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GreekJet

Which was a worse move-Drafting Barkley or trading up for Darnold?

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2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

You and me on the same page. I'm still waitin' for Geno to get some weaponz

Again, just because Geno was a stiff doesn’t mean Darnold is. 

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3 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You are right, but just because they didn’t work out, doesn’t Darnold won’t. I am concerned over some of his tendencies, but he has shown enough that I would like to give him a legitimate opportunity.

He has had a legitimate opportunity.  30 starts, to be precise.  That's plenty to see if a guy "has it" or not.

Josh Rosen only got 13 starts in Arizona before they moved on.  And the circumstances surrounding him were arguably about as bad as ours are right now.

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New York football is at an all-time-low. Neither was a bad move. Neither team supported their pick well. Both were talented prospects. 

You know it's bad when you pick right and your organization still can't make it work. 

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6 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You are right, but just because they didn’t work out, doesn’t Darnold won’t. I am concerned over some of his tendencies, but he has shown enough that I would like to give him a legitimate opportunity.

True, but the odds for Darnold "working out" considering what he has shown in 2+ seasons are extremely long.

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He has had a legitimate opportunity.  30 starts, to be precise.  That's plenty to see if a guy "has it" or not.

Josh Rosen only got 13 starts in Arizona before they moved on.  And the circumstances surrounding him were arguably about as bad as ours are right now.

It's not even a question if JD thinks Lawrence(or Fields or Lance for that matter) is a special prospect the Jets will not hesitate to draft a QB with their #1.

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Just now, Skeet Ulrich said:

It's not even a question if JD thinks Lawrence(or Fields or Lance for that matter) is a special prospect the Jets will not hesitate to draft a QB with their #1.

100 %.  If we're picking in the top 2 or 3, that pick has to be a QB.  

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1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

Again, just because Geno was a stiff doesn’t mean Darnold is. 

We can't know about Geno. He never had the weaponz. Just like we can't know about Hackenberg since we never saw him in an NFL game. 

A QB can still be evaluated with poor weapons and a bad offensive line. Fair or not. 

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'll give credit to Arizona. They took a QB top 10 and decided right away this isn't the guy we thought he was, he'll never be what we need him to be, and let's trade him for the best we can get and not prolong the mistake by betting 2, 3, 4 more seasons on this QB. We gloss over it in hindsight, but that took some major stones.

How many times did we hear in 2017 that we couldn't take a QB that year because we'd just drafted Hackenberg. That no team - certainly no team acting shrewdly, on its way to future success - would ever draft a QB in the top 10 right after drafting a QB in round 2.

Yeah well Arizona drafted QBs in the top 10 in back-to-back seasons. They're a team with a legitimate NFL offense and serious hope for the near and distant future because they didn't pass up a fresh start, instead of being winless and lamenting about their sunk cost on top of worrying about how good or great Rosen might be for another team.

With Rosen they had the same unanswered questions we've had here for years: what if he had better coaching, better protection, another receiver weapon or two, a RB who wasn't a has-been, another year of maturing since he was just 21, etc. And despite all those legitimate disadvantages, they didn't rationalize how Rosen's rookie numbers - while certainly bad - weren't close to all-time bad (they weren't as bad as Sanchez's despite Sanchez being in a far, far cushier situation). Rosen was still far more promising than Hackenberg, who - forget about starting - couldn't even earn the #3 QB job ahead of Bryce Petty (let alone the #2 job over Geno Smith) the year before they passed up on Mahomes/Watson. 

Props to Arizona -- at the time, that took a huge pair of balls. It only seems uncontroversial now because we have the benefit of hindsight that Rosen never became anything with another team.

You are giving them way too much credit. They hired Kingsbury to fix Rosen. In fact KK was hired before Kyler declared (was going to play baseball). 
 

Kliff Kingsbury convinced the organization to make that move. Give them credit for listening, but it was not a good process. 

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10 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

You are giving them way too much credit. They hired Kingsbury to fix Rosen. In fact KK was hired before Kyler declared (was going to play baseball). 
 

Kliff Kingsbury convinced the organization to make that move. Give them credit for listening, but it was not a good process. 

No I'm giving them the right credit. The same GM that drafted him is the same GM who traded him a year later.

There's no evidence they'd have simply stuck with Rosen if Kyler didn't declare. Maybe they trade down & draft someone else; maybe they sign Bridgewater and draft Drew Lock. 

Few teams are willing to admit a mistake like that. If they really believed in Rosen they'd have used that #1 overall pick to build around him. They didn't so they dumped him for a 2nd round pick.

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I am completely dumbfounded that we are talking about Sam being a bad pick ...at the time he was a great pick, unfortunately the way we moved forward and built around him is no fault to his own. To completely write off Sam right now is poor taste considering there is no guarantee that we will get the first overall pick and take Lawrence. From watching TNF we saw glimpses of greatness from Sam, imagine with a decent OL, WR's and a HC who has the backing of the entire roster what Darnold could do! 

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8 hours ago, Barkus said:

Darnold cost 3 2nd round picks. So that was the worse move. 

This is where things could become interesting for the Jets.

Let’s say the Jets end up drafting 2nd or 3rd this year.  Would Jets fans once again support trading up?  Would you trade say the 3rd overall pick, the Jets 1st round pick from Seattle in 2021, and other pick (or maybe two) like a 2nd rounder or the other 1st from Seattle in 2022?

Will the Jets yet again do what they did in trading up for a QB and empty the cupboard of draft picks that would support said QB?

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8 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I haven't written Darnold off yet. Give him weapons and a competent HC before I judge.

Unfortunately that will never happen with the Jets.

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The move for Darnold was about the only smart thing Mac did.  That pick would have been more expensive if it was known Darnold would be there.  The problem is everything else he and this franchise does that made the pick a waste.  We ruined the kid with our dumpster fire franchise. If Trevor Lawrence has a single person in his life who loves him they'd tell him not to come here

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Neither move looks particularly good today. Darnold looks like a failed draft pick in line with the likes of Mariota, Trubisky, etc and Barkley while a premiere talent hasn't produced up to his talent since his rookie year and will be due an extension soon. Taking a RB that high might make sense on a team ready to turn the corner, but not for a bottom feeder that needs to fill several holes.

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1 hour ago, Tezza said:

I am completely dumbfounded that we are talking about Sam being a bad pick ...at the time he was a great pick, unfortunately the way we moved forward and built around him is no fault to his own. To completely write off Sam right now is poor taste considering there is no guarantee that we will get the first overall pick and take Lawrence. From watching TNF we saw glimpses of greatness from Sam, imagine with a decent OL, WR's and a HC who has the backing of the entire roster what Darnold could do! 

Nah yo Sam = Leaf because he isn’t winning Super Bowls with trash WRs, trash OL and Gase botching the playcalling

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9 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Hindsight is always 20/20 but what are your thoughts? 
 

Both NY teams are in this position in large part because of poor decisions that night. 
 

At the time I liked the move to trade up for a QB and was really high on Rosen, Darnold, and Allen (didn’t like Baker).

The Barkley pick to me always made no sense and the Giants are incredibly fortunate Darnold didn’t work out here. 
 

Overall I will go with the Giants. The Darnold pick did much more long term damage to the franchise, but the Giants could have done so much more with that pick. Gettleman was right not to take Darnold, but the move was to trade down not take Barkley.
 

I also think Darnolds career may have turned out different in blue for the simple reason that he would have likely sat behind Eli for a while and I trust Shurmur far more than any coach Darnold had. 
 

Got to admit. The fact the Giants didn’t take Darnold was always a red flag to me. Obviously there was something in his tape they didn’t like and they were proven correct. 

WHAT?

Trading for Darnold was one of the only good things Mike M. did with draft picks.  If you don't have a franchise QB, you go and get one, and Darnold was thought of as a great prospect.

Not even close.

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I despise what Mike Maccagnan did to this organization but I am not critical of his decision to trade up to get the third pick or to use it on Sam Darnold.  The Jets absolutely had to have a QB and many highly regarded assessors of talent thought that Darnold was the best QB prospect that year and that he had an excellent chance to become a really good pro.  I am still not convinced that Darnold cannot  succeed in the NFL if he had a fighting chance.  Even the best QBs struggle when their offensive line is weak and they lack really good weapons as receivers.  I remember a few seasons ago when Aaron Rodgers wasn't performing too well for those reasons.  I'm sure if the Jets get the first pick, Douglas will probably use it on Trevor Lawrence and Sam Darnold will be history.  However, if Douglas decided to stay with Darnold, beefed up the OL and got some quality receivers either in the draft or FA, I would be OK with that, too-provided he gets Darnold a really good offensive-minded head coach.

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A lot of hate about my post, lol. That's alright, I can take it. I have buns of steel! 

Just to clarify, it's not my intention to be a board PIA or to change the flavor of the place, it's just fine the way it is; but it was getting tiresome when there was an interesting discussion going on only to find out the next day that it was split into 15 other places because a new thread started about the SAME THING every time someone farted. Don't mind me, fart away. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, whoever smelt it, dealt it. 

I still do think a merging a bunch of threads isn't an awful idea. I am a Lone Wolf in my opinion, but on I press into the vast wilderness, alone. Maybe we should ask Ray Lucas and Bart Scott to grade my feelings on the matter. 

So anyway, Saquon and Sam something something. I'm afraid to read the whole thread before another one starts up about Sam and Saquon instead. I have JDD (Jets Deficit Disorder) as it is. 

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12 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

They are not better than Barkley. Barkley is doing what he does without an OL. The Giants OL is possibly worse than the Jets right now and Anderson is looking very ordinary

What’s Barkley done?  
 

1300 yds, 1000 yds and now injured.  He’s good. He’s not great yet or "generational"

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26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What’s Barkley done?  
 

1300, 1000 and now injured.  He’s good. He’s not great yet 

If he was running behind Dallas's OL, he would probably have numbers as good as Elliot if not better. 

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9 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Barkley

The Giants passed on the likes of Darnold, Allen, Jackson, etc for a 230 lb RB who plays like he’s 180 and already has a busted knee.

They then proceeded to take a lesser QB prospect 1 year later who has 21 fumbles in 17 games.

Barkley may already be toast and I’ve never seen a QB with the severe ball security issues that Jones has.

Never seen Jamie Winston play I'm assuming.

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2 minutes ago, Justme123 said:

Never seen Jamie Winston play I'm assuming.

Winston is a turnover machine, no question. 
 

But his main issue is INT’s. He has 50 fumbles in 73 games.

Jones has 21 fumbles and 17 INT’s in 17 games.

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And what's the alternative had we not done the trade? Ya'll think Maccagnan was drafting Quenton Nelson lol? We would be watching Josh Rosen and have two 2nd round picks that either would have been cut or doing nothing.

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3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Winston is a turnover machine, no question. 
 

But his main issue is INT’s. He has 50 fumbles in 73 games.

Jones has 21 fumbles and 17 INT’s in 17 games.

Jones has taken a significant step back this year

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10 hours ago, freestater said:

Trick question. 

Taking Jamal Adams was worse.

family guy school GIF

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11 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I haven't written Darnold off yet. Give him weapons and a competent HC before I judge.

True, I wanted Baker first and foremost.  I then wanted Allen or Rosen.  I didn't want Darnold because of the poor history of USC QB's ie Sanchez.  However I am rooting for Darnold because he hasn't been given an opportunity to shine.  The Johnson brothers keep hiring "special" HC's and it is killing our team.

crank yankers | Tumblr

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5 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

This is where things could become interesting for the Jets.

Let’s say the Jets end up drafting 2nd or 3rd this year.  Would Jets fans once again support trading up?  Would you trade say the 3rd overall pick, the Jets 1st round pick from Seattle in 2021, and other pick (or maybe two) like a 2nd rounder or the other 1st from Seattle in 2022?

Will the Jets yet again do what they did in trading up for a QB and empty the cupboard of draft picks that would support said QB?

Fire that cross-eyed s.o.b HC, and trade the #1 pick for more picks and get 2 WRs and a RB in Rd one and two.  We neglected Offense for years, it's time to rectify that.  Edge rusher would also be a godsend too,  I wanted Allen over Williams.

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11 hours ago, jgb said:

If you’re going to pass on a QB when you need a QB, the guy you select better be a stud. And Barkley is. In hindsight the call was the select Lamar. But no one thought that he was worth a top 5 pick at the time. 

Not true. I did.

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3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

This is where things could become interesting for the Jets.

Let’s say the Jets end up drafting 2nd or 3rd this year.  Would Jets fans once again support trading up?  Would you trade say the 3rd overall pick, the Jets 1st round pick from Seattle in 2021, and other pick (or maybe two) like a 2nd rounder or the other 1st from Seattle in 2022?

Will the Jets yet again do what they did in trading up for a QB and empty the cupboard of draft picks that would support said QB?

Absolutely not. Would they do? Probably since I think it’s a stupid idea. 
We’re in no position to be trading up. 

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52 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

If he was running behind Dallas's OL, he would probably have numbers as good as Elliot if not better. 

Yeah and if Darnold was behind that OL, with those WRs? 

He’s not better than Elliot until he plays better than Elliot.  Saquan had games where he did nothing at PSU also.  CuMar never had a Dallas like OL, lots of RBs didnt.  
 

 

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6 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

It's not even a question if JD thinks Lawrence(or Fields or Lance for that matter) is a special prospect the Jets will not hesitate to draft a QB with their #1.

That is correct.  The whole key to the whole scenario is 'special'

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Brandon Tierney and Tiki Barber on the "Tiki and Tierney" radio show went off on the stupidity of anyone who would think to draft Trevor Lawrence because you think Sam Darnald is not good enough. They both were in agreement to simply cite the evidence of players like Alex Smith, Steve Young and Vinny Testeverde that once they had players around them or a real HC they thrived. Sam will be the same. In Sam Darnald's case he has to overcome a terrible, probably the worst HC in the NFL and definitely the least amount of talent. Sam is  younger than Burrow and Lawrence. You cant name a situation that is even close to how bad Sam' s is . Get a boatload of picks (if the Jets are bad enough for the #1 overall pick) and use all the high round draft capital to truly build a team around Sam Darnald 

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1 minute ago, Copernicus said:

Brandon Tierney and Tiki Barber on the "Tiki and Tierney" radio show went off on the stupidity of anyone who would think to draft Trevor Lawrence because you think Sam Darnald is not good enough. They both were in agreement to simply cite the evidence of players like Alex Smith, Steve Young and Vinny Testeverde that once they had players around them or a real HC they thrived. Sam will be the same. In Sam Darnald's case he has to overcome a terrible, probably the worst HC in the NFL and definitely the least amount of talent. Sam is  younger than Burrow and Lawrence. You cant name a situation that is even close to how bad Sam' s is . Get a boatload of picks (if the Jets are bad enough for the #1 overall pick) and use all the high round draft capital to truly build a team around Sam Darnald 

best case scenario long term is jets end up with Lawrence 

 

Sam has a similar career path to Drew Brees who was considered a bust in San Diego.  Sam plays well next year we trade him for picks and Lawrence becomes a hall of famer for us

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