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PFF Grades of Douglas players

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40 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Would you clean house if the choice was yours? Start completely over.

No.

I would:

1. Fire Gase today.  Don't even care who the Fill In is, the long-term solution is not currently on staff.

2. Retain Douglas.

3. Sit my hurt young assets till fully healthy (Darnold, Becton, Mims).  Fill in must know his place and who calls the shots (i.e. not them) on playing time.

4. Live with the Poop we are till then, then go as big as our cap space and draft picks allows in supporting Darnold in the 2021 offseason.  

The Jets MUST compete in 2021.  No excuses, no other options, no matter the cost.

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Just now, Warfish said:

No.

I would:

1. Fire Gase today.  Don't even care who the Fill In is, the long-term solution is not currently on staff.

2. Retain Douglas.

3. Sit my hurt young assets till fully healthy (Darnold, Becton, Mims).  Fill in must know his place and who calls the shots (i.e. not them) on playing time.

4. Live with the Poop we are till then, then go as big as our cap space and draft picks allows in supporting Darnold in the 2021 offseason.  

The Jets MUST compete in 2021.  No excuses, no other options, no matter the cost.

Interesting. 

So, if Darnold doesn't play another snap this season - you are good building around him based on what you have seen so far? 

Follow-up question: Do you bring in a vet to compete with him like the Bears did with Trubsiky?

 

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5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Interesting. 

So, if Darnold doesn't play another snap this season - you are good building around him based on what you have seen so far? 

Follow-up question: Do you bring in a vet to compete with him like the Bears did with Trubsiky?

 

Trevor Lawrence will never be a New York Jet.  We should come to terms with that now, to save the disappointment later.

Yes, while I am one of Darnold largest critics on JN, I would likely stick with him another season, and this time put to bed the excuses of "weapons" and Gase.  If he fails in his fourth year of his rookie contract, he's done here.

I don't buy the hype that Lawrence is generational.  It's an overused term in my view, that gets thrown around all the time.  Like it was (despite people now denying it) when Darnold was coming out.

end of the day, it will not matter who we have or draft, till we solve the massive talent gap overall between us and the rest of the NFL.  We must have a team first, especially an O-line and some skill players, before we can expect ANY QB to produce here.  As usual, we're ass backwards, a QB with no team is no QB.

Do I really think Darnold will become great under this plan?  No.  But he (and we) deserve the chance.  There will always be another hyped up QB prospect to draft in 2022, 2023, 2024 as needed.  There always is.

On Vets, no, I never, ever, EVER bring in Vets to waste our time.  I am a proponent of having three young QB's all with some degree of real starter potential.  Best man wins.  The worn out old Vet is a waste of everyone's time.  But I am on an island with this philosophy, and I get that.  I wouldn't play Flacco Sunday, for example, I would play Morgan 100%.

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21 minutes ago, heymangold said:

so Fant and Beachum are basically the same.

Lewis better than Winters and Osemele.

Becton a stud.

need a McGovern to step it up - and get another guard.  go balls to the wall for Thuney.

To me this shows:

  • For the OL, exactly what we thought it was-a great new LT and a marginal improvement overall for maybe a bit less cost  McGovern was supposed to be better.  I think there is a Gase factor where everyone plays worse.
  • Letting Robby go was a bad move if there was any intent to compete this season and help Darnold.   Personally, I think that call came from the Johnsons who just did not want to pay Robby that much money given his history.  

This team and JD are going nowhere unless the players are less injured, one way or the other.

Dbrickashaw was never injured.  A big guy like Orlando Brown does not get injured.  Becton can't be straining his shoulder blocking guys who weigh 50-100 pounds less than he weighs.

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Brandon Shell: 63.1

So that’s another one that’s been upgraded. Shell of course better for the money, though the Jets needed someone capable of playing left tackle before the draft so they weren’t boxed in at 11 if they board didn’t fall favorably.

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11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Trevor Lawrence will never be a New York Jet.  We should come to terms with that now, to save the disappointment later.

Yes, while I am one of Darnold largest critics on JN, I would likely stick with him another season, and this time put to bed the excuses of "weapons" and Gase.  If he fails in his fourth year of his rookie contract, he's done here.

I don't buy the hype that Lawrence is generational.  It's an overused term in my view, that gets thrown around all the time.  Like it was (despite people now denying it) when Darnold was coming out.

end of the day, it will not matter who we have or draft, till we solve the massive talent gap overall between us and the rest of the NFL.  We must have a team first, especially an O-line and some skill players, before we can expect ANY QB to produce here.  As usual, we're ass backwards, a QB with no team is no QB.

Do I really think Darnold will become great under this plan?  No.  But he (and we) deserve the chance.  There will always be another hyped up QB prospect to draft in 2022, 2023, 2024 as needed.  There always is.

On Vets, no, I never, ever, EVER bring in Vets to waste our time.  I am a proponent of having three young QB's all with some degree of real starter potential.  Best man wins.  The worn out old Vet is a waste of everyone's time.  But I am on an island with this philosophy, and I get that.  I wouldn't play Flacco Sunday, for example, I would play Morgan 100%.

I honestly wouldn't mind this, at all. 

I don't think the Jets would ever pass on Lawrence because the Johnson's have no conviction and will ultimately do whatever the media wants, but I really can't disagree with any of this. 

And yeah, starting Flacco this Sunday makes zero sense. 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

look at the politics ahead of him 

Gregg WIlliams has a mandate to prove Maye = 33

and McDougald is literally the replacement 

he's going to have to wait until one of them gets injured to play but he's better than the butt hurdle 

 

Sure but part of the sell on Davis was his versatility.  He could play Safety and Corner. He plays neither, on a terrible defense with no corners.  McDougald is terrible and has no future here, cant get a few snaps from him?  I thought he was also a ST's specialist, yet, he doesnt play ST's either, are politics keeping him from playing ST's ?

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5 minutes ago, derp said:

So that’s another one that’s been upgraded. Shell of course better for the money, though the Jets needed someone capable of playing left tackle before the draft so they weren’t boxed in at 11 if they board didn’t fall favorably.

Brandon Shell gets a $500k/game roster bonus.  His contract is deceptive.  

We are better off with Fant than Shell or Conklin.   That was a good move.

We really needed a dominant RG this year.  GVR is not it.  Between a dominant RG and Lewis, McGovern if healthy would be fine, or at least better. 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

You're kidding, right?  lol

You feel good at these positions with those guys?  Like, your set, dont need to upgrade WR/Pass Rush/DL? 

 

For now....yes.

Because we can't draft and fix about 18 positions all in one year.

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Sure, but I still want to give everyone in this rookie class more than 4 games to get on the field and contribute. 

Andy Reid let Mahomes sit on the bench until week 17 of his rookie year before letting him start a game.

These guys still have a lot of time. 

The average NFL career is 3 years, they dont have that much time. 

I think QB is different, especially considering their situation.  Reid let Mahomes watch Smith who was 11-4 the year before and playing like an MVP in his system the year Mahomes was a rookie.  Not sure it's apples to apples.  

Again, the safety picked 2 players after Davis, plays  67% of the snaps in Miami, Davis 4%.  

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

while I am one of Darnold largest critics on JN, I would likely stick with him another season

I don't know that you can plausibly claim to be a big Darnold critic if you want him to start next season. Arguing for yet another year of wait and see is really more of an avoidance of having to think about anything critically. If we're going to keep throwing these words around like they mean things.

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

I meant fire both the coach and GM.

Obviously you're not firing Douglas but we're talking about the grades being terrible on his players.  I guess we can all act like it's not cornering and blame Gase and just act like it all will suddenly get better next season! 

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

The average NFL career is 3 years, they dont have that much time. 

I think QB is different, especially considering their situation.  Reid let Mahomes watch Smith who was 11-4 the year before and playing like an MVP in his system the year Mahomes was a rookie.  Not sure it's apples to apples.  

Again, the safety picked 2 players after Davis, plays  67% of the snaps in Miami, Davis 4%.  

We agree, overall. The QB is definitely a unique position. 

The Davis pick looks highly, highly suspect right now. I would still like to see the next coaching staff get their hands on him. 

The team is so lost right now and the perception of the team is so toxic that I still will be excited to see all of these rookies get a clean slate next year. 

 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

PFF is stupid but yeah, this isnt shocking.  JD has been a disaster thus far.  Outside of Becton, has he added a single player that brings any value to this team or has any future?  The answer is no and that pretty bad considering he took over one of the worst/ if not the worst rosters in the league.

It's hard to imagine being that incompetent but here we are!

 

Kind of absurd to write off the draft class. Mims and Zuniga haven't played yet and Davis has played like 20 snaps.

Frustrating these guys are all injured but I think you need to have a little perspective after four games.

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Kind of absurd to write off the draft class. Mims and Zuniga haven't played yet and Davis has played like 20 snaps.

Yeah, Mims and Zuniga are big keys. 

If either of those guys is a stud, it's a game-changer. 

 

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3 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Free Agents/Trades

Breshad Perriman-56.3

Former Jets

Robby Anderson-74.5

200.gif

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8 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

For now....yes.

Because we can't draft and fix about 18 positions all in one year.

For now, like for this season but saying they are "nice pieces" when they will undoubtedly be upgraded is just being untruthful.  They're not nice pieces.   You're not building around any of those players, you're immediately looking to upgrade the second the offseason hits.

And you're right, you cant fix the team in one offseason and nobody was expecting that but when you're this talent depleted but they didnt fix anything other than 1 position,  that's a problem. We came into 2020 with "18" positions to fix, we're going into 2021 with "17" positions to fix.  That's concerning.  Not really sure how you can say otherwise.

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Honestly, the biggest JD whiffs at this point are Perriman over Anderson (obviously terrible and most of us said it at the time) and Desir, who is just terrible.

 

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3 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Free Agents/Trades

Bradley MacDougald-48

Pierre Desir-56.7

Connor McGovern-44.2

GVR-55.7

Josh Anderws-53.7

George Fant-64.5

Brian Poole-73.6

Alex Lewis-69

Jordan Jenkins-60.9

Frank Gore-62.7

Breshad Perriman-56.3

Chris Hogan-55.7

Draft Picks

Mehki Becton-72.6

Ashtyn Davis-43.7

LaMichael Perine-53.7

Former Jets

Robby Anderson-74.5

Jamal Adams-68

Kelvin Beachum-65.7

Kelechi Osemele-60.6

Brandon Shell-63.6

Brian Winters-46.9

Daryl Roberts-58.1

 

Also note that Jack Conklin, who some of the more enlightened members of this establishment were hoping to sign, has a higher grade than any single Jet with an 85.8

@T0mShane. You trash.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

You're kidding, right?  lol

You feel good at these positions with those guys?  Like, your set, dont need to upgrade WR/Pass Rush/DL? 

 

Who the f*ck said that? All the poster did was point out some additional players with better grades that were conveniently left off the original list. This team has enough natural misery all on it's own. You dont need to reach extra hard to fit your narrative. 

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8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

We agree, overall. The QB is definitely a unique position. 

The Davis pick looks highly, highly suspect right now. I would still like to see the next coaching staff get their hands on him. 

The team is so lost right now and the perception of the team is so toxic that I still will be excited to see all of these rookies get a clean slate next year. 

 

I know we all hate Gregg Williams right now (he was the darling of JN a month ago and many want to be named interim HC) but is he holding Davis back?  Idk.   Hope you're right.

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16 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Kind of absurd to write off the draft class. Mims and Zuniga haven't played yet and Davis has played like 20 snaps.

Frustrating these guys are all injured but I think you need to have a little perspective after four games.

I'm hopeful for Mims and if he hits, that will certainly help but this is Zuniga.  He was the same guy in college, I really dont expect him to suddenly change.  And if you're not concerned that Davis cant get on the field for this terrible D or on ST's, cool but I dont know how you could possibly be encouraged.  He's a 3rd round pick and cant play on a terrible talentless defense or contribute to ST's...odds are stacked against him.  I'm fine with revisiting at the end of the year, 4 games is early but I dont think much will have changed. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

I know we all hate Gregg Williams right now (he was the darling of JN a month ago and many want to be named interim HC) but is he holding Davis back?  Idk.   Hope you're right.

I have no idea, but Davis is going to be here next year and Williams almost assuredly will not, so we might as well wait and see what Davis is in year 2 under a different coaching staff. 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

You're kidding, right?  lol

You feel good at these positions with those guys?  Like, your set, dont need to upgrade WR/Pass Rush/DL? 

 

I didn’t claim they were foundational guys. Good pieces that build out a roster are nice. The 10 years before JD left the cupboard bare. We have 1 premium position filled out in 1 full offseason, which is more than Mac or Idzik did for us. 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

I don't put much into pff numbers but it's troubling that Darryl Roberts is playing better football than perriman and desir
 

 


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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm hopeful for Mims and if he hits, that will certainly help but this is Zuniga.  He was the same guy in college, I really dont expect him to suddenly change.  And if you're not concerned that Davis cant get on the field for this terrible D or on ST's, cool but I dont know how you could possibly be encouraged.  He's a 3rd round pick and cant play on a terrible talentless defense or contribute to ST's...odds are stacked against him.  I'm fine with revisiting at the end of the year, 4 games is early but I dont think much will have changed. 

 

 

Davis is injured, right? He didn't play much the first week but hasn't he been injured since then? I would expect that when he's healthy we'll see him more -- but I agree that Davis has been the most troubling given that he was hyped up during training camp.

Mims is a massive who knows. Right now I just want to see him play.

Zuniga obviously has the injury history which is why we got him where we did, but I won't write him off. I think he's still a high upside complimentary piece. The pass rush needs serious work but I wouldn't be shocked if he blossomed as a situational pass rusher.

Obviously, the Jets draft class has collectively been disappointing. I just think overall it's been more an issue of injuries rather than guys who simply can't play, so I'm willing to take a wait and see approach.

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21 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

Who the f*ck said that? All the poster did was point out some additional players with better grades that were conveniently left off the original list. This team has enough natural misery all on it's own. You dont need to reach extra hard to fit your narrative. 

Yummy, I like your anger.  So salty.  Savory

11 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I didn’t claim they were foundational guys. Good pieces that build out a roster are nice. The 10 years before JD left the cupboard bare. We have 1 premium position filled out in 1 full offseason, which is more than Mac or Idzik did for us. 

"Good pieces that build a roster" - sorry, I dont see that when I look at those players you mentioned who have barely played. Myers has played like 28%, Huff like 16%.   Cager and Berrios?  Come'on.  lol  None of these guys making you feel comfortable at all and everyone of those is a priority moving forward (maybe not DL but still), so again, I dont see "nice pieces to build out a roster."  I see bottom roster fillers who are replaced in a blink of an eye.

 

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47 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

I don't know that you can plausibly claim to be a big Darnold critic if you want him to start next season.

Respectfully, that's not really my problem to worry about. 

If you want to say I'm not a critic, my posting history is there to read as you like. 

If you want to say a critic can't want to see more of a player, well, that's just silly.  

47 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Arguing for yet another year of wait and see is really more of an avoidance of having to think about anything critically. If we're going to keep throwing these words around like they mean things.

Let me guess, you REALLY want us to draft Trevor Lawrence, right?  Alot of "critical thinking" there, lol.

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

PFF is stupid but yeah, this isnt shocking.  JD has been a disaster thus far.  Outside of Becton, has he added a single player that brings any value to this team or has any future?  The answer is no and that pretty bad considering he took over one of the worst/ if not the worst rosters in the league.

It's hard to imagine being that incompetent but here we are!

 

The answer isn’t no, it’s we don’t know . Unfortunately the entire class got hurt basically but it’s only been a month. But yes early returns so far are poor 

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5 hours ago, Ohhthepain said:

McGovern needs to be back at guard and we need to draft IOL with that Seattle pick this year 

I'd love to see what the O line looks like with Cameron Clark at G instead of Van Roten. I think Clark has the same mauler attitude of Bectin.  If he does well, then I'd put him on the left side next to Bectin, move Lewis to RG next to Fant and draft the highest rated C in the draft. 

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4 hours ago, jetophile said:

If there is one position that Jets fans have been spoiled with consistently for years it's Center. Rasmussen (well, Guard), Joe Fields, Jim Sweeney, Joe Klecko, Kevin Mawae, Nick Mangold, that's a pretty solid run and they all had lengthy careers. I wonder how that happened. Anyway, agreed about Center. It's oddly something that the Jets have done right by and large, which is really probably by accident somehow. : /

Joe Klecko played Center? What parallel universe was that in?

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4 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Joe Klecko played Center? What parallel universe was that in?

Just checking to see who was on their feet. 😜

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1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

Also note that Jack Conklin, who some of the more enlightened members of this establishment were hoping to sign, has a higher grade than any single Jet with an 85.8

@T0mShane. You trash.

JACK CONKLIN IS A REDNECK WHO DIDN’T WANT TO RIDE THE SUBWAY

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42 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'd love to see what the O line looks like with Cameron Crawford at G instead of Van Roten. I think Crawford has the same mauler attitude of Bectin.  If he does well, then I'd put him on the left side next to Bectin, move Lewis to RG next to Fant and draft the highest rated C in the draft. 

 

who is that GIF

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