Joe Douglas must share in the blame for this Jets debacle

[kevinc855]

10 hours ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Joe Douglas has not been perfect, but he's going to be allot better than what we've been used to. He's going to build a respectable team at the very least.

Based on what? Read the article. His moves have been fair to bad so far if you look at them

[CanadaSteve]

No.....No he doesn't

This is getting VERY VERY VERY old.

[CanadaSteve]

11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

 

Now, this isn't a victory lap

You are right....it isn't a victory lap, since you didn't win anything.  

[Beerfish]

GMs in the end are measured on their draft success.  We need to see some of these guys get on the filed it is as simple as that.

I won't go back on my thought he needed to draft at least one more wr if not two.  He has a 3rd round pick who has been hurt all the time and a 4th round Qb pick that in my mind was suspect seeing as who was there for the jets.

[bitonti]

Everyone said the line was trash yet beachum shell winters and even Dakota dozier are all starting for other teams

 

Sam is the trash and fans complain about the line because they can't face it

 

He's been trash the entire time

 

 

 

 

[kevinc855]

11 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Almost total BS.  I recall the FA period and other than overpaying Fant (who seems to be holding his own) I don't remember there being any FA's worth chasing.  This ain't Madden. 

Oh yeah one other thing, counting on Perriman who has an injury hx wasn't all that smart.  Also it's my understanding that JD did match the offer Anderson got but Anderson opted out. 

IMHO the OL woes have more to do with the lack of a preseason than anything else.   

We pushed Anderson to that point being cheap skates which as the article points out is JDs thing. We coulda payed him and been done with. Apparently JD thinks he knows better, yet so far with nothing to prove for it 

[Jetsfan80]

12 hours ago, peebag said:

What evidence points to that?

He was the most well-respected GM candidate to actually take this job in decades, and we're not going to be able to hire one with a better pedigree or of a higher caliber than him until the Johnson's sell the team.  He worked his way up with 2 quality, Super Bowl-winning organizations, and his previous employer hated to lose him.

Like him or not, its sink or swim time with Joe Douglas.  Whether you think he's "the guy" or not, he has at least 3 more drafts to turn the ship around. 

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He was the most well-respected GM candidate to actually take this job in decades, and we're not going to be able to hire one with a better pedigree or of a higher caliber than him until the Johnson's sell the team.  He worked his way up with 2 quality, Super Bowl-winning organizations, and his previous employer hated to lose him.

Like him or not, its sink or swim time with Joe Douglas.  Whether you think he's "the guy" or not, he has at least 3 more drafts to turn the ship around. 

He will probably get all 6 years of that contract.

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

So he goes ham next year in free agency and draft, surrounding his HC and new QB with weaponz galore??

Why is this so far-fetched?  We're already seeing major cracks in the NFL armor when it comes to COVID, which could drop the cap all the way down to $175M next season.  We're going to be one of a handful of teams in good shape cap-wise.

[Jetsfan80]

8 hours ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Has anyone figured out the Morgan pick? Why was he drafted, how did he do in practice and when will we see him next?

Because Sam Darnold isn't he guy, and Douglas knew that before most here did.  

New regimes always mean new QB's.  Especially when the new regime doesn't believe in the current QB.

As for how Morgan is doing, camp reports were mostly positive from what I recall.  But like all rookies this year, the shortened offseason and no preseason was pretty detrimental.  Hence why I'm not upset that Flacco is here.  Let Flacco take some lumps until Morgan is ready to get game action.

[CanadaSteve]

I love how everyone thinks that a 4th round WR would be making all the difference in the world.  How about we see what Morgan can do before we want yet ANOTHER GM here.  How about we see what Mims can do as a WR?  How about we see if Clark can take one of the Guard positions? How about we let Douglas draft three times, and see where the team is at?  

If you have been in it this long, you should be willing to let this play out and see what happens.  If the team is pissing you off that much, don't watch this year.  Its only going to get worse.  Come back next year and see what we look like then.  Its working for me quite nicely.  This season was NEVER going to be competitive. You can't draft terribly for 7 straight years and NOT have it any other way.

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

I love how everyone thinks that a 4th round WR would be making all the difference in the world.  How about we see what Morgan can do before we want yet ANOTHER GM here.  How about we see what Mims can do as a WR?  How about we see if Clark can take one of the Guard positions? How about we let Douglas draft three times, and see where the team is at?  

If you have been in it this long, you should be willing to let this play out and see what happens.  If the team is pissing you off that much, don't watch this year.  Its only going to get worse.  Come back next year and see what we look like then.  Its working for me quite nicely.  This season was NEVER going to be competitive. You can't draft terribly for 7 straight years and NOT have it any other way.

Problem is he so far drafty terribly this year. 

[redlichtie]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Mekhi Becton doesn’t count?  You’re gonna blame the injuries on him when none of the players had injury histories in college?  You aren’t gonna attribute it to no off-season conditioning or pre-season?

Joe.  It’s year one of a rebuild.  He’s got a 6 year contract.  Relax.

This is not strictly true. Mims played with a broken hand his junior year. If anything it showed great toughness to not miss any significant playing time but he had an injury history in college. Ashtyn Davis missed his senior bowl game and the entire offseason programme including combine with a groin Injury and I believe also missed a couple of games as a sophomore with a foot injury so he had an injury history in college. Zuniga needs no explanation, he had an injury history in college and we have yet to see anything of Bryce Hall because of a very severe ankle injury. So to say none of these guys had any injury history is inaccurate.

Either way it’s largely irrelevant, they are injured now and we clearly have an organisational problem in terms of conditioning or practice habits or something...largely that falls on Gase and his staff but as GM, Douglas doesn’t get to hide from this either. He’s responsible for this too. His job is to make sure the roster he puts together can get on the field, that the staff in the building are competent and capable of getting them on the field and that the conditions the players have to practice in are not the cause of the issue. As GM it’s absolutely his job to be getting to the bottom of this epidemic of injuries.

Totally agree with your point about this year being like no other and that injuries seem to be an issue around the league but this problem extends back to last year when that excuse doesn’t apply and it’s almost beyond a joke with our team, literally every game we are losing people. Something is clearly very amiss at One Jets Drive and the GM is as responsible as anyone in addressing that issue in my opinion.

All that said we are 4 games in and this draft class, like every other, needs to be given a chance. Becton looks good, hopefully he gets back to full health quickly, would be good to see Cameron Clark at LG because Alex Lewis is meh, We need to see Mims at some point but he’s missed almost all of camp so it’s tough to expect anything much out of him this year at all, ?We desperately  need Zuniga to show up and be something, I thought Bryce Huff showed some flashes(as did Lamar Jackson) but we need to see a lot more. Is Bryce Hall the same player he was before the injury? What have we got with Davis? We are being screwed every which way right now.

It’s also tough for a rookie to shine when everything around him is a sh!tshow, it’s far easier to slot in and be successful in an already well oiled machine with capable veteran players that are causing opposing teams headaches. That’s not the case with us and again that falls a squarely on Douglas as anyone

If these guys start to come back before the season is out and show up that’s a good thing although it will get mighty interesting if we win a few games in the process because that just illustrates that Gase was screwed over with a terrible roster and backs up any argument he has to be retained, which is going to give a few posters on here a mighty conundrum to wrestle with.

Nobody should seriously be looking to bin off JD at this point, that’s ludicrous, but the argument is that he absolutely does not get a free pass for any of this and that for him the honeymoon is over. His early returns are not impressive and the onus on him is to step up and prove he’s got what it takes to execute his grand plan(whatever that is). It’s easy to have a plan, but being good enough to actually make it work is another thing altogether. As of now I remain to be convinced.

 

[kevinc855]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He was the most well-respected GM candidate to actually take this job in decades, and we're not going to be able to hire one with a better pedigree or of a higher caliber than him until the Johnson's sell the team.  He worked his way up with 2 quality, Super Bowl-winning organizations, and his previous employer hated to lose him.

Like him or not, its sink or swim time with Joe Douglas.  Whether you think he's "the guy" or not, he has at least 3 more drafts to turn the ship around. 

Yes let’s beat our heads against the wall for 3 more years. Sounds great 

[kevinc855]

Here’s the thing I don’t think JD gets....this is New York where you go from hero to zero quickly, I mean just look at this forum and sam darnold. 3 years ago he was the savior now people are already moving on...

JD took a calculated risk. He let quality players go and signed gap fillers on the cheap banking on some picks working out. So far his picks haven’t contributed at all with the exception of Bechton and in fairness it’s hard to screw up high first round picks. 
 

I think JD came in here with to much swag. Thinking he can do whatever he wants. To build his own team. But the problem is he stripped this team so much of talent that this could be a 1-15 team. Fans and the NY media only will put up with that for so long. 

JD needs to rethink his plan and find some quality players in FA mixed with some good picks. If his picks for JA don’t pan out he’s finished. He will get another year or two for sure. If the Jets aren’t in the playoffs in the next 2 seasons however we have yet another failed Jet GM.

Whats tanny up to?

[bla bla bla]

My black marks against Douglas right now:

- not retaining Robby

 

After that I'm not sure where to go. There were no WRs in FA to be had and no one had any idea Hopkins was on the trade block. I loved CeeDee Lamb coming out but LT was 100% the correct decision. McGovern was a top 10 Center last year, I can't explain how he went from that to worst center in the league. Van Roten seems like the easiest piece to swap out after the season.

I can't blame him for trading Jamal, he shot his way out of town and left us with no choice + the compensation was fantastic. Mosley opting out was crushing for this team. He was the reason many of us felt alright losing Jamal.

I'm just looking towards our rookies to see if Douglas is the draft guy that everyone believes him to be but we haven't seen half the draft class yet with Mims, Zuniga, Clark, and Hall on IR

[Losmeister]

iirc,someone statedthat looking at the 1st 4 as pre-season was prolly the way to approach the year.

i mean these count. so yeah. it sucks. but...its about evaluation going forward.

[maury77]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

My black marks against Douglas right now:

- not retaining Robby

 

After that I'm not sure where to go. There were no WRs in FA to be had and no one had any idea Hopkins was on the trade block. I loved CeeDee Lamb coming out but LT was 100% the correct decision. McGovern was a top 10 Center last year, I can't explain how he went from that to worst center in the league. Van Roten seems like the easiest piece to swap out after the season.

I can't blame him for trading Jamal, he shot his way out of town and left us with no choice + the compensation was fantastic. Mosley opting out was crushing for this team. He was the reason many of us felt alright losing Jamal.

I'm just looking towards our rookies to see if Douglas is the draft guy that everyone believes him to be but we haven't seen half the draft class yet with Mims, Zuniga, Clark, and Hall on IR

The thing about Robby is ... I'm not sure he was willing to come back. Maybe he just wanted to play for Rule instead of Gase (can you blame him?)

Regarding signing other WRs, we forget that he did sign Doctson (yeah, I know he sucks, but he is an NFL caliber receiver), but he opted out. 

Aside from that, if you look at what was available, it was slim pickings: https://nfltraderumors.co/2019-nfl-free-agents-list/

Where Douglas really messed up was not using another pick on day 2 for a WR. 

[Lizard King]

JD needs money. You can’t go buy Sam a burner receiver when CJ is taking 55 mil. 

[CanadaSteve]

7 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Problem is he so far drafty terribly this year. 

Yeah....okay.

[SAR I]

18 hours ago, Larz said:

Ok that’s settled. Now what?

When do you think we’ll wear the all-green uniforms?

SAR I

[Gastineau Lives]

21 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

A message board classic.  I've been on sports message boards since I was a teenager and one thing I know to be true is if someone says " I'm not such and such, I'm just a realist" they are generally the farthest thing from realistic as it gets.

It's funny how it's only negativity that get's branded as realism. I've never heard:

"We're awesome! I'm not being positive. I'm just a REALIST."

[T0mShane]

Pretty pissed Douglas didn’t give $20 mil per to Jadeveon Clowney and Jamal Adams to play 12 games for the Jets during COVID Asterisk season. Would of really placated me, a scholarly educated football fan with a firm grip on reality and a keen, analytical eye for the near future.

[Creepy Lurker]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty pissed Douglas didn’t give $20 mil per to Jadeveon Clowney and Jamal Adams to play 12 games for the Jets during COVID Asterisk season. Would of really placated me, a scholarly educated football fan with a firm grip on reality and a keen, analytical eye for the near future.

I’m pissed that he ruined a great roster that wasn’t an abomination and in shambles. We didn’t have a team that was built completely backwards at all. It’s almost like tearing it down was the only option.

We had a leader of men box safety that surely would have solved all of our problems. I’d rather have Jamal Adams than 3 starters (his salary towards a free agent, 2 1st round picks). Yeah, Jamal definitely made more sense to keep considering the current state of the roster.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

The thing about Robby is ... I'm not sure he was willing to come back. Maybe he just wanted to play for Rule instead of Gase (can you blame him?)

Regarding signing other WRs, we forget that he did sign Doctson (yeah, I know he sucks, but he is an NFL caliber receiver), but he opted out. 

Aside from that, if you look at what was available, it was slim pickings: https://nfltraderumors.co/2019-nfl-free-agents-list/

Where Douglas really messed up was not using another pick on day 2 for a WR. 

We all know that Robby is not known for his intellectual prowess, but even he knew to get the hell away from this sh*tshow. I don’t think he was considering the Jets at all. If he can figure out that we are a black hole, everyone can. We have become a blacklisted team. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I’m pissed that he ruined a great roster that wasn’t an abomination and in shambles. We didn’t have a team that was built completely backwards at all. It’s almost like tearing it down was the only option.

We had a leader of men box safety that surely would have solved all of our problems. I’d rather have Jamal Adams than 3 starters (his salary towards a free agent, 2 1st round picks). Yeah, Jamal definitely made more sense to keep considering the current state of the roster.

And even though that scrappy 210 lb ILB is injured this week and can’t play for the worst defense in football, you have to remember that undersized players who play at the line of scrimmage always have long, fruitful, and healthy careers.

[Gastineau Lives]

Why anyone would have anything to do with a NY sports team is beyond me.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why is this so far-fetched?  We're already seeing major cracks in the NFL armor when it comes to COVID, which could drop the cap all the way down to $175M next season.  We're going to be one of a handful of teams in good shape cap-wise.

Wasn’t saying otherwise. Just asking. 
Gonna need all that cash with the way this season is going. Gonna be hard to attract anyone to an 0-16 team. 

[Creepy Lurker]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

And even though that scrappy 210 lb ILB is injured this week and can’t play for the worst defense in football, you have to remember that undersized players who play at the line of scrimmage always have long, fruitful, and healthy careers.

But seriously, NO ONE gets a pass and they have to earn respect. Joe Douglas has a 6 year contract because this team is a complete disaster. Taking this job was probably career suicide. I’m willing to give him a chance because he seems like a long term builder but so far, most of his moves have not worked out at all.
 

I’m personally fine with everything because this year finally put out the few remaining embers of the delusional fire that was us being competitive or Sam being the guy. Blow it the f*ck up and let him do his job. We literally have no other choice. 

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Joe Douglas has a 6 year contract

With all due respect @Creepy Lurker  JD has a 6 year contract because the Johnson brothers are morons. 

@T0mShane SUCK IT YOU AND THAT DOWN VOTE THUMB

[Creepy Lurker]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

With all due respect @Creepy Lurker  JD has a 6 year contract because the Johnson brothers are morons. 

They are worse than morons but it’s because they were desperate and rightfully so. No way in hell he was coming here for anything less because it was a HUGE career gamble. This is the worst place in the NFL to be by far. It’s career suicide. He’ll either slowly and gradually dig us out of this deep hole, or he won’t and at least be set financially.

I understand exactly why Douglas demanded it and anyone that thinks this team can be turned around quickly, is completely wrong. This roster was absolutely destroyed by Mac. It was worse than intentional sabotage.

We are completely f*cked and have to be patient even though we’ve been patient for 10 years. That’s not the fault of Joe Douglas(yet), thats 110% on the owners. Chris is way worse than Woody so I blame him more. It’s basically hopeless. 

[CanadienJetsFan]

JD should have just come out and said that he’ll need time to re-build/ re-tool this roster. Kind of like what the New York Rangers did a few seasons ago.

Fans would have appreciated the transparency. 

As for the Robbie non signing, well we’d have to wait to see what a healthy Mims and / or Perriman Would be able to produce before rendering a final decision.

Anyway, I didn’t expect many wins this season. Many questions will be answered like how good is our secondary? Linebackers? Pass rushers? O-line? WRs? TEs? 

But the first and definitely most important issue is Sam and Gase. here’s where it gets really sticky. JD has the ear of the owner and so does Gase. Are JD and Gase on the Sam page when it comes to Sam? Let’s say JD doesn’t like the way Gase has handled Sam’s development. Will he be able to convince CJ to fire Gase? I just don’t know.

On the flip side, Does JD think he can build a winning franchise around Sam? We don’t know. Drafting James Morgan tells us that he does have some doubts. 

So I know that I know nothing. I do know that’s it’s too early.

 

 

[Ohhthepain]

Besides the Perriman for Anderson downgrade, (which I was screamed at was an immense upgrade and Perriman was Jerry Rice 2.0), and not drafting a 2nd WR in the draft none of this is JDs fault. His neglect of the WR position is my only knock. Hes biulding the team the right way and its gonna hurt in the beginning because we are truly a horrific team. 

[SAR I]

41 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Why anyone would have anything to do with a NY sports team is beyond me.

The Yankees rebuild took about a year and the Rangers rebuild is years ahead of schedule.  You have to respect what the Islanders are doing.

You need a Top 10 GM, you need a little luck, and you need money.  The Jets are a wealthy franchise, have been very unlucky, and keep investing in high-risk bottom-of-the barrel executive talent.  We don't have Brian Cashman, Glen Sather, or Lou Lamoriello.  Or maybe we do.  It's Joe Douglas' first year.

SAR I

[BROOKLYN JET]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Yankees rebuild took about a year and the Rangers rebuild is years ahead of schedule.  You have to respect what the Islanders are doing.

You need a Top 10 GM, you need a little luck, and you need money.  The Jets are a wealthy franchise, have been very unlucky, and keep investing in high-risk bottom-of-the barrel executive talent.  We don't have Brian Cashman, Glen Sather, or Lou Lamoriello.  Or maybe we do.  It's Joe Douglas' first year.

SAR I

Glen Sather is gone, Jeff Gorton and John Davidson are running things now.