Christopher Johnson Sucks...

[Biggs]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:16 AM, Philc1 said:

The Johnsons are the worst owners in all of sports.  The past 10 years says hello

 

And so do the next 10

 

James Dolan told me to say hello.  

[Philc1]

54 minutes ago, Biggs said:

James Dolan told me to say hello.  

Knicks have more recently made the playoffs and will return to the playoffs long before the jets do.  Dolan also owns the rangers who have been good

[Biggs]

53 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Knicks have more recently made the playoffs and will return to the playoffs long before the jets do.  Dolan also owns the rangers who have been good

Dolan is the worst owner in NYC history and it's not close.  The Knicks in a basketball town are irrelevant on the NBA stage, they have become 2nd fiddle to the Nets in their own market.  The Jets have crawled up to almost as relevant as the Giants.  

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

In an effort to be totally transparent here, these are 5 words I never, ever thought I would read on this site.

Look at what the Jets did under Woody and the other 44 years. Let me know what you find

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, jetophile said:

Did you hear me say that the Jets don't have a history of ineptness? The point I'm trying to make is that the Johnsons are mediocre owners at best and the culture really has not changed.

My other point is that if everybody keeps recognizing the same pattern then it's you not them. Remember the Alamo!

Also note that everything happened in the brady era, it was bad luck we had our best stretch of sustained success during the Brady era.  Imagine how much better it would look if Brady never came along?

[section314]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Look at what the Jets did under Woody and the other 44 years. Let me know what you find

You are barking up the wrong tree here. Not the reason for the post. It's just something I never thought I'd see, period. Nothing more. By the way, this is my 41st year of having tickets, so I am well aware of what's been going on with this team over that spam. Use that tired, boring crap on somebody else.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

That clown always goes after me, never agree what I write.  Even his reply to your post is an attack.  I'm tired of this fool

Sure, everyone goes after you, and you're a victim here. Believe that if you wish, but you dish it out plenty. 

When one's attitude is, "It's not me; it's everyone else," then it's time to buy a mirror. 

[Biggs]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:19 AM, nyjunc said:

It's a factual retort.  It's not my fault you don't understand it

He did understand it which is why it was pathetic.  Woody's success on a comparative basis to the former Jets owners isn't an argument against Woody sucking as an owner.  

Hess unlike Woody was running one of the most successful companies in the World.  The Jets were a second thought to Hess for his entire ownership.  He made a decision to try and win when he knew he was in hard decline.  He outmaneuvered Kraft and assembled the greatest coaching staff in Jets history.  That staff left Woody a legacy of players which Herm to his credit got to the playoffs a couple of time. 

Johnson hired a bunch of HC's and GM's.  Johnson wasn't running a multi-billion dollar company and financing the Jets as a lark.  Your facts are simply nonsense to back up a statement about Johnsons success on a comparative basis.  On a comparative basis stage 4 cancer is worse than stage 3.  Fact!

[jj71787]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Knicks have more recently made the playoffs and will return to the playoffs long before the jets do.  Dolan also owns the rangers who have been good

He put people in place to run the rangers not the Knicks. But jets are the worst franchise in NY

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Look at what the Jets did under Woody and the other 44 years. Let me know what you find

An argument can be made that Woody's good years were had on the fumes of the Leon Hess hiring of Bill Parcells.

And I am no Leon Hess fan, he organized the cabal of jealous co-owners that ran me out of dodge after I delivered on my promise to make the Jets both a winner and entertainment spectacle.

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

An argument can be made that Woody's good years were had on the fumes of the Leon Hess hiring of Bill Parcells.

And I am no Leon Hess fan, he organized the cabal of jealous co-owners that ran me out of dodge after I delivered on my promise to make the Jets both a winner and entertainment spectacle.

Sonny, your big contribution was hiring a Football Man (Eubank) and getting a franchise quarterback.

Hess, his big contribution was hiring a Football Man (Parcells) and getting him to rebuild the mess.

Woody, his big contribution was elevating a Football Man (Tannenbaum) and letting him spend big on free agents.

Christopher, his big contribution is recruiting a Football Man (Gase) and pairing him with a GM to patiently end the dysfunction.

In every case, the owner is meaningless outside of making a single decision in his tenure-  finding the right Football Man to be the final word in the front office.  So this notion that "Christopher Johnson Sucks!" is nonsense.  All owners 'suck' until they make that one good decision on that one right day to hire the right Football Man.

SAR I

[Adoni Beast]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

So this notion that "Christopher Johnson Sucks!" is nonsense.  All owners 'suck' until they make that one good decision on that one right day to hire the right Football Man.

SAR I

Two opposing thoughts can be true at the same time:

- You are correct, all owners are nothing until they make 1 big/good decision (Kraft lucking out with Belichick).

- Christopher Johnson still sucks.

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Sonny, your big contribution was hiring a Football Man (Eubank) and getting a franchise quarterback.

Hess, his big contribution was hiring a Football Man (Parcells) and getting him to rebuild the mess.

Woody, his big contribution was elevating a Football Man (Tannenbaum) and letting him spend big on free agents.

Christopher, his big contribution is recruiting a Football Man (Gase) and pairing him with a GM to patiently end the dysfunction.

In every case, the owner is meaningless outside of making a single decision in his tenure-  finding the right Football Man to be the final word in the front office.  So this notion that "Christopher Johnson Sucks!" is nonsense.  All owners 'suck' until they make that one good decision on that one right day to hire the right Football Man.

SAR I

Everything you claim hinges on a single premise in your argument:  Gase = "Football Man" (a cleverly vague term you use that actually means nothing without a precise definition).

I challenge that Gase is any kind of football man.  He has zero respect from players other than Gore.  His coaching staffs, playbook, locker room unity and profound lack of respect from players speaks volumes to him NOT being a "football man".  

He is one thing: A boring, unimaginative offensive play caller.  And a bad one at that. 

He is more of an Ass-Man than a Football Man.

Your argument is beyond stale already.  It is dead.  

What's the over/under on when you stop the charade?  Like the rest of us, you know damned well that Gase sucks in every respect.

[SAR I]

34 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Everything you claim hinges on a single premise in your argument:  Gase = "Football Man" (a cleverly vague term you use that actually means nothing without a precise definition).

Two things:

First, the biggest ask Jets fans have had for decades was to get a GM and HC in here on the same page to rebuild the franchise in the mold of the Steelers.  Christopher Johnson, to his credit, is doing just that.  You may not like Gase but at the very least CJ scooped the competition and got us a hot GM and has hired an experienced head coach who is an Alpha and is clearly running this organization.  Gase is calling all the shots.  One man at the top.  A Football Man.  Not a pencil pusher (Tannenbaum), not an appeaser (Bowles), not a clueless hack (Maccagnan).  Gase is an animal.  He takes sh-t from no one.  He is plowing through Florham Park and taking no prisoners, exactly what this dysfunctional joke of a franchise needs. 

Second, Gase hasn't proven much on the field but he most certainly has off the field, an essential component of any great head coach.  The X's and O's are impossible to judge fully due to the awful roster and injuries, so look at his leadership, his motivation, keeping the locker room together, no implosions, handling the media, acting professionally, making the right calls in JD's first draft, etc.  Can you name a single thing Gase has done that wasn't the right move?  Getting rid of Trumaine, Osemele, Bell, and Adams, guys who didn't want to be here?  Taking Becton over the other LT's?  Cutting or trading dead weight and getting cap relief or draft assets?  Ousting Maccagnan and Glat?  Recruiting Douglas who said no a dozen times prior?  Taking control of the entire facility?

Christopher Johnson is doing it right.  Gase may or may not be the answer long-term, but right now he's perfect.

SAR I

[Biggs]

22 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Two things:

First, the biggest ask Jets fans have had for decades was to get a GM and HC in here on the same page to rebuild the franchise in the mold of the Steelers.  Christopher Johnson, to his credit, is doing just that.  You may not like Gase but at the very least CJ scooped the competition and got us a hot GM and has hired an experienced head coach who is an Alpha and is clearly running this organization.  Gase is calling all the shots.  One man at the top.  A Football Man.  Not a pencil pusher (Tannenbaum), not an appeaser (Bowles), not a clueless hack (Maccagnan).  Gase is an animal.  He takes sh-t from no one.  He is plowing through Florham Park and taking no prisoners, exactly what this dysfunctional joke of a franchise needs. 

Second, Gase hasn't proven much on the field but he most certainly has off the field, an essential component of any great head coach.  The X's and O's are impossible to judge fully due to the awful roster and injuries, so look at his leadership, his motivation, keeping the locker room together, no implosions, handling the media, acting professionally, making the right calls in JD's first draft, etc.  Can you name a single thing Gase has done that wasn't the right move?  Getting rid of Trumaine, Osemele, Bell, and Adams, guys who didn't want to be here?  Taking Becton over the other LT's?  Cutting or trading dead weight and getting cap relief or draft assets?  Ousting Maccagnan and Glat?  Recruiting Douglas who said no a dozen times prior?  Taking control of the entire facility?

Christopher Johnson is doing it right.  Gase may or may not be the answer long-term, but right now he's perfect.

SAR I

You ignore Mac and Bowles and everything prior to that.  You ignore that we interviewed both Kingsbury and Rhule.  By any metric they are slaughtering Gase in terms of W's and pure entertainment.  The ask is to put in a top guys.  Gase may well be a top guy but there is nothing to indicate that he is based on his past in Miami and here so far.  They basically were afraid to take the leap for either KK or Rhule and bought in on experience that hadn't really produced great results. 

[section314]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Two things:

First, the biggest ask Jets fans have had for decades was to get a GM and HC in here on the same page to rebuild the franchise in the mold of the Steelers.  Christopher Johnson, to his credit, is doing just that.  You may not like Gase but at the very least CJ scooped the competition and got us a hot GM and has hired an experienced head coach who is an Alpha and is clearly running this organization.  Gase is calling all the shots.  One man at the top.  A Football Man.  Not a pencil pusher (Tannenbaum), not an appeaser (Bowles), not a clueless hack (Maccagnan).  Gase is an animal.  He takes sh-t from no one.  He is plowing through Florham Park and taking no prisoners, exactly what this dysfunctional joke of a franchise needs. 

Second, Gase hasn't proven much on the field but he most certainly has off the field, an essential component of any great head coach.  The X's and O's are impossible to judge fully due to the awful roster and injuries, so look at his leadership, his motivation, keeping the locker room together, no implosions, handling the media, acting professionally, making the right calls in JD's first draft, etc.  Can you name a single thing Gase has done that wasn't the right move?  Getting rid of Trumaine, Osemele, Bell, and Adams, guys who didn't want to be here?  Taking Becton over the other LT's?  Cutting or trading dead weight and getting cap relief or draft assets?  Ousting Maccagnan and Glat?  Recruiting Douglas who said no a dozen times prior?  Taking control of the entire facility?

Christopher Johnson is doing it right.  Gase may or may not be the answer long-term, but right now he's perfect.

SAR I

If that's the case, and Gase is the "football guy," here's the solution. At the end of the season, Gase steps down as the HC, and moves upstairs to become "director of football operations" or whatever the hell you want to call it. As a real football guy, he has to know he is a lousy coach, and can certainly find someone who will do a much better job. Since he and JD are on the same page, he lets JD pick the coach. Said coach reports to JD, who reports to Gase. Let Gase do his thing which seems to be constructing an organization, and stop doing what he clearly can't do, coach.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

If that's the case, and Gase is the "football guy," here's the solution. At the end of the season, Gase steps down as the HC, and moves upstairs to become "director of football operations" or whatever the hell you want to call it. As a real football guy, he has to know he is a lousy coach, and can certainly find someone who will do a much better job. Since he and JD are on the same page, he lets JD pick the coach. Said coach reports to JD, who reports to Gase. Let Gase do his thing which seems to be constructing an organization, and stop doing what he clearly can't do, coach.

I'm good with that too.  

Gase is built for New York.  He's impervious to media heat, fan hate, and losing.  He's an even-keeled madman.  Just what we need at this moment in our history.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

You ignore Mac and Bowles and everything prior to that.  You ignore that we interviewed both Kingsbury and Rhule.  By any metric they are slaughtering Gase in terms of W's and pure entertainment.  The ask is to put in a top guys.  Gase may well be a top guy but there is nothing to indicate that he is based on his past in Miami and here so far.  They basically were afraid to take the leap for either KK or Rhule and bought in on experience that hadn't really produced great results. 

It's early but Kingsbury and Rhule appear to be the right guys for those organizations, neither of which is the dysfunctional pressure-cooker that is the New York Jets.  No matter how well they do in Arizona and Carolina, they wouldn't have done as well here.  We've been through enough coordinators and college coaches to know. 

Gase is built New York tough.  He's an experienced head coach, went through his rookie growing pains in Miami.  College coaches and coordinators die here.  Christopher Johnson's approach is a smart one.  Just a matter of time before we get the right players and the right coordinators in here, then we can judge Adam's abilities.

SAR I 

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

I'm good with that too.  

Gase is built for New York.  He's impervious to media heat, fan hate, and losing.  He's an even-keeled madman.  Just what we need at this moment in our history.

SAR I

that would be much better than having him on the sidelines, calling plays, in the clubhouse 24-7.  Move him upstairs.  Downstairs.  Outside.  Anywhere.  

[Philc1]

17 hours ago, Biggs said:

Dolan is the worst owner in NYC history and it's not close.  The Knicks in a basketball town are irrelevant on the NBA stage, they have become 2nd fiddle to the Nets in their own market.  The Jets have crawled up to almost as relevant as the Giants.  

Woody is about to overtake Dolan if he hasn’t already.  Sorry to break it to you.

[Philc1]

14 hours ago, SAR I said:

I'm good with that too.  

Gase is built for New York.  He's impervious to media heat, fan hate, and losing.  He's an even-keeled madman.  Just what we need at this moment in our history.

SAR I

So why are the jets 0-7?  

[Philc1]

16 hours ago, jj71787 said:

He put people in place to run the rangers not the Knicks. But jets are the worst franchise in NY

Jets are in the worst shape of any NY team by far currently.  And it’s because of the Johnsons’ management 

[SAR I]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

So why are the jets 0-7?  

Idzik, John

Maccagnan, Michael

Ryan, Rex

SAR I

[Philc1]

41 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Idzik, John

Maccagnan, Michael

Ryan, Rex

SAR I

You’re trying to blame Rex Ryan for this season?!?!  Who’s next?  Pete Carroll?

[Biggs]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Jets are in the worst shape of any NY team by far currently.  And it’s because of the Johnsons’ management 

The Jets are 1 draft and FA from fielding a team that can compete in its division.  The Knicks aren't going to compete with the Nets, Celtics or Heat for a decade.  

[Philc1]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Jets are 1 draft and FA from fielding a team that can compete in its division.  

Been hearing this for over 10 years now 

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Been hearing this for over 10 years now 

Back in the day when guys still lived by the code of Omertà, 10 years was nothing.  

[SAR I]

54 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

You’re trying to blame Rex Ryan for this season?!?!  Who’s next?  Pete Carroll?

John Idzik and Mike Maccagnan weren't the only ones picking bad players.  And Rex Ryan started the broken culture we still suffer from today.  He was way too pro-player, he indulged them, told them how great they were, brought in guys who were selfish, did drugs, didn't behave, weren't focused.

And, of course, Rex never met an offensive player he liked, we had six years of focus on nothing but defenders and the WR's and TE's that should be on our roster right now aren't because Rex didn't make them a priority.  At a time when the league was transitioning to high-flying QB's and WR's, he was lost in the 80's, focusing on defense and a ground game.  We're still playing catch-up on the roster, and it took a vicious madman like Gase to flush Florham Park from top to bottom to get the Rex Ryan foot-sniffing culture out of the place.

SAR I

[nyjunc]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:00 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

Sure, everyone goes after you, and you're a victim here. Believe that if you wish, but you dish it out plenty. 

When one's attitude is, "It's not me; it's everyone else," then it's time to buy a mirror. 

I can take whatever anyone gives to me but when I give it back I get called out?  That's ridiculous. I rarely go after people, I usually just attack the argument but every once in a while (especially with that poster that follows me around and never goes after my arguments) I go at people.

[nyjunc]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:26 AM, Biggs said:

He did understand it which is why it was pathetic.  Woody's success on a comparative basis to the former Jets owners isn't an argument against Woody sucking as an owner.  

Hess unlike Woody was running one of the most successful companies in the World.  The Jets were a second thought to Hess for his entire ownership.  He made a decision to try and win when he knew he was in hard decline.  He outmaneuvered Kraft and assembled the greatest coaching staff in Jets history.  That staff left Woody a legacy of players which Herm to his credit got to the playoffs a couple of time. 

Johnson hired a bunch of HC's and GM's.  Johnson wasn't running a multi-billion dollar company and financing the Jets as a lark.  Your facts are simply nonsense to back up a statement about Johnsons success on a comparative basis.  On a comparative basis stage 4 cancer is worse than stage 3.  Fact!

You know outmaneuvering kraft directly led to the Patriots dynasty, right?  

That staff left the Jets in cap hell with an old roster that had to be retooled in order to compete after the 2001 season.  That staff made the playoffs ONE time in 4 seasons then Herm made it 3 of his first 4.

Woody made a terrible decision listening to our fans by firing Tannenbaum which has led to where we are today but no one said he was perfect.  Woody had many faults but he was always trying to win, we cannot say that about Chris.

[nyjunc]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:39 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

An argument can be made that Woody's good years were had on the fumes of the Leon Hess hiring of Bill Parcells.

And I am no Leon Hess fan, he organized the cabal of jealous co-owners that ran me out of dodge after I delivered on my promise to make the Jets both a winner and entertainment spectacle.

So do we credit steinberg and carroll for the brief success under Parcells?  The majority of that team was leftover players.

In 4 years under Parcells/Groh the Jets made the playoffs just once.  Herm alone made it 3 times over the next 4 years and they had to retool after each playoff app as they left the franchise with major cap issues that we only solved thanks to the expansion draft.

[Sperm Edwards]

 

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I can take whatever anyone gives to me but when I give it back I get called out?  That's ridiculous. I rarely go after people, I usually just attack the argument but every once in a while (especially with that poster that follows me around and never goes after my arguments) I go at people.

You cannot take whatever anyone gives you, as evidenced by not letting this go days later after the thread had died down, and from any number of issues you've had with countless others here.

If the default answer is always, "It isn't me; it's everyone else in society," then probably it's you. 

As Elsa said, let it go.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

You cannot take whatever anyone gives you, as evidenced by not letting this go days later after the thread had died down, and from any number of issues you've had with countless others here.

If the default answer is always, "It isn't me; it's everyone else in society," then probably it's you. 

As Elsa said, let it go.

Stop responding to me and I'll let it go.  I respond when people quote me.

Do an investigation and let me know what you find.  If it's not a big deal then why do you keep bringing it up?  

[Bugg]

On 10/29/2020 at 10:29 AM, Biggs said:

Dolan is the worst owner in NYC history and it's not close.  The Knicks in a basketball town are irrelevant on the NBA stage, they have become 2nd fiddle to the Nets in their own market.  The Jets have crawled up to almost as relevant as the Giants.  

His mismanagement of the Knicks coupled with his hands off let the hockey people run the Rangers is schizophrenic. I don't care about the Knicks, so it works for me. When it came time to tear NYR down(good run but no Cup), he didn't stand in the way. 

[Biggs]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

You know outmaneuvering kraft directly led to the Patriots dynasty, right?  

That staff left the Jets in cap hell with an old roster that had to be retooled in order to compete after the 2001 season.  That staff made the playoffs ONE time in 4 seasons then Herm made it 3 of his first 4.

Woody made a terrible decision listening to our fans by firing Tannenbaum which has led to where we are today but no one said he was perfect.  Woody had many faults but he was always trying to win, we cannot say that about Chris.

Take a look at the roster Herm inherited year 1.  Martin, Testeverde, Pennington, Jordan Coles, Moss and Chrebet along with Sowell and Becht who were both good blockers.  On D Herm inherited Farrior, Marvin Jones, Mo Lewis, Victor Green, John Abraham, Glenn, Mickens, Coleman and Ellis.

He inherited a balanced team including a great draft that was handed to him.  That roster was one of the best Jet rosters in decades.  Pennington was the perfect QB to run Herm's hand picked OC Paul Hackett.