The QB Thread

[derp]

On 1/12/2021 at 10:18 AM, Philc1 said:

Lance at 23 >>>> Fields at 2

 

Lance is a Colin Kaepernick clone (minus the political stuff ok relax)

My uneducated opinion is that Sewell/Lance is the most Joe Douglas move in this draft, although I do think they’d have to trade up from 23 to secure Lance. Reminiscent of how the Ravens have acquired quarterbacks in the past. Second half of the first round and big emphasis on tools. 

[Philc1]

On 1/14/2021 at 8:11 PM, derp said:

My uneducated opinion is that Sewell/Lance is the most Joe Douglas move in this draft, although I do think they’d have to trade up from 23 to secure Lance. Reminiscent of how the Ravens have acquired quarterbacks in the past. Second half of the first round and big emphasis on tools. 

Lance missed all of last season.  I’m hearing talk he might drop out of the first rd

 

but who knows.  All it takes is one GM falling in love

[Philc1]

On 1/14/2021 at 6:49 PM, kdels62 said:

I like Lance’s skill set but you’re taking about very few starts. Plus if someone buys into his skill set he’ll be gone way before 23, like the Vikings, 49ers, Panthers, Redskins picks.

Lance’s combine is going to have a big effect on where he gets drafted

 

If he kills the combine yes, probably gone by 23.  If he just does ok, he’s there at 23

[derp]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Lance’s combine is going to have a big effect on where he gets drafted

 

If he kills the combine yes, probably gone by 23.  If he just does ok, he’s there at 23

Lance’s combine probably won’t matter much. Quarterbacks rarely throw there and even if they do, teams can’t really measure accuracy well because the quarterback and receiver have no timing down. Lance has a good arm and is a good athlete and teams know that already.

His pro day will matter a little, have to nail the scripted throwing session.

He’s going to have to win over teams in interviews and have his coaches go to bat for his work ethic, etc. Supposedly he’s a great person and very bright so I don’t think that’ll be the problem.

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Lance missed all of last season.  I’m hearing talk he might drop out of the first rd

 

but who knows.  All it takes is one GM falling in love

I bet you he’s going to “rise” because the media with their short attention spans focused on the guys playing all year (Lance did play one game). Lance has a ton of upside as a QB prospect. He’s clearly big, strong, and athletic when you watch him, doesn’t turn the ball over, and he’s supposed to be very bright. Seems like a pretty ideal developmental QB and with so many teams needing one he’ll go somewhere in the first. I couldn’t see teams like Indy and Pitt passing and think he’d be at least interesting for teams like SF and NE too.

[Dinamite]

Question for the QB draft experts on the board (e.g., @maury77; @Paradis; @Lupz27 and others). I realize Wilson is a good fit for the West Coast system that Jets will run.  The question is whether you could make the same argument for Fields? That is, if the Jets take a QB, would Fields still be a good prospect for them or will they be influenced by system?

[maury77]

47 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Question for the QB draft experts on the board (e.g., @maury77; @Paradis; @Lupz27 and others). I realize Wilson is a good fit for the West Coast system that Jets will run.  The question is whether you could make the same argument for Fields? That is, if the Jets take a QB, would Fields still be a good prospect for them or will they be influenced by system?

Thanks, but no way in hell am I an expert (I thought Sam, Geno and Sanchez would all work out). Additionally, I am biased because I think Fields is a superior prospect to Wilson. 

That being said, what does the west coast offense ask of its quarterback? Despite it being a Dolphins website (barf), finsider had an article about the west coast offense here: https://www.thephinsider.com/2014/2/13/5406774/football-101-what-is-a-west-coast-offense

Here is what the offense needs out of its quarterback according to the article: "Quarterback: Mobile, accurate passer who makes good decisions.  Does not have to have the strongest arm, since short passes are the key.'

Is Fields mobile? The answer is obviously yes if you have ever watched him play. According to Fields, he ran a 4.42. https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/how-fast-is-justin-fields-his-40-yard-dash-wouldve-been-fastest-for-qb-at-nfl-combine/#:~:text=The fastest time at the,a 4.38%2C” Fields said. If Fields runs a 4.42 at his pro day (Ohio State is known for having a fast track) that would be one of the fastest times for a QB since 2000 (only RGIII, Vick and Reggie McNeal ran as fast [Lamar never ran his 40, but I think he is probably faster than Fields). 

Is Fields accurate? According to PFF, Fields was the most accurate QB in the country this season (more accurate than Lawrence or Wilson): "Fields’ accuracy has truly been the best we have seen from any quarterback this season. Over 73% of his passes have been deemed accurate by PFF’s ball-charting process, the highest rate in the FBS by more than three percentage points." https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2020-pffs-all-big-ten-team#:~:text=First-Team%3A Justin Fields%2C Ohio State&text=Over 73% of his passes,more than three percentage points.

One other thing to remember about the Kyle Shanahan system. Shanahan modified his offense to fit RGIII's skillset at Washington and he had a great rookie season until he got hurt: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2013/12/05/kyle-shanahan-robert-griffin-iii-rgiii-rg3-relationship/3883309/. There is a history of very mobile QBs like Fields thriving in Shanahan's system. 

[Dinamite]

1 minute ago, maury77 said:

Thanks, but no way in hell am I an expert (I thought Sam, Geno and Sanchez would all work out). Additionally, I am biased because I think Fields is a superior prospect to Wilson. 

That being said, what does the west coast offense ask of its quarterback? Despite it being a Dolphins website (barf), finsider had an article about the west coast offense here: https://www.thephinsider.com/2014/2/13/5406774/football-101-what-is-a-west-coast-offense

Here is what the offense needs out of its quarterback according to the article: "Quarterback: Mobile, accurate passer who makes good decisions.  Does not have to have the strongest arm, since short passes are the key.'

Is Fields mobile? The answer is obviously yes if you have ever watched him play. According to Fields, he ran a 4.42. https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/how-fast-is-justin-fields-his-40-yard-dash-wouldve-been-fastest-for-qb-at-nfl-combine/#:~:text=The fastest time at the,a 4.38%2C” Fields said. If Fields runs a 4.42 at his pro day (Ohio State is known for having a fast track) that would be one of the fastest times for a QB since 2000 (only RGIII, Vick and Reggie McNeal ran as fast [Lamar never ran his 40, but I think he is probably faster than Fields). 

Is Fields accurate? According to PFF, Fields was the most accurate QB in the country this season (more accurate than Lawrence or Wilson): "Fields’ accuracy has truly been the best we have seen from any quarterback this season. Over 73% of his passes have been deemed accurate by PFF’s ball-charting process, the highest rate in the FBS by more than three percentage points." https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2020-pffs-all-big-ten-team#:~:text=First-Team%3A Justin Fields%2C Ohio State&text=Over 73% of his passes,more than three percentage points.

One other thing to remember about the Kyle Shanahan system. Shanahan modified his offense to fit RGIII's skillset at Washington and he had a great rookie season until he got hurt: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2013/12/05/kyle-shanahan-robert-griffin-iii-rgiii-rg3-relationship/3883309/. There is a history of very mobile QBs like Fields thriving in Shanahan's system. 

Thanks - I would love for the jets (if they select a QB) to take the best prospect (and mold offense to said prospect)- not just the best fit.  Have been reading a lot of assumptions that it is Wilson because he is the best fit given what Shanahan system asks for.  If they evaluate him and he is the best prospect then great.  But picking solely based on fit to system would be the concern.  

[maury77]

11 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Thanks - I would love for the jets (if they select a QB) to take the best prospect (and mold offense to said prospect)- not just the best fit.  Have been reading a lot of assumptions that it is Wilson because he is the best fit given what Shanahan system asks for.  If they evaluate him and he is the best prospect then great.  But picking solely based on fit to system would be the concern.  

I agree with you. Despite my feelings about Wilson, the Jets need to decide who is the best potential QB (Darnold, Wilson and Fields) and adjust the offense accordingly. 

[Dinamite]

Also, if anyone is interested, Greg Cosell gives his opinion on Fields and Wilson in the first 10 minutes or so of this podcast (I know it is Eagles themed, but topic is QBs).   Spoiler, he seems to give an edge to Wilson currently, while acknowledging Fields has a lot of potential for development.

 

 

[maury77]

Interesting to bump this thread and read everyone's opinions on before everyone went tribal. I still stand on my Wilson analysis (although I think his arm is not quite as strong as I originally thought after watching more video). I just can't hitch my wagon to a QB that is scared of the pass rush. Sorry. 

1:25, 1:57, 2:10, 4:10 (pass to the far sideline dying as it gets to the WR), 5:10, 7:50, 8:20 (it's a catch, but the ball placement is terrible), 8:40, 11:10 (throws across the field under pressure, that's going to be an INT in the NFL), I just stopped at this point. 

Wilson does things I like. I think he's a 1st rounder, but I think some of his strengths are exaggerated and he has some pretty big red flags. I just don't see him as a top 15 pick. 

[Philc1]

Trask = Kirk Cousins

[kdels62]

21 hours ago, maury77 said:

Interesting to bump this thread and read everyone's opinions on before everyone went tribal. I still stand on my Wilson analysis (although I think his arm is not quite as strong as I originally thought after watching more video). I just can't hitch my wagon to a QB that is scared of the pass rush. Sorry. 

1:25, 1:57, 2:10, 4:10 (pass to the far sideline dying as it gets to the WR), 5:10, 7:50, 8:20 (it's a catch, but the ball placement is terrible), 8:40, 11:10 (throws across the field under pressure, that's going to be an INT in the NFL), I just stopped at this point. 

Wilson does things I like. I think he's a 1st rounder, but I think some of his strengths are exaggerated and he has some pretty big red flags. I just don't see him as a top 15 pick. 

1:25 is a miss just a bad attempt from Wilson

1:57 he’s getting hit as he throws after he stepped away from pressure. Like his feet aren’t set and he’s trying to throw from the middle of the field to outside the numbers 20 yards while getting hit. The ball lands harmlessly in front of the WR.

2:10 is a bad decision but hardly a trend. Wilson has some hero ball in him that’ll need to be coach out. 

4:10 he took some off of it. He literally throws harder outs 10 yards further down field in other games. However, I’ve noticed that Wilson tends to throw softer balls when his players are wide open. I think it’s him being overly cautious to complete passes which is a bad habit. 

5:10 bad form leads to a bad throw, but he rushed it because he was being pressured and didn’t get his hips around, he gets hit after releasing the ball.  The play before this he throws the ball on a line 15 yards while at a full sprint. 

7:50 he escapes pressure and tries to throw the ball before getting hit as the pocket collapses. The ball lands short as he tries to jump pass to get the ball out.

8:20 he throws the ball into a window because if he leads the receiver it’s either picked or the WR is getting rocked. Not a perfect throw but it’s also away from the defenders. Probably should’ve thrown it a little higher but inside was the right choice.

8:40 is a sack on a blitz with 2 free runners from the strong side idk what you’re seeing here 

11:10 Wilson escapes pressure and finds a player with 15 yards of space between him and the next closest defender. This will likely never happen in the NFL, there’s nothing to take from this projection wise but it’s not an issue. Wilson doesn’t live off of bootleg cross field check downs, it’s improv in a 2-minute drill with the game on the line and everyone playing deep coverage. 

[maury77]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

1:25 is a miss just a bad attempt from Wilson

1:57 he’s getting hit as he throws after he stepped away from pressure. Like his feet aren’t set and he’s trying to throw from the middle of the field to outside the numbers 20 yards while getting hit. The ball lands harmlessly in front of the WR.

2:10 is a bad decision but hardly a trend. Wilson has some hero ball in him that’ll need to be coach out. 

4:10 he took some off of it. He literally throws harder outs 10 yards further down field in other games. However, I’ve noticed that Wilson tends to throw softer balls when his players are wide open. I think it’s him being overly cautious to complete passes which is a bad habit. 

5:10 bad form leads to a bad throw, but he rushed it because he was being pressured and didn’t get his hips around, he gets hit after releasing the ball.  The play before this he throws the ball on a line 15 yards while at a full sprint. 

7:50 he escapes pressure and tries to throw the ball before getting hit as the pocket collapses. The ball lands short as he tries to jump pass to get the ball out.

8:20 he throws the ball into a window because if he leads the receiver it’s either picked or the WR is getting rocked. Not a perfect throw but it’s also away from the defenders. Probably should’ve thrown it a little higher but inside was the right choice.

8:40 is a sack on a blitz with 2 free runners from the strong side idk what you’re seeing here 

11:10 Wilson escapes pressure and finds a player with 15 yards of space between him and the next closest defender. This will likely never happen in the NFL, there’s nothing to take from this projection wise but it’s not an issue. Wilson doesn’t live off of bootleg cross field check downs, it’s improv in a 2-minute drill with the game on the line and everyone playing deep coverage. 

My point isn't that he makes mistakes (all the prospects and pros do), its that his accuracy really dips when he deals with pressure, but you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. 

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

My point isn't that he makes mistakes (all the prospects and pros do), its that his accuracy really dips when he deals with pressure, but you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. 

Yea and no. He makes mistakes, so do Fields and Lawrence but those guys had bad games, much worse than the one by Wilson and come out as winners. Fields v Indiana and Northwestern and Lawrence v. Ohio State last year and Va Tech this year. Yet those guys don’t drop into late first round picks. Further, I’ve seen all three play and all 3 have the benefit of good protection but all 3 have faults against pressure. However, if you look at analytics, Wilson is the one with the highest passing grade under pressure and the one with a better trend in terms of reaction to the blitz. 

I’d still take Fields because his athleticism is an xfactor but while we both see different things on Wilson’s tape, the analytics tell a different story in favor of Wilson.

[maury77]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Yea and no. He makes mistakes, so do Fields and Lawrence but those guys had bad games, much worse than the one by Wilson and come out as winners. Fields v Indiana and Northwestern and Lawrence v. Ohio State last year and Va Tech this year. Yet those guys don’t drop into late first round picks. Further, I’ve seen all three play and all 3 have the benefit of good protection but all 3 have faults against pressure. However, if you look at analytics, Wilson is the one with the highest passing grade under pressure and the one with a better trend in terms of reaction to the blitz. 

I’d still take Fields because his athleticism is an xfactor but while we both see different things on Wilson’s tape, the analytics tell a different story in favor of Wilson.

Agreed about analytics, however:

1) As much as I love to cite PFF, I frankly still don't really understand their grading system. 

2) PFF's analytics in CFB doesn't account for level of competition. Football outsiders analytics does compared to PFF.

3) Fields and Wilson are really close according to PFF. in 2021, Wilson was at 95.4 and Fields was 93.5. Over their careers, Wilson is at 84.03 and Fields is at 91.7. So over a smaller sample size, Wilson has an edge of 1.9, over a larger sample size, Fields has an advantage of 7.4! With statistics, a larger sample size is always preferable. So if we put the analytics and the film at a push, then we look at level of competition, athleticism, ceiling and durability. Fields just blows Wilson out of the water on those 4 factors. 

At the end of the day, we both have Fields ahead of Wilson, really we are just debating how big the gap is. I really do appreciate your arguments, you bring your A game. 

[JustInFudge]

@maury77 @win4ever

Sully broke down the Indiana game from Fields.  I think he's one of the better at this but he shows a limited amount of plays, so I'm not so much sharing for his analysis but this is the game that you get to see a little bit of everything of Fields.  Incredible throws, unreal runs, a few missed reads and some boneheaded INT's.  The main reason I'm sharing is because Indiana runs an exotic defense that gives college QB's looks they're not used to and while it did get the best of Fields at times, kid still put up almost 400 yards of offense and 3 TD's and as we play the comparison game, this the type of stuff Wilson has never faced...and you can do the same with NW and Bama.  What Fields was having to read pre/post snap, Wilson has never, ever seen on a Football field.  I do have to laugh, at one point he takes a direct shot at Wilson when Fields throws a dart to the sideline...he goes "look at this, no double heel clicks, ball isnt below his waist and he deliver with timing and anticipation".  lol

 

 

 

[maury77]

[mention=28312]maury77[/mention] [mention=28328]win4ever[/mention]
Sully broke down the Indiana game from Fields.  I think he's one of the better at this but he shows a limited amount of plays, so I'm not so much sharing for his analysis but this is the game that you get to see a little bit of everything of Fields.  Incredible throws, unreal runs, a few missed reads and some boneheaded INT's.  The main reason I'm sharing is because Indiana runs an exotic defense that gives college QB's looks they're not used to and while it did get the best of Fields at times, kid still put up almost 400 yards of offense and 3 TD's and as we play the comparison game, this the type of stuff Wilson has never faced...and you can do the same with NW and Bama.  What Fields was having to read pre/post snap, Wilson has never, ever seen on a Football field.  I do have to laugh, at one point he takes a direct shot at Wilson when Fields throws a dart to the sideline...he goes "look at this, no double heel clicks, ball isnt below his waist and he deliver with timing and anticipation".  lol
 
 
 

I enjoyed it. Fields biggest issue isn’t the processing speed, it’s the anticipatory throws in the middle of the field. I don’t think it’s due to any unfixable limitation, I think it’s the result of a guy playing only 1 1/2 seasons as a starter. I think as he gets more reps, he will gain more confidence in what he is seeing and throw the ball earlier. Check this video out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I enjoyed it. Fields biggest issue isn’t the processing speed, it’s the anticipatory throws in the middle of the field. I don’t think it’s due to any unfixable limitation, I think it’s the result of a guy playing only 1 1/2 seasons as a starter. I think as he gets more reps, he will gain more confidence in what he is seeing and throw the ball earlier. Check this video out.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

That’s a knock on almost every QB coming out college, what college QB makes a ton of anticipatory throws in the middle of the field?   I’ve watched every throw Trevor Lawrence has ever made, they rarely have those throws in the playbook.  The only time you ever see them with Trevor is in the red zone.   It’s one of the biggest adjustments going from college to the NFL.  

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

I enjoyed it. Fields biggest issue isn’t the processing speed, it’s the anticipatory throws in the middle of the field. I don’t think it’s due to any unfixable limitation, I think it’s the result of a guy playing only 1 1/2 seasons as a starter. I think as he gets more reps, he will gain more confidence in what he is seeing and throw the ball earlier. Check this video out.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Selective analysis...that's why I dont listen to these guys.  I appreciate it but every QB makes mistakes at every level.  Zero'ing in and trying to make an assumption is stupid.  Just like drooling over a jaw dropping play.  It about consistency and body of work, and Fields has that in spades. 

[Wonderboy]

On 1/16/2021 at 7:15 AM, Philc1 said:

Lance’s combine is going to have a big effect on where he gets drafted

 

If he kills the combine yes, probably gone by 23.  If he just does ok, he’s there at 23

The kid got skillz. He is in fact the better athlete behind Trevor.  So many teams are losing QB's or have aging ones.  He's perfect to take a chance on and groom for a year or two.  Trade back@2 with someone and put yourself in a position where he's there.  Top 14?

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

The kid got skillz. He is in fact the better athlete behind Trevor.  So many teams are losing QB's or have aging ones.  He's perfect to take a chance on and groom for a year or two.  Trade back@2 with someone and put yourself in a position where he's there.  Top 14?

It seems his stock is on the rise. Probably top 15 pick now

[maury77]

52 minutes ago, JiF said:

Selective analysis...that's why I dont listen to these guys.  I appreciate it but every QB makes mistakes at every level.  Zero'ing in and trying to make an assumption is stupid.  Just like drooling over a jaw dropping play.  It about consistency and body of work, and Fields has that in spades. 

I'm just trying to be objective in order to avoid the "Fields fanboy" tag some probably want to hang on me. 

[maury77]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

I enjoyed it. Fields biggest issue isn’t the processing speed, it’s the anticipatory throws in the middle of the field. I don’t think it’s due to any unfixable limitation, I think it’s the result of a guy playing only 1 1/2 seasons as a starter. I think as he gets more reps, he will gain more confidence in what he is seeing and throw the ball earlier. Check this video out.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

I feel ridiculous for quoting myself but you should watch this video. It shows how Fields progressed against Clemson from their first matchup to their second match. 

[Lith]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I'm just trying to be objective in order to avoid the "Fields fanboy" tag some probably want to hang on me. 

No way of avoiding the fanboy tag around here this offseason.  No matter how fair and objective your assessment may be, the act of liking Fields is an affront to some (not all) who prefer Wilson.  And liking either college QB is an affront to some who want to stick with Sam. 

None of us know which of these guys is going to be a good pro.  Personally, I have seen enough of Sam that I am ready to move on and I prefer Fields to Wilson.  But come draft day, if JD, Saleh and co put their faith in Wilson, that will still get me excited, just not quite as excited as if Fields is the guy.

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

I'm just trying to be objective in order to avoid the "Fields fanboy" tag some probably want to hang on me. 

I hear ya, which is why I shared the Indiana tape.  You get a little bit of it all and I there are some solid gaps to appear. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I feel ridiculous for quoting myself but you should watch this video. It shows how Fields progressed against Clemson from their first matchup to their second match. 

I watched, I do agree, he does show him getting the ball out faster, etc.  and he seems more comfortable in the system, for sure.  I just felt it was a little disingenuous to act like he had a bad game vs. Clemson last year, he really didnt.

That said, that video is a perfect example of how stupid Pauline sounded when he said he only came off his 1st read 7 times the whole season.  sh*t like that is so ******* stupid and you have the publics ear?  ridiculous.

[Grandy]

Fields' interceptions this year were at times excruciatingly painful to watch, however they showed completely correctable issues as most had to do with hero ball as opposed to lack of seeing the field. 

[win4ever]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

@maury77 @win4ever

Sully broke down the Indiana game from Fields.  I think he's one of the better at this but he shows a limited amount of plays, so I'm not so much sharing for his analysis but this is the game that you get to see a little bit of everything of Fields.  Incredible throws, unreal runs, a few missed reads and some boneheaded INT's.  The main reason I'm sharing is because Indiana runs an exotic defense that gives college QB's looks they're not used to and while it did get the best of Fields at times, kid still put up almost 400 yards of offense and 3 TD's and as we play the comparison game, this the type of stuff Wilson has never faced...and you can do the same with NW and Bama.  What Fields was having to read pre/post snap, Wilson has never, ever seen on a Football field.  I do have to laugh, at one point he takes a direct shot at Wilson when Fields throws a dart to the sideline...he goes "look at this, no double heel clicks, ball isnt below his waist and he deliver with timing and anticipation".  lol

 

 

 

Yeah, it's a good video, I wish he broke down all the plays but he's very good at describing the nuances.  His video prior to this deals with the blitz schemes from Indiana, and how the OL just wasn't ready for it.  He even mentioned that the Heisman hype got to him, and he was trying to just do too much at times.  We usually don't see those, getting tackled - throwing up prayer, interceptions from him.  

He's not perfect by any means, but I hate how his competition works against him.  It's like I should take his Rutgers numbers and extrapolate it to 10 games because the defenses being stupid doesn't matter.  

[TheMo]

As someone in a analytics based field (physician) can we stop calling PFF analytics. They have assigned numerical values to subjective assessments. It’s really not analytics but rather aggregate anecdotal evidence. Football outsiders with DVOA is analytics. Obviously any system can be subjective as even FO’s model is based off of someone’s interpretation. But PFF is just a straight joke in my mind when it comes to the grading process and calling that analytics. 

[win4ever]

37 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Fields' interceptions this year were at times excruciatingly painful to watch, however they showed completely correctable issues as most had to do with hero ball as opposed to lack of seeing the field. 

Some of it were downright unlucky.   

2 against Indiana were clearly just chucking it up there and hoping your guy gets it while I get sacked interceptions.  One interception against NW was a ridiculous one handed effort by the CB, and the one against Clemson was a tipped pass.  I'm not saying throw them out, but he had some really bad luck with them.  

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

No way of avoiding the fanboy tag around here this offseason.  No matter how fair and objective your assessment may be, the act of liking Fields is an affront to some (not all) who prefer Wilson.  And liking either college QB is an affront to some who want to stick with Sam. 

None of us know which of these guys is going to be a good pro.  Personally, I have seen enough of Sam that I am ready to move on and I prefer Fields to Wilson.  But come draft day, if JD, Saleh and co put their faith in Wilson, that will still get me excited, just not quite as excited as if Fields is the guy.

Yeah, I agree, that's the hard part.  If I defend Fields, it's not that I automatically hate Wilson, Lawrence, Lance, etc, it's just that I like Fields better than most.  However, it's all a guessing game because we don't know how things will turn out.  We all thought Darnold was the one.  

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, it's a good video, I wish he broke down all the plays but he's very good at describing the nuances.  His video prior to this deals with the blitz schemes from Indiana, and how the OL just wasn't ready for it.  He even mentioned that the Heisman hype got to him, and he was trying to just do too much at times.  We usually don't see those, getting tackled - throwing up prayer, interceptions from him.  

He's not perfect by any means, but I hate how his competition works against him.  It's like I should take his Rutgers numbers and extrapolate it to 10 games because the defenses being stupid doesn't matter.  

Yeah, he's one of the better that I've seen but doesnt break down very many plays. 

I feel like after the Clemson game ever should have been put to bed but idk, it's weird. 

[nycdan]

5 hours ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, I agree, that's the hard part.  If I defend Fields, it's not that I automatically hate Wilson, Lawrence, Lance, etc, it's just that I like Fields better than most.  However, it's all a guessing game because we don't know how things will turn out.  We all thought Darnold was the one.  

Don't worry.  You could jerk off to a poster of Fields in the middle of Times Square and still not be as big a fanboy as some of the Wilson fans out in the media are.  I agree.  Any of the top-3 should end up good QBs in the league, but some of the Wilson hype has gotten as ridiculous as the obviously related Fields-bashing.  They are both great college QBs.  Different flavors and everyone has a preference which is fine, but we don't have to invent ways to tear down strawberry just because we like blueberry.

[win4ever]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

Yeah, he's one of the better that I've seen but doesnt break down very many plays. 

I feel like after the Clemson game ever should have been put to bed but idk, it's weird. 

I think after the Clemson game, people were quiet.  But he was clearly off in the Alabama game.  That team thrived on the 4 vert attack, and they just weren't doing it.  I'm presuming it has something to do with his ribs, because once the defense knew they couldn't stop Alabama, it was almost like they gave up.  

I don't understand some of the narratives around him:

OSU System:  False - He runs a much more vertical based offense, not the quick read/short pass offense with Meyer.  

Slow Processing:  His system calls for option routes down the field, not like he can just throw it before those options

An athlete not cerebral:  Great student who makes good reads

Can someone tell me why he's worse than Watson coming out of college?  

 

 

4 hours ago, nycdan said:

Don't worry.  You could jerk off to a poster of Fields in the middle of Times Square and still not be as big a fanboy as some of the Wilson fans out in the media are.  I agree.  Any of the top-3 should end up good QBs in the league, but some of the Wilson hype has gotten as ridiculous as the obviously related Fields-bashing.  They are both great college QBs.  Different flavors and everyone has a preference which is fine, but we don't have to invent ways to tear down strawberry just because we like blueberry.

The sad thing is if we draft Wilson at say 8 or something, I'd be happy.  I just don't like him when compared to Fields, but if we're talking Wilson plus a premium pick, then I'm listening.  I watched one BS video that said Wilson was a perfect fit (it was one of those YouTube channels that makes outlandish claims to stand out at times) where it showed one throw of Wilson making an out throw from the far hash.  Then Garrapolo throwing an out route, and saying that's why it's a perfect fit.  Literally every offense has that throw but this was magically the fit for the 49ers system.  

I could talk myself into Lawrence/Fields/Wilson/Lance/and even Jones.  The difference is that those picks should come with added value, so it's not Lance is better than Fields, but Lance plus premium picks are similar risks to Fields.  But on a pure evaluation basis, I'd be shocked if Fields is not the No. 2 guy.  

My prediction:  Fields runs a fast 40 during his pro-day, and we get the "Well, that pro-day absolutely changed some minds" turnarounds soon.  I just feel like it's a set up to pivot later.

[JustInFudge]

6 hours ago, win4ever said:

I think after the Clemson game, people were quiet.  But he was clearly off in the Alabama game.  That team thrived on the 4 vert attack, and they just weren't doing it.  I'm presuming it has something to do with his ribs, because once the defense knew they couldn't stop Alabama, it was almost like they gave up.  

I don't understand some of the narratives around him:

OSU System:  False - He runs a much more vertical based offense, not the quick read/short pass offense with Meyer.  

Slow Processing:  His system calls for option routes down the field, not like he can just throw it before those options

An athlete not cerebral:  Great student who makes good reads

Can someone tell me why he's worse than Watson coming out of college?  

 

The only thing he was lacking for me to put him in that category was the big game heroics that Watson had ie; last second TD the 2nd time they faced Bama for a Nat'y.  What he did to Bama in those 2 Naty's was nothing short of amazing, especially because at the time, they were calling that the best Bama D, ever! 

Fields really didnt have the defining game until Clemson.  As many TD's as incompletions, a 6 bomb on the juggernaut that is Clemson while completing and utterly outshining the golden boy both on the field and on the sidelines.  It was man vs. boy in that game.

If it werent the Nat'y, I dont think Fields plays.  They knew he was injured and I want to say he only saw a 4 man rush like a handful of times, they were bringing the heat on him and he clearly wasnt 100%.