Sam Darnold in danger of getting Josh Rosen treatment

[BROOKLYN JET]

By Mark Cannizzaro October 9, 2020 | 2:12am | Updated

When the Jets play Sunday at MetLife Stadium, they may be looking at a template example of their future in their opponent, the 2-2 Cardinals.

For the past three years, the Jets have believed they have their franchise quarterback. Three seasons in, however, the results have not been what they hoped since Sam Darnold was drafted with the third-overall pick in 2018.

Darnold, who’s 11-18 as a starter, missed three games his rookie season, going 4-9, and another three games in 2019, going 7-6 after returning from his bout with mononucleosis.

Now Darnold is out of the lineup again, set to miss Sunday’s game with a right shoulder injury that has him listed as “week to week,’’ which leaves his return an open-ended mystery.

Seven picks later in that same 2018 draft in which the Jets chose Darnold, the Cardinals selected another promising prospect from Southern California, UCLA’s Josh Rosen, to be their franchise quarterback.

Rosen went 3-10 as a starter and produced similar numbers to Darnold in their respective rookie seasons. Rosen completed 55.2 percent of his passes, threw 11 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. Darnold completed 57.7 percent, threw 17 TDs and 15 INTs.

Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold Getty Images, AP

The following year, faced with the No. 1-overall pick in 2019 and with a new head coach in Kliff Kingsbury, the Cardinals pounced on quarterback Kyler Murray and traded away Rosen after only one season.

Rosen, currently on the Buccaneers practice squad, is now with his third NFL team in three seasons.

What if the Jets, currently 0-4, continue to lose and end up with the No. 1-overall pick?

Could they possibly pass up the chance to draft Clemson quarterback Trevor Lawrence, who’s considered by college football experts to be a generational talent?

The answer to that question is this: They can’t.

Jets general manager Joe Douglas, remember, didn’t draft Darnold. Similarly in Arizona, though Cardinals general manager Steve Keim drafted Rosen, Kingsbury was not the coach when Rosen was chosen, and he jumped at the chance to take Murray with the top-overall pick in 2019.

Murray responded by winning the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year honors, completing 64.4 percent of his passes for 3,722 yards with 20 TDs to 12 INTs and rushing for 544 yards and four TDs.

The Cardinals finished 5-10-1 with Murray last season, but were a popular pick to be a playoff team this season based on upside of Murray, who in the offseason was gifted receiver DeAndre Hopkins in a trade with the Texans.

Where’s the Jets’ upside?

“It’s a quarterback-driven league, and if you’re a general manager that can’t find the right quarterback, you’re not going to have a job very long,’’ Keim said in an interview with the Cardinals’ team website during the offseason when referring to drafting Murray. “Fortunately for us, we had the first pick at the right time, and we think we took the right player.’’

The consensus is that Clemson’s Lawrence is that “right player,’’ a no-brainer at No. 1, a game-changer.

“Ultimately the decision was made that you don’t pass on [expletive] LeBron James,’’ Erik Burkhardt, the agent for both Murray and Kingsbury, said of the Cardinals drafting Murray in that same story by the team website.

As good a pro as Darnold has been, as good a soldier as he’s been despite the poor hands he’s been dealt by team management, with its inability to surround him with enough complementary talent, how much longer might he have?

Despite the fact Darnold is now going to miss at least one game because of injury or illness for the third consecutive season, he refuses to view himself as injury prone and he, too, wants no part of being bogged down by a bleak big picture.

“It’s just something you got to deal with,’’ he said of the injuries. “I always have a positive mindset towards everything. Just looking at the season, did the first four games go the way that we want them to? No, but there’s a long season left ahead of us.’’

How much longer, though, does Darnold really have before a major decision must be made about his and the team’s future?

If the Jets end up with the No. 1-overall pick in 2021 and are to take the same path as the Cardinals did a year ago, it’s possible Darnold has only the balance of this season to show he’s the franchise quarterback he was drafted to be.

Life sometimes moves fast in the NFL. Just ask Josh Rosen.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/09/cardinals-proof-why-jets-may-be-forced-to-give-up-on-sam-darnold/

[Icer]

The best move the Cardinals could have made, and we will all see why on Sunday. You don't pass on game changer QBs because of sunk cost

[Warfish]

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, Icer said:

The best move the Cardinals could have made, and we will all see why on Sunday. You don't pass on game changer QBs because of sunk cost

the biggest gamble by our worst GM....        and....   its not working out.....

sam is building his own resume....  its not pretty so far

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

they didnt use the words qb guru for klingsbury....   is that a plus?

[playtowinthegame]

Joe Douglas even looks like Steve Keim. Both bald and big dudes.

Bye bye Sam.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

Sure.  Fine.  Hyperbole.  Whatever.

We've seen what Sam Darnold is.  A bottom tier QB.

Overly aggressive adjectives aren't what are going to keep me from being excited to draft Lawrence (or Fields, who I may prefer).

[HessStation]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

"generational talent"

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

why does everyone think this term is overused? the last generational talent everyone was talking about was Luck. 

[Larz]

Dumping him for a better player 

I’m ok with that 

[CTM]

7 minutes ago, HessStation said:

why does everyone think this term is overused? the last generational talent everyone was talking about was Luck. 

Because some used it for Darnold and it's being tossed around for Lawrence

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Sure.  Fine.  Hyperbole.  Whatever.

We've seen what Sam Darnold is.  A bottom tier QB.

TeddEY, I love you mate, we go way back.....do you really think I need to be told that?  Given my posts to-date?  ?

Quote

Overly aggressive adjectives aren't what are going to keep me from being excited to draft Lawrence (or Fields, who I may prefer).

Feel free to get excited.  I maintain that Trevor Lawrence will never play a single snap wearing Jets colors.  Ever.  i will not invest in this pipedream, one almost guaranteed to fail given that he alone will fail here without support the way every QB fails here without support.

Team first.  Trenches first.  Talent first.  QB later.  But to each their own.

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

TeddEY, I love you mate, we go way back.....do you really think I need to be told that?  Given my posts to-date?  ?

Feel free to get excited.  I maintain that Trevor Lawrence will never play a single snap wearing Jets colors.  Ever.  i will not invest in this pipedream, one almost guaranteed to fail given that he alone will fail here without support the way every QB fails here without support.

Team first.  Trenches first.  Talent first.  QB later.  But to each their own.

It's not that I disagree with you re: building.  However, you're only so often in a position to take the top QB in the draft.  As we very well may be, we have to take him.  The good news is, we have another 1st round pick, and a high second to support this QB.  Even if it isn't Lawrence.

The point I was making - as I know you know Darnold is trash - is related to your second point.  I don't see him as worth building around.  So, lets not pass on a guy who's a great prospect, because the team is trash too.

[ScarletKnight89]

He's already had more of a chance than Josh Rosen ever had to be fair.

[Smashmouth]

All these so called evaluators that watch Sam Darnold play football have to see just how terrible he plays, how he constantly misses wide open WR's, steps in a bucket when he throws, or throws off his back foot not getting enough zip on the ball because he plays scared in the pocket. His awareness is totally shot because the way he throws, it's as if he's always under pressure, that's probably what he meant by ghosts simply because even when he's not under pressure, he throws like he is under pressure.

How someone is not pointing this out to him and holding him accountable is beyond any football logic. If I'm the coach and I see him making bad throws due too bad mechanics I pull him out of the game and let him reflect on what he's doing for a week until he learns how to properly throw a football. I continue to do this until he learns or I continue to pull him and let him watch film of Patrick Mahomes for that entire week. If he can't make the proper adjustments, it's simple, he won't play until he does.

I have to question exactly what Jordan Palmer and Adam Gase are teaching this kid, how can they not see these terrible habits for 3 years ? I mean they have too right ? 

[Greensleeves]

44 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Sure.  Fine.  Hyperbole.  Whatever.

We've seen what Sam Darnold is.  A bottom tier QB.

Overly aggressive adjectives aren't what are going to keep me from being excited to draft Lawrence (or Fields, who I may prefer).

No we haven't. We've seen Sam with the worst supporting cast and below average line and awful coaching and play calling. He's younger than Burrow and has the talent to be great with pro level receivers and a decent line, which is improving. All this Trevor Lawrence talk is much less likely to happen than Sam playing well in the next 10 or 11 games. We won't get the #1 pick - it's much harder to get than people think. When we have our full team out there we will win enough to make this pick out of our reach. Sam has everything you need in a QB - talent, attitude, leadership. Just give the kid some weapons and he can be really good for us. Now if it's week 13 and we're still right there, then all bets are off. If we're there we will take him. I'm hoping Sam gets his receivers back, we play great and lose to some really good teams and can use both #1 picks to solidify our team. 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

No we haven't. We've seen Sam with the worst supporting cast and below average line and awful coaching and play calling. He's younger than Burrow and has the talent to be great with pro level receivers and a decent line, which is improving. All this Trevor Lawrence talk is much less likely to happen than Sam playing well in the next 10 or 11 games. We won't get the #1 pick - it's much harder to get than people think. When we have our full team out there we will win enough to make this pick out of our reach. Sam has everything you need in a QB - talent, attitude, leadership. Just give the kid some weapons and he can be really good for us. Now if it's week 13 and we're still right there, then all bets are off. If we're there we will take him. I'm hoping Sam gets his receivers back, we play great and lose to some really good teams and can use both #1 picks to solidify our team. 

He sucks.  You wish he didn't.  I wish he didn't.  But, he does.

The team around him is bad, but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.  They're also not the reason he holds the ball to long, has poor footwork, bails on the pocket too soon, makes bad decisions, doesn't see open WRs, and misses them frequently when he does.  He's also in his third season, and shows no evidence he play a 16 game schedule.

He's the same player he was in college.  He's the same player he was the prior two years.

Sam Darnold is not good. 

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, Icer said:

The best move the Cardinals could have made, and we will all see why on Sunday. You don't pass on game changer QBs because of sunk cost

I'm not saying I disagree about the sunken coat thing.  If they know Darnold isn't the guy, then move in.

However Murray is an example of young QB syndrome.  Mayfield is another.

Murray in his first season looked great.  He looked like he was on his way to upper echelon QB status in no time.  But so far in his second year, he has not looked nearly as good.  Now obviously this is a strange year and still very early, but his play has been average this year.

Everyone seems to agree high level QB play is needed to win in the NFL.  It's easy to move on from guys like Darnold and Rosen who have been well below average, but how long should the Browns continue with Mayfield? He doesn't provide them high level QB play. 

I guess my overall point is with Young QBs people probably get too excited too quick when things go pretty well early, or get to fixated on what they are capable of doing, versus what they are doing.  I'm as guilty of it as anyone.  Especially with Darnold.

[joewilly12]

Sam Darnold gets what he deserves, holding onto the ball too long got him injured. 

[JiFtheOracle]

How are the 2 situations remotely comparable?  Rosen wasnt a week 1 starter as a rookie in Arizona, that was Sam Bradford.  Rosen wasnt given 3 years as the undisputed starter.  He was traded after year 1.  

The only comparison is they're both mega busts. 

[JiFtheOracle]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Sam Darnold gets what he deserves, holding onto the ball too long got him injured. 

[jetophile]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

why does everyone think this term is overused? the last generational talent everyone was talking about was Luck. 

It definitely is, at least peripherally. I've heard it for S. Barkley and Mahomes (100s of times) off the top of my head, but it'll take me a little while to think of some more because none of them are on the Jets. : /

[Smashmouth]

Here is Justin Fields showing great mechanics early in the video but terrible decision making in a big game vs a team that's competitive with Ohio State. No doubt Fields can hit wide open WR's all day long in college vs inferior opponents but can he do that in the pros ? Doubtful IMHO based on the plays he made vs Clemson in the video below. 

After watching a lot of film on both QB's (Lawrence and Fields) Lawrence is the  clear choice and its not even close. 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Here is Justin Fields showing great mechanics early in the video but terrible decision making in a big game vs a team that's competitive with Ohio State. No doubt Fields can hit wide open WR's all day long in college vs inferior opponents but can he do that in the pros ? Doubtful IMHO based on the plays he made vs Clemson in the video below. 

After watching a lot of film on both QB's (Lawrence and Fields) Lawrence is the  clear choice and its not even close. 

You should go to the draft forum where we are talking about this because I dont want to take over thread, I wholeheartedly disagree.  Maury posted footage from the Clemson vs Ohio St. game.  Each snap from both players.  Fields even with 3 INT's (2 his WR fell) was so much better it's alarming.  Accuracy, placement, progression, pocket presence. Lawrence was an absolute mess.  All over the place.  Inaccurate, terrible ball placement, terrible under pressure, bad decisions, staring down his first read, on and on, the only plays he made that game were with his leg.  He put up one of the worst championship performances I've ever seen vs. LSU.

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

You should go to the draft forum where we are talking about this because I dont want to take over thread, I wholeheartedly disagree.  Maury posted footage from the Clemson vs Ohio St. game.  Each snap from both players.  Fields even with 3 INT's (2 his WR fell) was so much better it's alarming.  Accuracy, placement, progression, pocket presence. Lawrence was an absolute mess.  All over the place.  Inaccurate, terrible ball placement, terrible under pressure, bad decisions, staring down his first read, on and on, the only plays he made that game were with his leg.  He put up one of the worst championship performances I've ever seen vs. LSU.

Ill go to the draft forum didn't want to hi jack but who won the game again ? 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ohio+state+clemson+2019&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS902US902&oq=ohio+stae+clemson+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3j46j0l3.7170j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11fm71_n4v;6;/m/012hfxch;tb1;fp;1;;

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

the biggest gamble by our worst GM....        and....   its not working out.....

sam is building his own resume....  its not pretty so far

Goff built his own resume.  And it wasn't pretty.  Until he got a good coach.  Tannehill, the same. 

Rosen looked bad right out of the starting gate.  Darnold demonstrated a lot of talent and potential.  He regressed due to bad coaching.

There is no way to evaluate Darnold under Gase.

Gase is a QB killer.  Gase is a team killer.  

Gase sucks

[Adoni Beast]

Barring a miraculous turnaround from Sam (whether his fault or not / fair or unfair) if we end up with the 1st pick, there’s no choice. Trevor Lawrence should be the pick and we can get a decent return on Sam.

If we’re not picking 1st, then I think and hope the new HC would see that Sam is a better talent with a better project than Fields or Lance and work to build around him. 

I don’t see the situation as black and white, Sam has to go! It’s all relative to what the alternatives are and who our coach is before making that decision. But Sam vs. Trevor, is in favor of Trevor hands down, regardless of HC.

[Jetsfan80]

13 starts vs. 30 starts.  It's not a close comparison at all. 

We've given Darnold more than enough time.  He sucks and can't stay healthy.  

[Jetsfan80]

53 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not saying I disagree about the sunken coat thing.  If they know Darnold isn't the guy, then move in.

However Murray is an example of young QB syndrome.  Mayfield is another.

Murray in his first season looked great.  He looked like he was on his way to upper echelon QB status in no time.  But so far in his second year, he has not looked nearly as good.  Now obviously this is a strange year and still very early, but his play has been average this year.

Everyone seems to agree high level QB play is needed to win in the NFL.  It's easy to move on from guys like Darnold and Rosen who have been well below average, but how long should the Browns continue with Mayfield? He doesn't provide them high level QB play. 

I guess my overall point is with Young QBs people probably get too excited too quick when things go pretty well early, or get to fixated on what they are capable of doing, versus what they are doing.  I'm as guilty of it as anyone.  Especially with Darnold.

 

Murray will turn things around in the final 12.  The mere fact that he had a great rookie season is reason enough to think that. 

Being infatuated with young QB's actually works much of the time.  Had the Cardinals honored the sunken cost with Rosen and held onto their Head Coach, they'd be in a similar position that we're in right now.  

The new QB might not work out.  But it's pretty easy to see when your current QB isn't working out and never will.  Keep drafting QB's until you find one.

[Obrien2Toon]

If this was a year when say guys like Winston and Mariota (good prospects at the time in their own right) were available, I’d probably say stick with Sam and build around him

but no way with a guy like Lawrence available

bye Sam 

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Learn the  game of football. 

If he threw the ball away there would be no reason for him to be tackled and thrown the ground like a rag doll. 

[HessStation]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

Because some used it for Darnold and it's being tossed around for Lawrence

i seriously never heard anyone reputable call Darnold nor anyone else in that class a generational talent. maybe Cam Newton when he came out. but besides that, in the modern age, i can’t recall it being so universal  except for Luck, and now Lawrence. 

[rangerous]

imo if lawrence is available with their pick they should take him.  nothing wrong with stockpiling assets.  but one thing will be sure and that is if lawrence is drafted by the jets he'll be coming into a better situation than darnold did even if gase is still the coach.  i don't think i'd trade up a spot or two to get him though.

[Beerfish]

Zona has drafted 10 olineman 2015, they used their 1st pick on their LT in 2015

They went and got hopkins for their QB.  they got a young smart innovative coach.

The jets drafted darnold and did nothing  before he was drafted have provided him with no help at all at Wr or TE  (actually downgrading WR)

they have the worst coach  and worst offensive coach  in the NFL.

I can see the jets dumping him but he will go elsewhere and do really well and unless mims suddenly gets healthy and good and unles early picks work out next year the new savior whether it be fields or lawernce will get ass kicked and look like sh*t.

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, Icer said:

The best move the Cardinals could have made, and we will all see why on Sunday. You don't pass on game changer QBs because of sunk cost

It also helps that his college coach came with him.

If you don't upgrade the offense, it doesn't matter who the next qb is.

[Spoot-Face]