Why Douglas can't fix it in one off-season

[CanadaSteve]

There are many calling for Douglas' head already because more than half of his draft picks are injured right now and not 'contributing.'  

Here is a great example as to why he will need more than one off season.  Using Pittsburgh as one of the better (but NOT the best) drafting teams.

PITTSBURTH STEELERS

SINCE 2015-2019

DRAFT PICKS:  39 PICKS    

STARTERS ON TEAM:   7

OTHER PICKS ON TEAM:  15

ON OTHER TEAMS: 6

OUT OF LEAGUE:  11

BUST RATE:  28 percent 

NY JETS

SINCE 2015-2019

DRAFT PICKS:  34 PICKS    

STARTERS ON TEAM:   5

OTHER PICKS ON TEAM:  6

ON OTHER TEAMS: 7

OUT OF LEAGUE:  16

BUST RATE:  47 percent 

When you draft this bad for so long (and this doesn't include Idzik's two horrendous years or the draft before that), you can't possibly expect this to take anything less than 2-3 years until we start seeing competitive football again in NY green. 

[HawkeyeJet]

The other thing that I think is often overlooked in this particular topic is that when we fans think of the "common" rebuild most of those teams at least have 1 or 2 adequate to good players spread across the most important positions on the team(QB, WR,OT, Pass Rusher and CB).  The Jets didn't even have that.  Douglas "hit rate" in this first draft would have to be 100% and all picks be immediate adequate NFL starters to turn it around in 1 off-season while still positioning himself well for the years to come. 

[Beerfish]

No one has said he can fix it one off season.  

People are giving Douglas a bit of flack because his 1st draft results have been idzik like so far.  None of these guys are playing.

Becton looked great for 2 1/2 games and that is it, we know that when healthy he will be really good the others we have no clue at all.

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

We also have a coaching staff that prefers senior citizens then rather try a younger player. 

[slimjasi]

I didn't expect him to fix it in one offseason, but I think you have to be disappointed in the overall lack of competitiveness in the team. And everyone shares blame in that. 

[Losmeister]

Gase deserves to be criticized.

BUt ANY HC would struggle as well...  and AGAIN

IDGAF about Gase.

[AL047]

I have been saying since after the draft this year, that Douglas has a lot of work to do. I also said that it will take more than one year to fix this team!!!! This team has NO FOUNDATION at all!!!! 

The smart thing Douglas is doing is getting a lot of draft picks now and for the future to build this team. He is doing the right thing in building this team and knows this team isn't going anywhere in the future!!!!

[Barkus]

JD realized this. This is why he wanted a 6yr deal. This is why he did not sign expensive vets for a short fix (see mac’s first yr as GM). His goal was to gain cap flexibility and stockpile picks. He is cleaning up Mac’s mess. Trumaine, Roberts, winters, enunwa, all cut. Bell will be  cut after the season, Mosley likely the season after next, etc. The pain of this year will hopefully lead to better picks next year, more salary cap room, new HC, and likely new rookie QB. Of course he has to draft well or this will be Idzik part 2. Hopefully his recent picks will get healthy and start playing so we see what we have. Got to hope that his plan works and we can start fresh next year and start playing more competitive football. Sucks that our seasons keep ending before October!

[Saul Goodman]

The Jets bust rate has to be far higher than 47%. Too lazy to look but I’d guess it’s gotta be closer to 80-90%. 

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No one has said he can fix it one off season.  

People are giving Douglas a bit of flack because his 1st draft results have been idzik like so far.  None of these guys are playing.

Becton looked great for 2 1/2 games and that is it, we know that when healthy he will be really good the others we have no clue at all.

 

Sorry dude, that ain't true.  There are people on this board, multiple people, who have called for Douglas' head already.

You can't blame Douglas for the fact that almost every draft pick is hurt.  Lets talk about the field conditions and the training before we say things like that.

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

The Jets bust rate has to be far higher than 47%. Too lazy to look but I’d guess it’s gotta be closer to 80-90%. 

That is the exact number for the years quoted.  I looked up every pick and traced where they are.  Some of the 'bust' rate might be skewed as it says that certain players are on a practice squad, but I could not find them as such.  I still concluded that if they are not on an actual NFL roster, they are out of league.  Did that for both teams.

Jets bust rate goes higher if you include the two Idzik years. 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Barkus said:

JD realized this. This is why he wanted a 6yr deal. This is why he did not sign expensive vets for a short fix (see mac’s first yr as GM). His goal was to gain cap flexibility and stockpile picks. He is cleaning up Mac’s mess. Trumaine, Roberts, winters, enunwa, all cut. Bell will be  cut after the season, Mosley likely the season after next, etc. The pain of this year will hopefully lead to better picks next year, more salary cap room, new HC, and likely new rookie QB. Of course he has to draft well or this will be Idzik part 2. Hopefully his recent picks will get healthy and start playing so we see what we have. Got to hope that his plan works and we can start fresh next year and start playing more competitive football. Sucks that our seasons keep ending before October!

We can hope.  And we will have top picks in every round which can be utilized in downward moves to stockpile more picks.

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Sorry dude, that ain't true.  There are people on this board, multiple people, who have called for Douglas' head already.

You can't blame Douglas for the fact that almost every draft pick is hurt.  Lets talk about the field conditions and the training before we say things like that.

Very very very few people have called for his head.  That doesn't mean he does not deserve to take the hit for some decisions.

I guess you have forgiven john idzik for dee milliner and ac for devin smith?

If the guys can't play they are not helping.  They have to get on the field for us to see if they are any good.

I like Douglas, think he will do well.  But in the famous words of denny green  I am not going to crown his ass.

[rangerous]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No one has said he can fix it one off season.  

People are giving Douglas a bit of flack because his 1st draft results have been idzik like so far.  None of these guys are playing.

Becton looked great for 2 1/2 games and that is it, we know that when healthy he will be really good the others we have no clue at all.

 

Maybe none of the fans on this board but some of the talking heads are saying Douglas should share in this years failure. They point to the draft where only 3 of the players are contributing. Of course they completely discount that Mims, Clark, and Zuniga May turn out to be solid players once they finally do play. In any case, Douglas has done a better job drafting than Mac or idzik.

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Very very very few people have called for his head.  That doesn't mean he does not deserve to take the hit for some decisions.

I guess you have forgiven john idzik for dee milliner and ac for devin smith?

If the guys can't play they are not helping.  They have to get on the field for us to see if they are any good.

I like Douglas, think he will do well.  But in the famous words of denny green  I am not going to crown his ass.

There have been at least a dozen on this board.  We had people last year saying he shouldn't even get to draft once because he signed a kicker who missed two field goals against Buffalo.  But I digress....

No, I haven't forgiven Idzik for his drafts because they were given three years and didn't produce.  I will complain about Douglas when 47 percent of this draft fails.  No sense talking about what Douglas has/has not done for about three years. I don't judge James Morgan over a 4th round WR pick until we see Morgan play.  He could be a solid back-up, but they are doing the right thing by letting him sit.  The whole draft has seen time on the IR.  Can you blame a GM for that?  Possibly Zuniga, who had injury concerns, but the rest...

Again, the amount of injuries on one team, and the number of players injured from other teams in the Jets facility MIGHT be indicative to other problems.

 

[jamesr]

9 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Maybe none of the fans on this board but some of the talking heads are saying Douglas should share in this years failure. They point to the draft where only 3 of the players are contributing. Of course they completely discount that Mims, Clark, and Zuniga May turn out to be solid players once they finally do play. In any case, Douglas has done a better job drafting than Mac or idzik.

I believe this is called "damning with faint praise".  

Doing better than the guy who got fired for sucking isn't something to get excited about. It's a bare minimum job requirement.

In 3 or 4 years time - probably less - JD will deserve to be fired if this is the best we can say about him. I want to hear him being compared (favourably) to the likes of Ozzie Newsome when it comes to drafting, not Idzik & Macc.

[jamesr]

5 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

There have been at least a dozen on this board.  We had people last year saying he shouldn't even get to draft once because he signed a kicker who missed two field goals against Buffalo.  But I digress....

No, I haven't forgiven Idzik for his drafts because they were given three years and didn't produce.  I will complain about Douglas when 47 percent of this draft fails.  No sense talking about what Douglas has/has not done for about three years. I don't judge James Morgan over a 4th round WR pick until we see Morgan play.  He could be a solid back-up, but they are doing the right thing by letting him sit.  The whole draft has seen time on the IR.  Can you blame a GM for that?  Possibly Zuniga, who had injury concerns, but the rest...

Again, the amount of injuries on one team, and the number of players injured from other teams in the Jets facility MIGHT be indicative to other problems.

 

This is another sign of the "more than one year to fix". JD wasn't drafting for immediate need, he was drafting for the medium term with this pick. A backup QB has little value to us this year - but in 2-3 years a seasoned backup with some playing time under his belt would be a real asset.

[Sammybighead]

6 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I believe this is called "damning with faint praise".  

Doing better than the guy who got fired for sucking isn't something to get excited about. It's a bare minimum job requirement.

In 3 or 4 years time - probably less - JD will deserve to be fired if this is the best we can say about him. I want to hear him being compared (favourably) to the likes of Ozzie Newsome when it comes to drafting, not Idzik & Macc.

We don’t have enough history/results about JD yet to make any judgement. Here’s what we do know:

1. JD made some draft picks whom we won’t truly be able to judge for another year or two.

2. JD really hasn’t spent cash and but instead has stock piled cap space. The FAs have been bandaids/stop gaps. Although he deserves some criticism for this approach because Sam needed help immediately, it’s hard to judge his FA signings because he hasn’t spent real money on any big time FAs yet. When he does that and signs someone to that monster contract, he’ll be judged on that. I believe that will happen next offseason.

[rangerous]

9 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I believe this is called "damning with faint praise".  

Doing better than the guy who got fired for sucking isn't something to get excited about. It's a bare minimum job requirement.

In 3 or 4 years time - probably less - JD will deserve to be fired if this is the best we can say about him. I want to hear him being compared (favourably) to the likes of Ozzie Newsome when it comes to drafting, not Idzik & Macc.

i don't have the drafting stats of ozzie newsome.  i'll bet they aren't quite as good as people may think.  consider if clark, zuniga, and mims all turn out to be solid starters?  that would mean douglas would've hit on 6 of 8 and i hazard that's better than most gms.  

and i'm not giving douglas faint praise as much as criticising the talking heads who somehow want to point the lack of success in his direction.

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No one has said he can fix it one off season.  

People are giving Douglas a bit of flack because his 1st draft results have been idzik like so far.  None of these guys are playing.

Becton looked great for 2 1/2 games and that is it, we know that when healthy he will be really good the others we have no clue at all.

 

Whos Idziks Becton? 

And how do we go from "we dont know about" to busts or even comparing them to anyone after all of 4 games into their careers?
 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Whos Idziks Becton? 

And how do we go from "we dont know about" to busts or even comparing them to anyone after all of 4 games into their careers?
 

Sheldumb

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Sheldumb

I was thinking Sheldumb but really he never was all that good outside of year 1, I think the expectations for MB have been bigger from day 1 and he seems to meet those expectations.  

I get the thought but again for this draft, its been all of 4 games.  What do we know about the players taken and how the draft will play out?  We've gone from A Davis being J Adams replacement to being a bust in a few short weeks.  Without even taking a snap.  LOL

[RichardTodd27]

15 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No one has said he can fix it one off season.  

People are giving Douglas a bit of flack because his 1st draft results have been idzik like so far.  None of these guys are playing.

Becton looked great for 2 1/2 games and that is it, we know that when healthy he will be really good the others we have no clue at all.

 

Agree with this. And I like Becton and all, but would've stayed away from drafting him in the 1st round (especially over Wirfs) because of the injury risk.

Big dudes tend to get hurt often.

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I was thinking Sheldumb but really he never was all that good outside of year 1, I think the expectations for MB have been bigger from day 1 and he seems to meet those expectations.  

I get the thought but again for this draft, its been all of 4 games.  What do we know about the players taken and how the draft will play out?  We've gone from A Davis being J Adams replacement to being a bust in a few short weeks.  Without even taking a snap.  LOL

Like what I see of bechton but it’s 3 games and Sheldumb did win DROY which does mean something 

[pdxgreen]

Because he's partnered with the worse head coach since Wally Lemm?

[DonCorleone]

13 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Sorry dude, that ain't true.  There are people on this board, multiple people, who have called for Douglas' head already.

You can't blame Douglas for the fact that almost every draft pick is hurt.  Lets talk about the field conditions and the training before we say things like that.

IMO something is incredibly off with the Jets training. I have never seen waves like these happening 2 years in a row. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Like what I see of bechton but it’s 3 games and Sheldumb did win DROY which does mean something 

True and fair enough, guess I'm thinking Becton looks like a long time fixture at an important position, Sheldumb was a flash in the pan, one year wonder for Idzik

[jetscrazey]

There's like 5-6 things that all have to break right for the Jets to be good next year:

1) New HC who is competent and can change the culture overnight

2) Sam responds to the new HC and plays well

3) We revolutionize the WR position this offseason with the $90 mil in cap space.  Somehow get Allan Robinson and draft Jamarr Chase

4) CJ Mosley comes back in good shape and the culture of the defense changes

5) A legit edge rusher emerges or signs

6) We shore up the CB position currently occupied by Desir.

[Adoni Beast]

Douglas’ demand for a 6 year deal told you everything you need to know about his opinion the roster and coaching staff. He the first 2 years were going to be about gutting the roster and letting the sh*t coaching staff fire themselves.

All anyone (especially Joe Douglas) wanted to realistically see from this season was:

- Sam Darnold to progress (in spite of Gase’s repulsive existence) and stay healthy.

- The OL gel

- Douglas’ rookies to get experience.

We’ll be lucky to get 1 out of 3 by seasons end.

Everything else was done by JD was to turn over the roster and staff, that’s it.