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Dwayne Haskins benched


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3 hours ago, Maxta_p said:

Waaaaay to soon to call Darnold a bust. Lets surround him with an all pro offense, then make our decision. Id give him another 4-5 years honestly.

At least let’s see him with a coach who is not 

a) a Mannequin/Zombie

b) a lunatic whose eyes are bugging out in different directions, who gives the appearance of always being unprepared and who brought with him a 4 foot 11 guy to “coach up” Darnold.

NY Jets.....aka “The Land of Misfit Toys” hahaha

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43 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Jim Plunkett

Vinny Testaverde

Alex Smith

Steve Young (not a top 10 pick, but similar) 

Ryan Tannehill

This new structure where the 5th year option needs to be guaranteed will probably open up the opportunity for a lot more. It seems guys are only getting 2-3 years max these days. 

Not sure I consider Vinny and Tannehill (at least not yet) as successes after they left their first team.

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

Yes but if they’re top ten they’re retained by their teams until they can’t play. There have been quite a few that started with one team got traded around and then finally became successful. Rich Gannon and Jim Plunkett for 2. Drew Brees was traded by the chargers to be replaced by Rivers. Craig Morton took the Broncos to the Super Bowl after being replaced by Staubach on the cowgirls. Right now we are seeing Nick Foles having some success while moving between teams.

1. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I meant top 10 draft pick. If a QB is young and top ten at their position then it would be confusing why their first team would let them go...

2. Rich Gannon - 4th round, Nick Foles 3rd round. Top ten QBs are expected to be starters. They have resources, time, and effort invested in seeing them get there. They also have a much longer rope than a later round pick does. Yes, the league has many example of late round QBs who barely played or had questionable success with their team going elsewhere and succeeding. The point being is 2nd round and later QBs are rarely expected to be franchise QBs. They're usually fliers or expected to develop into a backup QB and get significantly less invested in their success by the team drafting them. 

3. Nick Foles - outside of not being a top ten pick - I don't recall him having success with the Jaguars (got beat out by Minshew). He lead an impressive comeback then had a poor game the next week. I'm not sure he can be declared a success.

4. Jim Plunkett ('71) and Craig Morton ('65) - I think only two examples out of 50+ years of football you're covering there... they would be the exceptions proving the rule..

5. Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft choice. He was replaced by... you guessed it, a top ten selection (4th overall). Also, it's pretty hard to argue that Brees was a failure. When he left the chargers, he had just made the pro bowl and was one of the highest rated QBs in the league. 

 

So as I said QBs drafted in the top ten that fail with their first team simply do not go on to other teams and have success. 

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3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

1. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I meant top 10 draft pick. If a QB is young and top ten at their position then it would be confusing why their first team would let them go...

FF 2. Rich Gannon - 4th round, Nick Foles 3rd round. Top ten QBs are expected to be starters. They have resources, time, and effort invested in seeing them get there. They also have a much longer rope than a later round pick does. Yes, the league has many example of late round QBs who barely played or had questionable success with their team going elsewhere and succeeding. The point being is 2nd round and later QBs are rarely expected to be franchise QBs. They're usually fliers or expected to develop into a backup QB and get significantly less invested in their success by the team drafting them. 

3. Nick Foles - outside of not being a top ten pick - I don't recall him having success with the Jaguars (got beat out by Minshew). He lead an impressive comeback then had a poor game the next week. I'm not sure he can be declared a success.

4. Jim Plunkett ('71) and Craig Morton ('65) - I think only two examples out of 50+ years of football you're covering there... they would be the exceptions proving the rule..

5. Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft choice. He was replaced by... you guessed it, a top ten selection (4th overall). Also, it's pretty hard to argue that Brees was a failure. When he left the chargers, he had just made the pro bowl and was one of the highest rated QBs in the league. 

 

So as I said QBs drafted in the top ten that fail with their first team simply do not go on to other teams and have success. 

That’s because in the par if you drafted a QB in the Top 10 you likely rode him for minimum 4 years unless you were a Jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf level bust. 
 

In today’s NFL if you don’t prove to be an upper echelon QB after 2-3 years you are done because of the salary cap impact. I’d expect to start seeing some of these guys (see Tannehill) restart their careers and have success elsewhere. 
 

The QB position is much better today than it was 10 years ago. There used to be less than 32 guys who were legit NFL QBs. Today there are much more than 32 guys who can give you credible play. As a result QBs need to be special if they want to get paid. 

 

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6 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Tannehill had a problem staying healthy but when healthy he was always an above average starter.

If Darnold had Tannehill's 2015 and 2016 in Miami you'd have people here calling him the second coming.

it's happening arcade fire GIF

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10 hours ago, JiF said:

Is Winston a bust?  I guess so because he was a 1st overall pick and now he's a back up but if I'm not mistaken, he's the first QB in the NFL history to throw for 4k and 20+ TD's in his first 2 seasons.  He threw for 5k and 33 TD's last season.

Idk - that doesnt seem bustish.  In fact, I wouldnt be upset if the Jets grabbed Winston in the offseason. Who knows, maybe he's learned something behind Brees and maybe bring Pete Carmichael with him.  I know one thing for sure, they'll score points. 

also threw 10,000 yards to the other team. 

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13 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

1. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I meant top 10 draft pick. If a QB is young and top ten at their position then it would be confusing why their first team would let them go...

2. Rich Gannon - 4th round, Nick Foles 3rd round. Top ten QBs are expected to be starters. They have resources, time, and effort invested in seeing them get there. They also have a much longer rope than a later round pick does. Yes, the league has many example of late round QBs who barely played or had questionable success with their team going elsewhere and succeeding. The point being is 2nd round and later QBs are rarely expected to be franchise QBs. They're usually fliers or expected to develop into a backup QB and get significantly less invested in their success by the team drafting them. 

3. Nick Foles - outside of not being a top ten pick - I don't recall him having success with the Jaguars (got beat out by Minshew). He lead an impressive comeback then had a poor game the next week. I'm not sure he can be declared a success.

4. Jim Plunkett ('71) and Craig Morton ('65) - I think only two examples out of 50+ years of football you're covering there... they would be the exceptions proving the rule..

5. Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft choice. He was replaced by... you guessed it, a top ten selection (4th overall). Also, it's pretty hard to argue that Brees was a failure. When he left the chargers, he had just made the pro bowl and was one of the highest rated QBs in the league. 

 

So as I said QBs drafted in the top ten that fail with their first team simply do not go on to other teams and have success. 

Okay. That makes sense.  I think you are right. I don’t recall very many that failed with their original team and then moved on and had success.  And even in plunketts case, he was successful with the raiders but it’s not like he was a superstar Qb.  One other guy that might make the list is Doug Williams. I don’t know if he was a top 10 pick.

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19 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Another young QB bust?

QBs drafted high since 2015

Busts

Darnold

Rosen

Winston

Mariota 

Haskins 

Trubisky

Jury Still Out/OK

Mayfield

Jones 

Lock

Tua

Wentz

Goff

Stud

Mahomes

Watson

Allen

Jackson

Murray

Burrow

Herbert

 

It's really amazing how soon a team gives up sometimes

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15 hours ago, GreekJet said:

They are still evaluating him so the jury is still out. Same with Lock and obviously Tua. 
 

Mayfield, Wentz, and Goff are middle of the pack guys no more less.

 

 

Right now Mayfield is miles better than Jones.  Wentz is much, much better, they dont belong in the same category.  

 

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21 hours ago, Beaver said:

Although whats worse.  Not knowing if you have the guy or not or knowing he is a bust?   I'll take the bust.  It hurts, but allows you to move on quickly.

If you still "don't know" by Year 3, you have yourself a bust.  

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22 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Another young QB bust?

QBs drafted high since 2015

Busts

Darnold

Rosen

Winston

Mariota 

Haskins 

Trubisky

Jury Still Out/OK

Mayfield

Jones 

Lock

Tua

Wentz

Goff

Stud

Mahomes

Watson

Allen

Jackson

Murray

Burrow

Herbert

 

So four games in and Burrow and Herbert have been declared FQB's ?

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Haskin threw for 4,800 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 Int his last year at Ohio State. That's an historic year. I don't see the reason for most of these kids being rushed in as starters. Not many bad teams are constructed in a way for a lad to jump in and be adequate.

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19 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Haskin threw for 4,800 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 Int his last year at Ohio State. That's an historic year. I don't see the reason for most of these kids being rushed in as starters. Not many bad teams are constructed in a way for a lad to jump in and be adequate.

I agree with this. 

I think some of these guys would have benefited a lot from sitting a year.

There is a long list of successful QBs that sat most or all of their first year. 

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How often has a top 10 QB that failed with one team gone to another and succeeded? Once they're ruined, they're done. 
I'm not convinced that he is runined though. We have been regressing on the players we put around him...the guy has had little to no time to throw the ball in the passed two years and this year has had no real viable options to throw to

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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54 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I'm not convinced that he is runined though. We have been regressing on the players we put around him...the guy has had little to no time to throw the ball in the passed two years and this year has had no real viable options to throw to

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

No time throw 🙄

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Haskins vs Darnold, career numbers:

  • Haskins:  59.6 % completions, 6.6 YPA, 77.8 QB Rating
  • Darnold:  59.8 % completions, 6.7 YPA, 79.6 QB Rating

Haskins vs Darnold, 2020 numbers:

  • Haskins:  61.0 % completions, 4 TDs/3 INTs, 6.4 YPA, 80.3 QB Rating
  • Darnold:  59.4 % completions, 3 TDs/4 INTs, 5.7 YPA, 70.7 QB Rating

 

If you use this opportunity to complain about Darnold's "weppinz" vs freaking Washington's, I will stab you.  

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On 10/7/2020 at 2:35 PM, jeremy2020 said:

How often has a top 10 QB that failed with one team gone to another and succeeded? Once they're ruined, they're done. 

Eli Manning did nothing with the Chargers and had a likely HOF career with the Giants.  :)

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On 10/7/2020 at 2:35 PM, jeremy2020 said:

How often has a top 10 QB that failed with one team gone to another and succeeded? Once they're ruined, they're done. 

I went back to the 1980 and couldn't find any great examples that met the criteria (QB drafted in the top 10 who failed with his first team but succeeded with his 2nd team).

The best example I found (though admittedly not great) was Alex Smith.  Probably the 2nd best example was Vinny T.

 

As a side note, check out the first 5 picks of the 1989 draft.  4 HOFers.

image.png.59d45a8f3d646fe2a899e1708407d1a4.png

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On 10/7/2020 at 4:52 PM, GreekJet said:

Jim Plunkett

Vinny Testaverde

Alex Smith

Steve Young (not a top 10 pick, but similar) 

Ryan Tannehill

This new structure where the 5th year option needs to be guaranteed will probably open up the opportunity for a lot more. It seems guys are only getting 2-3 years max these days. 

Tannehill’s numbers under Adam Gase in Maimi are as follows: 4,974 yards, 38 touchdowns, 21 interceptions in just 24 games. In 12 games in Tennessee, Tannehill put up 2,742 yards with 22 scores and just six interceptions.

The numbers are extremely comparable.

https://elitesportsny.com/2020/01/13/new-york-jets-enough-already-with-the-adam-gase-held-ryan-tannehill-back-narrative/

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13 hours ago, flgreen said:

Tannehill’s numbers under Adam Gase in Maimi are as follows: 4,974 yards, 38 touchdowns, 21 interceptions in just 24 games. In 12 games in Tennessee, Tannehill put up 2,742 yards with 22 scores and just six interceptions.

The numbers are extremely comparable.

https://elitesportsny.com/2020/01/13/new-york-jets-enough-already-with-the-adam-gase-held-ryan-tannehill-back-narrative/

I could kiss you. Tannehill didn’t “resurge” he stayed healthy and did what he’s always done: play pretty good football.

Of course, that's now magically becoming an "obvious point, duh" but when I expressed that Tannehill was gonna kick ass in Tenn I was roundly ridiculed. Can't wait to replace the CBPOTY sig with Tannehill pro bowl sig (which I also predicted). Being right sometimes has to be its own reward.

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On 10/8/2020 at 11:10 AM, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Haskin threw for 4,800 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 Int his last year at Ohio State. That's an historic year. I don't see the reason for most of these kids being rushed in as starters. Not many bad teams are constructed in a way for a lad to jump in and be adequate.

His teammates hate him and he stinks. Easiest way to get benched.

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On 10/7/2020 at 1:31 PM, Skeet Ulrich said:

Kyle Allen is starter, Smith is #2. Haskins got bumped to third string.

 

Haskins all the way back to third string?

 

What did he do, get caught in the hay with the owner's favorite cheerleader?

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