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Watching the Bills is depressing


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14 hours ago, Jetster said:

He can just flip his wrist & throw it 35 yards on a rope standing on his back foot. 
Watch Sams throws from his back foot. 
Jets missed again! 

So swap the two guys right now. Jets drafted Allen, Bills got Sam, everything else stays the same.

Are we 4-0? Are Buffalo 0-4? I don't buy either outcome.

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33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And those outliers are always worth paying attention to rather than ruling out immediately.  Gladwell's Outliers and David and Goliath are good reads there.  A few pointed questions can help determine who the outliers are.  

I'm not certain that I'm all that much of an outlier in this case, however.  I have to believe there are others like me with that particular characteristic I described.

I've read them both. Also, Tipping Point is great. But another quote I like is

 

"1,000 workers, when polled, 90 percent said they were above average and were ambitious. "  Obviously, this can't be.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The fish rots from the head down, Ownership is the worst in the league by far. Their Insistence of the GM and HC reporting to ownership stinks. This is the cornerstone of the failure.

 

Lots of teams have the same structure. Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane both report to Pegula up in Buffalo, for example.

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14 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'm not sure that is as true as people make it out to be. Allen is a gamer. The guy fought and clawed at each level to get recognized and when he was, all he did was improve and impress. He's one of those guys that would lose an arm if it meant he could win a Superbowl. He's simply willed the Bills to some wins (most 4th quarter comebacks in the league). He attacks his flaws. He said last season the deep ball would not be a problem anymore and he he looks to have fixed it. His footwork looks to be much improved and guys like Jordan Palmer talk about how coachable he is that he's not one of those guys that shows up during the day, does what you tell them, but then as soon as you're not there goes back to his old way of doing it. He desperately wants to be better and he soaks it up. It's not a surprise that he and Jackson look like the two best QB in that draft. They're both the biggest gamers. 

Sam didn't have a chance with this organization, but pretending that Allen doesn't seem way more driven than Sam is doesn't seem accurate either. 

Oh there's no doubt about it. I'll be honest, I'm a Bills fan. The one thing that I've said from his first NFL snaps was this. As corny as it sounds, he has the most competitive fire of any QB I've ever seen. His will to win at any cost is incredible, and you're right - that's definitely not a quality where Sam is anywhere remotely close to him. He's incredibly driven. But again - the minimal coaching that Darnold has received in NY would have been a career-ender because Sam at least came in "pro-ready" from a "pro-style" offense at USC. Josh was so raw, but a lot of people recognized the talent and the potential ceiling. Even as a Bills fan and a Josh Allen fan - I don't think any of us Bills fans thought his ceiling could be as high as it has been through these first four weeks. And that just back to his competitiveness and his drive to be the best.

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2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

 

It would also help if ownership stopped repeating one of the dumbest mistakes in the NFL: hiring a GM who doesn't hire his own coach, and each reports separately to the owner.  Perhaps that will change once Gase is gone.

The same "dumb" mistake that Buffalo made?

Andy Reid reports to the KC owner, not the GM.

In SF, it was Shanahan who picked Lynch to be the GM, not the other way around.

This really is more common place than people here make out. The real difference is we hire bozos.

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3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Bills are a paper tiger. They beat the awful Jets by ten, but then squeaked by the Dolphins and Rams by three points each, then the Raiders by seven. They’re going to run into a wall if/when they play the Titans and Chiefs the next two weeks

Unless you are rooting for an Adam Gase coached team, the NFL is league of close games - The largest margin of victory yesterday was 14 points. 

The Bills are good and Allen is playing as well as any QB in the league. Their defense isn't as good as it was last year, but their offense looks 10 times better.  

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4 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Because every year we don't go to the Super Bowl, the fans scream for everyone to be fired, and then nothing ever gets done. 

We have a BAD football team that will need 2-3 years of good drafting.  Your comment is true IF you don't draft as bad as we have for 7 years.  Buffalo did not, and that is why when they got Josh Allen and then took a year to surround him with some good players, it didn't take them very long.

We are going to need about 2 more years to be where we want to be, which is why Trevor Lawrence might not be out of the picture.  That way, Joe Douglas has HIS QB and will surround him with the players HE needs.  

It would also help if ownership stopped repeating one of the dumbest mistakes in the NFL: hiring a GM who doesn't hire his own coach, and each reports separately to the owner.  Perhaps that will change once Gase is gone.

I have been hearing we are 2-3 years out since 2010. Drafting alone will not work. Our picks this year are making zero contribution for example 

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2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

The bills missed the playoffs from 2000-2015, they haven't won a playoff game since 1995.  Is say it took a few years to rebuild.

Not sure your point here. Are you saying if they were trying to rebuild in 2008 it effects the current roster?

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2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Good post, I agree with it all.

Just one word of caution:  We Jets fans aren't expert at much, but we know when a team has really turned a corner and when it hasn't.  We have witnessed four or five versions of Jets teams since the 90's that looked like they were ascending but, in fact, were just a mirage.  You've got 3 classes of teams in the NFL-  Bottom Feeders, Average Hovers, and Elites.   

It's easy to see, and to get excited about, a team that moves from Bottom Feeder to Average Hover, they start winning the games they should and come close in the games they shouldn't.  Just good enough to get you confident against the scrubs but crush you like a grape against the better teams.  Herman Edwards was the King of Average Hover.  Every year we would beat every scrub on the schedule (except for one crushing loss) and lose to every elite on the schedule (except one shocking win).  And we'd go into the playoffs and get our asses handed to us, a reminder that we weren't really a playoff team just yet.

Beating winning teams consistently is the benchmark.  That's how you know you've really turned the corner.

SAR I

That makes a lot of sense and I know the feeling.  Question.  Seems like it was around 2005 or 2006.  I remember that Herm was the head coach and Pennington was the QB.  Seems like the Jets made the playoffs off the play of a good defense and a decent but streaky offense.  Beat the Chargers in the 1st round and lost to the Steelers in overtime the next round if memory serves me correctly.  Did you enjoy that season and those years as much as when you had Sanchez and that vaunted defense that looked like it was on the verge of becoming a perineal top 5-10 team in the league?  Who is remembered more fondly in Jets land.  Pennington or Sanchez?

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3 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I've read them both. Also, Tipping Point is great. But another quote I like is

 

"1,000 workers, when polled, 90 percent said they were above average and were ambitious. "  Obviously, this can't be.

Most people think they're above average at most things.  That isn't exclusive to work. 

But of course you're correct that this always skews our thinking. 

To extend this out, however:  Employers need to check their biases, too.  I'm sure most or nearly all employers think they're above average at identifying and hiring talent. 

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21 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Shows you it does not take years for a rebuild. Put some weapons around a talented QB and address some weaknesses in your roster.

why are the jets just so inept 

Why is it depressing , it shows the Jets O can turn this around quickly with a few more talent acquisitions

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5 hours ago, jamesr said:

The same "dumb" mistake that Buffalo made?

Andy Reid reports to the KC owner, not the GM.

In SF, it was Shanahan who picked Lynch to be the GM, not the other way around.

This really is more common place than people here make out. The real difference is we hire bozos.

I will stand by the statement.  Its great to cherry-pick the instances when it has worked, but my guess is if I felt like doing the research (which I don't), I bet there are more failing examples. 

If it is not the case, then I humbly would admit it is the wrong perspective.

 

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4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Not sure your point here. Are you saying if they were trying to rebuild in 2008 it effects the current roster?

We are going through what they went through. Long term pain until they finally put the right people in place.  Our situation won't change until that happens. I still believe in Douglas, Jets see what he can do with hiring a HC and all these picks over the next couple of drafts.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Chris Johnson does suck, it's time for Woody to come back regardless what happens next month.

Woody hired Idzik, MAc and put Chris in charge.  he lived on the fumes of Parcells and the luck of REX to cover his extremely poor skills.  Woody is a very poor owner with no tangible business skills to substantiate your Pom Pom waving.  

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13 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Woody hired Idzik, MAc and put Chris in charge.  he lived on the fumes of Parcells and the luck of REX to cover his extremely poor skills.  Woody is a very poor owner with no tangible business skills to substantiate your Pom Pom waving.  

Woody's made mistakes but nothing like Chris.

 

Woody ran the franchise for 17 seasons.  In those 17 seasons they made the playoffs 6 times (they only made it 8 times in other 44 seasons), won 6 playoff games (same number as other 44 seasons), won 2nd ever AFC East title (and only one Brady did not win), made 2 AFC Championship Games and never had back to back losing seasons- we are on our 4tg straight since he left.

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2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Woody's made mistakes but nothing like Chris.

 

Woody ran the franchise for 17 seasons.  In those 17 seasons they made the playoffs 6 times (they only made it 8 times in other 44 seasons), won 6 playoff games (same number as other 44 seasons), won 2nd ever AFC East title (and only one Brady did not win), made 2 AFC Championship Games and never had back to back losing seasons- we are on our 4tg straight since he left.

You defend mediocrity...  I won't stop you.  Woody is a moron and everyone knows it except maybe you.

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16 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

You defend mediocrity...  I won't stop you.  Woody is a moron and everyone knows it except maybe you.

Our fanbase is filled with morons.  The same fanbase that bashes Rex and herm and praises mangini, bashes Sanchez and Pennington and praises favre, bashed Bradway and wanted him gone from the organization (how have we done since he was fired?), Bashed schotty and wanted him gone,...

 

If I'm against most Jet fans that's ok.  We deserve the product we've seen the last 10 seasons

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3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Our fanbase is filled with morons.  The same fanbase that bashes Rex and herm and praises mangini, bashes Sanchez and Pennington and praises favre, bashed Bradway and wanted him gone from the organization (how have we done since he was fired?), Bashed schotty and wanted him gone,...

 

If I'm against most Jet fans that's ok.  We deserve the product we've seen the last 10 seasons

REX was another moron. A lucky 2 year run and you anoint him.  He is so far below average....   the JETS are the only team to stay bad after firing him.

 

The Ravens have enjoyed BIG success when they wouldn't give him the HC job. THEY know 1 dimensional when they see it.

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3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

REX was another moron. A lucky 2 year run and you anoint him.  He is so far below average....   the JETS are the only team to stay bad after firing him.

 

The Ravens have enjoyed BIG success when they wouldn't give him the HC job. THEY know 1 dimensional when they see it.

Harbaugh is the best HC in football, not a negative that Rex was passed over.

Rex was a moron but mangini was a mangenius ?. This line of thinking is why we can't have nice things

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13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Harbaugh is the best HC in football, not a negative that Rex was passed over.

Rex was a moron but mangini was a mangenius ?. This line of thinking is why we can't have nice things

who defends Mangini on this board???  We have hired morons under Woody. ALL Morons. Herm was NOT a good HC. He had a talented roster and never won more than 10 games.  In KC he was a bust.   Without Chad, he was toast. But Woody, with NO brains, let the NFL push him into hiring Herm to check a box.

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i certainly don' want the bills to win because they play in the same division as the jets but they've gone 17 seasons without a playoff appearance and now they've made two going on three in the past four seasons.  give them some credit.  allen came into a good situation with a front office and coaching staff that wants to put a good team on the field and then makes good drafting decisions.  and it really isn't because mcdermott is some coaching whirlwind.  their points differential isn't that great.  they're just winning at the moment.

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22 hours ago, nyjunc said:

We are going through what they went through. Long term pain until they finally put the right people in place.  Our situation won't change until that happens. I still believe in Douglas, Jets see what he can do with hiring a HC and all these picks over the next couple of drafts.

that's too logical.  i believe most nfl teams have pretty evenly distributed talent but the jets really got lopsided with mac and idzik mainly because of the way these clowns drafted.  the raft of injuries only exacerbate the main issue. douglas is off to a decent start.  if clark, mims and zuniga make good contributions then he's a friggin superstar.

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7 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i certainly don' want the bills to win because they play in the same division as the jets but they've gone 17 seasons without a playoff appearance and now they've made two going on three in the past four seasons.  give them some credit.  allen came into a good situation with a front office and coaching staff that wants to put a good team on the field and then makes good drafting decisions.  and it really isn't because mcdermott is some coaching whirlwind.  their points differential isn't that great.  they're just winning at the moment.

The bills winning the division in a season in which Brady is gone and the pats suck is a black eye for the jets ownership 

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2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The bills winning the division in a season in which Brady is gone and the pats suck is a black eye for the jets ownership 

maybe.  sometimes you just have to make lemonade.  i certainly didn't think the jets would be looking this bad so i am resigned to the bills winning.  it could still be an interesting race.

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7 minutes ago, rangerous said:

maybe.  sometimes you just have to make lemonade.  i certainly didn't think the jets would be looking this bad so i am resigned to the bills winning.  it could still be an interesting race.

The jets being this bad in year 10 of the “true rebuild” is not a good look

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On 10/6/2020 at 12:55 PM, southparkcpa said:

who defends Mangini on this board???  We have hired morons under Woody. ALL Morons. Herm was NOT a good HC. He had a talented roster and never won more than 10 games.  In KC he was a bust.   Without Chad, he was toast. But Woody, with NO brains, let the NFL push him into hiring Herm to check a box.

Herm won a division title, only the second AFC East title in our history and the ONLY one Brady didn't win.  He made the playoffs 3 of 5 years.  The Jets had made the playoffs just 1 time in previous 9 years including missing the 2 previous ones in a row before he took over.  He also made the playoffs with the chiefs.

 

 

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