The Troll Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I know that if the Jets cut the watergun slinger, the cap hit will be $12 million this year. My question is, what will his cap number be in future years if we cut him? When does he come off the books? If all it costs is $12 million and he is off the books for good after this season, then there should not even be negotiations going on. We should take our lumps in a season where it's going to be impossible to win a championship and get rid of the giant cap albatross right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 According to the official JN Salary Cap Page, the 2006 Cap hit before 6/1 is 12 Mil, after 6/1 is 6 mil How the cut affects long term I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonysxl1200c Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 If he's cut before June 1st, the entire cap hit comes in 2006. Assuming there is an extension to the CBA, cutting him after June 1st allows teams to spread the salary cap hit over 2 years. You take the regular yearly proration hit in year 1, and the remaining in year 2. There's no way we take option 2 though, because that would mean paying him the $3,000,000 Roster Bonus in March and then cutting him later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickkotite Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 either way it looks like the young balding faggot is history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 According to the official JN Salary Cap Page, the 2006 Cap hit before 6/1 is 12 Mil, after 6/1 is 6 mil How the cut affects long term I don't know There is no cutting of players after 6/1 without a new CBA. You can still cut them, but the cap hit can't be spread over 2 yrs. If there is a new CBA, then that's true. His cap hit, if cut after 6/1 (if there is a new cba) is 6M, but it's also 9M in 2007. It would also involve paying him a 3M roster bonus in March and then cutting him in June.. That's not happening. Be careful when you cite the JN page.. it's not very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Kinda sad that it seems like this whole situation is now being dictaed by the fact that Condon, for business purposes, doesn't want to be the agent for a guy who took an $ 8 million cut in salary. Nobody is going to pay Pennington anything much beyond minimum; he may not even be employable in 2006. WHy not take a decent deal to stay here and see if he can get healthy? Unless Pennington wants the money and knows his career is over anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I know that if the Jets cut the watergun slinger, the cap hit will be $12 million this year. My question is, what will his cap number be in future years if we cut him? When does he come off the books? If all it costs is $12 million and he is off the books for good after this season, then there should not even be negotiations going on. We should take our lumps in a season where it's going to be impossible to win a championship and get rid of the giant cap albatross right now. troll - i am not a cap expert but my understanding is that if the jets release chad prior to march 1 there will be a 12M charge this season and then he is off the books forever. if the jets can restructure chad to $1M they can keep ammortizing the SB over the life of the contract, even if chad is on IR. assuming a new cba is in place the jets could theoretically extend chad's contract @ the $1M/year and keep ammortizing the SB 2M/season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 troll - i am not a cap expert but my understanding is that if the jets release chad prior to march 1 there will be a 12M charge this season and then he is off the books forever. if the jets can restructure chad to $1M they can keep ammortizing the SB over the life of the contract, even if chad is on IR. assuming a new cba is in place the jets could theoretically extend chad's contract @ the $1M/year and keep ammortizing the SB 2M/season. That is my understanding as well. If PennyBoy does not agree to the reduction, I have no doubt that Mangini will release his pathetic a**, take the $12 mil cap hit this year and then move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I have a cap question for either of our "gurus" here: We've all seen the reports - The Jets are $25M over the cap. The Jets are $28M over the cap. The Jets are $25-30M over the cap. The Jets are $32M over the cap. Blah blah blah. (1) Question is regarding Law's cap #. As best I can figure, he'll save somewhere in the $3-4M range by cutting him. He was due an $11M roster bonus in a little over a week, which we're obviously not paying. Those over-the-cap estimates that have us $25-35M over...is that # the result of counting both Law's RB and salary all on the 2006 cap (which would equate to a $14M cap #) OR are those estimates taking into account that we would be able to spread the RB over a # of years & counting him as like $6-7M? And... (2) How does a RB really work? Is there a set rule like a SB where an equal amt comes off the cap for the length of the contract (or as long as the CBA in place allows)? Or can a team, that gave a player a hefty RB, choose each year how much of it comes off the cap in a given year (with the equal amortized # as the minimum it must count). For example, we gave Ellis (I forget exactly) like an $8M RB. If that's on a deal that had 5 years left does a team have the discretion of counting it $1.6M in a given year, or can they choose to have it count say $4M in a given year if they happen to have the room that year, so the cap hits will be lighter for the balance of the contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I have a cap question for either of our "gurus" here: We've all seen the reports - The Jets are $25M over the cap. The Jets are $28M over the cap. The Jets are $25-30M over the cap. The Jets are $32M over the cap. Blah blah blah. (1) Question is regarding Law's cap #. As best I can figure, he'll save somewhere in the $3-4M range by cutting him. He was due an $11M roster bonus in a little over a week, which we're obviously not paying. Those over-the-cap estimates that have us $25-35M over...is that # the result of counting both Law's RB and salary all on the 2006 cap (which would equate to a $14M cap #) OR are those estimates taking into account that we would be able to spread the RB over a # of years & counting him as like $6-7M? And... (2) How does a RB really work? Is there a set rule like a SB where an equal amt comes off the cap for the length of the contract (or as long as the CBA in place allows)? Or can a team, that gave a player a hefty RB, choose each year how much of it comes off the cap in a given year (with the equal amortized # as the minimum it must count). For example, we gave Ellis (I forget exactly) like an $8M RB. If that's on a deal that had 5 years left does a team have the discretion of counting it $1.6M in a given year, or can they choose to have it count say $4M in a given year if they happen to have the room that year, so the cap hits will be lighter for the balance of the contract? Asz I understand, on #2 a roster bonus can count any way you want it to-Either all in the current year or spread out over the length. It is the team's option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 1) Ty Law isn't scheduled to get a roster bonus. He's scheduled to get an Option bonus which triggers the last 6 yrs of his deal. That's a big difference... not to Ty's pocket book (if he did get it), but in terms of the cap. Basically, an option bonus is a signing bonus in the most simplistic terms. It's almost like Law signs a new 6 yr deal with an 11M signing bonus. When people talk about the cap savings, they are taking about saving 2.75M (the 11M over 4 yrs since the CBA says you can not extend it past 2009). Ty Law has 2.4M of guaranteed cash on our cap this year because his 2006 salary of 3M was guaranteed by incentives. The Jets elected to pay it in 2005 as a signing bonus so 600K could count in 2005. The savings people cite when we're 26M over (now 34.3) is Ty saving about 4M. 2) A roster bonus is like a salary advance for the given year. That means it counts ALL IN THE GIVEN YEAR. A lot of times, teams pay the guy the bonus by doing a simple restructuring, which turns it into a signing bonus. However, teams have to get the player to agree to this (no reason why they wouldn't as far as I see), so they can't do whatever they want. For example, Chad Pennington's 3M roster bonus that is due would count on 2006 if he's paid it. However, Ty Law's OPTION BONUS counts 2.75M of the 11M on this year's cap if he was paid it. I have a cap question for either of our "gurus" here: We've all seen the reports - The Jets are $25M over the cap. The Jets are $28M over the cap. The Jets are $25-30M over the cap. The Jets are $32M over the cap. Blah blah blah. (1) Question is regarding Law's cap #. As best I can figure, he'll save somewhere in the $3-4M range by cutting him. He was due an $11M roster bonus in a little over a week, which we're obviously not paying. Those over-the-cap estimates that have us $25-35M over...is that # the result of counting both Law's RB and salary all on the 2006 cap (which would equate to a $14M cap #) OR are those estimates taking into account that we would be able to spread the RB over a # of years & counting him as like $6-7M? And... (2) How does a RB really work? Is there a set rule like a SB where an equal amt comes off the cap for the length of the contract (or as long as the CBA in place allows)? Or can a team, that gave a player a hefty RB, choose each year how much of it comes off the cap in a given year (with the equal amortized # as the minimum it must count). For example, we gave Ellis (I forget exactly) like an $8M RB. If that's on a deal that had 5 years left does a team have the discretion of counting it $1.6M in a given year, or can they choose to have it count say $4M in a given year if they happen to have the room that year, so the cap hits will be lighter for the balance of the contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 OK thanks for clearing that up. But what's the point of giving someone a roster bonus instead of just structuring the player's salary differently for that year. Take a ficticious example: Player X signs a new 6-year contract in 2003 with $10M in bonus money. Assume equal salary amounts for the sake of ease here (though it's never done in reality) of $2M/year. There's a $5M signing bonus at the start and is due another $5M roster bonus in 2005 that "triggers" the remainder of the contract. How is that any different than just saying: $5M Signing bonus 2003: $1M salary 2004: $1M salary 2005: $6M salary 2006: $1M salary 2007: $1M salary 2008: $1M salary There has to be more to it than that, or what's the point of creating a "roster bonus" in the first place? Obviously there's something I'm missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 OK thanks for clearing that up. But what's the point of giving someone a roster bonus instead of just structuring the player's salary differently for that year. Take a ficticious example: Player X signs a new 6-year contract in 2003 with $10M in bonus money. Assume equal salary amounts for the sake of ease here (though it's never done in reality) of $2M/year. There's a $5M signing bonus at the start and is due another $5M roster bonus in 2005 that "triggers" the remainder of the contract. How is that any different than just saying: $5M Signing bonus 2003: $1M salary 2004: $1M salary 2005: $6M salary 2006: $1M salary 2007: $1M salary 2008: $1M salary There has to be more to it than that, or what's the point of creating a "roster bonus" in the first place? Obviously there's something I'm missing. A roster bonus is meant to protect a club in the case of a debilitating injury (imagine that). It is an incentive, but one that must be triggered with the assumption the club still wants you and you are still able to perform. It is less of a handcuff for the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 A roster bonus is meant to protect a club in the case of a debilitating injury (imagine that). It is an incentive, but one that must be triggered with the assumption the club still wants you and you are still able to perform. It is less of a handcuff for the club ah, because you can't cut a player to avoid salary if he's injured. But you apparently can cut him to avoid a roster bonus. That would seem to make sense, but only if his slotted salary for that year was zero, which isn't allowed. So I guess I still don't know how a roster bonus protects a club better than just an inflated salary for that year. I can see how it might protect a player from getting cut 1 day before the season, but that's maybe it. In Chad's case, it particularly is MORE of a handcuff for the club b/c of the date of his roster bonus being at the very start of free-agency AND before the draft. We can't (legally) negotiate with another free-agent QB until after Chad's RB is paid or until he's outright cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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