Jordan Palmer would take Sam over Trevor Lawrence

[Sperm Edwards]

49 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Irregardless of your evaluation of Darnold vs Lawrence or a rookie this is a salary cap sport. The Jets are going to restart the clock if they can. 

[jeremy2020]

11 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Palmer has also coached Christian Hackenberg and is on tape as being very optimistic about his future. All possible at a far distant semi colon in the future tense.

Christian Hackenberg could be the greatest QB ever. We can't know because he's never played in an NFL game. ~ @UnitedWhofans

[Beerfish]

16 minutes ago, KINGDIRK said:

I think the difference is night and day. 

Lawrence comes in on a rookie contract with a left tackle already in place. A GM with extra premium picks and a lot of cap space. On the contrary when Darnold showed up we were down multiple second rounders. 

Think about it. Seattle’s first, our own second and third, Seattle’s third. Plus cap space. Oh and Lawrence doesn’t get Gase as HC.

Lawrence will be in a much better position to succeed. 

You are making assumption like many other in here, assumption 1 no gase, assumption 2 c johsnon picks someone much better.

Also I'd rather keep darnold with all of these pending improvment and build the team, add even more picks when some team wants to trade up for lawrence.

Right now we have what looks like a premium LT and no one else from alst year, next year we draft a new batch of rookies.

[NamathToCaster]

Not 100% sure Gase and Douglas are sold on Darnold.  Publicly yes,  but behind the scenes?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Discrediting and crapping on Palmer by JN “experts” in 3.....2....1....

[Sonny Werblin]

IMO the reasons the jets stick with Darnold even if they end up with the #1 overall pick are:

1) Lawrence is not a can’t miss pick on the order of Elway or Luck; 

2) It’s not just Lawrence vs Darnold. Rather its Lawrence vs Darnold with the draft capital JD can secure trading the #1 pick. So, it’s more like Lawrence vs Darnold with 2021 1st and 2d round and 2022 1st and 2d round.

[JetBlue]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I don;t have a huge issue with people wanting to move on from Darnold or want Lawrence.

I have an issue with people thinking there would be any difference with lawrence at qb for this jets team or that Trevor Lawrence is 'generational'

Lawrence has already started over 26 college games in his career.  He career performance puts Darnold to shame.  Granted his team has some very good players but Lawrence was the most highly recruited Quarterback in the country coming out of college (along with Justin Fields).   Generational is a subjective concept; his play on the field is not.  

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, KINGDIRK said:

I think the difference is night and day. 

Lawrence comes in on a rookie contract with a left tackle already in place. A GM with extra premium picks and a lot of cap space. On the contrary when Darnold showed up we were down multiple second rounders. 

Think about it. Seattle’s first, our own second and third, Seattle’s third. Plus cap space. Oh and Lawrence doesn’t get Gase as HC.

Lawrence will be in a much better position to succeed. 

Bingo! 

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I like taking the picks. No matter who is taking snaps the core of the roster needs a huge influx of talent due to years and years of mismanagement. 

In 2022 there will be another hot prospect that everyone thinks is the greatest QB in the last 2000 years to come out of college, until 2023 when it's true again.

Focus on upgrading the roster and creating a stable environment for whoever is eventually the QB. You also have one last year to evaluate Darnold with a better roster and hopefully a better coaching staff. 

This is the ultimate team game. Qb is the most important position but it's not the only position.

That could possibly work but that means letting Darnold walk unless he has a banner year next season.   Who knows maybe Morgan can be a "hold the fort" guy until they find they draft that "hot prospect".   In reality I don't see any of this materializing unless Darnold plays a lot better than he has so far.   JD is not going to pass on his franchise quarterback staring him in the face, for some maybe down the road.   They have plenty of picks to secure talent around which ever QB they take. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Obviously, it all boils down to the jets evaluation of Lawrence vs Darnold. How big of a gap is there between them? And JD knows that Great QBs lose to good QBs with a better supporting cast. How many championships did Luck retire with? It speaks volumes that many of the greatest QBs had zero championships. .  . Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Tarkenton.  It takes more than a great QB to win a SB. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Obviously, it all boils down to the jets evaluation of Lawrence vs Darnold. How big of a gap is there between them? And JD knows that Great QBs lose to good QBs with a better supporting cast. How many championships did Luck retire with? It speaks volumes that many of the greatest QBs had zero championships. .  . Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Tarkenton.  It takes more than a great QB to win a SB. 

Certainly Douglas understands this.  He was with the Eagles when they won a Super Bowl with the backup QB under center.  He also was with the Ravens when they won a Super Bowl with an inferior QB in Joe Flacco.

He also traded down numerous times last draft, and then traded the non-impactful Box Safety for two 1sts and a 3rd.  He knew well before taking this job that the roster was barren and a new QB was not fixing things, at least not right away.

Whether he actually hits on enough of his picks to make things work here remains to be seen, of course.  But his mimicking of the Ozzie Newsome method to the draft tells me he at least understands the basic template for how things are supposed to be done successfully for a franchise.  That's a seismic shift in approach from our last several GM's.

[jetscrazey]

2 hours ago, NamathToCaster said:

Not 100% sure Gase and Douglas are sold on Darnold.  Publicly yes,  but behind the scenes?

I hope Douglas knows he’s set Darnold up to fail.  They may take Lawrence but I think they also realize they have failed to fairly evaluate Darnold.

[Jet2020]

Jordan Palmer would probably want to take both of them...at once. 

Also, Sam is only playing by himself cuz he can’t hit or find open WRs. They are there more often than people think. 

[BurnleyJet]

Jordan Palmer?give me a break, Why don’t we get Payton Manning to call in and say how good he is ?

If we are Drafting #1 and “IF” Lawrence doesn’t decide to stay in College?

We will take Lawrence, I’m hoping we can fleece a 2nd rounder for Darnold? They are definitely going to reset the QB counter, next year.

I’m not happy how this organisation handled Sam, the media is going to push the Jet ruin Quarterbacks narrative to death.

It’s going to be all off season, and may affect Lawrence’s Draft status, which would be very Jetsy.

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

won a Super Bowl with an inferior QB in Joe Flacco.

Flacco is pretty variable...has had some solid years and a buncha meh years...

he wass 4-5 , 2465 12td/6int  when he got benched....  bettern Sam

got hot on the  SB run 11td, 0 int over4 games...

[jetlaw]

This isn’t even a debate. Lawrence is bigger, faster and has a stronger arm than darnold and he was the far superior college player. Darnold has been objectively bad for 4 seasons in a row (last year in college and 3 nfl seasons). Are we really comparing a complete bust in darnold to a generational talent?


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[Augustiniak]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Certainly Douglas understands this.  He was with the Eagles when they won a Super Bowl with the backup QB under center.  He also was with the Ravens when they won a Super Bowl with an inferior QB in Joe Flacco.

He also traded down numerous times last draft, and then traded the non-impactful Box Safety for two 1sts and a 3rd.  He knew well before taking this job that the roster was barren and a new QB was not fixing things, at least not right away.

Whether he actually hits on enough of his picks to make things work here remains to be seen, of course.  But his mimicking of the Ozzie Newsome method to the draft tells me he at least understands the basic template for how things are supposed to be done successfully for a franchise.  That's a seismic shift in approach from our last several GM's.

Not to mention, when he traded all the way back in the 2nd round we all thought mims wouldn’t be there.  The wr run had already happened at the end of the 1st and beginning of the 2nd rounds.  Douglas was in no rush to help darnold out by drafting wrs.  It was quite possible that mims would have been drafted before the end of the 2nd and then the jets top wr drafted would have been maybe in the 3rd round.  There was no mandate to fix the offense in just one offseason, which lends more credibility to the theory that douglas already knew he was drafting another qb next April.

[bealeb319]

The good news is we won't get the first pick and won't have to worry about making this decision anyway

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[Sonny Werblin]

5 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Jordan Palmer would probably want to take both of them...at once. 

Also, Sam is only playing by himself cuz he can’t hit or find open WRs. They are there more often than people think. 

It is far more complicated than just sayimg Sam can’t find the open WR.  In how many of these instances of Sam not seeing an open WR is  the open WRs where he is supposed to be?  Is Sam not seeing an open WR on his primary read? Is he making the wrong read?

No one seems to be answering these questions. Sam had a high Wonderlic, and is an athlete that “seemed” to see the field well in the past. But, the porous line may have created some bad habits on where he is looking. IDK. Certainly the jets and experts should know, but no one ever seems to mention it.

[rangerous]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Listen, and then ask for a couple more first rounders. And still say no. lol.

 

i agree with this assuming lawrence is a generational talent.  i am thinking of the 2009-2010 jets teams.  they had a good talent level but it's not like they had studs across the board.  they had maybe 6 or 7 guys who could really start for other teams and the rest was mainly average.  just like in basketball, where teams need 2 or 3 "superstars" to win the championship, i think football is the same way.  and right now, besides becton, mosely, and darnold the jets don't have any players other teams would want.

[FidelioJet]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

Definition of irregardless

 

nonstandard

: REGARDLESSI told them that irregardless of what you read in books, they's some members of the theatrical profession that occasionally visits the place where they sleep.— Ring Lardner

Frequently Asked Questions About irregardless

Is irregardless a word?

Yes. It may not be a word that you like, or a word that you would use in a term paper, but irregardless certainly is a word. It has been in use for well over 200 years, employed by a large number of people across a wide geographic range and with a consistent meaning. That is why we, and well-nigh every other dictionary of modern English, define this word. Remember that a definition is not an endorsement of a word’s use.

[sciond]

Suck with Sam

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Losmeister said:

Flacco is pretty variable...has had some solid years and a buncha meh years...

he wass 4-5 , 2465 12td/6int  when he got benched....  bettern Sam

got hot on the  SB run 11td, 0 int over4 games...

 

FFS dude.  I never said Sam > Flacco.  Not every post is about Darnold.  You've seen enough posts from me about Darnold to know we agree he sucks.

Flacco was an inferior QB to his Super Bowl-winning peers, period.  Compare him to the other Super Bowl-winning QB's of the decade and it's not close.  He caught lightning in a bottle and had one magical postseason run.  He was a below average QB otherwise.  That became the clear the minute he got paid and they had to build around him.

[nyjunc]

I am certainly not giving up on Sam but Palmer certainly has an agenda since he's his personal QB coach so I don't know how much we can take from his statements.

[JustInFudge]

Ofcourse he's going to say this.  Sam is his client and he doesnt want to look like more a fool than he already does for that ridiculous hype video he put about the mega bust boogie boarder. 

[bitonti]

That phrase salary cap sport explains everything

Darnold is in year 3 of the rookie deal. Year 4 they have to decide on year 5. His 5th year option is 25 million which would be insane that means he gets an extension similar to Matt Stafford 100 million.

The Jets do not want to pay for that. In fact they have not given a first Rd pick a 2nd contract since mo Wilkerson. Therefore they draft another qb and the clock starts again

Whatever we think of darnold, they wasted his rookie deal

What exactly is this supposed to mean?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Barry McCockinner]

28 minutes ago, bitonti said:

That phrase salary cap sport explains everything

Darnold is in year 3 of the rookie deal. Year 4 they have to decide on year 5. His 5th year option is 25 million which would be insane that means he gets an extension similar to Matt Stafford 100 million.

The Jets do not want to pay for that. In fact they have not given a first Rd pick a 2nd contract since mo Wilkerson. Therefore they draft another qb and the clock starts again

Whatever we think of darnold, they wasted his rookie deal

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

OK but he still has a year on his rookie deal. I get why you wouldn't pick up the 5th year option but still they can "reset the clock" in the 2021 draft, 2022 draft, or even the 2023 draft if he has a good/promising but not great 2021 and they want to franchise him for 2022.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else of this but it is my belief that there is something there with Darnold, even though he has not played well. I was more critical of him than most on here last year and somehow now I feel like I'm one of the few left who think there's something there. If the Jets feel the same way they still have a window to evaluate him before resetting the clock. 

It just doesn't seem like we're up against some wall in the 2021 draft to me. Maybe I'm missing something but that's how I see it.

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

inferior QB to his Super Bowl-winning peers, period. 

ah. i thought you meant to all NFL qb, where he was sorta middling.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

ah. i thought you meant to all NFL qb, where he was sorta middling.

Below average to his peers, yes.  "Inferior" would be correct in that sense too. 

He proved to be completely ineffective once the team was no longer able to spend around him, meaning he wasn't worthy of a 2nd contract.  A QB not worthy of a 2nd contract, to me, is inferior. 

No one drafts a QB, especially not in the first round, expecting him not to earn a 2nd contract.  That one magical postseason run with a great team around him is the only thing he has to say he wasn't a failure.  He's basically Trent Dilfer.

[slimjasi]

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/84355/jets-favored-to-land-no-1-pick-huge-qb-decision-on-horizon

Cimini's article yesterday on what the Jets should/would do if they actually did get the number 1 pick, including some of Joe D's early thoughts on Darnold back in 2018. 

[Sonny Werblin]

13 hours ago, KINGDIRK said:

I think the difference is night and day. 

Lawrence comes in on a rookie contract with a left tackle already in place. A GM with extra premium picks and a lot of cap space. On the contrary when Darnold showed up we were down multiple second rounders. 

Think about it. Seattle’s first, our own second and third, Seattle’s third. Plus cap space. Oh and Lawrence doesn’t get Gase as HC.

Lawrence will be in a much better position to succeed. 

Yeah, but Darnold would have all of those things plus the players drafted with the traded #1 pick. Perhaps 2021 and 2022 first and second round picks -- So the choice is Lawrence or Darnold with potentially 4 additional premium players.  Wouldn't that put Darnold in a better position to succeed than Darnold without the 4 additional premium players.

[ZachEY]

14 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Discrediting and crapping on Palmer by JN “experts” in 3.....2....1....

So, you're suggesting that Jordan Palmer's opinion is valid and credible here?

With the knowledge that Sam Darnold literally pays Jordan Palmer?

[Sonny Werblin]

32 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/84355/jets-favored-to-land-no-1-pick-huge-qb-decision-on-horizon

Cimini's article yesterday on what the Jets should/would do if they actually did get the number 1 pick, including some of Joe D's early thoughts on Darnold back in 2018. 

I found this quote interesting. Did Sam not know Hogan was the primary receiver? Or, did he make the wrong read? Or, did he look at Hogan and was gunshy to throw to him? Or, does Sam not understand how the Gase's Offense works? This is really the crux of the Darnold evaluation. Is Gase a poor teacher of his own offense? Is Darnold a poor student? (His wonderlic says otherwise). Has the poor O line play affected Darnold's vision? i.e. is he looking at pass rushers instead of downfield? This really is the evaluation that matters, and if I was Douglas, I'd have someone outside the organization that I trust evaluate these issues so JD make make a decision going forward. 

Quote

Gase caught some flak for calling a wheel route to running back Frank Gore on a third-and-4 from the Denver 14 -- incomplete. Actually, that wasn't the call. Darnold was supposed to look for wide receiver Chris Hogan, who was wide open over the middle at the 10. It would have been an easy first down. At times, Darnold still doesn't see the field as well as he should.

 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I found this quote interesting. Did Sam not know Hogan was the primary receiver? Or, did he make the wrong read? Or, did he look at Hogan and was gunshy to throw to him? Or, does Sam not understand how the Gase's Offense works? This is really the crux of the Darnold evaluation. Is Gase a poor teacher of his own offense? Is Darnold a poor student? (His wonderlic says otherwise). Has the poor O line play affected Darnold's vision? i.e. is he looking at pass rushers instead of downfield? This really is the evaluation that matters, and if I was Douglas, I'd have someone outside the organization that I trust evaluate these issues so JD make make a decision going forward. 

 

Darnold has never shown an ability to consistently read the field well and consistently make good decisions. 

It's the primary reason he's not better than he is, IMO. 

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Darnold has never shown an ability to consistently read the field well and consistently make good decisions. 

It's the primary reason he's not better than he is, IMO. 

He's also always been jittery in the, any proximity of people and he flees....