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Are we that far away on offense?


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I know things seem dark right now but I’m wondering if we are that far away from witnessing a fun/good offense.

Step 1 is obviously get rid of Gase. That’s a must for the offense to have any chance of functioning.

Step 2 is where things get tough.

Assuming you’re in the camp of believing in Sam, Joe D can set him up well next year. I believe Thuney/scherff were on franchise tags. Hopefully one shakes free and Joe hands him a blank check. He can then draft Ja’Marr chase, and a center at the bottom of round one. If the center is good right off the bat, you can move McGovern to guard which many believe he’s better at anyways. You could be looking at line (from left to right) of Mekhi, scherff/thuney, McGovern/rookie, McGovern/cam Clarke, Fant. You’d have Mims and chase on the outside. That’s a good start, then you can start filling in some additional weapons/depth.

If you don’t believe in Sam and we have the top pick, we can draft Lawrence, trade same for a 2nd rounder. Then maybe at the bottom of round one you can still target a center, or take a WR and take a center at top of round 2. You can supplement WR through free agency, maybe a guy like Robinson. The oline would be the same as the above scenario assuming you can lure thuney or scherff. 

Under both scenarios you need to try to fill in some more weapons. Perhaps another solid RB to team up with Perine. Not sure I’ve lost faith in Herndon but some competition wouldn’t hurt. 

Again, none of this matters with Gase calling plays. It’s critical we have a coordinator that understands how to build an offense around the strengths of the players.

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I had a colleague tell me something once that made a lot of sense. There's 3 possible outcomes of any situation: Good, Bad and Unknown. 

Only one of those is a problem and it's unknown. Good is obviously...good. Bad can be fixed. Unknown sucks because you don't know so you can't deal with it.  

Adam Gase makes everything about the Jets unknown. 

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We need 3 or 4 linemen. 1 or 2 tight ends. 3 or 4 wide receivers, depending on if Mims is a player or not. A running back that does more than slowly plod down the A gap and get 2.5 yards as a starter. And a quarterback. We are far far away from having a good offense. 

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16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We have no TEs at all, no rbs, one really  good olinman, a QB the fan base wants to run out of town.  They better hope mims turns out really good.

I think Mims is that Good!!

I truly believe his presence in this offense will make that much of a difference.  Had Mims been healthy we would be 2-2.  
 

Still Gase is the problem.   

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1 hour ago, pointman said:

We need 3 or 4 linemen. 1 or 2 tight ends. 3 or 4 wide receivers, depending on if Mims is a player or not. A running back that does more than slowly plod down the A gap and get 2.5 yards as a starter. And a quarterback. We are far far away from having a good offense. 

O-Line: not as horrible as some think it is.  Coverage sacks, Sam holding the ball too long, and flat out missing guys who are wide open have skewed the opinion.  Becton is looking very promising, Lewis has been serviceable, McGovern has been eh...I’d like to see him improve, but I’d be willing to bet that Greg Van Roten’s play has something to do with it, as he has, admittedly, been atrocious.  Centers who have to compensate for a very bad Guard typically struggle more than they would if they didn’t have to do that.  Fant has been somewhat of a pleasant surprise, only giving up one sack and grading out well.  Overall, I’d give Cameron Clark some time at G, see how he does, throw money at Thuney in FA, and then build up some depth.

WR:  this is the big one.  Perriman, unfortunately, cannot stay healthy.  He’ll be gone.  Jeff Smith looked very good in his debut.   Crowder is a keeper.  Mims is TBD; hopefully he stays healthy for the rest of the year and looks like the guy we hope can be.  Berrios is a back up slot guy.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I’d keep him for ST purposes at the very least.  Beyond that it’s ugly.  Signing JuJu or Allen Robinson and drafting someone should be a high priority.  A scheme with play calling that actually gets these guys open would also help a ton.

TE: Herndon and Griffen need to step it up big time, but, once again, this scheme and play calling is so f*cking bad it’s hard to get a clear read on them.  Mike Gesicki was non-existent under Gase.  Now he’s flourishing.  I think a guy like Herndon would thrive in a Daboll or Roman system. 

RB:  I’m a firm believer that Perine, if used properly (scheme and play calling again), will carve out a Bilal Powell like career.  Gore is washed.  Bell always was a bad fit here, he might be washed too.  Long story short, yeah, we need some fresh blood here.

QB:  I have said enough about that.

Honestly, I know it seems grim, but if Joe Douglas hires a coach that actually knows how to utilize players to their maximum potential, I think we’ll be just fine with some very do-able additions.  

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We are far away but it can be fixed in a year with some luck.

They need to do the following:

1) get a competent head coach in here who can fix the culture, be a hands-on teacher, and leader of men. Xs and Os are good but an OC can do that stuff too.  We need the other intangibles a good HC brings.

2) draft JaMarr Chase.  He will go top 5. Best WR prospect to come out in a few years. 

3) sign Allen Robinson or if not him the best available WR free agent out there.  Best thing about Robinson is his durability,  pray Chicago can’t resign him.

4) Sign the best guard on the market. Becton and Fant are good, Lewis has held his own.  McGovern is so-so but we’re committed to him.  Van Roten is the hole we can release and plug with a free agent without a cap hit. 

With that this can be a totally different offense next year.  With the reduced salary cap next year its a unique opportunity for Joe Douglas, as there will be a lot of good talent released onto the open market with so many teams over the cap.  The Jets, with $90 million in cap space next year even with the reduced cap, are one of the few teams positioned to pounce. 

Of course, the defense is another issue. 

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2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I had a colleague tell me something once that made a lot of sense. There's 3 possible outcomes of any situation: Good, Bad and Unknown. 

Only one of those is a problem and it's unknown. Good is obviously...good. Bad can be fixed. Unknown sucks because you don't know so you can't deal with it.  

Adam Gase makes everything about the Jets unknown. 

Your friend forgot to mention the 4th outcome: it stays the same. ??‍♂️

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The only guys who are virtual locks to be back in 2021 on the offensive side of the ball will be Becton, James Morgan, Perine, Mims and McGovern.  Alex Lewis is likely to be back based on his play at LG this season but is not a lock.  Herndon is cheap so we might as well let him finish out his deal as well.  

I didn't say Crowder is a lock because I don't think it's anything close to a sure thing that we bring him back on his $11.5M cap number.  Berrios has looked good out of the slot and gives us an option there if we decide to cut Crowder loose. 

So that leaves the following needs on offense:  QB1, RB1, WR1/2, TE1, RG, RT.  

 

4hcwty.jpg

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Nothing can be determined with Gase as our head coach and the worst offensive coaching staff I’ve ever seen - nothing!  The only reason at all I can see retaining Gase for the rest of this season is to get the # 1 pick in the draft. Why else would he be kept around - so we can start 0-5 next season? Even head case Robbie Anderson is a star without Gase. This is mind boggling. 

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2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

O-Line: not as horrible as some think it is.  Coverage sacks, Sam holding the ball too long, and flat out missing guys who are wide open have skewed the opinion.  Becton is looking very promising, Lewis has been serviceable, McGovern has been eh...I’d like to see him improve, but I’d be willing to bet that Greg Van Roten’s play has something to do with it, as he has, admittedly, been atrocious.  Centers who have to compensate for a very bad Guard typically struggle more than they would if they didn’t have to do that.  Fant has been somewhat of a pleasant surprise, only giving up one sack and grading out well.  Overall, I’d give Cameron Clark some time at G, see how he does, throw money at Thuney in FA, and then build up some depth.

WR:  this is the big one.  Perriman, unfortunately, cannot stay healthy.  He’ll be gone.  Jeff Smith looked very good in his debut.   Crowder is a keeper.  Mims is TBD; hopefully he stays healthy for the rest of the year and looks like the guy we hope can be.  Berrios is a back up slot guy.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I’d keep him for ST purposes at the very least.  Beyond that it’s ugly.  Signing JuJu or Allen Robinson and drafting someone should be a high priority.  A scheme with play calling that actually gets these guys open would also help a ton.

TE: Herndon and Griffen need to step it up big time, but, once again, this scheme and play calling is so f*cking bad it’s hard to get a clear read on them.  Mike Gesicki was non-existent under Gase.  Now he’s flourishing.  I think a guy like Herndon would thrive in a Daboll or Roman system. 

RB:  I’m a firm believer that Perine, if used properly (scheme and play calling again), will carve out a Bilal Powell like career.  Gore is washed.  Bell always was a bad fit here, he might be washed too.  Long story short, yeah, we need some fresh blood here.

QB:  I have said enough about that.

Honestly, I know it seems grim, but if Joe Douglas hires a coach that actually knows how to utilize players to their maximum potential, I think we’ll be just fine with some very do-able additions.  

Sam is running for his life. The pocket collapses. Thats 100% on the offensive line. 

Perriman is not a top 2 receiver on any team. Crowder is a slow slot. We can improve there. Berrios is not good. Even Juju isn't enough. We need 2 more receivers.

Herndon has proven he has no hands. Griffin is Henry Anderson. Got his check and took the rest of his career off.

Perine, so far in his limited touches, has shown nothing to say he is our feature back.. or even our back up. He so far does not deserve to be compared to Bilal. 

What we have is bad. Very bad. It can be reformed in major fashion in one off season. We can be competitive in one off season. "Rebuild".. years.. maybe to be a championship team but certainly not to compete. 

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It's actually impossible to know right now? Have to wait until this roster gets much healthier. The injuries have been truly depressing. I do know that even 100% healthy this offense is still really, really bad. But IMO that's the only way to do an objective evaluation. Honestly I'm beginning to think we must start by getting did of most, if not ALL, of Mac's draft choices? Chris Herndon is flat out garbage. Chuma Edoga is a rotational player at very best. Not sure any of them are worth holding on to?

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13 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

It is hard to say how far away we truly are because we can't get the whole offense healthy at one time.

This. 

And if Darnold can’t come back in time it’s going to be up to Flacco to give us some insight and who knows what he has left.  

In July, Mims, Crowder, Perriman, V Smith, Herndon, Griffin, and Bell seemed passable, certainly better than last year.  

SAR I

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8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

We have no TEs at all, no rbs, one really  good olinman, a QB the fan base wants to run out of town.  They better hope mims turns out really good.

Unless Mims is the second coming of Jerry Rice, I’m sure even he would be getting a fair amount of sh*t right now. I do think his presence would have made a big difference though and ultimately should be one of the main differentiators for this offense’s production. Because at that point you’re pretty much out of excuses. 

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This offense is light years away from being a competent, competitive NFL offense.   The injuries are overblown to a certain degree, it’s not like there are several pro bowl or all pro players missing time on offense.   Mims is the only guy that I think would be making somewhat of a difference.   There are a couple pieces here but it’s essentially starting from scratch again in 2021.    

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If JD believed in Sam (or was even unsure about him), he would've started setting him up this year. JD has made his decision not to throw good money after bad. He's already incorporated sucking this year into his plan. Next step, new QB in draft.

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Douglas is clearing the way for a new coach for 2021. A total tear down job of this team. An organizational enema...and one that has been truly needed, whether or not the fan base wants to accept that. We weren’t close to competing by re-signing Robbie and Jamal. 

McGovern is a good versatile center so that was his “big” signing. Fant who is doing well can also be gone after this year, the way his contract is setup.

Perriman will be gone, didn’t want to sign Robbie long term, Bell is done after this year. We will not only have a war chest of picks, but cap space, and empty positions to fill.

Jamal was traded away when contract talks came up, didn’t sign any corners or edge rushers worth a damn, didn’t even sniff at a trade, ignored Clowney who would have come here on a 1 year deal and we had the $ for it.

There’s a 50/50 shot Sam is back or traded. This is the definition of a tear down, not even in a rebuild.

I think this is all getting lost on a lot of fans...Douglas CLEARLY was punting on this year, and his absolute best case scenario was keeping Sam upright enough to let the next coach say yay or nay on him.

Douglas just Idzik’d Gase and most of the fans were too blind to see it. Look at this roster lol. 

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5 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

We could try trading for an All Pro safety. We do have couple extra first rounders. 

Make all the comments you want about Adams but there is no denying the defense was better with him. McDougall and Maye suck.

It's amazing to me how much he was hated. I know he was an ass on his way out but I have a lot of friends that root for other teams and all of them have said he was an elite player the Jets should never have let walk. 

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8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

O-Line: not as horrible as some think it is.  Coverage sacks, Sam holding the ball too long, and flat out missing guys who are wide open have skewed the opinion.  Becton is looking very promising, Lewis has been serviceable, McGovern has been eh...I’d like to see him improve, but I’d be willing to bet that Greg Van Roten’s play has something to do with it, as he has, admittedly, been atrocious.  Centers who have to compensate for a very bad Guard typically struggle more than they would if they didn’t have to do that.  Fant has been somewhat of a pleasant surprise, only giving up one sack and grading out well.  Overall, I’d give Cameron Clark some time at G, see how he does, throw money at Thuney in FA, and then build up some depth.

WR:  this is the big one.  Perriman, unfortunately, cannot stay healthy.  He’ll be gone.  Jeff Smith looked very good in his debut.   Crowder is a keeper.  Mims is TBD; hopefully he stays healthy for the rest of the year and looks like the guy we hope can be.  Berrios is a back up slot guy.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I’d keep him for ST purposes at the very least.  Beyond that it’s ugly.  Signing JuJu or Allen Robinson and drafting someone should be a high priority.  A scheme with play calling that actually gets these guys open would also help a ton.

TE: Herndon and Griffen need to step it up big time, but, once again, this scheme and play calling is so f*cking bad it’s hard to get a clear read on them.  Mike Gesicki was non-existent under Gase.  Now he’s flourishing.  I think a guy like Herndon would thrive in a Daboll or Roman system. 

RB:  I’m a firm believer that Perine, if used properly (scheme and play calling again), will carve out a Bilal Powell like career.  Gore is washed.  Bell always was a bad fit here, he might be washed too.  Long story short, yeah, we need some fresh blood here.

QB:  I have said enough about that.

Honestly, I know it seems grim, but if Joe Douglas hires a coach that actually knows how to utilize players to their maximum potential, I think we’ll be just fine with some very do-able additions.  

i tend to agree with much of this.  i don't think the oline players are that bad and, as you say they need to see what clark can bring.  the issue is they just aren't playing as a unit.  the same five haven't played all 4 games yet.  fant went out for a game or two and now becton is out for a time.  it's hard to build a team without the players not being present.  the same can be said of the wrs.  the top guys, perriman and mims, have been injured and crowder missed a couple of games.  these guys need to get on the field and develop some chemistry with darnold.  imo the biggest disappointment has been the te position.  both griffen and herndon have displayed some good pass catching ability but they're certainly not showing it right now.  in fairness to griffen he's coming off of surgery.  herndon? who knows.

it all starts with line play.  the oline can help the passing and the running.  and if the offense can move the chains reliably it will do wonders for the defense if only by giving them longer fields to defend.

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