Jump to content

The QB Thread


maury77

Recommended Posts

My problem with the main board is that people are taking prospect discussion too personally. Pointing out flaws is akin to invalidating their opinion, which is just exhausting to deal with and often not worth the hassle. I've done a lot of looking at Zach Wilson games to just try to get myself into the idea of what he brings if we draft him.

I can see the talent he brings to the table, certainly, but it hasn't done much to assuage the concerns I have about the competition he faced and lack of consistent production outside of this year. Flat out, I think that JT O'Sullivan video nails this one fact: he throws too many jump balls when it's not necessary. The talent factor is that the accuracy on a lot of throws are just knock your socks of impressive, but it doesn't stop the fact that some of those are picks or knocked down at the next level. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Sympathy 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, I'd love for people to take a step back when discussing processing speed for Wilson vs Fields. There's absolutely very little chance the people on this board claiming to know this have anything to back this up other than parroting people closer to the situation's opinions. The way that narrative is right now makes it sound like Wilson is some sort of savant and Fields is dumber than a bag of rocks when the answer is highly likely to be people are just projecting based off of the responsibilities they were given in their respective offensive systems.

  • Upvote 3
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

My problem with the main board is that people are taking prospect discussion too personally. Pointing out flaws is akin to invalidating their opinion, which is just exhausting to deal with and often not worth the hassle. I've done a lot of looking at Zach Wilson games to just try to get myself into the idea of what he brings if we draft him.

I can see the talent he brings to the table, certainly, but it hasn't done much to assuage the concerns I have about the competition he faced and lack of consistent production outside of this year. Flat out, I think that JT O'Sullivan video nails this one fact: he throws too many jump balls when it's not necessary. The talent factor is that the accuracy on a lot of throws are just knock your socks of impressive, but it doesn't stop the fact that some of those are picks or knocked down at the next level. 

To which I say... are you sure? You can believe that but it’s not necessarily true. That first throw against Houston is perfectly placed. The CB has no shot to intercept that, a better CB might get a PBU but that’s a stretch. The placement and speed on the ball makes it so that the play by the CB has to be spectacular. Wilson shows that he understands leverage enough to throw to covered receivers giving then the best chance to make a play. He rarely requires his WR to jump over the defenders and “moss” the defender.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

To which I say... are you sure? You can believe that but it’s not necessarily true. That first throw against Houston is perfectly placed. The CB has no shot to intercept that, a better CB might get a PBU but that’s a stretch. The placement and speed on the ball makes it so that the play by the CB has to be spectacular. Wilson shows that he understands leverage enough to throw to covered receivers giving then the best chance to make a play. He rarely requires his WR to jump over the defenders and “moss” the defender.

I don't have an issue with his ball placement, mine is with the fact that those throws require absolute precision, but they're called jump balls for a reason. Over time, I think some of that can catch up with him. But either way, it's hard to say what an NFL DB would be able to do in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I don't have an issue with his ball placement, mine is with the fact that those throws require absolute precision, but they're called jump balls for a reason. Over time, I think some of that can catch up with him. But either way, it's hard to say what an NFL DB would be able to do in general.

Well that’s the leap of faith with any QB prospect. I will argue for Wilson and Fields and Lawrence because they’re all something that this team can build upon. Neither is perfect but they all have plus skills that look like they’ll translate. My issue with the criticism of Wilson is that I don’t buy “sure he was insanely accurate but an NFL DB would’ve got there” that can’t really be quantified and it’s speculative. 

In the end, I understand the talent level critique and that makes sense to me as a reason to doubt the player.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/31/2021 at 10:56 AM, johnnysd said:

Yep he is not perfect and still needs coaching. I am sure his coaches did not use any of those plays for coaching opportunities. It is also not like even the elite NFL QBs miss reads all the time...I mean in almost every game there are 3 or 4 plays where "blah blah was wide open" on that play but he didn't see him. 

Favre by the way loved the second window slant because the defender allows separation after the first window when the defender expects the ball to be thrown. 

The swing pass was bad. I have acknowledged that is a weakness he needs to fix, and even in his pro day missed a couple similar passes? Can he be coached out of it? Are you suggesting he should not be picked because he needs to work on that pass?

He also shows a number of exceptional throws.

I mean are you really expecting him to be a perfect prospect to be picked? JT could also do a nit picky video of any of the QBs and most would be worse.

On the one where he threw the swing where JT insists he should have thrown to the middle it looks like from Zack's view point the defender would have been in his line and looked like he was double covered..

He underthrew the go to the left? Does any QB in the NFL not under/over throw QBs?

IMO JT made this video for clicks for those who dislike Zack and want confirmation. 

It is what it is. If you do not like Wilson this will validate your dislike, if you like Wilson you will see all of it as coachable with several really elite plays thrown in.

Also, it completely ignores all the times he did make the right read and find the open guy. He did that pretty consistently.

I have no idea why someone would like Fields more but that is just me. All just opinions. I could be wrong.

 

I'm sorry dude but wow.  For months, you've talked about how he's flawless, the greatest college QB you've ever seen, better then Trevor Lawrence, as cant miss as you can get.  Now, suddenly, everything we've all been saying for months about very serious flaws in his game that you refused to acknowledge has been laid out for you on full display and now you're at the conclusion he's not perfect, needs development and it's no big deal he misses reads and throws and everything else, because hey, other QB's in the NFL do it too!!!  LoL  but yo,!!!!! All these other guys, not named Zach Wilson, if they have these terrible habits and the put that garbage on tape, it's the death of them as as prospect.

 

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

My problem with the main board is that people are taking prospect discussion too personally. Pointing out flaws is akin to invalidating their opinion, which is just exhausting to deal with and often not worth the hassle. I've done a lot of looking at Zach Wilson games to just try to get myself into the idea of what he brings if we draft him.

I can see the talent he brings to the table, certainly, but it hasn't done much to assuage the concerns I have about the competition he faced and lack of consistent production outside of this year. Flat out, I think that JT O'Sullivan video nails this one fact: he throws too many jump balls when it's not necessary. The talent factor is that the accuracy on a lot of throws are just knock your socks of impressive, but it doesn't stop the fact that some of those are picks or knocked down at the next level. 

 

2 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Also, I'd love for people to take a step back when discussing processing speed for Wilson vs Fields. There's absolutely very little chance the people on this board claiming to know this have anything to back this up other than parroting people closer to the situation's opinions. The way that narrative is right now makes it sound like Wilson is some sort of savant and Fields is dumber than a bag of rocks when the answer is highly likely to be people are just projecting based off of the responsibilities they were given in their respective offensive systems.

That's what I appreciate about JT's videos, we dont know the play call and he will admit that, he just shares what he sees beyond throw to catch.  We assume progressions but we dont know.  As I've watched all these QB's, to me it's easy to see (and backed up by the stats) Fields has more to think about post snap then any QB in college (Kellen Mond 2nd).  So, if that's the case, how slow is he really processing putting up the stats he did with his downfield accuracy?  It's flies in the face of the moron crowd but as you said, it's personal now, so god forbid we appreciate nuance to the game.  And then the idea that all these dudes are capable of growing but Fields (the best athlete of the entire group) cant develop and learn the game, even though he's got an Ivy League brain and already has had to learn 2 totally different systems in the best conferences in Football.   It's just stupid but most people are stupid so no biggie.  You just have to laugh at some of it.

I too see the appeal to Wilson's game.  You'd be blind fool not to see it.  The challenge I have, is the tape/stats are total fools gold.  You have to break him down and recreate him because 80% of what he did in college, will be a disaster in the NFL.  That's not to say he cant overcome it but to me, it's just a monster risk and he just screams, Sam Darnold with more pop in the arm.  All the sh*t you hate about Sam, appears regularly on Zach tape.  

To me, this easy.  There are 2 studs in this class, have been since they were in high school, exceeded expectations in college, check out on everything you want them to check out on and even bring some brand recognition to the locker-room.  Every NFL player in the league, saw Fields embarrass Lawrence on National Television, I'd be shocked to hear anyone of them have ever seen Zach Wilson play a Football game.  Does that mean anything?  idk but it does to me.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm sorry dude but wow.  For months, you've talked about how he's flawless, the greatest college QB you've ever seen, better then Trevor Lawrence, as cant miss as you can get.  Now, suddenly, everything we've all been saying for months about very serious flaws in his game that you refused to acknowledge has been laid out for you on full display and now you're at the conclusion he's not perfect, needs development and it's no big deal he misses reads and throws and everything else, because hey, other QB's in the NFL do it too!!!  LoL  but yo,!!!!! All these other guys, not named Zach Wilson, if they have these terrible habits and the put that garbage on tape, it's the death of them as as prospect.

 

Look I think Wilson is the best QB prospect I have ever seen, but I also recognized right from the beginning that he has things he will need to work on, namely throws along or behind the line of scrimmage especially when moving in the direction of the throw, and his tendency to backpeddle  to pressure in his face. He is good at pressure within the pocket especially from the sides. Mahomes has mostly gotten away with backpeddling to face pressure (Bill Polian actually calls it the 3rd QB dimension, and funny enough said it was why they would win the SB) but did not do it against Tampa.

3 years ago I was wrong about Sam, and I was wrong about Deshawn Watson, so this year I did a ton of my own study of all the QBs in this draft, basically all of Wilsons, Fields and Lance's throws, and some of Jones and Lawrence who I don't think are Jets options.

So yes I do stand by my extreme support of Wilson. But I also recognize that to be in the NFL he still needs good coaching, great work habits, an improved line and better weapons.

I just the think the good is just insanely good, and I think he will be able to fix the bad. I mean the guy is freakishly accurate 40 yards down the field, I think he can improve his swing passes and screens around the line of scrimmage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm beginning to feel like a QANON follower with this stuff, but the most recent Rich Cimini story regarding Steve Young's interview reminds me of this:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/09/sam_darnold_thought_the_browns.html

Sam Darnold thought the Browns would take him over Baker Mayfield at No. 1 but 'I'm just going to go out and play ball'

"BEREA, Ohio -- Jets rookie QB Sam Darnold believed the Browns would take him at No. 1 last spring, but he's not out for revenge Thursday night at FirstEnergy Stadium."

"He acknowledged that he thought he was headed to Cleveland, in part because the Browns spent so much time with him during the pre-draft process. Owner Jimmy Haslam was in on the pre-draft dinner with Darnold and even sat with the QB's parents in the stands during his pro day at USC."

Don't get me wrong, I'm certain the Jets really do like Wilson and he is obviously in serious consideration, but I doubt that the Jets coaching staff told a media member what their definitive plans are already. The Jets might not make their decision until days before the draft. It was the same thing with the 2018 draft, everyone thought it was Darnold, then 2-3 days before the draft, it started leaking that Cleveland would take Mayfield. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm beginning to feel like a QANON follower with this stuff, but the most recent Rich Cimini story regarding Steve Young's interview reminds me of this:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/09/sam_darnold_thought_the_browns.html

Sam Darnold thought the Browns would take him over Baker Mayfield at No. 1 but 'I'm just going to go out and play ball'

"BEREA, Ohio -- Jets rookie QB Sam Darnold believed the Browns would take him at No. 1 last spring, but he's not out for revenge Thursday night at FirstEnergy Stadium."

"He acknowledged that he thought he was headed to Cleveland, in part because the Browns spent so much time with him during the pre-draft process. Owner Jimmy Haslam was in on the pre-draft dinner with Darnold and even sat with the QB's parents in the stands during his pro day at USC."

Don't get me wrong, I'm certain the Jets really do like Wilson and he is obviously in serious consideration, but I doubt that the Jets coaching staff told a media member what their definitive plans are already. The Jets might not make their decision until days before the draft. It was the same thing with the 2018 draft, everyone thought it was Darnold, then 2-3 days before the draft, it started leaking that Cleveland would take Mayfield. 

lol - my man, it's a done deal.  I think there was a lot more uncertainty in that draft vs. this one.  Jags are taking TL.  100% and at this point, between Steve Young's BYU insider info and clearly communication with Shanny re who we're taking, our fate is sealed, just accept it and embrace Zachapono.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

lol - my man, it's a done deal.  I think there was a lot more uncertainty in that draft vs. this one.  Jags are taking TL.  100% and at this point, between Steve Young's BYU insider info and clearly communication with Shanny re who we're taking, our fate is sealed, just accept it and embrace Zachapono.  

 

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic. Color me skeptical. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'd be willing to drop large coin on it.  They're taking Zachapono, I'm convinced.  

 

At this point I’m mostly hoping for some of: the return for Darnold is good, Douglas can magically get Pitts, the Pats don’t land Fields, and I’d make a terrible GM.

Worst part of swinging and missing at 2 is we have to do the whole new GM thing all over again and I’m just so tired of it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'd be willing to drop large coin on it.  They're taking Zachapono, I'm convinced.  

 

I'm certainly NOT willing to put any coin on it :) Maybe it is true, but it would fly in the face of how Douglas has operated so far (no one had Saleh, Lawson, Corey Davis or Jarrad Davis pegged before it happened). And even on this board someone reported way back in February that Wilson and his family thought they were going to the Jets back in February, which has lead me to believe the faamily and agent are behind a lot of the leaks. Whatever, we shall see what happens soon enough. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

My problem with the main board is that people are taking prospect discussion too personally. Pointing out flaws is akin to invalidating their opinion, which is just exhausting to deal with and often not worth the hassle. I've done a lot of looking at Zach Wilson games to just try to get myself into the idea of what he brings if we draft him.

I can see the talent he brings to the table, certainly, but it hasn't done much to assuage the concerns I have about the competition he faced and lack of consistent production outside of this year. Flat out, I think that JT O'Sullivan video nails this one fact: he throws too many jump balls when it's not necessary. The talent factor is that the accuracy on a lot of throws are just knock your socks of impressive, but it doesn't stop the fact that some of those are picks or knocked down at the next level. 

I haven't watched much video, but if you have decent WR in the NFL, I'd say throw jump balls.

You are going to get a PI as likely as you get an incomplete pass. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, derp said:

At this point I’m mostly hoping for some of: the return for Darnold is good, Douglas can magically get Pitts, the Pats don’t land Fields, and I’d make a terrible GM.

Worst part of swinging and missing at 2 is we have to do the whole new GM thing all over again and I’m just so tired of it.

Yeah, and I feel like we are heading full steam ahead to that if the Jets take Wilson at 2. I love the draft, but I'd much prefer to get back to watching winning football games. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, derp said:

At this point I’m mostly hoping for some of: the return for Darnold is good, Douglas can magically get Pitts, the Pats don’t land Fields, and I’d make a terrible GM.

Worst part of swinging and missing at 2 is we have to do the whole new GM thing all over again and I’m just so tired of it.

I'm with you, I'm at the point where I'd prefer a trade down and I love Fields but he's the only one of these guys that I feel is an upgrade over Sam. I dont like the idea of starting a rookie on this team with all rookie coaches/coordinators.  It just sounds like an disaster waiting to happen, especially because IMO, if you take Wilson, you literally have to break him down and start all over.  He's a mess and I really hope if they do take him, they're wise enough to bring in a bridge QB.  I'd like to think they're not this stupid but dude, it's the ******* Jets, until proven otherwise.

The other factor is (and I know it's a bit of excuse making) but I really dont know if we or anyone truly understand the negative impacts of Adam Gase.  Like, that stench is real and not going to lie, I'm like honestly curious to see Sam away from him, that's how bad of an influence I think he was for Sam.  Just the worst hire possible.  

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I'm certainly NOT willing to put any coin on it :) Maybe it is true, but it would fly in the face of how Douglas has operated so far (no one had Saleh, Lawson, Corey Davis or Jarrad Davis pegged before it happened). And even on this board someone reported way back in February that Wilson and his family thought they were going to the Jets back in February, which has lead me to believe the faamily and agent are behind a lot of the leaks. Whatever, we shall see what happens soon enough. 

It's funny, I have ESPN on in the background.  I'm usually not listening, it's just on but the whole panel on "Get up" destroyed the notion that Fields was slow processor and Bart said the Belichick came up with it in hopes the he falls too him.  I couldnt help but think of you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm with you, I'm at the point where I'd prefer a trade down and I love Fields but he's the only one of these guys that I feel is an upgrade over Sam. I dont like the idea of starting a rookie on this team with all rookie coaches/coordinators.  It just sounds like an disaster waiting to happen, especially because IMO, if you take Wilson, you literally have to break him down and start all over.  He's a mess and I really hope if they do take him, they're wise enough to bring in a bridge QB.  I'd like to think they're not this stupid but dude, it's the ******* Jets, until proven otherwise.

The other factor is (and I know it's a bit of excuse making) but I really dont know if we or anyone truly understand the negative impacts of Adam Gase.  Like, that stench is real and not going to lie, I'm like honestly curious to see Sam away from him, that's how bad of an influence I think he was for Sam.  Just the worst hire possible.  

 

 

 

 

It’s why I had an issue with them keeping Gase for the whole season. No one really took a jump offensively. As much baggage comes with Greg Williams, you saw young defenders come in get better and he actually held players accountable by benching them. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/1/2021 at 10:08 AM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Also, I'd love for people to take a step back when discussing processing speed for Wilson vs Fields. There's absolutely very little chance the people on this board claiming to know this have anything to back this up other than parroting people closer to the situation's opinions. The way that narrative is right now makes it sound like Wilson is some sort of savant and Fields is dumber than a bag of rocks when the answer is highly likely to be people are just projecting based off of the responsibilities they were given in their respective offensive systems.

I’m not a Fields fan but how is he not able to read defenses but Wilson is this X’s and O’s Peyton Manning-esque guru facing Sh thole Community College?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, maury77 said:

I'm beginning to feel like a QANON follower with this stuff, but the most recent Rich Cimini story regarding Steve Young's interview reminds me of this:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/09/sam_darnold_thought_the_browns.html

Sam Darnold thought the Browns would take him over Baker Mayfield at No. 1 but 'I'm just going to go out and play ball'

"BEREA, Ohio -- Jets rookie QB Sam Darnold believed the Browns would take him at No. 1 last spring, but he's not out for revenge Thursday night at FirstEnergy Stadium."

"He acknowledged that he thought he was headed to Cleveland, in part because the Browns spent so much time with him during the pre-draft process. Owner Jimmy Haslam was in on the pre-draft dinner with Darnold and even sat with the QB's parents in the stands during his pro day at USC."

Don't get me wrong, I'm certain the Jets really do like Wilson and he is obviously in serious consideration, but I doubt that the Jets coaching staff told a media member what their definitive plans are already. The Jets might not make their decision until days before the draft. It was the same thing with the 2018 draft, everyone thought it was Darnold, then 2-3 days before the draft, it started leaking that Cleveland would take Mayfield. 

Is it really that outlandish for the Jets to have told Wilson and his family that he is their guy? I mean JAX is taking Lawrence so there is literally nothing to stop the pick. The Jets could get a headstart on getting him up to speed with additional Zoom "interviews" and having to sort of recruit his family is not crazy either. The Jets would not tell Young, but the Wilson's might have and Young broke that confidence in trying to figure a way the 49ers still get Wilson. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Call me a b!tch, call me reactionary, call me whatever you want (trust me, I've been called worse), just make sure you call me if you want to buy my season tickets in 2020 if/when the Jets pick Wilson because I'm done spending money on watching bad football. I'd rather pay to go watch the Yankees or contribute more to my son's 529. Watch this cutup of Wilson under pressure and get ready for a whole lot of this in 2021. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Call me a b!tch, call me reactionary, call me whatever you want (trust me, I've been called worse), just make sure you call me if you want to buy my season tickets in 2020 if/when the Jets pick Wilson because I'm done spending money on watching bad football. I'd rather pay to go watch the Yankees or contribute more to my son's 529. Watch this cutup of Wilson under pressure and get ready for a whole lot of this in 2021. 

 

4 TDs under pressure in one game?

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Call me a b!tch, call me reactionary, call me whatever you want (trust me, I've been called worse), just make sure you call me if you want to buy my season tickets in 2020 if/when the Jets pick Wilson because I'm done spending money on watching bad football. I'd rather pay to go watch the Yankees or contribute more to my son's 529. Watch this cutup of Wilson under pressure and get ready for a whole lot of this in 2021. 

 

I'm trying to get into Wilson as people are saying its a "lock" but it's not easy. Im still hoping for a trade down. Someone is gonna hit the lottery if/when Fields slides this year. Would love that team to be us. 

If we draft Wilson and SF drafts Fields its going to be really tough to watch. Thats literally like the worst case scenario for me. Would just kill the draft for me. Fields goes there and its multiple Pro Bowls and super stardom awaiting him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I'm trying to get into Wilson as people are saying its a "lock" but it's not easy. Im still hoping for a trade down. Someone is gonna hit the lottery if/when Fields slides this year. Would love that team to be us. 

If we draft Wilson and SF drafts Fields its going to be really tough to watch. Thats literally like the worst case scenario for me. Would just kill the draft for me. Fields goes there and its multiple Pro Bowls and super stardom awaiting him. 

I will say this. Whoever we all like we are essentially working on like 50% of the information. We don't know how the retain information. How they can analyze a play. How do on a whiteboard when presented something they have never seen before

We don't know what their personality is, how they react to criticism or unexpected stress.

We have no real vision into their work habits or have a feel for their love of football. We have zero idea if there are any security or personal conduct concerns. The closest we have is Orlovsky saying Fields is "last guy in first guy out". If true that is really bad.

We can get a little insight sometimes:

Part of why I am so enamored with Wilson is that his weekly interviews with him give a lot of insight into his personality and football knowledge. He is fantastic at explaining a play what he was thinking and why he made the decision he did, He comes across as smart humble and really dedicated to football.

I thought some of the answers Fields gave after his pro day were pretty bad in my view.

Watching the Pro Days of Fields, Lawrence, Lance, Wilson and Jones you could see the differences in the way the players interacted with them. As an example you could see that the Alabama guys LOVE Jones.  That can elevate a team. When Wilson came in to finish a game as a (then redshirt) freshman you could see all the players just gravitate towards him.

So while we can all form an opinion (and quite different ones sometimes) from tape we know far from the full picture.

If the Jets are as set on Wilson as it seems, it is not just his performance on tape it is a sum of everything. And the stuff outside the tape matters. 

Also in the end there is nothing to say that all of these guys couldn't become really successful. It has happened before. It seems a lot of people almost want to hate the QB that is not their guy. Some Fields fans seem to just be insulted that another QB has passed him in ranking,

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I will say this. Whoever we all like we are essentially working on like 50% of the information. We don't know how the retain information. How they can analyze a play. How do on a whiteboard when presented something they have never seen before

We don't know what their personality is, how they react to criticism or unexpected stress.

We have no real vision into their work habits or have a feel for their love of football. We have zero idea if there are any security or personal conduct concerns. The closest we have is Orlovsky saying Fields is "last guy in first guy out". If true that is really bad.

We can get a little insight sometimes:

Part of why I am so enamored with Wilson is that his weekly interviews with him give a lot of insight into his personality and football knowledge. He is fantastic at explaining a play what he was thinking and why he made the decision he did, He comes across as smart humble and really dedicated to football.

I thought some of the answers Fields gave after his pro day were pretty bad in my view.

Watching the Pro Days of Fields, Lawrence, Lance, Wilson and Jones you could see the differences in the way the players interacted with them. As an example you could see that the Alabama guys LOVE Jones.  That can elevate a team. When Wilson came in to finish a game as a (then redshirt) freshman you could see all the players just gravitate towards him.

So while we can all form an opinion (and quite different ones sometimes) from tape we know far from the full picture.

If the Jets are as set on Wilson as it seems, it is not just his performance on tape it is a sum of everything. And the stuff outside the tape matters. 

Also in the end there is nothing to say that all of these guys couldn't become really successful. It has happened before. It seems a lot of people almost want to hate the QB that is not their guy. Some Fields fans seem to just be insulted that another QB has passed him in ranking,

 

There does appear to be a divide on the QBs, but I wonder how many really dislike the other guy, vs some posters simply being more vocal thus giving the illusion that there is this big chasm between the fans.  Personally, I've come into the offseason with JF as my guy, but the more I watch ZW the more I like. If there weren't such polar opposite views, maybe I wouldn't have put in the time to rewatch ZW play.  Now I see positives with both guys and would be happy with either. However, when I see unnecessary digs at certain players, its natural to want to defend them.  Both players are receiving quite a bit of this, although JF gets more of it in the national media.  I think this also triggers us JF fans.

JF is still my first choice, but I'd be very happy with ZW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jdub03 said:

There does appear to be a divide on the QBs, but I wonder how many really dislike the other guy, vs some posters simply being more vocal thus giving the illusion that there is this big chasm between the fans.  Personally, I've come into the offseason with JF as my guy, but the more I watch ZW the more I like. If there weren't such polar opposite views, maybe I wouldn't have put in the time to rewatch ZW play.  Now I see positives with both guys and would be happy with either. However, when I see unnecessary digs at certain players, its natural to want to defend them.  Both players are receiving quite a bit of this, although JF gets more of it in the national media.  I think this also triggers us JF fans.

JF is still my first choice, but I'd be very happy with ZW.

Honestly Dub, I think this entire class is overrated. You have 2 guys with multiple high performance seasons, a guy with 2 meh seasons and a dynamite season that came during Covid and against weak competition, a guy who only played 1 season at North Dakota State, Jones who played on an offense with possible future NFL players at every position and Kyle Trask, who was nothing special before this season either. 

Go back to last season. Everyone was down on Justin Herbert, but he was substantially bigger than Burrow and Tua, no significant injury history that I'm aware of, a better athlete than Tua and Burrow, and 3 seasons of high level performance at a Power 5 school. What was the result? He broke records as a rookie. 

Look, film study is critically important, but you have to know what you are looking at. In no way can I give you a breakdown like QB School, Mark Schofield or even @win4ever, but with the proliferation of tape now available on youtube, everyone thinks they are Ozzie Newsome now. 

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Honestly Dub, I think this entire class is overrated. You have 2 guys with multiple high performance seasons, a guy with 2 meh seasons and a dynamite season that came during Covid and against weak competition, a guy who only played 1 season at North Dakota State, Jones who played on an offense with possible future NFL players at every position and Kyle Trask, who was nothing special before this season either. 

Go back to last season. Everyone was down on Justin Herbert, but he was substantially bigger than Burrow and Tua, no significant injury history that I'm aware of, a better athlete than Tua and Burrow, and 3 seasons of high level performance at a Power 5 school. What was the result? He broke records as a rookie. 

Look, film study is critically important, but you have to know what you are looking at. In no way can I give you a breakdown like QB School, Mark Schofield or even @win4ever, but with the proliferation of tape now available on youtube, everyone thinks they are Ozzie Newsome now. 

All valid points Maury and I think what adds to this dynamic is the recent success rookies have had. Herbert, burrow, mayfield's first year, Kyler,  everyone is always looking for the next big thing. I have no idea who's going to workout or not, and I don't posess the fundamental football knowledge to properly evaluate prospects, but I enjoy the game, I enjoy seeing how successful players I like at the college level transition to the pros.  I also enjoy the dialogue back and forth here as it forces me to look at things through a different lens. I do wish there was more middle ground instead of you either being a Truther or a Hater.  I guess it's a microcosm of today's society.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jdub03 said:

All valid points Maury and I think what adds to this dynamic is the recent success rookies have had. Herbert, burrow, mayfield's first year, Kyler,  everyone is always looking for the next big thing. I have no idea who's going to workout or not, and I don't posess the fundamental football knowledge to properly evaluate prospects, but I enjoy the game, I enjoy seeing how successful players I like at the college level transition to the pros.  I also enjoy the dialogue back and forth here as it forces me to look at things through a different lens. I do wish there was more middle ground instead of you either being a Truther or a Hater.  I guess it's a microcosm of today's society.

It is in a lot of ways. I should clarify that I don't hate Wilson as a prospect. I think ideally he would go to a place like Pittsburgh, sit behind Ben for a year, acclimate himself to the speed of the NFL game and become a pretty good NFL starting QB (similar to a Jared Goff although their play styles are completely different). What I DO hate are the Wilson truthers that cannot tolerate any criticism of Wilson or that make him out to be this top of the draft talent that has a super computer for a brain and is basically Mahomes in a smaller package. I don't think the Jets have enough talent to support Wilson as a rookie starter. It's not like when Sanchez was here and the offense was LOADED around him. The Jets had a bottom 3 offense last year and they added Corey Davis (good player, but he's not Julio Jones either), Tevin Coleman, Tyler Kroft and Dan Feeney. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Fields is going to come in as a passer and light the world up either. However, I think Fields is a good enough runner and thrower that you can simplify his responsibilities (if read 1 and 2 are not open, run) that the Jets could follow a similar approach to what the Bills did with Allen where they added more responsibility to his plate in subsequent seasons. I don't think Wilson offers that as a rookie. 

I think the other thing that irks me is this narrative that is being shoved down our throats about Wilson being a perfect fit for the Shanahan offense. There IS NO perfect fit for the offense because it adjusts itself to the QB. You've seen Matt Ryan (a pocket passer with limited mobility), Jimmy Garrapolo (an accurate passer with some mobility) and RG3 (one of the most mobile QB prospects to come out of the NFL draft) all thrive in the Shanahan system. 

I guess at the end of the day, I don't like being force fed narratives by the media. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...