Dueling Agendas

[BettyBoop]

The modus operandi of the Johnsons is to arrange shotgun marriages between head coach and GM.  This has occurred virtually every year since they've owned the team and it is the primary reason for the lack of success.  And this year is no different.  Joe Douglas, with his six year contract, has clearly taken a long position on rebuilding this team.  He signed one year stop gap free agents, many of whom have not panned out, and traded the best player on the team for future draft picks.  One can only assume that Douglas punted on this season when he didn't sign a decent corner (e.g., Logan Ryan) after the Adams trade.  On the other hand, poor Adam's Gaze, is desperately trying to hold on to his job despite the overwhelming (underwhelming?) lack of talent.  To make matter worse, Gaze has made the lack of talent even worse by utterly destroying the resources he does have (e.g., Darnold, Herndon, Perine).  Worse yet, he let his stud rookie get into a game when he was hurt.  That alone is a fireable offense. 

There is no scenario under which this structure could succeed.  So another season down the tubes due to the wacky and completely incompetent "leadership" from the top.

[Larz]

The gm doesn’t hire the coach in many nfl organizations 

the problem is the owners themselves 

No top tier candidates want anything to do with them 

[FidelioJet]

11 minutes ago, Larz said:

The gm doesn’t hire the coach in many nfl organizations 

the problem is the owners themselves 

No top tier candidates want anything to do with them 

I don't buy this.  

I agree the problem is ultimately the owners but not because top tier candidates won't come here.  but because they continue to make the wrong choices.

After we drafted Darnold there were top tier candidates all interested in the job, CJ handled it like a moron - forcing DC's on HC's and ultimately allowed a retired QB to choose their HC.

[#27TheDominator]

How has Gase ruined Herndon? 

[BettyBoop]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

How has Gase ruined Herndon? 

Seriously?  Have you seen Herndon do anything this year???  Gaze has declared Herndon to be a unicorn yet can't figure out how to get him involved in the offense.

Herndon will be another post-Gaze star in the NFL, only not with the Jets.

 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, BettyBoop said:

Seriously?  Have you seen Herndon do anything this year???  Gaze has declared Herndon to be a unicorn yet can't figure out how to get him involved in the offense.

Herndon will be another post-Gaze star in the NFL, only not with the Jets.

 

I honesty doubt it.

Herdon doesn't get enough separation and drops way too many balls.

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

How has Gase ruined Herndon? 

By playing him? 

[shawn306]

The Johnsons are a prime reason why the Jets need a "President of football opeations" 

Someone who handles all football decisions. Coach, GM anything related to football.

The only things the Johnsons should be involved in when it comes to the Jets is counting money.

[#27TheDominator]

 

32 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

Seriously?  Have you seen Herndon do anything this year???  Gaze has declared Herndon to be a unicorn yet can't figure out how to get him involved in the offense.

Herndon will be another post-Gaze star in the NFL, only not with the Jets.

 

Saying Gase ruined Herndon is like saying removing the brominated vegetable oil ruined Mountain Dew.

[BettyBoop]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Saying Gase ruined Herndon is like saying removing the brominated vegetable oil ruined Mountain Dew.

It's pretty simple.  Look at Herndon pre-Gaze and during Gaze and you see two completely different players.  Seems pretty straight forward to me.

[ChuckkieB]

These owners have no overall vision or agenda, and therefore, whoever the GM and HC are, they are usually flying by the seat of their pants with no direction, and based on the reporting structure, never aligned or accountable to one another.  It's a big cluster poop that has been stuck on repeat for the better part of 20 years.

[ChuckkieB]

4 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

It's pretty simple.  Look at Herndon pre-Gaze and during Gaze and you see two completely different players.  Seems pretty straight forward to me.

I think Hendon has already proven that he is is own worst enemy, but there is no doubt that a terrible coach can be a massive demotivating factor to a player, especially one who has already proven to be distracted.

[JoJoTownsell1]

41 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

How has Gase ruined Herndon? 

Adam Gase has been a Head Coach for 5 years. List the young offensive players that have had breakout years with him. 

 

[rangerous]

44 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

Seriously?  Have you seen Herndon do anything this year???  Gaze has declared Herndon to be a unicorn yet can't figure out how to get him involved in the offense.

Herndon will be another post-Gaze star in the NFL, only not with the Jets.

 

just what is gase supposed to say about a player?  should he say herndon is slow slug who can't catch a cold?  gase came in thinking herndon was going to be the player he showed during his rookie year.  he came into camp out of shape and spent most of his time injured.  now this season he's taken a further step back.  the bottom line herndon has to make the commitment to being the best he can be.

[jetscrazey]

Douglas punted on this year.  He may not admit it but that's what he did.

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

It's pretty simple.  Look at Herndon pre-Gaze and during Gaze and you see two completely different players.  Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Not quite.

Pre-injury, Pre-Gase.

Post injury, With Gase.

Two variables.  Not just one.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Douglas punted on this year.  He may not admit it but that's what he did.

Counter Argument:

1. He expected Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Smith to not all get injured and miss so much time.

2. He expected Bell to do....something, anything.

3. He expected Gase, the "offensive Genius", and Darnold, the "Elite Franchise QB" to improve.  Neither have.

4. He expected Greg Williams to maintain an average Defense without Adams.

5. He expected Mosely to play, not opt out.

All of the above were reasonable expectations from JD.  None have happened.  The entire WR room looks like a MASH unit.  Bell is absentee.  Mosely is an absentee.  Gase and Darnold are nighmarishly bad at their jobs, amongst the worst in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, JD has to own this failure of a year, it's his team.  But I don't think for a second he came into 2020 with "tank (for Trevor?)" as his actual plan.  I think he planned all along to compete this year.

[joewilly12]

The Johnson brothers are not football minded people I bet neither played a down of football or watched football prior to owning the NY Jets, they may not even watch today. It's all about the money for them. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't buy this.

oh, okay

[#27TheDominator]

33 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Adam Gase has been a Head Coach for 5 years. List the young offensive players that have had breakout years with him. 

 

Not liking Herndon means I am trumpeting Gase as a savant for offense?  Herndon has been in the league for 3 years.  On Thursday night, Jeff Smith was within one yard of Herndon's career high.  If Jeff Smith doesn't "breakout" in 2021, will that mean that Harbaugh, or whoever our coach is, "ruined" him? 

[JoJoTownsell1]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Not liking Herndon means I am trumpeting Gase as a savant for offense?  Herndon has been in the league for 3 years.  On Thursday night, Jeff Smith was within one yard of Herndon's career high.  If Jeff Smith doesn't "breakout" in 2021, will that mean that Harbaugh, or whoever our coach is, "ruined" him? 

Davante Parker was in the league for 4 years, 3 of those years under Gase, where he did nothing. 
Gase Left.

Parker proceeded to up 1200 yards the following year and is on pace for 1100 yards this year. 

That doesn't mean Herndon is good, it just means he has a head coach/OC that don't have a long history of developing players. 

[jetscrazey]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Counter Argument:

1. He expected Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Smith to not all get injured and miss so much time.

2. He expected Bell to do....something, anything.

3. He expected Gase, the "offensive Genius", and Darnold, the "Elite Franchise QB" to improve.  Neither have.

4. He expected Greg Williams to maintain an average Defense without Adams.

5. He expected Mosely to play, not opt out.

All of the above were reasonable expectations from JD.  None have happened.  The entire WR room looks like a MASH unit.  Bell is absentee.  Mosely is an absentee.  Gase and Darnold are nighmarishly bad at their jobs, amongst the worst in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, JD has to own this failure of a year, it's his team.  But I don't think for a second he came into 2020 with "tank (for Trevor?)" as his actual plan.  I think he planned all along to compete this year.

He's not tanking for Trevor, but he was never trying to compete for a wild card this year either.  It's a punt.  He signed unimpressive players like Perriman on a 1 year deal (a 1st round pick 5 years ago who's now been cast off of 3 teams) instead of getting a proven starter.  He was content to go into the season with zero bona fide edge rushers.  He signed Pierre Desir on 1 year deal, a marginal CB in his 6th year on his 5th team, instead of a better player.

It's obvious Douglas was content to be well below .500 this year and accrue picks and cap space for next season.  With the o-line more settled now, he needs to spend an offseason working on the skill positions.  If Douglas was serious about competing this year he would've signed a pass rusher, a veteran WR, or Logan Ryan.  This will definitely factor into his Darnold evaluation.  He probably knows deep down he's set Sam up to fail.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Davante Parker was in the league for 4 years, 3 of those years under Gase, where he did nothing. 
Gase Left.

Parker proceeded to up 1200 yards the following year and is on pace for 1100 yards this year. 

That doesn't mean Herndon is good, it just means he has a head coach/OC that don't have a long history of developing players. 

Where did I disagree?  I never liked the hire.  It doesn't change the fact that a coaching change is unlikely to make Herndon a player.  Davante Parker's success does not in any way indicate that Herndon was "ruined." 

[BettyBoop]

5 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Adam Gase has been a Head Coach for 5 years. List the young offensive players that have had breakout years with him. 

 

I can list the defensive opponents who have had breadkout games.

[JTJet]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Counter Argument:

1. He expected Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Smith to not all get injured and miss so much time.

2. He expected Bell to do....something, anything.

3. He expected Gase, the "offensive Genius", and Darnold, the "Elite Franchise QB" to improve.  Neither have.

4. He expected Greg Williams to maintain an average Defense without Adams.

5. He expected Mosely to play, not opt out.

All of the above were reasonable expectations from JD.  None have happened.  The entire WR room looks like a MASH unit.  Bell is absentee.  Mosely is an absentee.  Gase and Darnold are nighmarishly bad at their jobs, amongst the worst in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, JD has to own this failure of a year, it's his team.  But I don't think for a second he came into 2020 with "tank (for Trevor?)" as his actual plan.  I think he planned all along to compete this year.

 

4 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

He's not tanking for Trevor, but he was never trying to compete for a wild card this year either.  It's a punt.  He signed unimpressive players like Perriman on a 1 year deal (a 1st round pick 5 years ago who's now been cast off of 3 teams) instead of getting a proven starter.  He was content to go into the season with zero bona fide edge rushers.  He signed Pierre Desir on 1 year deal, a marginal CB in his 6th year on his 5th team, instead of a better player.

It's obvious Douglas was content to be well below .500 this year and accrue picks and cap space for next season.  With the o-line more settled now, he needs to spend an offseason working on the skill positions.  If Douglas was serious about competing this year he would've signed a pass rusher, a veteran WR, or Logan Ryan.  This will definitely factor into his Darnold evaluation.  He probably knows deep down he's set Sam up to fail.

I think you are both right actually. 

It defies logic that any GM would willingly go into their first full season with a plan to punt on the season. If you think this, you dont understand how high level business executives think, that I can assure you. Punting on the season or willfully designing the roster in a way that would/could directly lead to his firing, would be ineptitude on a galactic level. 

With that being said, if you look at the moves and especially all the one year contracts and read the tea leaves so to speak, its somewhat easy to figure out that he was doing the only thing he could to flip the fortunes of the organization, and by this I mean setting up draft capital. You can probably bet virtually all of those 1 year contracts will be gone next year, and highly unlikely he brings in an equal number of free agents, thus flipping us into an organization that can get comp picks annually as well. 

He most likely had reasonable expectations along with the fandom that half the roster wouldnt end up injured, nobody can predict that but it ultimately falls on his shoulders now. 

[Charlie Brown]

6 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

The modus operandi of the Johnsons is to arrange shotgun marriages between head coach and GM.  This has occurred virtually every year since they've owned the team and it is the primary reason for the lack of success.  And this year is no different.  Joe Douglas, with his six year contract, has clearly taken a long position on rebuilding this team.  He signed one year stop gap free agents, many of whom have not panned out, and traded the best player on the team for future draft picks.  One can only assume that Douglas punted on this season when he didn't sign a decent corner (e.g., Logan Ryan) after the Adams trade.  On the other hand, poor Adam's Gaze, is desperately trying to hold on to his job despite the overwhelming (underwhelming?) lack of talent.  To make matter worse, Gaze has made the lack of talent even worse by utterly destroying the resources he does have (e.g., Darnold, Herndon, Perine).  Worse yet, he let his stud rookie get into a game when he was hurt.  That alone is a fireable offense. 

There is no scenario under which this structure could succeed.  So another season down the tubes due to the wacky and completely incompetent "leadership" from the top.

This is one of the best post my friend!

I wish I wrote it!

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Where did I disagree?  I never liked the hire.  It doesn't change the fact that a coaching change is unlikely to make Herndon a player.  Davante Parker's success does not in any way indicate that Herndon was "ruined." 

When there is an extensive track record of players with talent reaching their potential once they are away from Gase and his scheme, there is a certain degree of benefit that needs to be given to the player.  In most cases I would agree with you, however, the list of aforementioned players is a CVS receipt in length so I will give Herndon a chance under someone like Roman, Daboll, etc.

[Charlie Brown]

6 hours ago, shawn306 said:

The Johnsons are a prime reason why the Jets need a "President of football opeations" 

Someone who handles all football decisions. Coach, GM anything related to football.

The only things the Johnsons should be involved in when it comes to the Jets is counting money.

I for one wanted Mike Shannahan and when the Jets got Darnold he was interested!

But the Johnsons said essentially we don't "need" him, because their football acumen was as good as his..

And now we have a wounded QB and the worst team in the NFL!  

[Greenbloodblitz]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Counter Argument:

1. He expected Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Smith to not all get injured and miss so much time.

2. He expected Bell to do....something, anything.

3. He expected Gase, the "offensive Genius", and Darnold, the "Elite Franchise QB" to improve.  Neither have.

4. He expected Greg Williams to maintain an average Defense without Adams.

5. He expected Mosely to play, not opt out.

All of the above were reasonable expectations from JD.  None have happened.  The entire WR room looks like a MASH unit.  Bell is absentee.  Mosely is an absentee.  Gase and Darnold are nighmarishly bad at their jobs, amongst the worst in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, JD has to own this failure of a year, it's his team.  But I don't think for a second he came into 2020 with "tank (for Trevor?)" as his actual plan.  I think he planned all along to compete this year.

 Thank you! I agree with just about everything you said. Before Camp started we had about 15 wide receivers. The other night we started the third wide receiver, two practice squad guys, and a guy that we signed cuz he lives in the area. it's ridiculous.

 I don't agree with Gase and Darnold being bad at their job. Only because the plan is foiled and they have nothing to work with. Same for Greg Williams who could have survived and done a decent job with Mosley or Adams. But you take out both and now you got nothing.

 Unfortunately I think the fans and the media just want to point the finger and blame somebody, anybody, doesn't matter who.

 Also do you think the pandemic, the BLM movement, and the nasty crap Jamal Adams said about the owners and coaches helped anything in the locker room?

Realistically I would say that I'm sure they didn't think they were winning the Superbowl this year, but they also weren't tanking for Trevor!

JD made a lot of moves that were very good for this team. Adam Gase was pissed 3 days into camp at practice he couldn't get the projected starters on the field and they never have been since due to injuries.

I think the plan was to evaluate the free agents we brought in and see how they fit in with the team with the core players that were drafted that they were counting on Gase' staff to coach up. It didn't work out that way LOL.

 I'm not trying to make excuses, but you have injuries, the pandemic, riots, no preseason, no fans in the stands etc etc.

How would anybody else feel about getting up in front of the television audience and having a press conference about why everything isn't going so great?

 

[Greenbloodblitz]

 Here's a follow-up to my above post. It's a true story.

About 20 years ago my bass player was getting married he was a very close friend of mine. I caught a buzz the night before his wedding and was excited for him I wanted to look good so I went to the tanning salon.

I said I live on an island and I've been on the beach my whole life, give me the best thing you got Turn It Up On full! I fried myself red like a lobster.

Then I went home and having long hair at the time and being a singer in a rock band I decided I was going to give myself some highlights I somehow managed to only dye half of my head blond. Not in Vogue at the time I might add.

I woke up the next day to go to the wedding and my girlfriend was pulling girlfriend type crap, so we got in an argument.

On the way to the wedding I actually got a flat and now I'm kneeling down in mud in my suit changing the tire. Wait it gets better!

So we get to the wedding a few minutes late I order a vodka and cranberry and as I turn around from the bar with my first drink in my hand my girlfriend bumps into me and Spills it all over me. Now I'm ready to kill somebody. Remember I'm the lead singer in the band so everybody is coming up to me to say hello and I'm trying to put my head down and not be noticed.

I sit down at the designated table and we realize we left the card with the money at home.

Okay so now I'm sunburn, I have half yellow hair, muddy knees, vodka and cranberry all over my suit and I'm soaking wet. I  don't have the gift with the money and of course my girlfriend is still angry and uncooperative from the argument we had 3 months ago on Tuesday.

 This reminds me of the New York Jets!

 Welcome to loser land, it is totally possible to have worse than bad luck LMFAO!

[Losmeister]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

All of the above were reasonable expectations from JD.  None have happened. 

yup

[Embrace the Suck]

8 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

Seriously?  Have you seen Herndon do anything this year???  Gaze has declared Herndon to be a unicorn yet can't figure out how to get him involved in the offense.

Herndon will be another post-Gaze star in the NFL, only not with the Jets.

 

Maybe that has to do with Herndon getting himself suspended and missing time. Or the multiple injuries that have kept him from playing. The guy wasn't exactly established to begin with. I saw him drop a pass not so long ago so there's that.

[SOJ]

6 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

He's not tanking for Trevor, but he was never trying to compete for a wild card this year either.  It's a punt.  He signed unimpressive players like Perriman on a 1 year deal (a 1st round pick 5 years ago who's now been cast off of 3 teams) instead of getting a proven starter.  He was content to go into the season with zero bona fide edge rushers.  He signed Pierre Desir on 1 year deal, a marginal CB in his 6th year on his 5th team, instead of a better player.

It's obvious Douglas was content to be well below .500 this year and accrue picks and cap space for next season.  With the o-line more settled now, he needs to spend an offseason working on the skill positions.  If Douglas was serious about competing this year he would've signed a pass rusher, a veteran WR, or Logan Ryan.  This will definitely factor into his Darnold evaluation.  He probably knows deep down he's set Sam up to fail.

A OL settled, are you serious? Its been a disaster.  six sacks, 10 hits, 2.? run last game... I haven't checked the rankings but I would be shocked if this team was last in every O stat and the while Fant has passed blocked well - not great - his run blocking  sucks.  the Rookie is the real deal...just needs good OL coachin and a HC that knows what the F he is doing.  Van has been a turnstile, Center has been bad and lewis is below average.   So lets pull in the rains a bit and re-think that comment ok. 

[Beerfish]

9 hours ago, Larz said:

The gm doesn’t hire the coach in many nfl organizations 

the problem is the owners themselves 

No top tier candidates want anything to do with them 

Two top tier guys were there for the taking and the owners rejected them so i disagree with this.

[FidelioJet]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Counter Argument:

1. He expected Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Smith to not all get injured and miss so much time.

2. He expected Bell to do....something, anything.

3. He expected Gase, the "offensive Genius", and Darnold, the "Elite Franchise QB" to improve.  Neither have.

4. He expected Greg Williams to maintain an average Defense without Adams.

5. He expected Mosely to play, not opt out.

All of the above were reasonable expectations from JD.  None have happened.  The entire WR room looks like a MASH unit.  Bell is absentee.  Mosely is an absentee.  Gase and Darnold are nighmarishly bad at their jobs, amongst the worst in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, JD has to own this failure of a year, it's his team.  But I don't think for a second he came into 2020 with "tank (for Trevor?)" as his actual plan.  I think he planned all along to compete this year.

Perriman healthy is still not good.  You don't let Robby for a player with half his production and expect anything from him

Smith is a JAG

Crowder's playing

Mims - counting on any rookie to perform at a high level is poor management.

Gase - thinking he was going to all of a sudden get batter is poor management

Greg Williams - Trading away your the teams' best and only good player should be expected to be massive decline in overall production.  Add in the corners he signed that are utter failures.

Mosley - He's lucky more vets didn't opt-out with this garbage he's put out there.  In fact, if they move to a 12 games season with a bubble - they'll have to allow people to opt-out and my money says the Jets will lead the league in opt-outs.  By far.

I really do hope he knew he was tanking because if he didn't we're in a lot more trouble than we are now.