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14 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

 You're being a bit ridiculous and if the Jets have the number 1 pick no way in hell its going to be Fields over Lawrence that being said no way in hell will anyone pick Fields over Lawrence.

I watched the tape, and not just this tape, we agreed to disagree, Head to Head Lawrence won Fields Lost and Lawrence though under intense pressure the entire game still played error free football Fields did not. That's a small sample of what you might get in the NFL..... not beating up on inferior schools. 

I don't care what either guy did during the year because big programs almost always have QB's with inflated stats. In the big game that's where you focus. If you disagree with that I'm fine with it we can wait until the draft and see who is rated higher. And even then you may be right I may be right or we may both be dead wrong as we have seen so many times the past few years.

We may also both be right and both guys do well in the NFL lets just hope the Jets get the right one.

Great talk Smash 

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Here is my Lawrence report  Perfect build for a QB at 6’6”, he can see the entire field Good athlete who is a threat to run Slow processor who either sticks to his first read or takes a

After the Le'Veon Bell Fiasco, the Jets are obviously all in on Trevor. Here is a nice breakdown on Trevor from 2 of the best in the business:      

I've been a huge fan of JT O'Sullivan and here he breaks down a lot of the things I see with Wilson. @kdels62 @win4ever @Paradis @JiF @sec101row23 @Lith @Jets Voice of Reason

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4 hours ago, maury77 said:

After the Le'Veon Bell Fiasco, the Jets are obviously all in on Trevor. Here is a nice breakdown on Trevor from 2 of the best in the business:

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this. I had a lot of questions about Lawrence because his team is so good, is in the ACC, and his passes often seem to be jump balls or wide open receivers. But, hey, I know I'm not a professional evaluator, I'm just a guy obsessed with football. This breakdown does seem to demonstrate that Lawrence has the gift of seeing the playing field well. And that doesn't just mean he has good or bad vision from the pocket, like when a QB fails to notice a wide open receiver. That really is not the point of seeing the playing field well. In my view, it means that based on the D and matchups the QB sees what the field will look like during the play even before the ball is snapped. That gift of seeing the playing field well is what the great QBs have. They have an innate ability to know all of the angles based on the D, the matchups and the play call.

I remember reading an article about Namath playing pool with someone and the guy said it was not just that Namath was good at pool, but he saw shots on the table that the other guy never would have recognized even existed.

My main concern with Sam Darnold is whether he has the ability to see the playing field well. He really has not demonstrated this ability on a consistent basis yet, but man it is hard to tell whether it is him, the horsesh*t O scheme he plays in, the horsesh*t play calls, or the inferior talent around him. It's as if Darnold has been playing for three seasons and no one has bothered to explain to him the keys to reading a Defense. Hopefully, if the Jets draft Lawrence they will have a real HC with a dedicated OC and QB coach to bring him along. If not, history will repeat.

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27 minutes ago, JiF said:

@Paradis - just noticed you werent in here yet.  Maury hooked it up and put each snap from both guys when they played in the playoffs....

I came away thinking Fields looked like the better passer that day.

Yea we chatted about this on Twitter a bit... i should just stick this forum. i get worked up and totally waste oodles of my time trying to have these discussions on the strip. 

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50 minutes ago, JiF said:

@Paradis - just noticed you werent in here yet.  Maury hooked it up and put each snap from both guys when they played in the playoffs....

I came away thinking Fields looked like the better passer that day.

That being said, Lawrence looks better this year. 

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I'm not out on Darnold, but they can't pass up Lawrence/Fields.  I'd take either of those for 5 years over Darnold, and pick up his 5th year option.  Let him start the year with a new coach and see if he does well.  If he doesn't, we have our answer, if he does, we have a great luxury.  

I keep going back and forth on Lawrence/Fields, and I'm scared if it's similar to what I felt about Luck/RGIII when they came out.  Luck was that safe guy that was bound to be really good, but RGIII seemed like he had more upside.  And until RG3 got hurt, it actually seemed like both would be great.  

I'd be happy with either one at this point.  I want either one to sit behind Darnold for at least half a year, and learn some nuances, rather than the whole trial by fire experiment we keep failing at.  

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7 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

People are very emotional on the strip about Lawrence vs. Darnold. I don’t get why they are emotionally tied to either. I just want the Jets to make the best organizational decision. Sadly, history tells me they will not.

The strip is becoming unbearable. 

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https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/every_throw_graded_ultimate_scouting_report_of_jets_sam_darnold/s1_13132_31475993
 

Its stuff like this that gives me pause on Lawrence, and it has little to do with Lawrence. If, internally, the jets feel Darnold is a top 15 QB behind a good O line, wouldn’t they be inclined to trade the Lawrence pick if it would net them 4 first and second round picks plus a player?  For example, what if they could get Atlantas 2021 and 2022 first and second round picks plus Calvin Ridley, or the same picks from the Colts plus Quenton Nelson?

The draft is to build a better team. So IF (and i have no idea what their view is) the jets believe Darnold is a top 15 QB with a good O line, isn’t trading the lawrence pick assuming you can get a haul, the move a real GM makes? 

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3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/every_throw_graded_ultimate_scouting_report_of_jets_sam_darnold/s1_13132_31475993
 

Its stuff like this that gives me pause on Lawrence, and it has little to do with Lawrence. If, internally, the jets feel Darnold is a top 15 QB behind a good O line, wouldn’t they be inclined to trade the Lawrence pick if it would net them 4 first and second round picks plus a player?  For example, what if they could get Atlantas 2021 and 2022 first and second round picks plus Calvin Ridley, or the same picks from the Colts plus Quenton Nelson?

The draft is to build a better team. So IF (and i have no idea what their view is) the jets believe Darnold is a top 15 QB with a good O line, isn’t trading the lawrence pick assuming you can get a haul, the move a real GM makes? 

I'm fine with this approach as well and I originally advocated for it. I just don't think the franchise has any interest in Darnold anymore. They can say whatever they want to in public, but all their actions show that they have moved on from Sam.

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4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/every_throw_graded_ultimate_scouting_report_of_jets_sam_darnold/s1_13132_31475993
 

Its stuff like this that gives me pause on Lawrence, and it has little to do with Lawrence. If, internally, the jets feel Darnold is a top 15 QB behind a good O line, wouldn’t they be inclined to trade the Lawrence pick if it would net them 4 first and second round picks plus a player?  For example, what if they could get Atlantas 2021 and 2022 first and second round picks plus Calvin Ridley, or the same picks from the Colts plus Quenton Nelson?

The draft is to build a better team. So IF (and i have no idea what their view is) the jets believe Darnold is a top 15 QB with a good O line, isn’t trading the lawrence pick assuming you can get a haul, the move a real GM makes? 

Honestly, I think I'd rather this approach because in this scenario, not only are you gaining like 3 top 40 picks but it probably doesnt take you out of hypothetically a Fields or Lance.  Or, you really really build around Sam, see if he's worth an extension and sign a guy like Winston in the offseason (assuming he's not the heir apparent) or a similar type of insurance behind Sam.

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4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/every_throw_graded_ultimate_scouting_report_of_jets_sam_darnold/s1_13132_31475993
 

Its stuff like this that gives me pause on Lawrence, and it has little to do with Lawrence. If, internally, the jets feel Darnold is a top 15 QB behind a good O line, wouldn’t they be inclined to trade the Lawrence pick if it would net them 4 first and second round picks plus a player?  For example, what if they could get Atlantas 2021 and 2022 first and second round picks plus Calvin Ridley, or the same picks from the Colts plus Quenton Nelson?

The draft is to build a better team. So IF (and i have no idea what their view is) the jets believe Darnold is a top 15 QB with a good O line, isn’t trading the lawrence pick assuming you can get a haul, the move a real GM makes? 

What are your thoughts on the contract situation? This is a terrible football team right now and Darnold needs to be paid real money mid rebuild. The three years Lawrence is on a rookie deal pre fifth year option after his rookie year, when Darnold is also pre fifth year option, are a big deal in my opinion. It aligns way better with the cap space and flurry of first round picks. 

I like Darnold, I think he’s got a real chance to be a fine player, I just don’t think things line up for him with this franchise. Getting him to a legitimate organization with an aging QB does right by him, gets the Jets an asset or two, and allows this team to line up coach, quarterback, cap space, and draft picks.

Every time they have a chance to make this an appealing situation, they don’t make the tough call to move on from someone who doesn’t completely deserve it. By doing that, whatever key role in the organization is opening up becomes less appealing and they don’t have everything lined up nicely. It’s been mostly with the head coach and GM roles, but the quarterback is certainly a factor.

Also not the main point of my post but Atlanta’s picks in your trade scenarios are worth dramatically more than Indy’s.

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2 hours ago, maury77 said:

I'm fine with this approach as well and I originally advocated for it. I just don't think the franchise has any interest in Darnold anymore. They can say whatever they want to in public, but all their actions show that they have moved on from Sam.

What are the actions that that say they've moved on from Darnold?

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1 hour ago, derp said:

What are your thoughts on the contract situation? This is a terrible football team right now and Darnold needs to be paid real money mid rebuild. The three years Lawrence is on a rookie deal pre fifth year option after his rookie year, when Darnold is also pre fifth year option, are a big deal in my opinion. It aligns way better with the cap space and flurry of first round picks. 

I like Darnold, I think he’s got a real chance to be a fine player, I just don’t think things line up for him with this franchise. Getting him to a legitimate organization with an aging QB does right by him, gets the Jets an asset or two, and allows this team to line up coach, quarterback, cap space, and draft picks.

Every time they have a chance to make this an appealing situation, they don’t make the tough call to move on from someone who doesn’t completely deserve it. By doing that, whatever key role in the organization is opening up becomes less appealing and they don’t have everything lined up nicely. It’s been mostly with the head coach and GM roles, but the quarterback is certainly a factor.

Also not the main point of my post but Atlanta’s picks in your trade scenarios are worth dramatically more than Indy’s.

On the subject of Darnold's second contract - IF internally their view is that he is a top 15 QB if given a good O line - then they have the potential to sign Darnold to a second contract at a bargain price. 

It really is all dependent on how the view Darnold internally. 

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1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

On the subject of Darnold's second contract - IF internally their view is that he is a top 15 QB if given a good O line - then they have the potential to sign Darnold to a second contract at a bargain price. 

It really is all dependent on how the view Darnold internally. 

That wasn’t quite the question. Darnold even on a “bargain deal” making second contract QB money eats up way more cap space than a rookie QB.

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1 hour ago, derp said:

That wasn’t quite the question. Darnold even on a “bargain deal” making second contract QB money eats up way more cap space than a rookie QB.

The jets are gonna have to pay somebody eventually. If they think Darnold can be a too 15 QB with a good O line, it might as well be him.

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The jets are gonna have to pay somebody eventually. If they think Darnold can be a too 15 QB with a good O line, it might as well be him.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the premise that the timing do the contract doesn’t matter.

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3 hours ago, freestater said:

Welp. Justin Fields looked pretty impressive his first go at it this year.

He's pretty good at passing the Football to his players.  The one incompletion, was a drop, on a 45 yard bomb that Olave had but because he hit the ground so violently he couldnt hold on.

Fields looks like the best passer of the Football in college.  

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Advocating for building around Darnold is just not seeing the reality of the situation. The only way you keep him is if you can trade with Jaguars for all their picks up to the third round and Fields and Lance are not available. You can get a young promising QB at little cost and you have picks and cap space to make the teams good landing ground.

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On 10/25/2020 at 4:54 PM, JiF said:

He's pretty good at passing the Football to his players.  The one incompletion, was a drop, on a 45 yard bomb that Olave had but because he hit the ground so violently he couldnt hold on.

Fields looks like the best passer of the Football in college.  

Just rewatched the Nebraska/OSU game. Fields is really warming up on me.

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On 10/9/2020 at 2:16 PM, Smashmouth said:

FWIW you started with the stat lines. With that being said stat lines for a full season in college football mean next to nothing but in a bowl game I think they speak volumes especially when they go head to head with one guy making numerous mistakes and the other guy making none.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 2:24 PM, JiF said:

omg dude stop commenting and please watch the tape is provide in the thread.  Lawrence made numerous mistakes. He was miserable on the day.  OSU literally dropped multiple INT's.  2 that were thrown directly to a defender that he did not see.  

If you're going to just throw away Fields entire season and say he makes bad decisions because of 1 game, then why are you not talking about how Lawrence put up the most embarrassing championship performance possibly in the history of the NCAA?

this a mafia thread now? lol.. 

you guys are consistent. 

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People on the main message board keep saying the Jets should consult with Lawrence's people to give them input on the next HC selection. That is ass backwards. They next HC should get input on whether the Jets select Lawrence or Fields if the Jets happen to lose their way to the first overall selection.

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On 11/5/2020 at 9:16 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

People on the main message board keep saying the Jets should consult with Lawrence's people to give them input on the next HC selection. That is ass backwards. They next HC should get input on whether the Jets select Lawrence or Fields if the Jets happen to lose their way to the first overall selection.

That would be so utterly ridiculous to give 'Lawrences people' input.  Make me puke.

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5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Is it time to add a Zach Wilson video to this thread?


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I think he’s got a real chance if he ends up in the right place. Don’t expect he’d be in play at the very top of the draft but if I think he’s got a real chance if he ends up in the right situation. His arm talent and style are fun to watch.

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On 11/7/2020 at 7:30 AM, maury77 said:

Is it time to add a Zach Wilson video to this thread?


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Yes and while I've been hesitant and I'm still not conviced, Kyle Trask needs to be in the conversation.  You cant ignore someone that if it were a full season, is on pace to throw more TD's than Joe Burrow did last year.

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