Watching the Bills is depressing

[choon328]

5 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Shows you it does not take years for a rebuild. Put some weapons around a talented QB and address some weaknesses in your roster.

why are the jets just so inept 

The Bills are a year ahead in their rebuild. In 2019 they brought in 7 new offensive lineman,  Beasley and John Brown. Similar to what the Jets did for 2020 except the Jets haven't been able to start healthy at all.  Unfortunately bc of Gase and the likely departure of Darnold if the Jets continue to lose I think they'll fall 2 years behind. The only hope is going to be drafting Lawrence, spending a ton of money and draft capital to support him while the Bills pay Allen $35-$40 million and lose some talent around him. Also bringing Daboll in as HC would strengthen the Jets and hurt the Bills.  That may even some things out for a while. 

[Wonderboy]

5 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Then why do you watch them play? I try to avoid watching things that depress me. 

It’s not baseball where you’re watching day in day out. 162 vs. 16. I can live with being clinically depressed 16 days a year. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Never would’ve happened. Josh Allen was too superficially reminiscent of Hack for Macc’s tastes.

Yeah, Macc definitely had Rosen ahead of Allen.  He flew across the country to see him at his Pro Day.  We would 100 % have taken Rosen at 3 if Darnold had been taken by the Giants.

[BurnleyJet]

42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah, Macc definitely had Rosen ahead of Allen.  He flew across the country to see him at his Pro Day.  We would 100 % have taken Rosen at 3 if Darnold had been taken by the Giants.

How glorious that would have turned out. Talk about Ultra Jetsy. 

[BurnleyJet]

Number 1) Get Adam ******* Gase alway from this franchise.

You could have the Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith offence, Gase would still **** it up. 

The fish rots from the head down, Ownership is the worst in the league by far. Their Insistence of the GM and HC reporting to ownership stinks. This is the cornerstone of the failure.

The above leads to poor hires, and the hire fire cycle. This years really exposed how bad we have sank. 

The reputation damage is clear, the media loves it’s weekly whipping boy. No on will want to come here. To stop the bleeding Gase must go just to calm the stupidity. 

Chris Johnson’s week one defence of the “Genius” Gase, put massive egg on his face. It’s put back the firing of Gase by weeks, if not to the end of the year.

I don’t think it will the end of the year, simply because we are so awful, it’s just how many more weeks?

I also fear watching all this unfold, that Douglas isn’t the GM I thought he was.

All in all a total sh*t show, that makes Rich Kotite not look so bad, at least his team was competitive.

Gase is by far the worst coach we’ve ever had. Things are going to get very ugly in the coming weeks, the schedule is brutal. 

I’ve Got the popcorn ready, since I expect it’s going to be a total disaster.

We are years away from competing, I’d be happy at the moment looking like an actual NFL team. Calling us a CFL team is an insult to the CFL, Go Jets!

[predator_05]

Josh Allen's improvement from year 1, to year 2, to year 3 is something i have never seen in any NFL QB. 

He looks a different player, and he's improved so much in such a short time. This was the most inaccurate QB coming out of college. He was looking like a 2nd EJ Manuel. His story is extraordinary. 

 

His success strengthens the argument in favor of 'nurture' over nature; as observed in the continuity in his coaching staff and the incremental improvements made on the offensive side of the ball through draft and FA acquisitions (WRs, RBs, OL). 

 

This is precisely why scouts overrate 'physical' traits like arm strength, athleticism, durability along with 'intangibles' - like being a 'winner' and natural charisma. They hope to hit on a Josh allen, or earlier, a Cam Newton. If he's such a good athlete and 'looks' the part, he'll probably pan out. Stats and efficiency be damned. Allen represents the best case scenario for that line of thought. 

Many prospects with this kind of profile are failures, and there's no such thing as a perfect prospect. But it just goes to show how scouting successful NFL QBs is an imperfect science. Darnold was far superior to Allen in college, i could have never taken Allen in the 2nd round, let alone early 1st. 

 

[southparkcpa]

3 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

This is precisely why scouts overrate 'physical' traits like arm strength, athleticism, durability along with 'intangibles' - like being a 'winner' and natural charisma. They hope to hit on a Josh allen, or earlier, a Cam Newton. If he's such a good athlete and 'looks' the part, he'll probably pan out. 

 

THIS. We draft guys who it turns out have NO passion or when they get here they realize we are a joke. From Coples to Wilkerson to Leo.   

One of my favorite things to tell young kids interviewing is say the following  " If you hire me, I guarantee in two years you will be be bragging and using to your advantage the fact that you identified my talent. You will not be sorry you hired me. I promise you that."  We want guys with that attitiude.

[predator_05]

8 hours ago, Ecmic said:

There’s a bit of discounting going on here and there regarding Allen’s own impact on his personal development.

Yes, he’s been the beneficiary of great coaching, but coaching is only useful up to the point that the player wants to put in the work to get better. Allen has improved each year because he’s competitive as f*** and doesn’t want to lose, and doesn’t want to be outworked. case in point: his deep ball has dramatically improved since last year. He makes better decisions on deep throws, and is more accurate on the deep throws he chooses to make. His coaching has remained pretty much the same year-over-year. His improvement is largely about his recognition of an area that needed work, and then putting in the hard f***ing work to go out and improve.

People rag on him for his boneheaded plays, but those plays are a direct reflection of how much Allen “wants it” (his words). He goes hard on the field because it matters to him, alot; do you think that kind of ethic doesn’t translate to how he approaches practice and reps as well??? His teammates see it, and they’ve expressed their desire to go hard for him, because they know he’s ALWAYS going to go hard for them (their words). 

Allen’s shown that fire since Day 1. He still holds a legit grudge against Fresno State for not giving the local kid a chance. Guys don’t go from Fresno State rejects to NFL MVP talk simply because of “coaching”. Allen’s competitive fire and drive to be the best he can be has been instrumental in his continued, year-over-year development. Does Darnold show that fire? Isn’t that at least a little important in quarterback evaluation?

He combines frat boy confidence with raw athleticism. 

I honestly believed he'd be a bust, i was on record as early as this August, saying that Darnold will have a better career than Allen. That kind of improvement cannot happen without internal motivation. 

 

7 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

The only thing that Allen had to do in order to become a more deadly QB than Sam, was improved accuracy. And that he has. This kid is legit. 

Because he came in already much bigger, stronger (Roethlisberger like), much stronger of a cannon for an arm, way more athleticism as a dual threat QB who can actually fly when running downhill and oh yeah. His arm strength is top 5 it's an absolute cannon. And just the threat of him running makes his play action way more dangerous than Sam too. His down field passing attack is something Sam has never had within his physical traits either. 

He's in a better situation with Buffalo but pound for pound he's just a more talented physical QB than Sam Darnold. 

I wanted Sam so bad coming out. I didn't believe in Allen or his accuracy but I've been proven wrong Josh Allen is an animal out there. 

Roethlisberger had a near perfect situation to walk into. That steelers team was absolutely stacked. He won his first 12 games as a starter on training wheels. 

Allen's story is way more impressive. This kid actually makes plays. He's like a better version of Cam Newton. 

 

9 hours ago, jacarter220 said:

No doubt about it. Allen was INCREDIBLY raw when he was drafted. The ONLY reason he is where he is is because of coaching. He wasn't the guy that came out of college "pro-ready".... He was by far the biggest "project" QB, although talent-wise, he had the biggest upside. 
 

At this point, i doubt anyone could tell you with any certainty what a 'pro ready' prospect looks like. There's no consensus, and the lines are blurrier than ever. 

Those peyton manning or andrew luck types are once in a  decade. The rest are all imperfect prospects, who might or might not make it. 

We heard the same criticism of Justin Herbert a few months ago; that he came out of a gimmicky shotgun offense, wasn't 'pro ready', would need to sit a season to learn the position. He walks in, and plays like he's been in the NFL for years. 

It's becoming more and more of a crapshoot. 

[predator_05]

14 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

THIS. We draft guys who it turns out have NO passion or when they get here they realize we are a joke. From Coples to Wilkerson to Leo.   

One of my favorite things to tell young kids interviewing is say the following  " If you hire me, I guarantee in two years you will be be bragging and using to your advantage the fact that you identified my talent. You will not be sorry you hired me. I promise you that."  We want guys with that attitiude.

I agree in principle, but there's another side to this. 

Public displays of confidence would be endearing in a small market but in NY, they'd label you a fraud as quickly as they can. They'll build you up and then tear you down. Media and public over here is ruthless, they've seen it all before. You gotta have really, really thick skin.

 More importantly, your team-mates (or colleagues) will think less of you if you fall short of expectation. it's a tough balancing act. 

If you talk a big game, you gotta back it up. Eli manning kept his mouth shut and stayed out of the headlines as much as he could, gave all the credit to his team-mates and took none for himself. it's what earned him an extra 2 seasons when he was washed up and past his prime. Darnold has that same approach - no social media, no headlines - but he's not gonna win games in such a dysfunctional organization. 

[Rhg1084]

Allen is on pace for 60 TDs this year 

[bealeb319]

Shows you it does not take years for a rebuild. Put some weapons around a talented QB and address some weaknesses in your roster.
why are the jets just so inept 

You realize it did take them years to put that roster togeather?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[T0mShane]

Bills are a paper tiger. They beat the awful Jets by ten, but then squeaked by the Dolphins and Rams by three points each, then the Raiders by seven. They’re going to run into a wall if/when they play the Titans and Chiefs the next two weeks

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, predator_05 said:

I agree in principle, but there's another side to this. 

Public displays of confidence would be endearing in a small market but in NY, they'd label you a fraud as quickly as they can. They'll build you up and then tear you down. Media and public over here is ruthless, they've seen it all before. You gotta have really, really thick skin.

 More importantly, your team-mates (or colleagues) will think less of you if you fall short of expectation. it's a tough balancing act. 

If you talk a big game, you gotta back it up. Eli manning kept his mouth shut and stayed out of the headlines as much as he could, gave all the credit to his team-mates and took none for himself. it's what earned him an extra 2 seasons when he was washed up and past his prime. Darnold has that same approach - no social media, no headlines - but he's not gonna win games in such a dysfunctional organization. 

I don't think you have to brag... Tom Brady didn't brag but he told the Pats  You won't be sorry.   It's something that you convince the GM of, not an outward show of confidence.

[Sharky7337]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bills are a paper tiger. They beat the awful Jets by ten, but then squeaked by the Dolphins and Rams by three points each, then the Raiders by seven. They’re going to run into a wall if/when they play the Titans and Chiefs the next two weeks

You see how close the dolphins played the seahawks?

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

THIS. We draft guys who it turns out have NO passion or when they get here they realize we are a joke. From Coples to Wilkerson to Leo.   

One of my favorite things to tell young kids interviewing is say the following  " If you hire me, I guarantee in two years you will be be bragging and using to your advantage the fact that you identified my talent. You will not be sorry you hired me. I promise you that."  We want guys with that attitiude.

Prior to getting drafed, Josh Rosen was talking about winning 7 Superbowls.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 hours ago, Gibby said:

Agreed. If the Jets drafted Allen and the Bills had Darnold...... things would be exactly the same... Allen would blow-  and Darnold would be thriving in Buffalo. Worst organization in all of professional sports 

There's really no basis for this other than a desire that it was so.

Say the Jets had drafted Matt Leinart in '06. Your line above would be spoken by many as gospel as to why he sucked: how he came from a top program; how he was the most polished prospect to come out since Peyton Manning; how we ruined him just like we ruined Josh McCown when we had him, too; how we didn't surround him with top receivers like they had on a team like the Cardinals where anyone would turn into a great QB. 

And that's the truth.

[kdels62]

12 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

You see how close the dolphins played the seahawks?

Seahawks have a historically terrible defense.

[southparkcpa]

30 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Prior to getting drafed, Josh Rosen was talking about winning 7 Superbowls.

No one said it was easy BUT look at their track record, try to identify ambition.  Industry has created tools to try to eliminate hiring errors. Is it perfect? no BUT it's better than nothing.

 

Client of mine told me when she is giving a person a plant tour, and they are walking behind her, slower than her, she has learned NEVER hire that person.  Subtle things.... ever see people who "shuffle as they walk slow".  Usually a sign of lack of enthusiasm and ambition. 

 

[ZachEY]

14 hours ago, Gibby said:

I disagree... it’s all about the team, coaches and culture.

Allen has a monster arm and mobility.  I'm surprised he's doing this well, though not completely sold on him yet.  Darnold has literally nothing.  That's what everyone who makes these arguments fails to acknowledge.  There is nothing that stands out about Darnold, nothing he does very well.  Careers aren't made exclusively on making the occasional nice play when things break down.

[RocketBills]

11 hours ago, SAR I said:

Bills are just doing what they always do-  beating the weaklings on their schedule.  

Wake me when they beat a team that ends the year with a winning record.  In the Allen/McDermott era they can only beat the Titans with a quarterback not named Tannehill.  

If the Bills want to earn respect they have to beat some real teams.  

SAR I

Good morning my friend!  Hope you are doing well.  Just wanted to say that I'm fairly certain the Rams will have a winning record when the season is over and I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders did as well.  Just saying.  Maybe start to give the Bill's a microcosm of respect?

Keep grinding and beat the Fish this year!!

John

[CanadaSteve]

14 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Shows you it does not take years for a rebuild. Put some weapons around a talented QB and address some weaknesses in your roster.

why are the jets just so inept 

Because every year we don't go to the Super Bowl, the fans scream for everyone to be fired, and then nothing ever gets done. 

We have a BAD football team that will need 2-3 years of good drafting.  Your comment is true IF you don't draft as bad as we have for 7 years.  Buffalo did not, and that is why when they got Josh Allen and then took a year to surround him with some good players, it didn't take them very long.

We are going to need about 2 more years to be where we want to be, which is why Trevor Lawrence might not be out of the picture.  That way, Joe Douglas has HIS QB and will surround him with the players HE needs.  

It would also help if ownership stopped repeating one of the dumbest mistakes in the NFL: hiring a GM who doesn't hire his own coach, and each reports separately to the owner.  Perhaps that will change once Gase is gone.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

Joe Douglas doesn't care about the current Jets . He upgraded NOTHING . He gave away all of Sam's tools . Robbie Anderson is a bum , but Sam needed him . Hell , BILAL would be an upgrade at this point .

[Tezza]

Allen is just better than Darnold. It’s hard to admit but it’s true. 

Completely agree, if we supported Darnold better from the get go it could be a questionable opinion but for now it's true

[mphtrilogy]

Watching all of the NFL is depressing....

[SAR I]

25 minutes ago, RocketBills said:

Good morning my friend!  Hope you are doing well.  Just wanted to say that I'm fairly certain the Rams will have a winning record when the season is over and I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders did as well.  Just saying.  Maybe start to give the Bill's a microcosm of respect?

Keep grinding and beat the Fish this year!!

John

Chiefs
Patriots
Seahawks
at 49ers
Steelers
at Patriots

Go a minimum of 3-3 in these games and we'll talk about respect.  I didn't put the Titans on there because you have some mojo over them, but that's a big one too.

Note, I am not a hater.  I think Josh Allen is a good kid, I like him, and I like the way your team plays, they're a fun watch.  But facts are facts and the Bills aren't a playoff team until they start beating some playoff teams.  I would have to believe that as a Bills fan this is something you want to see as well.

SAR I

[RocketBills]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Chiefs
Patriots
Seahawks
at 49ers
Steelers
at Patriots

Go a minimum of 3-3 in these games and we'll talk about respect.  I didn't put the Titans on there because you have some mojo over them, but that's a big one too.

Note, I am not a hater.  I think Josh Allen is a good kid, I like him, and I like the way your team plays, they're a fun watch.  But facts are facts and the Bills aren't a playoff team until they start beating some playoff teams.  I would have to believe that as a Bills fan this is something you want to see as well.

SAR I

Absolutely I want that.   I want us to beat every team on our schedule and go 16-0.  Not gonna happen but you know what I mean.  It started last year with nearly beating the Ravens and the Patriots.  It's continued this year with beating the Rams who are a very good and very fundamentally sound football team.  Even with the covid losses to the Titans, Tannehill is playing lights out and if the Bills win in Tennessee on the road, I will also count that as a win against a quality opponent.  Going 3-3 against the teams on your list above...I agree.  3-3 or 4-2 and I will start to believe the hype myself.  Right now I am cautiously optimistic that the Bill's 4-0 start is legit.  On offense, they have yet to establish the run BUT have a rb that is averaging 5 yards per carry.  That tells me they have the ability to open up the run when and if they choose to do so.  And defensively, three new guys along the D.line rotation and having Edmunds and Milano banged up this season have really kept them from performing to the level they achieved last season.  However, they showed flashes of last year's defense at times yesterday and defenses across the league look like trash so far this year.  If they start playing even half as well as they did last season, I think the Bill's can make a strong playoff push this year.  The scary thing is, it's obvious at 4-0 they haven't even come close to reaching their full potential yet.  

I always enjoy talking with you.  Keep your head up and enjoy the ride.  It's going to be a long and strange season for all of us!

John

[jamesr]

15 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Jets passed on these QBs when they desperately needed a starter:

Mahomes (GOAT in the making)

Deshaun Watson

Josh Allen

Lamar Jackson

I wanted Mahomes so badly. This organization can not do anything right. We still have a “genius” coaching the team. 

Think what Bowles would have done with Mahomes.

Think what Gase would have done with Mahomes.

Then pour a stiff drink and try not to think about it.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Client of mine told me when she is giving a person a plant tour, and they are walking behind her, slower than her, she has learned NEVER hire that person.  Subtle things.... ever see people who "shuffle as they walk slow".  Usually a sign of lack of enthusiasm and ambition. 

I have a tendency to walk a little behind people in those situations (but note that I don't "shuffle") as well, but it has nothing to do with a lack of enthusiasm or ambition.  The larger factors are a bit of social awkwardness and deference/respect for the person "leading" in those situations.

Obviously, its a policy that has served her well, but I'd say using a term like "never" for hiring a person like that is an imperfect science, especially if you're not taking in ALL the information at your disposal to make a decision.

[CanadaSteve]

50 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Joe Douglas doesn't care about the current Jets . He upgraded NOTHING . He gave away all of Sam's tools . Robbie Anderson is a bum , but Sam needed him . Hell , BILAL would be an upgrade at this point .

Sorry, where is the snoring emoji on here.....

 

[southparkcpa]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I have a tendency to walk a little behind people in those situations (but note that I don't "shuffle") as well, but it has nothing to do with a lack of enthusiasm or ambition.  The larger factors are a bit of social awkwardness and deference/respect for the person "leading" in those situations.

Obviously, its a policy that has served her well, but I'd say using a term like "never" for hiring a person like that is an imperfect science, especially if you're not taking in ALL the information at your disposal to make a decision.

always outliers....  

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, RocketBills said:

Good morning my friend!  Hope you are doing well.  Just wanted to say that I'm fairly certain the Rams will have a winning record when the season is over and I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders did as well.  Just saying.  Maybe start to give the Bill's a microcosm of respect?

Keep grinding and beat the Fish this year!!

John

I was a music major at Fredonia in the 80's and was extremely impressed with the Bills fan base. I personally hope the Bills go 12-4 and win a SB just to stick it up the Johnsons arse!!!!

You guys get a bad repo but amongst the most loyal fans.  I hope you blow us out big time.  ANYTHING to embarrass the Johnsons.

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

always outliers....  

And those outliers are always worth paying attention to rather than ruling out immediately.  Gladwell's Outliers and David and Goliath are good reads there.  A few pointed questions can help determine who the outliers are.  

I'm not certain that I'm all that much of an outlier in this case, however.  I have to believe there are others like me with that particular characteristic I described.

[nyjunc]

15 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Shows you it does not take years for a rebuild. Put some weapons around a talented QB and address some weaknesses in your roster.

why are the jets just so inept 

The bills missed the playoffs from 2000-2015, they haven't won a playoff game since 1995.  Is say it took a few years to rebuild.

[bitonti]

Allen was always the rarer athlete
The draft is about upside always
Sam has no physical upside despite his 40 yard scamper

It is now. Didn’t have to be that way. The bills did everything to support the young QB.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, RocketBills said:

Absolutely I want that.   I want us to beat every team on our schedule and go 16-0.  Not gonna happen but you know what I mean.  It started last year with nearly beating the Ravens and the Patriots.  It's continued this year with beating the Rams who are a very good and very fundamentally sound football team.  Even with the covid losses to the Titans, Tannehill is playing lights out and if the Bills win in Tennessee on the road, I will also count that as a win against a quality opponent.  Going 3-3 against the teams on your list above...I agree.  3-3 or 4-2 and I will start to believe the hype myself.  Right now I am cautiously optimistic that the Bill's 4-0 start is legit.  On offense, they have yet to establish the run BUT have a rb that is averaging 5 yards per carry.  That tells me they have the ability to open up the run when and if they choose to do so.  And defensively, three new guys along the D.line rotation and having Edmunds and Milano banged up this season have really kept them from performing to the level they achieved last season.  However, they showed flashes of last year's defense at times yesterday and defenses across the league look like trash so far this year.  If they start playing even half as well as they did last season, I think the Bill's can make a strong playoff push this year.  The scary thing is, it's obvious at 4-0 they haven't even come close to reaching their full potential yet.  

I always enjoy talking with you.  Keep your head up and enjoy the ride.  It's going to be a long and strange season for all of us!

John

Good post, I agree with it all.

Just one word of caution:  We Jets fans aren't expert at much, but we know when a team has really turned a corner and when it hasn't.  We have witnessed four or five versions of Jets teams since the 90's that looked like they were ascending but, in fact, were just a mirage.  You've got 3 classes of teams in the NFL-  Bottom Feeders, Average Hovers, and Elites.   

It's easy to see, and to get excited about, a team that moves from Bottom Feeder to Average Hover, they start winning the games they should and come close in the games they shouldn't.  Just good enough to get you confident against the scrubs but crush you like a grape against the better teams.  Herman Edwards was the King of Average Hover.  Every year we would beat every scrub on the schedule (except for one crushing loss) and lose to every elite on the schedule (except one shocking win).  And we'd go into the playoffs and get our asses handed to us, a reminder that we weren't really a playoff team just yet.

Beating winning teams consistently is the benchmark.  That's how you know you've really turned the corner.

SAR I