Which was a worse move-Drafting Barkley or trading up for Darnold?

[jcass10]

Its a bit of a toss up for me. The logic behind the Jets move was sound. They packaged picks to get a franchise QB, the most important position in the game. I cant fault them too much for that. It remains to be seen if its going to work out (but its looking like it wont). Its tough to part with draft picks, but the one time its OK, is when its for a franchise QB

The Giants took a super unvaluable position with an extremely valuable pick. It was not a logical move from my perspective. Giants presumably could have traded back, or taken Quentin Nelson. Both would probably have them in a better position than they currently are. Having said that, they didnt trade up for him, so the cost wasnt as crippling.

I thought the Jets going for Darnold made more sense, but probably hurt the team more. 

 

[GreekJet]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Tua can’t beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick while Herbert is tossing 70 yard TD’s to practice squad fodder.

Tua is coming off a serious injury and the dolphins are actually being smart with him. Herbert still has a lot to prove-defenses will adjust to him. 

[T0mShane]

The guys who drafted Ezekiel Elliott, Leonard Fournette, and Saquon Barkley would all like do-overs.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, jcass10 said:

The Giants took a super unvaluable position with an extremely valuable pick.

So glad the Jets never do sh*t like this

[GreekJet]

2 minutes ago, jcass10 said:

Its a bit of a toss up for me. The logic behind the Jets move was sound. They packaged picks to get a franchise QB, the most important position in the game. I cant fault them too much for that. It remains to be seen if its going to work out (but its looking like it wont). Its tough to part with draft picks, but the one time its OK, is when its for a franchise QB

The Giants took a super unvaluable position with an extremely valuable pick. It was not a logical move from my perspective. Giants presumably could have traded back, or taken Quentin Nelson. Both would probably have them in a better position than they currently are. Having said that, they didnt trade up for him, so the cost wasnt as crippling.

I thought the Jets going for Darnold made more sense, but probably hurt the team more. 

 

This is where I am at. Giants also were wrong in their evaluation of Eli which set them back years. 

[section314]

6 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Darnold has won more games for the Jets than Barkley has for blue. 

And he's lost far more for the Jets, too.? Who do you think D coordinators worry more about when they game plan, Barkley or Darnold? Hint, he doesn't wear #14.

[Untouchable]

3 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Tua is coming off a serious injury and the dolphins are actually being smart with him. Herbert still has a lot to prove-defenses will adjust to him. 

That’s one of the biggest problems with Tua...when isn’t he banged up? I never would’ve drafted a 6’0, left handed QB with major injury concerns in the Top 5.

Meanwhile, Herbert looks like he’s going to be what a lot of people thought Mariota would be. In his 4th career start, he torched the piss out of a highly talented Bucs defense while throwing to dudes like Jalen Guyton.

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, Barkus said:

Darnold cost 3 2nd round picks. So that was the worse move. 

Another way to look at it is 2 seconds and Sheldon, who we weren't keeping anyway. I'll still stand by the decision to move up and get our guy, we just failed in every aspect after that trade.

[GreekJet]

10 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Another way to look at it is 2 seconds and Sheldon, who we weren't keeping anyway. I'll still stand by the decision to move up and get our guy, we just failed in every aspect after that trade.

Not buying that logic. They owned a 2nd rounder which is what’s important. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, GreekJet said:

And what has he done for the Giants? What is their record with him?

They have wasted three years of his prime. Now they have to decide whether or not to pay him.  

Hey, got a little news flash for you. Football is a team game. 

[Skeet Ulrich]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Tua can’t beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick while Herbert is tossing 70 yard TD’s to practice squad fodder.

Tua's not cleared for contact yet - he'll have no trouble beating out Fitzmagic, who sucks.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, section314 said:

At the time, they were both good moves. Most people knew that the Giants didn't love any of the QB's, and that since Eli was still there Barkley was going to be the pick. Jets trading up meant they would get 1 of their 2 top rated QB,s. It fit both teams. To date, it's obvious who the better player has been, it's not even close.

It's not you; this fairytale keeps getting repeated as though it was fact rather than just the way it ended up. 

The assumption, without any real evidence or testimony, was that their top 3 was (in this order): Darnold - Mayfield - Rosen, plus the further assumption is Maccagnan "knew" at worst that one of the top 2 would be there (i.e. Cleveland wouldn't touch Rosen, and the Giants wouldn't touch any QB).

Except Maccagnan's own words reveal the fairytale as false. When the Giants took Barkley he claims, with no one refuting it, the first thing he said was his omg Darnold fell to us to Heimerdinger; with the next thing said, to CJ and Bowles, "Hey, this is not what we expected. I'm going to draft Sam Darnold here. You guys OK with that?" He said that after the Barkley pick, not after the Mayfield pick. It wasn't, "OMG Cleveland didn't take Darnold; that means he's falling to us." Because for all he knew, the Giants allegedly not wanting Darnold was just a smokescreen meant to dissuade Cleveland from passing on him, or that any of at least 4 teams (Denver, Buffalo, Arizona, Miami) were going to leapfrog us and trade up with the Giants to take Darnold at #2. All this was plenty of admissions there were 3 QBs - not 2 - that they'd be happy with, and that's why he never even inquired about moving up higher than #3. 

What's hardest to take about it is that Buffalo ended up with a demonstrably better QB at #7, and before throwing three 2nd rounders to Indianapolis our original pick was at #6. 

[Beerfish]

The New York Jets did not trade up for Sam Darnold.  The fable that perpetuates a persons agenda or narrative.

If you want to post a slag darnold scenario then say what is worse, drafting barkely or the jets picking darnold over josh allen.

[UntouchableCrew]

I think drafting Barkley is still the worse move. There was logic in drafting Darnold even if we ruined him/he didn't pan out. Taking a RB 2 overall is always stupid.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

If you’re going to pass on a QB when you need a QB, the guy you select better be a stud. And Barkley is. In hindsight the call was the select Lamar. But no one thought that he was worth a top 5 pick at the time. 

Even if you want to rule out Jackson at # 2 overall because of just how far back in the 1st round he went (and hindsight being 20/20), the proper move for the Giants would have been to trade back to a QB-needy team.  Someone, including the Jets, would have moved up to 2 if it meant getting the QB they valued most there.  They could have dropped down to 3, added a 3rd rounder (we no longer had a 2nd rounder) + perhaps a 3rd in the next year's draft, and still taken Barkley.  OR they could have moved down again to a team who was targeting Allen.  

Taking a RB # 2 overall is never a smart move.  The moment they took him, he was already the # 4 highest paid RB in the league based on his slotted rookie contract.  That should tell you everything you know about the economics of the position.  Barkley has been awesome but it hasn't made a lick of difference for that franchise.  When he went down with his season-ending injury (also a big reason not to invest heavily in a RB in the first place), they merely went from "sucking" to "sucking hard and being completely unwatchable".  

They could have netted a huge package of picks dropping from # 2 to help fix their many other issues.  

[slimjasi]

As I wrote at the time, I would basically never take a running back at #2 overall. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I haven't written Darnold off yet. Give him weapons and a competent HC before I judge.

The same thing was said about Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith.  Sigh.  Jets fans never learn....

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The same thing was said about Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith.  Sigh.  Jets fans never learn....

I'll give credit to Arizona. They took a QB top 10 and decided right away this isn't the guy we thought he was, he'll never be what we need him to be, and let's trade him for the best we can get and not prolong the mistake by betting 2, 3, 4 more seasons on this QB. We gloss over it in hindsight, but that took some major stones.

How many times did we hear in 2017 that we couldn't take a QB that year because we'd just drafted Hackenberg. That no team - certainly no team acting shrewdly, on its way to future success - would ever draft a QB in the top 10 right after drafting a QB in round 2.

Yeah well Arizona drafted QBs in the top 10 in back-to-back seasons. They're a team with a legitimate NFL offense and serious hope for the near and distant future because they didn't pass up a fresh start, instead of being winless and lamenting about their sunk cost on top of worrying about how good or great Rosen might be for another team.

With Rosen they had the same unanswered questions we've had here for years: what if he had better coaching, better protection, another receiver weapon or two, a RB who wasn't a has-been, another year of maturing since he was just 21, etc. And despite all those legitimate disadvantages, they didn't rationalize how Rosen's rookie numbers - while certainly bad - weren't close to all-time bad (they weren't as bad as Sanchez's despite Sanchez being in a far, far cushier situation). Rosen was still far more promising than Hackenberg, who - forget about starting - couldn't even earn the #3 QB job ahead of Bryce Petty (let alone the #2 job over Geno Smith) the year before they passed up on Mahomes/Watson. 

Props to Arizona -- at the time, that took a huge pair of balls. It only seems uncontroversial now because we have the benefit of hindsight that Rosen never became anything with another team.

[peebag]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

They are not better than Barkley. Barkley is doing what he does without an OL. The Giants OL is possibly worse than the Jets right now and Anderson is looking very ordinary

He's doing what he does now from the sidelines.

[Philc1]

The Jets and giants aren’t losing because of Darnold and Barkley.  They are losing because both teams have bad rosters and even worse head coaches 

[Philc1]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The same thing was said about Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith.  Sigh.  Jets fans never learn....

Sanchez and Smith both played on better rosters and for a better head coach

[Jetty]

If we passed on the Darnold trade...Macags draft numerous busts with our picks and gets fired after the season. We bring in a new GM who selects the next coach.

Our record is a little worst so we draft Nic Bosa instead of Quinnen Williams in the 1st and then Drew Lock in the 2nd with Matt Rhule as coach.

Jets fans smile.

 

[Guilhermezmc]

Drafting Nathan Shappherd after Darnold was the worse move

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

ahem...

No one trustworthy  

[More Cowbell]

18 minutes ago, peebag said:

He's doing what he does now from the sidelines.

Thank you Mr Moto. 

[BigRy56]

The Barkley pick is worse. Darnold was the right pick 100% of the time and was grossly mishandled his entire stay here. He will go be successful on another team if we pick #1 and won’t be viewed as a bust 

[jgb]

  

3 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Should have traded down and taken the Jets package offered to the Colts. They could of had Nelson and Kamara. 

 

3 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Could have had Cook, Chubb, or Kamara in round 2. All better players than Barkley. 

Not without a time machine, lol. Except for the fact Cook and Kamara were drafted a year earlier, your point that Giants should've traded down is a good one. See below.

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Even if you want to rule out Jackson at # 2 overall because of just how far back in the 1st round he went (and hindsight being 20/20), the proper move for the Giants would have been to trade back to a QB-needy team.  Someone, including the Jets, would have moved up to 2 if it meant getting the QB they valued most there.  They could have dropped down to 3, added a 3rd rounder (we no longer had a 2nd rounder) + perhaps a 3rd in the next year's draft, and still taken Barkley.  OR they could have moved down again to a team who was targeting Allen.  

Taking a RB # 2 overall is never a smart move.  The moment they took him, he was already the # 4 highest paid RB in the league based on his slotted rookie contract.  That should tell you everything you know about the economics of the position.  Barkley has been awesome but it hasn't made a lick of difference for that franchise.  When he went down with his season-ending injury (also a big reason not to invest heavily in a RB in the first place), they merely went from "sucking" to "sucking hard and being completely unwatchable".  

They could have netted a huge package of picks dropping from # 2 to help fix their many other issues.  

You make a good point. Should've and could've traded back. Although I think it's pretty clear that Gettleman wasn't in love with Baker or Darnold (and perhaps Rosen also) which he was right about.  He should've traded back, but if you had to choose between those players right now, it's probably Barkley. Although I think Baker is in the act of redeeming himself as we speak.

[Losmeister]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

No one trustworthy  

touche...if you knew me, i could gain your trust....   this internet thing...   not my forte

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

touche...if you knew me, i could gain your trust....   this internet thing...   not my forte

 

[Losmeister]

17 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

more like

[Philc1]

34 minutes ago, jgb said:

  

 

Not without a time machine, lol. Except for the fact Cook and Kamara were drafted a year earlier, your point that Giants should've traded down is a good one. See below.

You make a good point. Should've and could've traded back. Although I think it's pretty clear that Gettleman wasn't in love with Baker or Darnold (and perhaps Rosen also) which he was right about.  He should've traded back, but if you had to choose between those players right now, it's probably Barkley. Although I think Baker is in the act of redeeming himself as we speak.

Baker’s running backs are redeeming him

[Philc1]

36 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

The Barkley pick is worse. Darnold was the right pick 100% of the time and was grossly mishandled his entire stay here. He will go be successful on another team if we pick #1 and won’t be viewed as a bust 

Daniel Jones hasn’t looked good this year.  For the sh tstorm Sam gets for not looking like John Elway throwing to streetbums Jones has been worse

[jetscrazey]

Trading up for Darnold was the right move.

The organizational failure to evaluate him and nurture his strengths after drafting him was the wrong move.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Baker’s running backs are redeeming him

Such a b.s. lazy argument.

Baker won OROY after coming in and turning around a team that lost like 20 straight games before his first start. He sucked under Kitchens -- a worse HC than Gase -- and is now playing well.

We'd be doing cartwheels if Darnold was doing half of what Mayfield is. Hell, Geno still has his defenders here ferchristsakes.

 

 

 

[JetsFanatic]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The same thing was said about Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith.  Sigh.  Jets fans never learn....

You are right, but just because they didn’t work out, doesn’t Darnold won’t. I am concerned over some of his tendencies, but he has shown enough that I would like to give him a legitimate opportunity.