How Good is Mahomes if the Jets Picked Him?

[Barry McCockinner]

No doubt it was an all time Jets draft blunder, passing on Mahomes. I'm curious what people think Mahomes would be if the Jets had taken him in 2017. 

For quick reference, the Jets roster/coaching staff. from 2017-2019:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2017_roster.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2018_roster.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2019_roster.htm

Obviously it's subjective and there's no right or wrong answer. There's a lot of moving parts too. The Jets get draft picks back, would Bowles still be around?

I think it comes down to how much you believe coaching and supporting cast matter. How much stock do you put into QB development or are they just who they are?

[UntouchableCrew]

I think he pans out and is viewed as a quality starter but I'd be surprised if he was viewed as an elite MVP caliber guy if you traded the Chiefs coaching and talent for the Jets.

Andy Reid makes zeroes look good at QB. The Jets can't seem to make anyone look good at QB.

[southtown24th]

out of the league

[Icer]

He's too good to have been ruined, but I suspect he'd be seen as a Matt Ryan type, putting up gaudy numbers but losing.

[sciond]

Hackenberg 2.0

[TuscanyTile2]

You can't ask me this question during the game.  My negativity tends to spike during those ~3 hours.

[shawn306]

He is in the Andy Dalton, Ryan Fitzpatrick class,

ok, but not great

[Lupz27]

48 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

No doubt it was an all time Jets draft blunder, passing on Mahomes. I'm curious what people think Mahomes would be if the Jets had taken him in 2017. 

For quick reference, the Jets roster/coaching staff. from 2017-2019:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2017_roster.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2018_roster.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2019_roster.htm

Obviously it's subjective and there's no right or wrong answer. There's a lot of moving parts too. The Jets get draft picks back, would Bowles still be around?

I think it comes down to how much you believe coaching and supporting cast matter. How much stock do you put into QB development or are they just who they are?

Even the Jets couldn’t ruin GOD!

[Irish Jet]

He would still be elite. Anyone saying otherwise doesn't watch him regularly. His play doesn't overly rely on talent around him - He can improvise better than anyone and can throw WR's open better than anyone. His accuracy is ludicrous and he doesn't need a settled pocket to step into to make the plays. He's going to be the greatest of all time.

So yeah. Not as good as KC because they're perfect for him but he would still be Mahomes. 

[Barry McCockinner]

29 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

He is in the Andy Dalton, Ryan Fitzpatrick class,

ok, but not great

@Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80]

34 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

He is in the Andy Dalton, Ryan Fitzpatrick class,

ok, but not great

lol

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Andy Reid makes zeroes look good at QB. 

This is exactly the reason why people should recognize Mahomes' excellence.  Alex Smith had just come off a career year, yet Reid saw fit to trade up for Mahomes and then get rid of Smith.  Reid knew there was something special about Mahomes.  He probably didn't see GOAT potential, but he saw enough to say Mahomes was "the guy".

Mahomes would be a top 5 QB anywhere he ended up.  

[BROOKLYN JET]

Out of the league good.

[ryu79]

Fans here would tear him apart for throwing off base when receivers drop them. 

[UntouchableCrew]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This is exactly the reason why people should recognize Mahomes' excellence.  Alex Smith had just come off a career year, yet Reid saw fit to trade up for Mahomes and then get rid of Smith.  Reid knew there was something special about Mahomes.  He probably didn't see GOAT potential, but he saw enough to say Mahomes was "the guy".
 

Agree.

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Mahomes would be a top 5 QB anywhere he ended up.  

Don't necessarily agree with this. I'm a big believer that QB situation is extremely important. Mahomes has great talent but he definitely benefitted from Andy Reid and that coaching staff, and a talented offense with guys like Hill, Kelce, Watkins, and a good offensive line. I also suspect he benefited from sitting for a year behind Smith.

He's clearly uber talented and I think he'd be regarded as a "good" QB anywhere. I'm not at all convinced he'd be perceived as a top 5 QB had he gone to garbage franchise with no idea how to develop a QB like the Jets or Browns.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Agree.

Don't necessarily agree with this. I'm a big believer that QB situation is extremely important. Mahomes has great talent but he definitely benefitted from Andy Reid and that coaching staff, and a talented offense with guys like Hill, Kelce, Watkins, and a good offensive line. I also suspect he benefited from sitting for a year behind Smith.

He's clearly uber talented and I think he'd be regarded as a "good" QB anywhere. I'm not at all convinced he'd be perceived as a top 5 QB had he gone to garbage franchise with no idea how to develop a QB like the Jets or Browns.

 

Situation matters.  But that's just how good  Mahomes is.  He's on a GOAT path with KC.  Saying he'd be "merely top 5" here would actually be a huge tumble from the top for him.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Situation matters.  But that's just how good  Mahomes is.  He's on a GOAT path with KC.  Saying he'd be "merely top 5" here would actually be a huge tumble from the top for him.

It's possible. I frankly just can't fathom the Jets having a top 5 QB with what the team has been the last four years.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It's possible. I frankly just can't fathom the Jets having a top 5 QB with what the team has been the last four years.

You can't fathom that because no GM we've had in decades, if ever, would have made the bold decision to take Mahomes in the first place.  And the last time we had one essentially fall into our laps, he decided to stay in school instead (Peyton).  

Air Raid QB's are inherently risky but Reid saw through the BS and knew Mahomes would be good.  That takes a skillful analytical eye.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can't fathom that because no GM we've had in decades, if ever, would have made the bold decision to take Mahomes in the first place.  

Air Raid QB's are inherently risky but Reid saw through the BS and knew Mahomes would be good.  That takes a skillful analytical eye.

Or a guy who knows how to get the most out of that talent because he's a brilliant coach.

Seriously -- is Mahomes a top 5 QB in this Adam Gase offense? With Frank Gore, Jeff Smith, and Braxton Berrios? Even if we had the brillaince to take him?

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Or a guy who knows how to get the most out of that talent because he's a brilliant coach.

Seriously -- is Mahomes a top 5 QB in this Adam Gase offense? With Frank Gore, Jeff Smith, and Braxton Berrios? Even if we had the brillaince to take him?

Then why didn't he just stick with Alex Smith, since Smith was a top 12 QB in the league under Reid?

As for the 2nd part, uh, keep in mind, if we drafted Mahomes, Bowles/Bates would still be here, not Gase....

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then why didn't he just stick with Alex Smith, since Smith was a top 12 QB in the league under Reid?

As for the 2nd part, uh, keep in mind, if we drafted Mahomes, Bowles/Bates would still be here, not Gase....

1) Your point isn't mutually exclusive with mine. His greatness in getting career high play in Smith doesn't change what Smith is, nor does it have anything to do with going after an upgrade.

2) That's an assumption, but same applies to Bates, Elijah McGuire, Deontay Burnett, etc. I think he'd be good but  think top 5 is far from a given.

[Barry McCockinner]

42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then why didn't he just stick with Alex Smith, since Smith was a top 12 QB in the league under Reid?

As for the 2nd part, uh, keep in mind, if we drafted Mahomes, Bowles/Bates would still be here, not Gase....

Alex Smith is a qb with a very limited ceiling. That's obvious to most. I don't think Reid taking a QB while smith is on the roster is very telling.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Alex Smith is a qb with a very limited ceiling. That's obvious to most. I don't think Reid taking a QB while smith is on the roster is very telling.

Perhaps not.  But getting rid of Smith after a career year to install Mahomes as the starter WAS very telling. 

He received quite a bit of criticism at the time.  "Mahomes is a complete unknown!  What is Reid doing!"

[CTM]

Same guy, eventually. Maybe not as fast a start but he'd get there

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

He would still be elite. Anyone saying otherwise doesn't watch him regularly. His play doesn't overly rely on talent around him - He can improvise better than anyone and can throw WR's open better than anyone. His accuracy is ludicrous and he doesn't need a settled pocket to step into to make the plays. He's going to be the greatest of all time.

So yeah. Not as good as KC because they're perfect for him but he would still be Mahomes. 

He's a phenom,  more talented than Rodgers , who was the previous most talented QB I'd seen

[Irish Jet]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

He's a phenom,  more talented than Rodgers , who was the previous most talented QB I'd seen

Rodgers may actually have been better but Mahomes is in the right era to be considered the GOAT. 

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

Same guy, eventually. Maybe not as fast a start but he'd get there

Eventually after the Jets moved on to the next sacraficial lamb?

[Welp]

He look like how he’d look in this Raiders game all the time

[More Cowbell]

Unless we drafted Andy Reid to coach him, he would be thought of as another in a long line of QB screw ups. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then why didn't he just stick with Alex Smith, since Smith was a top 12 QB in the league under Reid?

As for the 2nd part, uh, keep in mind, if we drafted Mahomes, Bowles/Bates would still be here, not Gase....

Bowles would still be fired. Not even Mahomes could make Bowles look like a HC