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OL win rate

hmhertz

By hmhertz
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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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17 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

Jets OL pass block win rate

Today, 04:00 PM
 
Rich Cimini @RichCimini 48m
#Jets pass-block win rates through 4 games via @ESPNStatsInfo (positional rank): LT Mekhi Becton -- 94.6% (7th among OTs) LG Alex Lewis -- 82.3% (54) C Connor McGovern -- 85.6% (33) RG Greg Van Roten -- 91.1% (36) RT George Fant -- 82.3% (54)

No excuse for Sam Darnold to be holding onto the ball for so long. That is why his shoulder hurts. I understand our WR’s are very poor at gaining separation and some of the guys were forced into action and activated off the practice squad but it’s really simple...you just throw the ball away. 
 

The offensive line is far from perfect, hell, they’re far from good, but Sam has had opportunities to stand tall in the pocket early this year and he’s either missed the correct read & made a bad decision or his happy feet and paranoia has taken him out of position to make these pocket throws. They’ve also gotten some better push in the run game, especially when Becton is out there & they still can’t produce a home run play out of the rushing game(or even a 20+ yard run) because L Bell is washed, Gore is 87 years old and Perine hasn’t gotten enough snaps to flash.

The offensive sh*t storm we’re watching is coming from multiple angles(the QB, the coach, the WR core) and at times, that includes the OL, but the 2020 OL has given our skill position players a few more opportunities to do something positive and they just haven’t. 

so while the OL complaints are still warranted to some extent, I think the bigger picture shows a little more to the story.

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Lith

Lith

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Link to the ESPN article.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

Quinnen is top 10 in pass rush and run stop win rates among DTs.  As a team, we are 29th in pass block win rate. 25th run block.  Somehow they have us ranked 12th in pass rush & 3rd in run stop win rates.  Not waht I think I am seeing when I watch the team.

 

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BCJet

BCJet

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54 minutes ago, Young Jetty said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1314555929069842432?s=21

Exactly - great post.  Anyone who thinks Fant isnt playing well clearly doesnt watch the games.  The Jets happen to have great analytics guys like Michael Nania who do tons of breakdowns of individual players and Fant has played very well. 

What disappoints me the most about Darnold is that in spite of horrendous coaching, the OL has not played bad at all, so its simply not an excuse in 2020.  WRs, sure.  Coaching definitely. But hes been protected significantly better then 2019 and this OL will finish in the top 20 in the league - not elite, but more then enough.

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bitonti

bitonti

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I'll take this a step further and say the line wasn't really the problem last year either

If you can't beat a blitz, teams will blitz

Exactly - great post.  Anyone who thinks Fant isnt playing well clearly doesnt watch the games.  The Jets happen to have great analytics guys like Michael Nania who do tons of breakdowns of individual players and Fant has played very well. 
What disappoints me the most about Darnold is that in spite of horrendous coaching, the OL has not played bad at all, so its simply not an excuse in 2020.  WRs, sure.  Coaching definitely. But hes been protected significantly better then 2019 and this OL will finish in the top 20 in the league - not elite, but more then enough.


Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

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jgb

jgb

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14 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

No excuse for Sam Darnold to be holding onto the ball for so long. That is why his shoulder hurts. I understand our WR’s are very poor at gaining separation and some of the guys were forced into action and activated off the practice squad but it’s really simple...you just throw the ball away. 
 

The offensive line is far from perfect, hell, they’re far from good, but Sam has had opportunities to stand tall in the pocket early this year and he’s either missed the correct read & made a bad decision or his happy feet and paranoia has taken him out of position to make these pocket throws. They’ve also gotten some better push in the run game, especially when Becton is out there & they still can’t produce a home run play out of the rushing game(or even a 20+ yard run) because L Bell is washed, Gore is 87 years old and Perine hasn’t gotten enough snaps to flash.

The offensive sh*t storm we’re watching is coming from multiple angles(the QB, the coach, the WR core) and at times, that includes the OL, but the 2020 OL has given our skill position players a few more opportunities to do something positive and they just haven’t. 

so while the OL complaints are still warranted to some extent, I think the bigger picture shows a little more to the story.

 

 

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jgb

jgb

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8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The problem is Sam Darnold 

he's been the problem/solution for 3 years

watch Flacco ball out this week 

or at least keep both feet on the ground when he throws the ball 

 

JN paradox:

  • Say Darnold sucks = not a loyal fan
  • Say the 10 guys Darnold plays with on offense suck = loyal fan
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bitonti

bitonti

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Just now, jgb said:

JN paradox:

  • Believe Darnold is a bust = not a loyal fan
  • Believe the 10 guys Darnold plays with on offense suck = loyal fan.

yeah ... also the logic of "QB is everything" that everyone ate up prior to the Darnold pick goes out the window right after the pick 

if this guy is REALLY worth 3 second round picks and quenton nelson he has to elevate the 10 bums around him from day 1 

instead his mistakes actually poison the well 

I can't believe I'm actually about to say this but it's gotten to the point where Darnold is holding back the evaluation of every other player on the team, and possibly the head coach 

not to say Gase is some kind of genius but even he isn't this bad 

the all-22 show so many wide open receivers and Sam either not seeing them or worse tucking it and trying to run 

 

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Lith

Lith

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12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The problem is Sam Darnold 

he's been the problem/solution for 3 years

watch Flacco ball out this week 

or at least keep both feet on the ground when he throws the ball 

 

Sadly, I agree with this.  Sam may not have great weapons or a great OL, but there have been so many plays this year, where he has had a clean pocket, and an open receiver, but he does not seem to see the field.  He locks on to his primay, holds the ball too long, bails out of the pocket too early..  He has been a mess back there.  We may not win, but I expect the offense to find a rhythym and look better with an experienced vet back there tomorrow.

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jgb

jgb

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9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yeah ... also the logic of "QB is everything" that everyone ate up prior to the Darnold pick goes out the window right after the pick 

if this guy is REALLY worth 3 second round picks and quenton nelson he has to elevate the 10 bums around him from day 1 

instead his mistakes actually poison the well 

I can't believe I'm actually about to say this but it's gotten to the point where Darnold is holding back the evaluation of every other player on the team, and possibly the head coach 

not to say Gase is some kind of genius but even he isn't this bad 

the all-22 show so many wide open receivers and Sam either not seeing them or worse tucking it and trying to run 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Lith said:

Sadly, I agree with this.  Sam may not have great weapons or a great OL, but there have been so many plays this year, where he has had a clean pocket, and an open receiver, but he does not seem to see the field.  He locks on to his primay, holds the ball too long, bails out of the pocket too early..  He has been a mess back there.  We may not win, but I expect the offense to find a rhythym and look better with an experienced vet back there tomorrow.

No! He cannot be evaluated until he is tested in a laboratory with all independent variables controlled against prime Drew Brees. Only then is it fair to make a decision on him!!

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CTM

CTM

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17 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Don’t get these. 85% seems good. But ranked in the 30s? That seems very poor. 
 

Which is it?!

Not familiar with the stat but if your line allows backfield pressure 15% of the time that would make it hard to run an offense or sustain drives. That's essentially 1 of every 6 plays potentially busted 

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

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16 hours ago, Lith said:

Link to the ESPN article.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

Quinnen is top 10 in pass rush and run stop win rates among DTs.  As a team, we are 29th in pass block win rate. 25th run block.  Somehow they have us ranked 12th in pass rush & 3rd in run stop win rates.  Not waht I think I am seeing when I watch the team.

 

Generally speaking the stats (both traditional and advanced) are much, much kinder to the defense than what I've been seeing with my own eyes. I'd argue they've been just as bad as the offense when the game is still within reach.

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Losmeister

Losmeister

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great thing about beinge a FOOTBALL fan is you watch other games.

see Qbs throiwng and making completions with a DB right on the guys hip, but they make small window throws..just to the OTHER side and leading the intended target. Sam will not EVEN ATTEMPT these throws the majority of the time b/c he is nt accurate enough....or when he fails JN says...   th eguys wasnt open...   so eager to accept seeing the football bounce around the turf and Sam mope over to the SL as we getthe punt unit on...

 

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Losmeister

Losmeister

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45 minutes ago, CTM said:

Not familiar with the stat but if your line allows backfield pressure 15% of the time that would make it hard to run an offense or sustain drives. That's essentially 1 of every 6 plays potentially busted 

That assumes that a QB cannot handle ANY pressure. Making throws under pressure is, like, the NFL.

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Losmeister

Losmeister

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46 minutes ago, CTM said:

Not familiar with the stat but if your line allows backfield pressure 15% of the time that would make it hard to run an offense or sustain drives. That's essentially 1 of every 6 plays potentially busted 

so giving your QB a GOOD chance to complete %83 is not high enough???

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

JN paradox:

  • Say Darnold sucks = not a loyal fan
  • Say the 10 guys Darnold plays with on offense suck = loyal fan

Because fans all understand that without a QB you're nothing.  Sure, there are short-lived stints in the course of an NFL season where people think "ground & pound" is back or whatever.  But even for run-first/defense-first teams you still need a QB to be a contender.

So, when presented with the options of believing the QB sucks OR everyone else being the problem, most fans will choose the latter every time, for as long as possible.  Because getting emotionally invested in someone being a franchise QB only to have that come crashing down is simply unacceptable.  Having to dump that sunken cost and move on to a new QB (only to potentially see the cycle happen all over again) is equally unacceptable. 

It's far easier to live in a fantasy world where the QB is the real deal and all it takes is fixing the entire roster and coaching staff to make that so.  There are still people around these parts who think Mark Sanchez was the real deal, even though 4 other organizations rejected him and he was out of the league by the age of 28.  

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Losmeister

Losmeister

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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

believing the QB sucks OR everyone else being the problem, most fans will choose the latter every time, for as long as possible.  Because getting emotionally invested in someone being a franchise QB only to have that come crashing down is simply unacceptable.  Having to dump that sunken cost and move on to a new QB (only to potentially see the cycle happen all over again) is equally unacceptable. 

 

denial

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CTM

CTM

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2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

so giving your QB a GOOD chance to complete %83 is not high enough???

Well, simplisticly speaking if a QB can complete 70% of passes from a clean pocket, 70% of 83% = 58% overall completion rate, which is terrible.

Our qb cant complete 70% of course cause he sucks so I'm not using this to say they are holding Darnold back, just that 15% fail rate for an oline isnt good either 

 

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