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Who Else is Just Hanging Out Watching Our Future Franchise QB?


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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So we're going to blindly bank on a Freshman who hasn't seen the field yet to be "the guy" 2-3 years from now?  

You also mention Burrow.  Should the Bengals have passed on him to continue to build their roster up?  Their team was terrible in 2019 after all, en route to a 2-14 record.  Was it a bad call for them to take Burrow there instead of trading down?

You can continue to disagree all you want but its really not the way GM's think, nor should they.  They evaluate these QB's over several years and project out future classes, yes, but they don't wait if they really like a prospect.  Nor should they.  You can't bank on a future class having a QB you'll like more.  Historically, the evidence doesn't really support that being the case.

The only reason Douglas should trade down is IF he doesn't like the QB's in this class much.  That seems unlikely.  There's a lot to like about the top 3 QB's in this class.

Troy Aikman #1 pick 1989 rookie season

1989 Dallas Cowboys 1-15

The rest is NFL folklore.

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7 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

In fact, it’s the most sure-fire route to failure. These days, we want immediate gratification from our young QBs, otherwise they immediately get labeled as “suck”. Look no further than a still young Darnold who got saddled with Gase and the worst roster in football. But of course for him, those are just “excuses”.

So why the **** would we do the exact same thing with Lawrence? 

Mentioning immediate gratification on a Jets messageboard... that’s rich.

Jets have consistently been one of the worst teams in the league for 10 years. We’ve drafted what once in top 3 and we had to trade an arm and a leg to get there? This year we are gonna get there without trading up. Who knows when this comes again.

I hate this “you gotta have X before you can improve Y” arguments. We may debate here constantly about whether it is Sam or his weaponzzz but the professionals know good QBs make their own weapons and elevate teams. 

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Some of you guys are freaking nuts! If you have the #1 pick & pass on another 5 year rookie deal on a player that is way more experienced than Darnold with the ammunition we have to surround Trevor with talent your crazy! 

You take Lawrence, you'll have Seattles #1 & you trade Darnold to the NFC, you maneuver to also draft Ettiene, you've already signed 1 of these 3 guys, Stanley, Thuney or Scherff whichever one pops free, you've already added Juju Smith or Allen Robinson. 

You still have an entire draft from 2-7, you've only signed 2 free agents, and your offense now has Mims, Juju or Robinson, Crowder, Jeff Smith, V. Smith & Barrios. Ettiene & Perine in the backfield, and you've still got a sh*t ton of coin from cutting Bell & only inking 2 free agents. 

Thats a huge jump in talent compared to where we sat after trading up for Darnold. And, we still have 2 firsts in 2022. JD has a plan its called patience which is difficult form fan base watching crap for 10 years. 

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

Mentioning immediate gratification on a Jets messageboard... that’s rich.

Jets have consistently been one of the worst teams in the league for 10 years. We’ve drafted what once in top 3 and we had to trade an arm and a leg to get there? This year we are gonna get there without trading up. Who knows when this comes again.

I hate this “you gotta have X before you can improve Y” arguments. We may debate here constantly about whether it is Sam or his weaponzzz but the professionals know good QBs make their own weapons and elevate teams. 

No, elite QBs with years of experience do that. To my knowledge, good young QBs in bad situations do not, unless you can name me a few.

I’m on record saying that we should draft Lawrence if we don’t need to trade up to get him, but my reasoning is more about resetting the cost of the QB for the next 4 years. But the point I was making in that post is that good QBs need time to develop into great or elite QBs under the right circumstances. If we’re going to continue with Gase and picking DL in the first three rounds every year and then judge the QB under those circumstances, then it’s pointless to discuss Lawrence or Fields or any other QB, because they’ll all flame out just the same. 

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8 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

No, elite QBs with years of experience do that. To my knowledge, good young QBs in bad situations do not, unless you can name me a few.

I’m on record saying that we should draft Lawrence if we don’t need to trade up to get him, but my reasoning is more about resetting the cost of the QB for the next 4 years. But the point I was making in that post is that good QBs need time to develop into great or elite QBs under the right circumstances. If we’re going to continue with Gase and picking DL in the first three rounds every year and then judge the QB under those circumstances, then it’s pointless to discuss Lawrence or Fields or any other QB, because they’ll all flame out just the same. 

Good, experienced QBs don't hatch from eggs fully-formed. They start as those young guys.

They also rarely become available as FAs before they are 35 or so. I banged table for Tannehill, which many will probably now falsely claim they agreed with, and was absolutely eviscerated for it on this board. No one agreed with me that I can recall. Wish we had got Cam Newton also but he never would've come here even if we wanted him (and there are no signs we did).

 

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There is no doubt that Darnold has proven nothing but when
I watch Lawrence in Clemson's offense he reminds me of
Darnold in USC:

- Taking snaps out of the "pistol position"
- A ton of RPO's
- Out of the RPO's, quick horizontal throws and slants
- Occasional QB runs
- Accuracy
- Strong arm

The one difference I see is Lawrence deep ball accuracy 
seems better.  I believe the problem with Darnold is
coaching, he was better in 2018 with Bates than he's
ever been with Gase.  I can understand if Douglas moves
on from Darnold but is he really the problem? 

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

hate this “you gotta have X before you can improve Y” arguments. We may debate here constantly about whether it is Sam or his weaponzzz but the professionals know good QBs make their own weapons and elevate teams. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All we need to do is surround Sam with 21 all pros and  hall of fame coaching staff and look out league

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13 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Then it’s probably too late for Darnold.  Who played, what, only 3 years of QB prior to the NFL.  Can we name a single success story with such limited reps?

No, I can’t. And it’s something I actually agree with and was concerned about when we drafted him (hint: Darnold was not the guy I wanted when we were on the clock). I also said in the below thread yesterday that although I’m not as high on Lawrence as others are, just the sheer volume of reps lifts his floor higher than Darnold’s was when he was coming out.

 

Posters want to label me a Darnold fanboy to make it easier on them, but the truth is: 

- I wasn’t sold on him when we drafted him (I started a thread titled: Sell me on Darnold, for which I ate a ton of snark and buttfumbles) 

- I fell in love with him near the end of 2018 when he looked like a FQB in multiple games to end the season

- I hated the Gase hire even before it was made

- I believe any QB; even the Peytons and Lucks of the draft, need time to develop in the right situation. Barring that, they’ll fail. I welcome anyone to give me an example of a QB who “made” it without having that luxury.

So if we’re going to pick Lawrence (who I’m not sold on) at #1 (which is the right move btw), and we’re going to hire another moron at HC/OC and continue to pick DL early every year, then I’ll be ready to defend Lawrence two years from now when you inevitably tell me that he sucks and we need to move on - just like I’m currently defending Darnold. 

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9 minutes ago, CTM said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All we need to do is surround Sam with 21 all pros and  hall of fame coaching staff and look out league

That would be ideal. Then we’d finally be able to evaluate him.

In the meantime though, how’s the alternative working out for us? We should keep on with Gase and continue drafting 1 OL every 8 years? 

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Makes sense that you were unable to understand. Not all of us are able to see Tannehill’s shiny 2018 CBPOTY trophy. 

I've known you a long time. I was joking. You are too sensitive. That is what makes sense. Ta ta.

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11 hours ago, Mogglez said:

According to NFL.com, we pick first if the season ended today.  What gives?

Go to tankathon.com.

It takes into account all the criteria including all the tie-breakers. We currently are third, behind the Falcons and the Giants,

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11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I do not rate lawrence as a can;t miss guy, hes played a half dozen games in his career in which his team did not have the massive talent over load.

Toss him onto the present jets and he will get just as killed as any other Qb on this talentless adrift team.

I'm not backing off on my assertion that we would be better off if we get pick #1 to trade down if a huge deal is there. 

Build the team and then look for the next QB in a couple of years.  And there are viable QBs in almost every single draft.

I am leaning towards this. I said they should take Trevor because I’m 100% done with Sam and I know most fans would want Trevor. Drafting a QB although popular, wouldn’t really be the right move. The Jets are just way too far behind and have such a terrible roster that they need to start with the basics.
 

The culture and reputation are at an all time low and once you have a rookie QB, that narrow window starts to close.  I’d prefer a cheap vet QB to help coach up all the rookies on offense and speed up their development.
 

The Jets are actually THAT bad and can’t use free agency for anything because of their reputation. If you are stuck building almost purely through the draft, you need an insane amount of top draft picks. 

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1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Yeah, after almost 40 years as a fan, I'd be mentally checked out under this plan. It would probably be over for me.

Ever wonder why we have sucked for 40 years other than a bit of good play here and there?

The few rays of fun play by the Jets have been in situations where the QB was not a huge difference maker, mark sanchexz bad QB who came to a pre built team and low and behold we almost made it to the super bowl.

Stick trevor lawrence on this team and what is different from when darnold got brought in?  We have no talent anywhere and are years away from doing anything no matter who you put at qb.

You can effect a quick build if you have lots of draft resources, trade the pick, along with the adams deal you have a team in two years with good talent through out the roster.  (Assuming the egm is good like we hope).

Then get your QB there will be hot prospects there as hot as lawernce.

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15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Ever wonder why we have sucked for 40 years other than a bit of good play here and there?

The few rays of fun play by the Jets have been in situations where the QB was not a huge difference maker, mark sanchexz bad QB who came to a pre built team and low and behold we almost made it to the super bowl.

Stick trevor lawrence on this team and what is different from when darnold got brought in?  We have no talent anywhere and are years away from doing anything no matter who you put at qb.

You can effect a quick build if you have lots of draft resources, trade the pick, along with the adams deal you have a team in two years with good talent through out the roster.  (Assuming the egm is good like we hope).

Then get your QB there will be hot prospects there as hot as lawernce.

This all makes complete sense, but I'm just telling you where I'd be emotionally, which has nothing to do with sense.

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31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He doesn't know how to take a joke.  Never has.  Every single thing is so super serious.

Ya, I noticed. I called for Tannehill to get CBPOY in 2018. He got hurt. I rolled my prediction to 2019. Success. Yet he loves to claim that was a miss when everyone else in the world was calling Tannehill trash. Interesting how that is "a miss" while we have people on JN not ready to admit being wrong calling for Geno and Sam to be FQBs.

Sometimes being right just has to be its own reward.

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6 hours ago, jgb said:

I've known you a long time. I was joking. You are too sensitive. That is what makes sense. Ta ta.

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He doesn't know how to take a joke.  Never has.  Every single thing is so super serious.

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Ya, I noticed. I called for Tannehill to get CBPOY in 2018. He got hurt. I rolled my prediction to 2019. Success. Yet he loves to claim that was a miss when everyone else in the world was calling Tannehill trash. Interesting how that is "a miss" while we have people on JN not ready to admit being wrong calling for Geno and Sam to be FQBs.

Sometimes being right just has to be its own reward.

So when I respond with something you guys don’t like, you retroactively call your post a joke and call me sensitive? I’d counter that me calling Tannehill the 2018 cbpoty was also a joke, one which jgb didn’t like, called me sensitive, responded with “ta ta”, and then engaged in talking about how sensitive I am with another poster. He started a thread on a Jets site about how a dolphins QB would win an award, and I joked about it, but I’m the sensitive one? 

Hows this: I’m sensitive. Happy? I’m here to discuss Jets football, not decipher which of your snarky remarks to me are jokes and which aren’t. You two post all of your opinions as fact and have like 50k posts between you. Both of you have given me many up votes and funny emojis over the years. I’ve engaged in many joke threads and had a good time on this forum. So I’d counter that the few times I’m “being sensitive” are probably because your feelings are hurt when I call you on your bullsh*t, but how’s this: If you think I’m too serious for your hilarious sh*t, then either don’t engage with me, or use the ignore function.

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Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

So when I respond with something you guys don’t like, you retroactively call your post a joke and call me sensitive? I’d counter that me calling Tannehill the 2018 cbpoty was also a joke, one which jgb didn’t like, called me sensitive, responded with “ta ta”, and then engaged in talking about how sensitive I am with another poster. He started a thread on a Jets site about how a dolphins QB would win an award, and I joked about it, but I’m the sensitive one? 

Hows this: I’m sensitive. Happy? I’m here to discuss Jets football, not decipher which of your snarky remarks to me are jokes and which aren’t. You two post all of your opinions as fact and have like 50k posts between you. Both of you have given me many up votes and funny emojis over the years. I’ve engaged in many joke threads and had a good time on this forum. So I’d counter that the few times I’m “being sensitive” are probably because your feelings are hurt when I call you on your bullsh*t, but how’s this: If you think I’m too serious for your hilarious sh*t, then either don’t engage with me, or use the ignore function.

Don't think this post is doing you any favors in shaking that histrionic label.

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6 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

No, I can’t. And it’s something I actually agree with and was concerned about when we drafted him (hint: Darnold was not the guy I wanted when we were on the clock). I also said in the below thread yesterday that although I’m not as high on Lawrence as others are, just the sheer volume of reps lifts his floor higher than Darnold’s was when he was coming out.

 

@TeddEY - someone just upvoted this post of mine from 5 days ago which reminded me that I also posted this as well...posting to show you that I certainly agree with what you’re saying about reps. My point is that not all reps are created equal, and Lawrence will suffer the same fate as Darnold if his reps also come under similar circumstances.

 

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’m aware, but then nothing’s going to shake that histrionic label with you if you’re not open to it, right? If we’re being honest.

Make the next round a water and try to make your point again in 15 minutes. Not understanding what you're going on about.

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2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

@TeddEY - someone just upvoted this post of mine from 5 days ago which reminded me that I also posted this as well...posting to show you that I certainly agree with what you’re saying about reps. My point is that not all reps are created equal, and Lawrence will suffer the same fate as Darnold if his reps also come under similar circumstances.

 

By no means do I think you're a Darnold fanboy.  We both agree that no QB would be "successful" here right now.  However, I think we disagree on what that means.  I think there's plenty of room to see a good QB in a bad situation, and I think it would look a lot different.  I think we'd lose games, but he'd take advantage of the limited opportunities he got.  Darnold doesn't do that.  That's the whole story in my view.

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