Darkest Hour Before The Dawn?

[TuscanyTile2]

I didn't know this but apparently the turning point for the NY Giants was the infamous Joe Pisarcek fumble/Herman Edwards TD against the Eagles.  After that, the commish stepped in and helped them choose George Young.  They completely turned their franchise around and won 2 Superbowls within 10 years (and 4 within 30 years).

Maybe (MAYBE!) we can actually do something like that for once.  I'm a big fan of Sam but I'm not passing up Trevor Lawrence should we be in position to draft him.  Yes we're a mess overall (with the exception of Becton, Quinnen, and Crowder) but if we can actually get a young John Elway (which is what Trevor has been compared to) here then we might have the key piece to turn things around.  Admittedly, I thought the same thing about Sam (and I still think Sam will be a FQB somewhere) but Trevor is considered a generational prospect (whereas I don't think Sam was considered to be quite in that rarefied air).

[Patriot Killa]

Nothing changes until we find a head coach who can cultivate his skill set and win games. Nothing changes until JD understands the importance of flooding the offense with capable offensive playmakers. 

[munchmemory]

"Darkest Hour Before The Dawn?"

Now said in each of the last six decades.

[football guy]

I know this seems like a regurgitated message that Jets fans have grown far too accustomed to, but amid all this madness, I just wanted to point out a few things for fans to look forward to as we move forward... 

Most important: Contrary to media pundit speculation, the Jets job will be highly attractive. 

1. The Jets are virtually guaranteed to have a young, talented franchise-caliber QB prospect on the roster in 2021. Whether it will be Sam Darnold, Trevor Lawrence, or whoever, the Jets are virtually guaranteed to enter next year with a talented young QB. Obviously opinions are split on who that player will be, but let's not compare Darnold to a total bust just yet. Many reputable NFL experts around the league vouch for the player, he has shown us an ability to make elite plays, and he's only 23 years old. He is a prime candidate to improve immensely outside of a Gase offense- which clearly does not fit his skillset. He has the rest of the season to turn around his play, and if he doesn't the Jets will likely have the top pick. Then it will be decision time, but either way, the Jets will not be entering next season with a lack of a QB or a veteran stop-gap scenario.
2. The Jets will have stability at General Manager for at least 2 more seasons. We all know the stories about how respected Joe Douglas is as a talent evaluator. He's used the means and resources he's had to add guys. He's made some mistakes (letting Robby Anderson walk among the worst of them), but he's also made some major additions: Becton-who looks like he can be a HOF talent; JFM-who has quietly been amongst the best interior pass rushers in the NFL; Fant-a FA find who looks like a stable starting NFL tackle; Lewis-a serviceable LG who at worst serves as a top reliable backup; Ficken-most accurate kicker in the NFL. To judge him for the rest of his 1st draft this early would be foolish- 7 of 9 players have dealt with injury, limited offseason due to pandemic, no pre-season, etc.  Whether you disagree with Adams being traded is a personal preference, but the deal itself has been unanimously lauded given how much the Jets received in return.  Douglas will have 4.5 more years on his contract (and 4 drafts) at season's end. That amount of time aligns perfectly with the next HC, who will likely sign a 4 year deal unless it's a superstar candidate. If they both failed miserably, they would be fired beginning 2023. More likely, they would get until 2024 (3 years for HC) before the team made an ultimatum. 
3. The Jets have the most robust draft capital they've had since the 2000 NFL Draft. This can't be understated. Over the next 2 seasons, the Jets have four-1st round picks, two-2nd round picks, and three-3rd round picks. The last time the Jets had anything close to that over a two year span? 2000, when the Jets had five-1sts, a 2nd, and two-3rds. Obviously hitting on the picks is important, but having more picks increases the likelihood of success, and it increases the attractiveness of the job. 
4. The Jets will have close to $90 million in cap space, which projects as 3rd most in the NFL. People can speculate how the money will be used and if it matters, but here are the facts: Jets cash spending is amongst the lowest in the NFL in 2020, and it will be the lowest in the NFL in 2021. Contrary to speculation, the Jets are not "poor"- if there was any spending limit imposed on Douglas, it had little to do with Douglas and more to do with taking a year off after spending major dollars in 2019, as well as to force Gase to coach out the year and prove his worth before going on another spending spree in 2021. Fact is they have to spend the money by rule, and the only noteworthy Jets player who is due for an extension in 2021-2022 other than Marcus Maye ('21), Jamison Crowder ('22), John Franklin-Myers ('21), and Foley Fatukasi ('21). Bottom-line: for better or worse, the Jets will be big spenders, and that always has attracted coaching candidates. 
5. If Woody Johnson returns, it may not as bad as an owner as you think. I know I'll catch some flack for this one, but hear me out. Woody Johnson took over the team in 2001 and left in 2017. During that span, the Jets went 123-133 and made the playoffs 6 times in 17 seasons. While not satisfactory, the Jets also never had back-to-back losing seasons under his ownership (the Jets are on their way to 4 losing seasons in a row). He hired 5 Head Coaches: Al Groh (who resigned after 1 season), Herm Edwards (5 seasons), Eric Mangini (3 seasons), Rex Ryan (6 seasons), and Todd Bowles (ultimately 4 seasons). For all the negative press and the ups-and-downs, Woody Johnson was always known to be an enabler who demands the best out of his employees (NYT). He was also respected enough among the NFL to be nominated to the 8-man committee to anoint the successor to Paul Tagliabue for NFL Commissioner, and was a major player in CBA negotiations. Say what you want about him meddling in personnel affairs (i.e. trading for Favre, signing Revis in FA) and his GM selections/hierarchy structure post-Tannenbaum (Idzik, Maccagnan), and the team's inability to find sustainability, but to say that people around the NFL view him as a bad owner because of his lack of relationships with players is simply a sensationalized concept. His biggest flaw was that his desire to win and make splash moves to increase PR prevented the Jets from truly tearing down and rebuilding the team. The Jets are undergoing that process, and furthermore, they have a respected GM locked up who seems to have the right priorities (building through the draft, building from the LOS outwards). Contrary to popular belief, Woody Johnson potentially returning may come at the perfect time and could promote a welcomed change. Whereas Christopher Johnson has established a better relationship with the players yet has become complacent with losing as a means of rebuilding, Woody brings back an edginess and re-establishes a tone, attitude, and agenda that losing is not tolerated. 

 

Again, I'll quote The Dark Knight/Thomas Fuller: the darkest hour is just before dawn.

Even if we are facing possibly the worst of circumstances in franchise history (at least the worst in my 21 years following the team) there is hope in the near-future. 

[joewilly12]

46 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Nothing changes until we find a head coach who can cultivate his skill set and win games. Nothing changes until JD understands the importance of flooding the offense with capable offensive playmakers. 

Both good points but for me its Woody Johnson selling the team to an owner who at least understands the game of football. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

Even if we are facing possibly the worst of circumstances in franchise history (at least the worst in my 21 years following the team) there is hope in the near-future. 

The NY Jets haven't won anything since 1969, do the calculations thats 51 years and counting.................

[jeremy2020]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

Again, I'll quote The Dark Knight/Thomas Fuller: the darkest hour is just before dawn.

IT's been one reaaaaaallly long hour

[JetFreak89]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I didn't know this but apparently the turning point for the NY Giants was the infamous Joe Pisarcek fumble/Herman Edwards TD against the Eagles.  After that, the commish stepped in and helped them choose George Young.  They completely turned their franchise around and won 2 Superbowls within 10 years (and 4 within 30 years).

Maybe (MAYBE!) we can actually do something like that for once.  I'm a big fan of Sam but I'm not passing up Trevor Lawrence should we be in position to draft him.  Yes we're a mess overall (with the exception of Becton, Quinnen, and Crowder) but if we can actually get a young John Elway (which is what Trevor has been compared to) here then we might have the key piece to turn things around.  Admittedly, I thought the same thing about Sam (and I still think Sam will be a FQB somewhere) but Trevor is considered a generational prospect (whereas I don't think Sam was considered to be quite in that rarefied air).

As much as we want to control and predict all we can do is wait things out. Either we get the number 1 pick and we get TLaw or we win a few games and hopefully Darnold improves. If we win a few games with Flacco though we are screwed. 

[peebag]

No, it can get worse.

Just wait.

[peekskill68]

21 minutes ago, peebag said:

No, it can get worse.

Just wait.

A lot of people on Wall St. have gone broke trying to call a bottom...

[football guy]

52 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The NY Jets haven't won anything since 1969, do the calculations thats 51 years and counting.................

 

55 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

IT's been one reaaaaaallly long hour

And I'm aware of these feelings. I'm aware of the history. But it's a historical fallacy and a fallacy of composition to compare past administrations (whether it were past owners, general managers, or coaches) to one another just because they happen to wear the same logo and share the same fanbase. 

 

Emotionally, I feel this team is cursed. Namath made a deal with the devil and we won't succeed until he passes on. 

Rationally, I consider specific events and mismanaged decisions that have resulted in where we are today. 

 

We're all feeling a bit "emotional" these days, hence why I figured to outline some of the aspects that rationally show there is some hope for Jets football in the next decade.

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Both good points but for me its Woody Johnson selling the team to an owner who at least understands the game of football. 

Agreed. You can’t hire construction workers for a job if you don’t know what a guy who has a clue about construction work sounds like when you interview him.

[jgb]

I remember when I was 15 and thought the Jets wouldn’t suck forever. Welcome aboard the Titanic, kid. Take note of the location of the lifeboats. 

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Namath made a deal with the devil and we won't succeed until he passes on. 

Please don't say that. 

[jgb]

BTW it’s darkest at midnight. Just before dawn, it’s brightening. The Jets are at around 10:00pm. Far from the light.

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, football guy said:

 

And I'm aware of these feelings. I'm aware of the history. But it's a historical fallacy and a fallacy of composition to compare past administrations (whether it were past owners, general managers, or coaches) to one another just because they happen to wear the same logo and share the same fanbase. 

 

Emotionally, I feel this team is cursed. Namath made a deal with the devil and we won't succeed until he passes on. 

Rationally, I consider specific events and mismanaged decisions that have resulted in where we are today. 

 

We're all feeling a bit "emotional" these days, hence why I figured to outline some of the aspects that rationally show there is some hope for Jets football in the next decade.

I’m sorry. I have kids. I like young people. But you don’t know squat about how bad this team is. Here’s a participation trophy for making it his thread, though

[Spoot-Face]

It's actually not, though.

[RutgersJetFan]

The night is dark and full of terrors. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I'm not sure which one of us wrote our post first but it's hilarious that we basically had the same thought and posted at the same time.  (though you outlined it in far more detail than I did)

[TNJet]

And offenses are sh*ttier under Adam Gase.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

I know this seems like a regurgitated message that Jets fans have grown far too accustomed to, but amid all this madness, I just wanted to point out a few things for fans to look forward to as we move forward... 

Most important: Contrary to media pundit speculation, the Jets job will be highly attractive. 

1. The Jets are virtually guaranteed to have a young, talented franchise-caliber QB prospect on the roster in 2021. Whether it will be Sam Darnold, Trevor Lawrence, or whoever, the Jets are virtually guaranteed to enter next year with a talented young QB. Obviously opinions are split on who that player will be, but let's not compare Darnold to a total bust just yet. Many reputable NFL experts around the league vouch for the player, he has shown us an ability to make elite plays, and he's only 23 years old. He is a prime candidate to improve immensely outside of a Gase offense- which clearly does not fit his skillset. He has the rest of the season to turn around his play, and if he doesn't the Jets will likely have the top pick. Then it will be decision time, but either way, the Jets will not be entering next season with a lack of a QB or a veteran stop-gap scenario.
2. The Jets will have stability at General Manager for at least 2 more seasons. We all know the stories about how respected Joe Douglas is as a talent evaluator. He's used the means and resources he's had to add guys. He's made some mistakes (letting Robby Anderson walk among the worst of them), but he's also made some major additions: Becton-who looks like he can be a HOF talent; JFM-who has quietly been amongst the best interior pass rushers in the NFL; Fant-a FA find who looks like a stable starting NFL tackle; Lewis-a serviceable LG who at worst serves as a top reliable backup; Ficken-most accurate kicker in the NFL. To judge him for the rest of his 1st draft this early would be foolish- 7 of 9 players have dealt with injury, limited offseason due to pandemic, no pre-season, etc.  Whether you disagree with Adams being traded is a personal preference, but the deal itself has been unanimously lauded given how much the Jets received in return.  Douglas will have 4.5 more years on his contract (and 4 drafts) at season's end. That amount of time aligns perfectly with the next HC, who will likely sign a 4 year deal unless it's a superstar candidate. If they both failed miserably, they would be fired beginning 2023. More likely, they would get until 2024 (3 years for HC) before the team made an ultimatum. 
3. The Jets have the most robust draft capital they've had since the 2000 NFL Draft. This can't be understated. Over the next 2 seasons, the Jets have four-1st round picks, two-2nd round picks, and three-3rd round picks. The last time the Jets had anything close to that over a two year span? 2000, when the Jets had five-1sts, a 2nd, and two-3rds. Obviously hitting on the picks is important, but having more picks increases the likelihood of success, and it increases the attractiveness of the job. 
4. The Jets will have close to $90 million in cap space, which projects as 3rd most in the NFL. People can speculate how the money will be used and if it matters, but here are the facts: Jets cash spending is amongst the lowest in the NFL in 2020, and it will be the lowest in the NFL in 2021. Contrary to speculation, the Jets are not "poor"- if there was any spending limit imposed on Douglas, it had little to do with Douglas and more to do with taking a year off after spending major dollars in 2019, as well as to force Gase to coach out the year and prove his worth before going on another spending spree in 2021. Fact is they have to spend the money by rule, and the only noteworthy Jets player who is due for an extension in 2021-2022 other than Marcus Maye ('21), Jamison Crowder ('22), John Franklin-Myers ('21), and Foley Fatukasi ('21). Bottom-line: for better or worse, the Jets will be big spenders, and that always has attracted coaching candidates. 
5. If Woody Johnson returns, it may not as bad as an owner as you think. I know I'll catch some flack for this one, but hear me out. Woody Johnson took over the team in 2001 and left in 2017. During that span, the Jets went 123-133 and made the playoffs 6 times in 17 seasons. While not satisfactory, the Jets also never had back-to-back losing seasons under his ownership (the Jets are on their way to 4 losing seasons in a row). He hired 5 Head Coaches: Al Groh (who resigned after 1 season), Herm Edwards (5 seasons), Eric Mangini (3 seasons), Rex Ryan (6 seasons), and Todd Bowles (ultimately 4 seasons). For all the negative press and the ups-and-downs, Woody Johnson was always known to be an enabler who demands the best out of his employees (NYT). He was also respected enough among the NFL to be nominated to the 8-man committee to anoint the successor to Paul Tagliabue for NFL Commissioner, and was a major player in CBA negotiations. Say what you want about him meddling in personnel affairs (i.e. trading for Favre, signing Revis in FA) and his GM selections/hierarchy structure post-Tannenbaum (Idzik, Maccagnan), and the team's inability to find sustainability, but to say that people around the NFL view him as a bad owner because of his lack of relationships with players is simply a sensationalized concept. His biggest flaw was that his desire to win and make splash moves to increase PR prevented the Jets from truly tearing down and rebuilding the team. The Jets are undergoing that process, and furthermore, they have a respected GM locked up who seems to have the right priorities (building through the draft, building from the LOS outwards). Contrary to popular belief, Woody Johnson potentially returning may come at the perfect time and could promote a welcomed change. Whereas Christopher Johnson has established a better relationship with the players yet has become complacent with losing as a means of rebuilding, Woody brings back an edginess and re-establishes a tone, attitude, and agenda that losing is not tolerated. 

 

Again, I'll quote The Dark Knight/Thomas Fuller: the darkest hour is just before dawn.

Even if we are facing possibly the worst of circumstances in franchise history (at least the worst in my 21 years following the team) there is hope in the near-future. 

When did Winston Churchill become a Jets fan

 

[jago]

you know its bad when this thread will have to be merged.

[Patriot Killa]

You sound young and full of hope lol. that was me all through out high school. sometimes wish I was still gullible because the games were a bit less eye gouging when you think it doesn’t last forever but it does.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, jago said:

you know its bad when this thread will have to be merged.

Hilarious!  Though I'm genuinely curious to know who made their post first.  Either way, I think we should keep the other thread since that guy made a much more detailed post than I did.

[Adoni Beast]

The Jets will be the most or at the very least 2nd most coveted job if 2 things happen:

1. We get the 1st pick

2. Joe Douglas is the one who is hiring the coach, instead of J&J.

If we’re picking 3rd or 4th, then Point 2 needs to still occur to get a decent coach in here who also thinks Sam can be the guy, but it will definitely drop off a few potential candidates who will salivate at the chance to draft Trevor and keep Sam for a year as a trade bait or ship him off for a decent pick right away.

[jgb]

38 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Jets will be the most or at the very least 2nd most coveted job if 2 things happen:

1. We get the 1st pick

2. Joe Douglas is the one who is hiring the coach, instead of J&J.

If we’re picking 3rd or 4th, then Point 2 needs to still occur to get a decent coach in here who also thinks Sam can be the guy, but it will definitely drop off a few potential candidates who will salivate at the chance to draft Trevor and keep Sam for a year as a trade bait or ship him off for a decent pick right away.

Jets are not and will never be a coveted landing spot. The only legit coach we’ve recruited in 50 years was on a vendetta run from his previous employer.

[ToonforPrez]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Please don't say that. 

[Beaver]

I'm here to wreck your franchise and chew bubble gum.  And I'm all out of bubble gum

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Beaver said:

I'm here to wreck your franchise and chew bubble gum.  And I'm all out of bubble gum

Look at the Bozo the Clown knot in his tie. 

[THE BARON]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Nothing changes until we find a head coach who can cultivate his skill set and win games. Nothing changes until JD understands the importance of flooding the offense with capable offensive playmakers. 

Nothing changes util Johnson sells the team or at least gets his head out of his own ass and lets a professional make all the decisions...

JOHNSON SUCKS...  

[TuscanyTile2]

11 minutes ago, ToonforPrez said:

[IndianaJet]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The night is dark and full of terrors. 

 

12 minutes ago, ToonforPrez said:

How all Jets fans feel.....

[joewilly12]

The last 51 years as a NY Jets fan.........

 

 

 

 

Looking up from the bottom of a well.

[ToonforPrez]

2 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

 

How all Jets fans feel.....

Absolutely it's getting to a dire point in my fandom !!. No Children maybe a few former GF'S it's for the cause. 

[Irish Jet]

Didn’t Harvey Dent say this right before half of his face was scorched off?