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Just now, JiF said:

I was bored and watched and pleasantly found these somewhat compelling.  

At the end of the day, these guys are prospects and will both need development.  I dont know how anyone could look at either and think they're a finished product.  As much as I love Fields, I'm on record that I'd like him to sit and watch year 1.  Not because I dont think he can handle it but because I think it's the right thing to do for his development.  And as much as I dont want Wilson, I think the same approach is necessary for him as well.  And all rookies QB's need the right situation.  None of these dudes do it by themselves, never have, never will. 

If you're throwing out that Fields might arguably be the best athlete in the draft, I think ultimately, what it comes down to is;  do you think you can fix Wilson's sloppy mechanics/footwork vs. do you think can teach Fields the small ball nuances required to play at the NFL level.  For me obviously; the later is an easier fix considering the player/athlete/intelligence.  Whereas, the footwork/mechanics stuff is scary as we watch Sam Darnold bust out of NY.

 

My big concern with Fields right now is beating out the bad OSU habits with our first time OC. I think we’d be a bad spot for Fields because I genuinely don’t know if our LeFleur is any good without Kyle Shanahan. 

Fields on the Patriots, Panthers, Saints, Steelers would be deadly. 

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Here is my Lawrence report  Perfect build for a QB at 6’6”, he can see the entire field Good athlete who is a threat to run Slow processor who either sticks to his first read or takes a

After the Le'Veon Bell Fiasco, the Jets are obviously all in on Trevor. Here is a nice breakdown on Trevor from 2 of the best in the business:      

People are very emotional on the strip about Lawrence vs. Darnold. I don’t get why they are emotionally tied to either. I just want the Jets to make the best organizational decision. Sadly, history te

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I don't want Wilson at all, the All-22 doesn't really help his case much.   He can make the "Oh, wow, that's a throw a handful of guys can make" throw, but god damn if he doesn't show concerning issues.  I can't shake the Jordan Love comp with him, too many times the lack of defense bails him out.  

 

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12 hours ago, JiF said:

Your take on Fields is mind-numbing dumb and you just repeat the same incorrect nonsense over and over again.  No offense.

Did you think Watson was a mid round prospect as well?  My guess is yes. 

The bold, hands down bar none the worst take I've ever heard.  Hands down.

❤️

 

I'm now where you were about a month ago. I don't even bother. And these f*cking insider reports are ..... No one pegged Saleh, Jarrad Davis, Corey Davis or Carl Lawson as Jets targets until they happened. Open your eyes people and look at the evidence, the Jets don't leak anymore. 

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48 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I don't want Wilson at all, the All-22 doesn't really help his case much.   He can make the "Oh, wow, that's a throw a handful of guys can make" throw, but god damn if he doesn't show concerning issues.  I can't shake the Jordan Love comp with him, too many times the lack of defense bails him out.  

 

So...... when are we getting those all 22 breakdowns?

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Matt Waldman on this year's QB class: https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2021/03/16/matt-waldmans-rsp-cast-2021-quarterback-class-mind-dump/

Yes, I'm not a Wilson fan, but Waldman, starting at about 15 minutes, talks about how NFL draft analysts have been looking for the next Mahomes to make up for the fact that so many missed on Mahomes the first time (specifically mentions Drew Lock and Jordan Love [as @win4ever did] as examples in the last 2 drafts). 

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So...... when are we getting those all 22 breakdowns?


I think by Monday. I'll have part 1 done tomorrow. I figure I can write tomorrow and Friday to get the first part down. I already have most of the plays I want to highlight, just need to convert it to an article.
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20 hours ago, maury77 said:

Matt Waldman on this year's QB class: https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2021/03/16/matt-waldmans-rsp-cast-2021-quarterback-class-mind-dump/

Yes, I'm not a Wilson fan, but Waldman, starting at about 15 minutes, talks about how NFL draft analysts have been looking for the next Mahomes to make up for the fact that so many missed on Mahomes the first time (specifically mentions Drew Lock and Jordan Love [as @win4ever did] as examples in the last 2 drafts). 

Interesting, makes sense.   Not so much sure it's the make up for the miss but just the obsession with what Mahomes can do and the NFL being a copy cat league, desperately trying to recreate a lesser prospect to be similar because of this one little thing that you see him do from time to time ie; throw a dime off platform means he's the next Mahomes.  

Just not that easy...

 

 

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47 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

 

I wish we would get rid of the ball faster on a lot of these throws, but I wonder how much of that one can attribute to the Ohio State offense, which didn't give him as many opportunities to hit the outlet or check down. @win4ever, any thoughts on this?

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5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I wish we would get rid of the ball faster on a lot of these throws, but I wonder how much of that one can attribute to the Ohio State offense, which didn't give him as many opportunities to hit the outlet or check down. @win4ever, any thoughts on this?

There’s plenty of good there but there’s also a lot of bad. Athleticism is a nice trump card to have though.

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

There’s plenty of good there but there’s also a lot of bad. Athleticism is a nice trump card to have though.

That's the thing with him. When I compare him to all the other very athletic QBs that have come out the last several years (Lamar, Josh Allen), Fields is light years ahead of them at the same stage of development as far as accuracy and going through progressions. We also have to consider that he's only really started about a year and a half. He's not going to be Russell Wilson right away, but he's so athletic that I think you can take a similar approach with him as the Ravens and Bills did with their respective QBs. 

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I wish we would get rid of the ball faster on a lot of these throws, but I wonder how much of that one can attribute to the Ohio State offense, which didn't give him as many opportunities to hit the outlet or check down. @win4ever, any thoughts on this?

He definitely needs to refine some aspects of his under pressure methods, which can be a byproduct of having less audible control at the line.  That was a big reason why I still had Lawrence ahead of him, because I thought Lawrence had the freedom to set his protections himself at times, whereas Fields (and most college QBs) get it via sideline.  

I want to dive deeper on it from the Wilson breakdown, but it's important to see him stay in the pocket with pressure.  He's moving laterally, or he creates while still in the initial pocket.  This leaves him open to inside rushes because he's letting the pocket form around him.  That's why Indiana was so smart with their A gap blitzes because it feeds right into his tendency to not bail the pocket pre-maturely.  What he needs to do is actually realize that with blitzes, he has to read hot, rather than waiting for the routes to mature.  I don't think OSU did him many favors with it because he didn't have quite as many quick outlets.   

This is a video of Geno vs Baylor.  Forget anything that happens after he throws.  Pay attention to his pocket awareness and what he does.  Even in shotgun, there are plenty of examples of him taking 3-4 steps backwards, because a shotgun QB wants everything in front of them.  You drift backwards so everything is still in your peripheral vision, whereas we see Fields staying in the pocket more.  I'm not saying he's perfect by any means, but there's more examples of him staying within the pre-snap assigned pocket than drifting backwards. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF7F59WJrTU

I don't know why it didn't embed.  If it doesn't load, Geno vs. Baylor on Youtube.  

Anyway, the main issue with the tendency to float back is that speed rushers can go further up the field before they can bend, especially because the hash marks are closer together.  It leaves your tackles on islands because they are forced to carry the defender up the field, vulnerable to spin moves.  It can work if you have great tackles or OL, but you aren't used to having defenders where you can't at least see some of them.  Then we have issues because now they feel ghosts because it rushes them.  

Wilson vs SD State

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWV2OrVYbC4&t=318s

It's not overt, but watch how Wilson has a tendency to get really deep on his drop backs, even from shotgun at times.  Don't care about anything after he throws, just the depth of his dropbacks.  We rarely see him stay in the pocket where defenders are surrounding him.  Rather it's more of creating space by going backwards, allowing everyone to be in-view, and then deciding.  This is not really an issue when facing lesser competition in college, because they aren't good enough across the board to make you pay.  But it's an issue in the NFL, like we found out with Geno, where you need to learn to throw from the pocket.  

It's one area where I think Fields actually does a better job of retaining pocket integrity, but it also will lead to A/B gap blitz gaps.  He allows the edges the form more often, but that leaves him vulnerable up the middle.  It's similar to how we had to defend Brady with pressure up the middle, because him staying calm in the pocket negated edge rushing (not that we had any).  Now Brady is on a whole different planet when it comes to decision making than Fields (or any QB in this draft), but the idea of retaining the pocket integrity causes issue for the defense.  If your speed rusher goes too far up the field, the OT just blocks him off coming back towards the QB.  If your QB keeps going too far deep, the DE is going to put any OT on skates.  

Again, I don't want to show this as Fields is a master at it, and Wilson sucks at it.  I just think Fields is a step above it, and while I was doing the breakdowns for Wilson, it reminded me of Geno in terms of pocket integrity in college.  

 

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On 10/8/2020 at 1:04 PM, maury77 said:

Here is my Lawrence report 

Perfect build for a QB at 6’6”, he can see the entire field

Good athlete who is a threat to run

Slow processor who either sticks to his first read or takes a long time to get to his second read

Very good arm and throws a nice ball

Accuracy dips when he gets pressure in the pocket

Nice mechanics with an easy & smooth throwing motion

Tough kid, he took an absolute shot against Ohio State and came back in

He gets bailed out a lot by Clemson’s WRs, who are huge athletes that can play above the rim

Really stares down his WRs, going to lead to a lot of picks in the NFL

He doesn’t deal well with pressure

Generally accurate

He gets a lot of credit for being so successful since his freshman year, but that doesn't guarantee success in the NFL (see Jameis Winston)

I think if you put Lawrence on a good team, he is going to be successful, but his processing speed, his propensity to stare down his target and the way he deals with pressure concern me if he goes to a bad team (like the Jets). I don't know how accurate he is going to be if he isn't throwing to big athletic targets like Ross and Higgins. Is Lawrence a 1st rounder? Yes, no doubt. But he's not a Luck level prospect and I honestly think Deshaun Watson was a better prospect coming out. @sec101row23

 

Excellent post, I‘D add I think his feet and set-up mechanics are pretty poor too....he reminds me of Darnold somewhat in that regard.

He doesn’t set and step into throws, there’s so much back foot and off-balance throws I’d really question his fundamentals at this point, which as we all know, get found out and exposed very quickly in the NFL. 

It also looks like at least 70% of what he’s running out there is pretty basic college one-read RPO that doesn’t showcase any ability to run and understand the complexity of an NFL offense, or more importantly, the complexity and duplicity of an NFL defense.

He’s still a very good prospect at QB with so many of the tools and (dreaded word) ‘intangibles’ to be a good to great NFL QB but I think you are spot on with your assessment that the situation he lands in with regard to coaching out his flaws and the surrounding talent is critical.

It’s always worth being reminded that Mahomes sat a whole year on an already loaded playoff team behind a savvy veteran in Alex Smith. That can be a huge difference maker.

His ability to be a throw first passer with the ability to take off and run, and really hurt you with his legs, certainly fits the modern mould for QB’s that have had success(Lamar, Josh Allen, Murray, Mayfield) but then that holds true for Sam too. 

I certainly don’t mourn the fact that winning those 2 games lost us Trevor Lawrence, He’s not the slam dunk, generational prospect at all,  I think we sit pretty where we are 
 

 

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Great thread in here everybody, proper analysis and objective(largely) discussion about the pro’s and cons of an area that is highly complex and needs more than “he sucks” or “looks like a 12 year old”

every now and then I’m reminded why I should spend more time over here and less time over there

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1 hour ago, redlichtie said:

Great thread in here everybody, proper analysis and objective(largely) discussion about the pro’s and cons of an area that is highly complex and needs more than “he sucks” or “looks like a 12 year old”

every now and then I’m reminded why I should spend more time over here and less time over there

Thanks bro. Honestly @JiF was 1 of the first ones to challenge the generational tag on Lawrence. In fairness to my write up, I thought Lawrence was better this year than he was last. We also disagree in here often, but it usually stays pretty respectable. 

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A thought for people really perseverating on the “off platform” throws. Russell Wilson doesn’t do that and has been extremely successful. Watson doesn’t really either. Also Fields makes a lot of of script plays too. I just can’t follow a stream of consciousness where Fields is not the better prospect over Wilson. I’m not even going to argue for the pro prospects. But I can’t see why the guy would be above Fields in a decision matrix. 

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Thanks bro. Honestly @JiF was 1 of the first ones to challenge the generational tag on Lawrence. In fairness to my write up, I thought Lawrence was better this year than he was last. We also disagree in here often, but it usually stays pretty respectable. 

Totally agree .....Disagreement need not be the end of a cordial even friendly relationship but yet somehow it all too often feels that way ...iwon’t hate you for liking someone I don’t rate and I expect you not to dismiss me or my opinions if I am a fan of someone you aren’t...this side of the site always seems more constructive. 
I’m totally with you on Lawrence ...spot on analysis IMO

 

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17 hours ago, maury77 said:

I wish we would get rid of the ball faster on a lot of these throws, but I wonder how much of that one can attribute to the Ohio State offense, which didn't give him as many opportunities to hit the outlet or check down. @win4ever, any thoughts on this?

Too funny, I was just about to say...I wish I knew what the play call was, where all the progressions were on some of these plays.  A few times, I felt like he missed someone or the ball should have come out faster but if that someone was #4/5 and pressure got there too fast, did he miss them?   Idk, but we know the system asked him to look vertical often.  

I watched it a few times and really paid attention to the times they gave him outlets and/or asked a RB to stay home.  The first thing that stood out to me was, for an OL with some decent pro talent, there were a ton free rushers all over the place on a lot of those plays.  Which is weird because Fields got his cues from the sidelines and they just, didnt make protection adjustments and they rarely asked a RB to stay home.  That said, on the examples they did, only a few times did they actually do their job (and Fields made some nice throws)  and pick up the rusher, other times they got lost in the scrum or just flat out missed.  So maybe their RB's couldnt pass protect and why so often they'd go 4 wide/TE or 5 wide and just asked him to do it all himself?  

 

17 hours ago, kdels62 said:

There’s plenty of good there but there’s also a lot of bad. Athleticism is a nice trump card to have though.

The wow out weighed the yikes for me but you're right, you see it all. 

Some of those plays were just out right unreal.  Like I found myself laughing and asking how...did he make the guy miss?  He was dead or rights, rewind it, and just the most subtle movements totally poised and then boom, ball comes out or he's gone.  Then the stuff with guys just all over him and he pops up and breaks away away.  I still like the Russ comparison because of his poise and down field accuracy but some of those plays were like watching Cam meets Lamar.  Just freak sh*t.

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15 hours ago, win4ever said:

He definitely needs to refine some aspects of his under pressure methods, which can be a byproduct of having less audible control at the line.  That was a big reason why I still had Lawrence ahead of him, because I thought Lawrence had the freedom to set his protections himself at times, whereas Fields (and most college QBs) get it via sideline.  

I want to dive deeper on it from the Wilson breakdown, but it's important to see him stay in the pocket with pressure.  He's moving laterally, or he creates while still in the initial pocket.  This leaves him open to inside rushes because he's letting the pocket form around him.  That's why Indiana was so smart with their A gap blitzes because it feeds right into his tendency to not bail the pocket pre-maturely.  What he needs to do is actually realize that with blitzes, he has to read hot, rather than waiting for the routes to mature.  I don't think OSU did him many favors with it because he didn't have quite as many quick outlets.   

This is a video of Geno vs Baylor.  Forget anything that happens after he throws.  Pay attention to his pocket awareness and what he does.  Even in shotgun, there are plenty of examples of him taking 3-4 steps backwards, because a shotgun QB wants everything in front of them.  You drift backwards so everything is still in your peripheral vision, whereas we see Fields staying in the pocket more.  I'm not saying he's perfect by any means, but there's more examples of him staying within the pre-snap assigned pocket than drifting backwards. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF7F59WJrTU

I don't know why it didn't embed.  If it doesn't load, Geno vs. Baylor on Youtube.  

Anyway, the main issue with the tendency to float back is that speed rushers can go further up the field before they can bend, especially because the hash marks are closer together.  It leaves your tackles on islands because they are forced to carry the defender up the field, vulnerable to spin moves.  It can work if you have great tackles or OL, but you aren't used to having defenders where you can't at least see some of them.  Then we have issues because now they feel ghosts because it rushes them.  

Wilson vs SD State

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWV2OrVYbC4&t=318s

It's not overt, but watch how Wilson has a tendency to get really deep on his drop backs, even from shotgun at times.  Don't care about anything after he throws, just the depth of his dropbacks.  We rarely see him stay in the pocket where defenders are surrounding him.  Rather it's more of creating space by going backwards, allowing everyone to be in-view, and then deciding.  This is not really an issue when facing lesser competition in college, because they aren't good enough across the board to make you pay.  But it's an issue in the NFL, like we found out with Geno, where you need to learn to throw from the pocket.  

It's one area where I think Fields actually does a better job of retaining pocket integrity, but it also will lead to A/B gap blitz gaps.  He allows the edges the form more often, but that leaves him vulnerable up the middle.  It's similar to how we had to defend Brady with pressure up the middle, because him staying calm in the pocket negated edge rushing (not that we had any).  Now Brady is on a whole different planet when it comes to decision making than Fields (or any QB in this draft), but the idea of retaining the pocket integrity causes issue for the defense.  If your speed rusher goes too far up the field, the OT just blocks him off coming back towards the QB.  If your QB keeps going too far deep, the DE is going to put any OT on skates.  

Again, I don't want to show this as Fields is a master at it, and Wilson sucks at it.  I just think Fields is a step above it, and while I was doing the breakdowns for Wilson, it reminded me of Geno in terms of pocket integrity in college.  

 

Man, we're really locked step in a lot of what we're seeing this year.  This is exactly where I've been this whole time and just simply maintained, I dont see a generational tag on Lawrence.  But the one thing that is 100% undeniable between him and Fields, is the autonomy Dabo gave him at the LOS.  Especially this season.  

And then if you've looked back, might be this thread, lol, who knows been some many conversation but Wilson drifts.  He definitely does it when there is pressure but he often does it without as well, as you said, to create even further separation, I saw example of him doing it with 5 stop drops backs.  

Fields definitely seems to climb better and step into it more and is just more fluid in general because the dude is just an elite athlete but he definitely has example of the some drifting as well.  You just never see it when everything is clean around him which cant be said about Wilson.

 

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5 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Great thread in here everybody, proper analysis and objective(largely) discussion about the pro’s and cons of an area that is highly complex and needs more than “he sucks” or “looks like a 12 year old”

every now and then I’m reminded why I should spend more time over here and less time over there

 

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Wilson will be the best QB from this class. If we pass on him we are idiots.

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3 hours ago, TheMo said:

A thought for people really perseverating on the “off platform” throws. Russell Wilson doesn’t do that and has been extremely successful. Watson doesn’t really either. Also Fields makes a lot of of script plays too. I just can’t follow a stream of consciousness where Fields is not the better prospect over Wilson. I’m not even going to argue for the pro prospects. But I can’t see why the guy would be above Fields in a decision matrix. 

Fields has the off platform stuff too, he just doesnt use it too often but there are examples of him dropping to side arm, etc.  We've talked about this as well but Fields did play shortstop at high level (there was talk of him playing again at OSU) so he knows how to throw off platform, I just think he's just bigger, stronger, faster with better body control so it's not necessary.  Fields is cool as cucumber in the pocket. 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Man, we're really locked step in a lot of what we're seeing this year.  This is exactly where I've been this whole time and just simply maintained, I dont see a generational tag on Lawrence.  But the one thing that is 100% undeniable between him and Fields, is the autonomy Dabo gave him at the LOS.  Especially this season.  

And then if you've looked back, might be this thread, lol, who knows been some many conversation but Wilson drifts.  He definitely does it when there is pressure but he often does it without as well, as you said, to create even further separation, I saw example of him doing it with 5 stop drops backs.  

Fields definitely seems to climb better and step into it more and is just more fluid in general because the dude is just an elite athlete but he definitely has example of the some drifting as well.  You just never see it when everything is clean around him which cant be said about Wilson.

 

Yeah, Lawrence definitely has the protection aspect better but he has his own concerns with pressure.  I see a bunch of back foot, off-balance throws with him, which isn't going to translate nearly as much.  

Lol, this thread actually discusses the prospects, which is why I try to stay out of the prospect talk on the main board.  Yeah, that's a major concern for me with Wilson, there are plays where he's like 10 yards away from the line of scrimmage without ANY pressure.  It's especially evident on shot gun play action.  It works for their system where it's much more vertical downfield, but it wouldn't translate over at all.  I saw a bunch of great throws that you make if you have like Mike Evans or Hopkins, where even when you are covered, you are open.  I literally have a category for tape that states "Can someone explain this defense" because some of the defensive plays are idiotic.  The biggest issue seems to be communication, with pre-snap movement because the defense just doesn't rotate over.  

I think the biggest aspect for QB floor is their mobility.  Look at Wentz, he could make dime throws, and then made stupid decisions.  His arm talent is by-far better than Hurts, but because Hurts adds the value of mobility, he has less risk of bust.  People point to Mahomes/Herbert, but has there been a rookie that had better receiving options than Herbert lately?  He has an All-Pro caliber WR in Allen, a very good jump ball receiver in Williams, and a good TE in Henry (who just got paid).  You have Mahomes in the exact system his talent fits in with, which is a GREAT OL, and guys that can all run go routes. 

I want a guy that takes away a defender in the passing lane because they are worried about mobility.  He's far more advanced than say Lamar Jackson/Kyler Murray were coming out in terms of passing ability, and he possesses a threat with his legs (not quite on their level).  

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2 hours ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, Lawrence definitely has the protection aspect better but he has his own concerns with pressure.  I see a bunch of back foot, off-balance throws with him, which isn't going to translate nearly as much.  

Lol, this thread actually discusses the prospects, which is why I try to stay out of the prospect talk on the main board.  Yeah, that's a major concern for me with Wilson, there are plays where he's like 10 yards away from the line of scrimmage without ANY pressure.  It's especially evident on shot gun play action.  It works for their system where it's much more vertical downfield, but it wouldn't translate over at all.  I saw a bunch of great throws that you make if you have like Mike Evans or Hopkins, where even when you are covered, you are open.  I literally have a category for tape that states "Can someone explain this defense" because some of the defensive plays are idiotic.  The biggest issue seems to be communication, with pre-snap movement because the defense just doesn't rotate over.  

I think the biggest aspect for QB floor is their mobility.  Look at Wentz, he could make dime throws, and then made stupid decisions.  His arm talent is by-far better than Hurts, but because Hurts adds the value of mobility, he has less risk of bust.  People point to Mahomes/Herbert, but has there been a rookie that had better receiving options than Herbert lately?  He has an All-Pro caliber WR in Allen, a very good jump ball receiver in Williams, and a good TE in Henry (who just got paid).  You have Mahomes in the exact system his talent fits in with, which is a GREAT OL, and guys that can all run go routes. 

I want a guy that takes away a defender in the passing lane because they are worried about mobility.  He's far more advanced than say Lamar Jackson/Kyler Murray were coming out in terms of passing ability, and he possesses a threat with his legs (not quite on their level).  

That last paragraph is where I am. If I told someone they could have a more polished passing version of Lamar Jackson at the expense of some of his elite straight line speed coming out of college I think people would jump on that. That is what Fields is to me. I think what would bother me more about Douglass passing on him for Wilson would be the thought process. Even if it worked out it would make me question his ability to look at analytics. When you gamble like that over the long run you’ll lose. It’s like investing in an S&P 500 fund over time. You’ll have some chucklehead who beats you hear and there with the GMEs of the world but in the long run I want the guy who gives me consistent above a average returns. 

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On 3/17/2021 at 9:22 PM, maury77 said:

I'm now where you were about a month ago. I don't even bother. And these f*cking insider reports are ..... No one pegged Saleh, Jarrad Davis, Corey Davis or Carl Lawson as Jets targets until they happened. Open your eyes people and look at the evidence, the Jets don't leak anymore. 

I hope so I really do man. I’m gonna seriously be bummed if we pass on Fields for Wilson at 2. I’d borderline prefer we trade down at that point. Think we’d still regret that too but at least we can get some value. 

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26 minutes ago, TheMo said:

That last paragraph is where I am. If I told someone they could have a more polished passing version of Lamar Jackson at the expense of some of his elite straight line speed coming out of college I think people would jump on that. That is what Fields is to me. I think what would bother me more about Douglass passing on him for Wilson would be the thought process. Even if it worked out it would make me question his ability to look at analytics. When you gamble like that over the long run you’ll lose. It’s like investing in an S&P 500 fund over time. You’ll have some chucklehead who beats you hear and there with the GMEs of the world but in the long run I want the guy who gives me consistent above a average returns. 

I don't quite understand the lack of hype on Fields to be honest. 

- He may legitimately run a 4.4, and it shows up on tape

- He had a very good arm, this isn't Lamar Jackson not being able to throw to the boundaries

- He's extremely accurate down the field, this isn't Dwayne Haskins throwing 2 yard mesh routes to get YAC

- He's played against very good competition

- By all accounts seems to be a smart kid, not like JaMarcus Russel

To me, he's a PERFECT fit in the system.  I think in college, a lot of QBs can run in open space and look mobile.  Baker Mayfield/Sam Darnold/Joe Burrow are scramble QBs.  If you leave enough space on defense with a perfect call (say man cover verts) then they can scramble down the field.  Opportunistically mobile.  Lamar Jackson/Kyler Murray/Josh Allen fit into the Fields mold of truly mobile because they can actually run against LBs determined to stop them.  To them, running is still an option on most plays, which causes the defense to adjust.  Play action/RPO and you have linebackers that need to worry about both RB and QB running the ball.  Throw in a mesh concept and you have a LB that has to worry about 4 possible outcomes on a single play.  

I agree with the stock trading analogy.  Wilson feels like the gut play, the "Man, I love eating here, this is going to take off" stock play, vs. "Their business model seems extremely efficient and streamlined" play.  Yeah, everyone now and then, you hit it big, but you are going to be taking on a ton of risk.  

I still don't think Wilson is the pick as it has been hyped by the media for the Jets.  We don't seem to have any leaks from the organization, and it makes no sense to tell people who you want this early.  

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I wonder what (if any) influence Lamar Jackson’s success in Baltimore (where Douglas and Chad Alexander were molded) will influence the Jets decision making in any sense.


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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I wonder what (if any) influence Lamar Jackson’s success in Baltimore (where Douglas and Chad Alexander were molded) will influence the Jets decision making in any sense.


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As a player, I can't see much since there really isn't anyone like him.  There were scouts projecting Jackson as a WR in the NFL.  And personally, I think he had his flash moment and now he's got to either learn to be a passer or BAL will not be able to advance in the playoffs.  Good teams can stop him.

But if you are talking about getting a QB with a good balance of passing and mobility, then I think you're looking at Fields (who just ran a 4.41) or maybe Lance (who is in the 4.5s).  Before the Wilson cultists come roaring out, he's a 4.8 guy so put a sock in it.   

Bottom line though, none of these guys are Lamar Jackson and frankly, I don't think that's what teams really should be looking for.  

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39 minutes ago, nycdan said:

As a player, I can't see much since there really isn't anyone like him.  There were scouts projecting Jackson as a WR in the NFL.  And personally, I think he had his flash moment and now he's got to either learn to be a passer or BAL will not be able to advance in the playoffs.  Good teams can stop him.

But if you are talking about getting a QB with a good balance of passing and mobility, then I think you're looking at Fields (who just ran a 4.41) or maybe Lance (who is in the 4.5s).  Before the Wilson cultists come roaring out, he's a 4.8 guy so put a sock in it.   

Bottom line though, none of these guys are Lamar Jackson and frankly, I don't think that's what teams really should be looking for.  

I was trying to make your point, but I was a little lazy in my original post. Mobile rookie QBs have been able to lean on that the last couple of years as they go throw their typical growing pains. I think Jackson is faster than Fields (not by much) and Lance, but I think the latter 2 were much more advanced passers than Jackson at similar stages of their careers. 

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2 hours ago, nycdan said:

As a player, I can't see much since there really isn't anyone like him.  There were scouts projecting Jackson as a WR in the NFL.  And personally, I think he had his flash moment and now he's got to either learn to be a passer or BAL will not be able to advance in the playoffs.  Good teams can stop him.

But if you are talking about getting a QB with a good balance of passing and mobility, then I think you're looking at Fields (who just ran a 4.41) or maybe Lance (who is in the 4.5s).  Before the Wilson cultists come roaring out, he's a 4.8 guy so put a sock in it.   

Bottom line though, none of these guys are Lamar Jackson and frankly, I don't think that's what teams really should be looking for.  

Just like you shouldnt be looking for the next Pat Mahomes.  You cant fall in love with something they do because it resembles something only 1 other person on the planet can do.  There is so much more to it and lets be real, as Jets fans we should know all too well that what you do after you take them might be just as important.   When you look at those specific teams, they both brought Jackson/Mahomes along and built systems to fit their strengths.

 

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22 hours ago, nycdan said:

As a player, I can't see much since there really isn't anyone like him.  There were scouts projecting Jackson as a WR in the NFL.  And personally, I think he had his flash moment and now he's got to either learn to be a passer or BAL will not be able to advance in the playoffs.  Good teams can stop him.

But if you are talking about getting a QB with a good balance of passing and mobility, then I think you're looking at Fields (who just ran a 4.41) or maybe Lance (who is in the 4.5s).  Before the Wilson cultists come roaring out, he's a 4.8 guy so put a sock in it.   

Bottom line though, none of these guys are Lamar Jackson and frankly, I don't think that's what teams really should be looking for.  

Jackson had one great year in Baltimore on a stacked team.  He was not as good last year.  Baltimore’s offense which is very RPO and option heavy has been figured out

 

Fields’ ceiling is a poor man’s Lamar.  Lamar has better game speed than Fields and he’s more agile in dodging defenders.  Lamar also took over starting QB on a team that had a good roster.  The Jets roster is horrible - worst in the NFL by far

 

I wouldn’t be shocked if Fields fell to 23

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23 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Jackson had one great year in Baltimore on a stacked team.  He was not as good last year.  Baltimore’s offense which is very RPO and option heavy has been figured out

 

Fields’ ceiling is a poor man’s Lamar.  Lamar has better game speed than Fields and he’s more agile in dodging defenders.  Lamar also took over starting QB on a team that had a good roster.  The Jets roster is horrible - worst in the NFL by far

 

I wouldn’t be shocked if Fields fell to 23

If Fields falls to 23 then a lot of GMs are gonna get fired. Fields is a better thrower of the football than Jackson and has the arm to reach any part of the field. 

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