank season. Again.  

 

This team will not turn around until they hire a coach that can win in the NFL.  When the coach is playing for his job every other season, from Ryan, to Bowles, and now Gase, you get meaningless wins and lose out on key draft picks.  They need to get the HC hire right in the offseason. Douglas deserves at least 2 more offseason to prove himself.  He inherited the worst roster in the NFL in an offseason with a bare free agent cupboard.

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Becton was the polar opposite of no brainer. The “no brainer” O lineman in this class were Andrew Thomas and Tristian Wirfs.  Becton was the boom or bust player.

According to who?  Don’t buy his jersey LOL 

I’m in the market for a  # 16 Lawrence or #7 Mann if I order from China now I might have by the end of the season or the draff. 

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7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I also think a lot depends on if Woody comes back. 

Woody was very much focused on PR, much more so than his brother.  And Woody won't be attached to Gase the way CJ is. 

OMG now you're pulling for Woody????? 🥴

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6 hours ago, TheClashFan said:

Here's how I'll apportion the blame right now (of course, the owners are 100% responsible for all of this):

Mac 70%

Gase 20%

JD 10%

JD's share will grow over time. Mac had 4 years and 5 drafts, so his shadow still looms large over this mess. Gase is working with garbage, but still the whole notion that he's some sort of "brilliant" football mind seems silly. 

JD really should have tried to secure one really good FA OL. I guess he thought that McGovern was that.  Fant and Van Roten were "hold the fort" guys, but VR has been awful so far. To be fair, I expected the OL to struggle early but gradually get better. The run blocking so far is atrocious, and Sam is under lots of pressure. 

In the draft, he should have focused hard on building around Sam...so double dip at WR and OL with the first four picks. He did well with the trade downs and the first two picks, but then sort of took "flyers" on defensive guys in round three: a raw safety and injury prone DE.  I think he did that one round too early. He tried to draft a little bit of everything instead of focusing on the offense more early. There's some bad luck with all the injures, but some of his picks need to get healthy and contribute a bit as the season progresses or that 10% grows. 

You can't fix everything with one draft, but so far his first draft has fixed little...maybe just LT. He's really fumbled WR badly.

 

I wholeheartedly agree!  You're assigning JD 10% of the blame which means he's gotten 90% of his job right.  :) 

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7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

For years we wanted a GM that tore it all down the right way, built through the draft, didn’t blow his load on Free Agency, and now that we have a GM that’s doing that, we want to fire him because we’re pissy that we suck.

Also, any competent coaching staff wins Thursday night.  Don’t give me this “anyone would be 0-4 with this roster” bullsh*t.

Idzik had the exact same strategy. And so far, the results are the same. Actually, worse.

 

In fact, the similarities between the two are very striking. Stuck with a coach they didnt pick, traded away our best defensive player, want to build through the draft, signing tons of journeymen and underachievers to prove it deals.

 

Other than becton im struggling to think of a single move that Douglas has made that has shown positive results. Pretty much every single FA signing he has made has been horrid, his entire draft class sans a punter is injured and not playing.

 

What exactly has Joe Douglas done so far that shows he knows what he is doing? This team is an absolute embarrassment and has objectively gotten worse under Douglas.

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11 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Idzik had the exact same strategy. And so far, the results are the same. Actually, worse.

 

In fact, the similarities between the two are very striking. Stuck with a coach they didnt pick, traded away our best defensive player, want to build through the draft, signing tons of journeymen and underachievers to prove it deals.

 

Other than becton im struggling to think of a single move that Douglas has made that has shown positive results. Pretty much every single FA signing he has made has been horrid, his entire draft class sans a punter is injured and not playing.

 

What exactly has Joe Douglas done so far that shows he knows what he is doing? This team is an absolute embarrassment and has objectively gotten worse under Douglas.

If you think that whiffing on 12 draft picks in one of the most loaded classes in recent memory is the same thing as Douglas’s first draft class, there isn’t a discussion to be had here.  

Anyone looking to call this entire draft class a bust 4 games in because of soft tissue injuries in a year unlike any other is, quite frankly, brain dead.  You all want microwaved results.  It’s not happening.  Maccagnan is gone and so are the days of throwing big money at free agents that don’t deserve it.  It’s going to take more than one off-season.  

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8 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If you think that whiffing on 12 draft picks in one of the most loaded classes in recent memory is the same thing as Douglas’s first draft class, there isn’t a discussion to be had here.  

Anyone looking to call this entire draft class a bust 4 games in because of soft tissue injuries in a year unlike any other is, quite frankly, brain dead.  You all want microwaved results.  It’s not happening.  Maccagnan is gone and so are the days of throwing big money at free agents that don’t deserve it.  It’s going to take more than one off-season.  

Who said it was the same drafts? 

 

But if you're going to sit here with a straight face and tell us you think Joe Douglas has done a good job so far, you're delusional.

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8 hours ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

He's cute, even with the Gasey eyes. But why Henry? Funny name for a dog. 😄

He just looked like a Henry. He's a rescue, and his previous name was Nikko. I went, "Nikko? As in snazzy Nicole . . . or something? Your name is not Charlene, it's Charlie. Nah, forget that one, Charlie is too common. Now I know Kerry, Ryan, Gale (I actually adore that name for a guy), Jamie, and Terry are all interchangeable, but how about a regular ole boys name . . . like Henry! Oh, right, you're neutered, whatever then." : /

SIDE-NOTE NAMING STORY: When my SIL was pregnant years ago, she and my BIL (he's my favorite in the old man's family. Why? He's bitter) were struggling with baby names. I have never had such struggles because I have dogs, not babies. Anyway, her maiden name was Ryan. She is as Irish as the day is long and also born on St. Paddy's Day. They were bickering about names and she came out with, "Keep it up, Joe, because pretty soon that baby's birth certificate is gonna say FIRST NAME: Ryan. MIDDLE NAME: Ryan. LAST NAME: Ryan. RYAN RYAN RYAN!" Hahaha.

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13 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Who said it was the same drafts? 

But if you're going to sit here with a straight face and tell us you think Joe Douglas has done a good job so far, you're delusional.

Joe Douglas is in stage one of a total rebuild because of last two GMs couldn’t draft for sh*t and one of them blew over 200 million dollars in cap space on terrible free agents during his tenure here.  I’m not going to judge Douglas one way or another.  If we still suck after his contract is almost up, I’ll criticize him.  The only delusional people on this forum are those that thought that this was just going to be a one year fix.

 

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Just now, Mogglez said:

Joe Douglas is in stage one of a total rebuild because of last two GMs couldn’t draft for sh*t and one of them blew over 200 million dollars in cap space on terrible free agents during his tenure here.  I’m not going to judge Douglas one way or another.  If, after his contract is almost up, we still suck, I’ll criticize him.  The only delusional people on this forum are those that thought that this was just going to be a one year fix.

If you need 4-5 years to tell if a GM is doing a good job , you shouldn't be discussing football.

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Sure, but no one is going to care if his draft picks pan out.

His plan is sound. We just have to hope he can draft. 

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4 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

If you need 4-5 years to tell if a GM is doing a good job , you shouldn't be discussing football.

Using your brilliant football evaluation skills and logic, Maccagnan should have been given a 10 year contract after year one.

Fortunately the smart people don’t think like you.

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Just now, joewilly12 said:

JOE MUST GO why the hell not. 

hugh laurie facepalm GIF

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7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Sam Darnold is not who Joe Douglas is building around.

Good that means another wasted first round draft pick.  

We have to lead the NFL in that category. 

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1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

hugh laurie facepalm GIF

C'MON MAN other than a Punter and a list of players on the IR what has he done. 

The NY Jets are 0-4 

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Just now, joewilly12 said:

C'MON MAN other than a Punter and a list of players on the IR what has he done. 

The NY Jets are 0-4 

Mekhi Becton doesn’t count?  You’re gonna blame the injuries on him when none of the players had injury histories in college?  You aren’t gonna attribute it to no off-season conditioning or pre-season?

Joe.  It’s year one of a rebuild.  He’s got a 6 year contract.  Relax.

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4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Good that means another wasted first round draft pick.  

We have to lead the NFL in that category. 

Blame Maccagnan.

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Just now, Mogglez said:

Mekhi Becton doesn’t count?  You’re gonna blame the injuries on him when none of the players had injury histories in college?  You aren’t gonna attribute it to no off-season conditioning or pre-season?

Joe.  It’s year one of a rebuild.  He’s got a 6 year contract.  Relax.

I know buddy Becton is a BEAST but all the playmakers around the NFL scoring TD's and well then there's us. 

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Just now, joewilly12 said:

I know buddy Becton is a BEAST but all the playmakers around the NFL scoring TD's and well then there's us. 

Give it time pal.

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I feel we need to wait and see how Joe's draft picks like Mimms and Perine look going forward.  Hopefully they will get on the field so we can evaluate.    He has been dealt a coach with no management skills and a QB that has trouble reading defenses.

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Regarding the draft class, you can't seriously grade Douglas 4 games into their rookie season (particularly since most of them haven't played due to injuries). Becton seems to be a massive hit so far. Mann seems .... ok, I guess. He's not Shane Lechler already, but he might be soon. 

Free agency is where he deserves serious criticism. 

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/82501/new-york-jets-2020-nfl-free-agent-signings-ot-george-fant-a-big-gamble

Perriman - This was a vanity pick where he wanted to justify a selection he was probably involved in while Douglas was in Baltimore. Counting on Perriman to be a starter was negligent. Bottom line. PFF ranks him 105 out of 120 WRs. 

Greg Van Roten - No one expected him to be John Hannah, but the expectation was that GVR would be an average starter. He has been poor, ranked 52nd out of 76 guards. 

McGovern - The Jets big ticket OL signing is ranked 33 out of 34 centers in the NFL. If he doesn't turn it around soon, this looks like another mistake at OL (where Douglas is supposed to be an expert). 

George Fant - So far, this is Douglas's best signing. Some (including myself) criticized this signing, but Fant has been decent at RT. You can win with Fant at RT. Ranked 48 out of 71. 

Alex Lewis - He's been playing well. Ranked 21st at the position. 

Poole - Having another good season ranked 7th at CB in the NFL. Considering how bad the rest of the secondary has been, Douglas's cheap a$$ should be working on extending Poole right now. 

Hewitt - Getting the most that he can out of below average talent. He's decent for what he is. 

Maulet - hurt

Andrews - Meh for a backup

Desir - He has been awful so far (61 out of 100), but he was hurt all of camp, so he is essentially has been playing preseason games so far. Let's pray he turns it on now (he did have 2 picks last week). 

Jordan Jenkins - Brought him back cheap, but Jenkins has offered nothing in the pass rush game this year. He should start losing pass rush reps to JFM, Huff and Zuniga. 

Patrick Onwuasor - He's been hurt and the Jets are really missing his athleticism (along with Cashman and Mosely). 

McDougal (trade) - he has been awful so far (64 out of 75 and blew a stop at the GL last week). He needs to start losing reps to Davis and Fairley. 

As I was going through this, it was a stark reminder of how badly injured the Jets have been. I know that everyone is dealing with injuries, but the Jets were particularly sensitive to the injuries because the team has no depth due to Maccagnan sucking moose ba!!s for 5 years. I still think this team might start surprising some people once they get healthy (but hopefully not well enough to bring back Gase in 2021). 

 

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11 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Joe Douglas must share in the blame for this Jets debacle

October 3, 2020 | 2:05am

 
 

The list of culprits in this Jets debacle is a long one.

You can start with head coach Adam Gase, if you like, and it now feels inevitable that he will pay with his job at some point. You can cast blame on owner Christopher Johnson, who picked or stuck with the decision-makers who got the Jets to this point. You can blame quarterback Sam Darnold for continuing to look like he is spinning his wheels and not progressing. You can blame former general manager Mike Maccagnan for being terrible at procuring talent. You can blame the players for playing dumb football.

All of that is fair.

Just don’t forget one person who has largely escaped blame this season, but deserves some — Joe Douglas. No one expected Douglas to work miracles when he was hired in June 2019. Douglas has a long-term rebuilding project on his hands. He got a scholarship year last season because he was hired after free agency and the draft. This year, the expectation was for moderate improvement to the roster, filling some of the holes on the team and putting together a respectable group.

The early returns have not been good.

Enlarge Image

Douglas’ rebuilt offensive line does not look better than the group that played in the second half of last season. On Thursday night, Darnold was sacked six times. The Broncos entered the game with four sacks in their first three games. Beyond the pass protection, there are no holes for the running backs. If you remove Darnold’s rushing yards, the Jets averaged 2.5 yards per carry Thursday.

Douglas took a calculated risk in free agency this year. He stayed away from the big-money players, choosing instead to shop for discounts to stock his offensive line. He signed George Fant, Greg Van Roten and Connor McGovern at discount prices. Douglas’ philosophy is one he took from his mentor, Ozzie Newsome, with the Ravens — “right player, right price.” It means rarely spending big. It is a sound strategy that creates cap-space flexibility in the future, but you had better get your player evaluations right. At the moment, it feels Douglas overestimated on the line, particularly with Van Roten and McGovern.

Then, you look at wide receiver. Douglas let Robby Anderson walk in free agency, which has really hurt Darnold and the offense. No one is confusing Anderson with Jerry Rice, but he is an effective receiver who rarely misses games. Anderson already has two 100-yard receiving games for the Panthers, who signed him to a reasonable two-year, $20 million contract. That is a deal the Jets should have matched. Instead, they signed Breshad Perriman on the cheap ($6.5 million) and they’ve gotten what they paid for, because Perriman has missed two games and most of a third. He has just five catches so far.

 

Another of Douglas’ free-agent signings who had an eventful night Thursday is cornerback Pierre Desir, whom the Jets signed for $3.75 million. Desir allowed two touchdowns and had two interceptions, one returned for a touchdown. Despite those plays, Desir has been a liability in coverage so far.

 
 

 

These roster shortcomings have left the Jets with no margin for error. They need to play near-perfect football to win. If they commit too many penalties, as they did Thursday, they’re doomed. If they drop passes, they’re screwed. If they stall in the red zone, it will bite them in the butt.

image.gif.8f4f8871b7c4c133ce46f3504070d994.gif

 

No one is arguing that Gase is doing a good job. But anyone looking at this objectively can see he has been entered into a gun battle with a water pistol. Gase was asked Friday if this team has enough talent. He said he expects a lot of players back from injured reserve this week to help.

“And our guys, they have to do a good job of sticking together and blocking out any outside noise and getting better every day in practice,” Gase said. “I talked to all those guys today about [how] fracturing is not an option. We’re four games in, we’ve got to do a good job of putting our head down, going to work, correcting the mistakes, fixing the stuff that’s absolutely non-talent based and doing those things right first, and then your outcome is going to be different.”

Plenty of people have their fingerprints on this 0-4 start, from the players to ownership and everyone in between — including Douglas.

image.gif

Thank you!!!

JD doesn’t deserve a pass and personally what he did to sam with giving him nothing is criminal

 

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