Mark Sanchez Can Sing!

[Jetsfan80]

37 minutes ago, jgb said:

Understand your perspective but if D didn’t lay an epic turd in first half wouldn’t have come down to that 

He'd been bailed out by his defense his whole career to that point.  It was high time the offense carried the load for once, and Sanchez couldn't do it.  The defense allowed 17 points in the first half and none in the 2nd.  If the Steelers had continued scoring in the 2nd half I could concede that the defense had a bad day.  They didn't.  

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

He'd been bailed out by his defense his whole career to that point.  It was high time the offense carried the load for once, and Sanchez couldn't do it.  The defense allowed 17 points in the first half and none in the 2nd.  If the Steelers had continued scoring in the 2nd half I could concede that the defense had a bad day.  They didn't.  

Agree the D had been the engine for the team but those 17 points in the half shocked everyone I think. Typical Rex letdown after a huge emotional win the week before.

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Pick one or the other. You can't have it both ways. 

 

Sanchez and darnold weren't bad QBs at the college level. 

Nope.  They aren't mutually exclusive points at all.  Bad QB's who were developed poorly are still bad QB's.  And in Sanchez's case, he wasn't developed poorly at all.

And Sanchez and Darnold absolutely were flawed prospects at the collegiate level.  Sanchez especially.  He didn't have enough college starts and had significant red flags.  Pete Carroll had told Mark he stay in school for another year.

[Beerfish]

26 minutes ago, FlightBoyz said:

Absolutely. Played well in all post season games. 

He threw for under 200 yards in 4 of those 6 games.  He played well i the last two games (NE, PITT), even then he had a crual fumble vs pitt. he played but nothing special otherwise.

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Nope.  They aren't mutually exclusive points at all.  Bad QB's who were developed poorly are still bad QB's.  And in Sanchez's case, he wasn't developed poorly at all.

And Sanchez and Darnold absolutely were flawed prospects at the collegiate level.  Sanchez didn't have enough starts and had significant red flags.

Surround a QB with weaponz, run game, elite D— “we ruined him!”

Surround a QB with replacement-level players—“we ruined him!”

Will Jets fans ever blame a QB??

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Agree the D had been the engine for the team but those 17 points in the half shocked everyone I think. Typical Rex letdown after a huge emotional win the week before.

If Sanchez had been able to lead the team down for even a FG to end the half that game could have been winnable.  Or, hey, scored at ANY time in that half to help the cause.  Instead he fumbled it away to hand Pittsburgh 7 more. 

Negative 7 points by the offense in a half is far, far worse than a defense allowing 17 in a half.

[Irish Jet]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Bottom line, he was the worst player on two of the Jets' most talented rosters in team history.

Kyle Wilson reacting to this:

[predator_05]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Mark is a great guy and I wish him nothing but the best after what we did to him here.

Can't wait for his induction into the Ring Of Honor.

SAR I

 

I was a bit of a Sanchez hater when he was playing for the Jets, but as time goes on - and the team gets worse - i keep revisiting my stance. I have grown to appreciate him more. 

 

@SAR I is absolutely spot on with his assessment of Sanchez's Jets career. What he accomplished, under immense pressure and expectation - will likely never be equalled by any future QB that plays for this franchise. Darnold was a more talented QB, but he's been broken by the weight of expectation. This is the hardest place to be a QB, its a poisoned chalice. Sanchez's success and failures - when viewed in this context - are much easier to appreciate. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If Sanchez had been able to lead the team down for even a FG to end the half that game could have been winnable.  Or, hey, scored at ANY time in that half to help the cause.  Instead he fumbled it away to hand Pittsburgh 7 more. 

Negative 7 points by the offense in a half is far, far worse than a defense allowing 17 in a half.

Just don’t think you can highlight the last drive at the end of the half to blame Sanchez. Sanchez played well beyond his means in the playoffs. He wasn’t the reason they lost. Maybe it was his wiirponz   

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

I was a bit of a Sanchez hater when he was playing for the Jets, but as time goes on - and the team gets worse - i keep revisiting my stance. I have grown to appreciate him more. 

 

@SAR I is absolutely spot on with his assessment of Sanchez's Jets career. What he accomplished with the team, under immense pressure and expectation - will likely never be equalled by any future QB that plays for this franchise. Darnold was a more talented QB, but he's been broken by the weight of expectation. This is the hardest place to be a QB, its a poisoned chalice. Sanchez's success and failures - when viewed in this context - are much easier to appreciate. 

 

What HE accomplished?  Really?  What SANCHEZ accomplished?

Crediting Sanchez for the success of those teams would be like crediting the receptionist at Microsoft for Bill Gates' success.

The mere fact that you're aligning with SAR I on this one should  have given you pause.

If Sanchez is the pinnacle of what Jets QB play can be, you need to set your sights much, much higher.

[predator_05]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Nope.  They aren't mutually exclusive points at all.  Bad QB's who were developed poorly are still bad QB's.  And in Sanchez's case, he wasn't developed poorly at all.

And Sanchez and Darnold absolutely were flawed prospects at the collegiate level.  Sanchez especially.  He didn't have enough college starts and had significant red flags.  Pete Carroll had told Mark he stay in school for another year.

All prospects are flawed at the NFL level. There's a huge learning curve from college to the pros, very few, if any, hit the ground running. 

Darnold and sanchez were better than most other prospects in their draft class. The 'never any good' argument fails right here. They were very good at the collegiate level. 

The Jets should bear responsibility for failing to realize their potential. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Just don’t think you can highlight the last drive at the end of the half to blame Sanchez. Sanchez played well beyond his means in the playoffs. He wasn’t the reason they lost. Maybe it was his wiirponz   

How about ALL of the offensive drives in that first half?  Here's how they went:

• 7 plays, 29 yards, Punt
• 3 plays, -2 yards, Punt
• 3 plays, 3 yards, Punt
• 3 plays, -14 yards, Fumble 

26 total offensive yards in the first half.  Under 8:00 time of possession (compared to 22:00 for PIT).

Yeah, I'm sure that helped the defense out a ton.

[Drums]

So much enthusiasm on that show. Maybe we will have some here by the end of the decade.  Maybe not. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How about ALL of the offensive drives in that first half?  Here's how they went:

• 7 plays, 29 yards, Punt
• 3 plays, -2 yards, Punt
• 3 plays, 3 yards, Punt
• 3 plays, -14 yards, Fumble 

26 total offensive yards in the first half.  Under 8:00 time of possession (compared to 22:00 for PIT).

Yeah, I'm sure that helped the defense out a ton.

All offenses have an off day. That’s when your defensive genius HC needs to earn his money. He did not.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

All prospects are flawed at the NFL level. There's a huge learning curve from college to the pros, very few, if any, hit the ground running. 

Darnold and sanchez were better than most other prospects in their draft class. The 'never any good' argument fails right here. They were very good at the collegiate level. 

The Jets should bear responsibility for failing to realize their potential. 

 

And again, the Jets did everything possible to help Sanchez those 1st 2 years.  He still sucked, but we hoped he'd become something more.  By Year 3 the training wheels were off and....guess what....he still sucked!

Darnold has had 30 starts here, can't stay healthy, and has shown very little at the pro level.  He needs to same some accountability/blame for that beyond his circumstances.  Because there have been QB's in the past in tough situations that have still played well and ended up lifting the team around them by year 3.

A QB can play or he can't.  If it really was the case that the Jets were the ONLY problem, then Sanchez and Geno Smith would have succeeded elsewhere.  They didn't.  We'll see with Darnold, but my guess is his ceiling is Andy Dalton.   

[jetophile]

16 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The way I see it, Sam had the chance to win the game. He didn't get it done. 

I don't think Sam was born yet, lol. I kid, I kid, I know what you meant; but if the defense showed up that fateful day we're not having this conversation regardless.

[predator_05]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

What HE accomplished?  Really?  What SANCHEZ accomplished?

Crediting Sanchez for the success of those teams would be like crediting the receptionist at Microsoft for Bill Gates' success.

The mere fact that you're aligning with SAR I on this one should  have given you pause.

If Sanchez is the pinnacle of what Jets QB play can be, you need to set your sights much, much higher.

 

Sights don't reach further than back to back AFC championship games. The best run in Jets history looks better, and better, and better with each passing season. 

Think about where the team currently finds itself - a million miles away from those days. 

I agree, he doesn't deserve ALL the credit. But as the QB, he earns a fair share of it. QB is the most important position, and he made some big plays when it counted. This is the best i've seen from the Jets at the QB position, at least in my lifetime. Favre had a nice run of games, and Fitzpatrick had a memorable season. But 2009 & 2010 are the biggest highlights. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

All offenses have an off day. That’s when your defensive genius HC needs to earn his money. He did not.

"Off day"?  Sanchez's entire career was an "off day".  

This is the modern NFL.  You have to score points to win.  The defense can't be expected to pitch shutouts against playoff offenses.

[Bleedin Green]

46 minutes ago, jgb said:

Disagree. Sanchez best games were post season. Stillers game was lost by D IMHO

This is a complete JN-fabricated myth that has been repeated so many times by apologists that some people are starting to believe it based on that alone.  He had a good game against NE, I'll give him that.  Every other postseason performance ranged from mediocre to outright awful.

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

And again, the Jets did everything possible to help Sanchez those 1st 2 years.  He still sucked, but we hoped he'd become something more.  By Year 3 the training wheels were off and....guess what....he still sucked!

Darnold has had 30 starts here, can't stay healthy, and has shown very little at the pro level.  He needs to same some accountability/blame for that beyond his circumstances.  Because there have been QB's in the past in tough situations that have still played well and ended up lifting the team around them by year 3.

A QB can play or he can't.  If it really was the case that the Jets were the ONLY problem, then Sanchez and Geno Smith would have succeeded elsewhere.  They didn't.  We'll see with Darnold, but my guess is his ceiling is Andy Dalton.   

Both Sanchez and Darnold sucked. The difference is Jets had the talent to cover for Sanchez.

[Drums]

4 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

All prospects are flawed at the NFL level. There's a huge learning curve from college to the pros, very few, if any, hit the ground running. 

Darnold and sanchez were better than most other prospects in their draft class. The 'never any good' argument fails right here. They were very good at the collegiate level. 

The Jets should bear responsibility for failing to realize their potential. 

I think Sanchez had more talent around him in college and the pros but the Jets still screwed that up when they thought it was a good idea to bring in Mason and Burress, among other moves. Tanny was not a good GM and he is still dumb. Listen to him talk on Sunday mornings.. wrong basically all the time and thinks we should keep Gase so Darnold doesnt have to have another playbook. Guy got by on Mangini and then crumbled. 

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

"Off day"?  Sanchez's entire career was an "off day".  

He sucked, I was slammed for saying it early and often. But he did have the ability to play beyond his mean in playoffs in general. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, predator_05 said:

 

Sights don't reach further than back to back AFC championship games. The best run in Jets history looks better, and better, and better with each passing season. 

Think about where the team currently finds itself - a million miles away from those days. 

I agree, he doesn't deserve ALL the credit. But as the QB, he earns a fair share of it. QB is the most important position, and he made some big plays when it counted. This is the best i've seen from the Jets at the QB position, at least in my lifetime. Favre had a nice run of games, and Fitzpatrick had a memorable season. But 2009 & 2010 are the biggest highlights. 

 

100 % of the credit for those AFC Championship appearances go to defense and offensive line of those teams.  0 % goes to Mark f**king Sanchez.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

He sucked, I was slammed for saying it early and often. But he did have the ability to play beyond his mean in playoffs in general. 

And he didn't that day.  He had a classic Sanchez dogsh*t regular season performance.  That was the # 1 reason we lost.  Not the defense. 

The defense was worse than usual but still good overall under the circumstances against a playoff offense.

[predator_05]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

And again, the Jets did everything possible to help Sanchez those 1st 2 years.  He still sucked, but we hoped he'd become something more.  By Year 3 the training wheels were off and....guess what....he still sucked!

Darnold has had 30 starts here, can't stay healthy, and has shown very little at the pro level.  He needs to same some accountability/blame for that beyond his circumstances.  Because there have been QB's in the past in tough situations that have still played well and ended up lifting the team around them by year 3.

A QB can play or he can't.  If it really was the case that the Jets were the ONLY problem, then Sanchez and Geno Smith would have succeeded elsewhere.  They didn't.  We'll see with Darnold, but my guess is his ceiling is Andy Dalton.   

They are young guys in their early 20s. Of course they're gonna have their growing pains.

The organization failed them.

They'll ruin Trevor lawrence as well...unless they make structural changes and build around him. We're aiming our guns at the wrong targets. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

They are young guys in their early 20s. Of course they're gonna have their growing pains.

The organization failed them.

They'll ruin Trevor lawrence as well...unless they make structural changes and build around him. We're aiming our guns at the wrong targets. 

 

Look around the league.  How many "growing pains" are kids like Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow demonstrating compared to the likes of Sanchez, Geno Smith and Darnold?  And none of those 3 I listed started under good circumstances.  

This idea that bad young QB's are ONLY bad because of their circumstances is laughable.  You have to be able to get this.  You weren't saying this stuff about guys like Joey Harrington, David Carr, JaMarcus Russell, Josh Rosen, etc, I'm guessing.

[Irish Jet]

9 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

This is a complete JN-fabricated myth that has been repeated so many times by apologists that some people are starting to believe it based on that alone.  He had a good game against NE, I'll give him that.  Every other postseason performance ranged from mediocre to outright awful.

He was good against the Bengals too in the WC in 2009.

It gets spread because they're astonishing stats relative to his regular season performances. You generally get worse against the better opposition where Sanchez didn't. He either maintained his level or outplayed it. His overall playoff stats are bizarrely far better than any season he put together.

Regular Season:

Year	Team	G	GS	Passing								Rushing				Sacked		Fumbles		Record
				Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	TD	Int	Rtg	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Sck	YdsL	Fum	FumL	W	L
2009	NYJ	15	15	196	364	53.8	2,444	6.7	12	20	63.0	36	106	2.9	3	26	195	10	3	8	7
2010	NYJ	16	16	278	507	54.8	3,291	6.5	17	13	75.3	30	105	3.5	3	27	171	9	1	11	5

Playoffs:

Year	Team	G	GS	Passing								Rushing				Record
				Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	TD	Int	Rtg	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	W	L
2009	NYJ	3	3	41	68	60.3	539	7.9	4	2	92.7	6	−2	−0.3	0	2	1
2010	NYJ	3	3	54	89	60.9	616	6.9	5	1	97.3	5	11	2.2	0	2	1

 

[Lurker89]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

That was not Mark Sanchez' fault.

Mark has some blame in that .... It took the field vision of a blind man not to see Moore's large @$$.

Moore got blown up .... Mark ran up his ***hole.

There is hitting the hole and then there is hitting the hole.

[predator_05]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

100 % of the credit for those AFC Championship appearances go to defense and offensive line of those teams.  0 % goes to Mark f**king Sanchez.

Come on dude, that's just malicious. And completely untrue.

 

QBs score the points. Offense played well in those games, Sanchez had a part to play. 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And he didn't that day.  He had a classic Sanchez dogsh*t regular season performance.  That was the # 1 reason we lost.  Not the defense. 

The defense was worse than usual but still good overall under the circumstances against a playoff offense.

Steelers had #1 ranked defense that year. You act like Sanchez was throwing baseballs at milk cans.

Jets offense performed to norm. Our defense played below their ranking. I will die blaming the defense for that loss.

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Come on dude, that's just malicious. And completely untrue.

 

QBs score the points. Offense played well in those games, Sanchez had a part to play. 

 

So because Sanchez scored a few points here and there he gets credit?  Any starting QB can score in today's NFL.  He scored less than all of them.  He was the worst starting QB in the league by far, and a quarter of the league's backups were better, too.

He was the weakest link on that entire roster, and prevented 2 absolutely loaded teams from getting to a Super Bowl.

[Bleedin Green]

16 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

I was a bit of a Sanchez hater when he was playing for the Jets, but as time goes on - and the team gets worse - i keep revisiting my stance. I have grown to appreciate him more. 

 

@SAR I is absolutely spot on with his assessment of Sanchez's Jets career. What he accomplished, under immense pressure and expectation - will likely never be equalled by any future QB that plays for this franchise. Darnold was a more talented QB, but he's been broken by the weight of expectation. This is the hardest place to be a QB, its a poisoned chalice. Sanchez's success and failures - when viewed in this context - are much easier to appreciate. 

The team success for those two years was quite literally in spite of Sanchez, in absolutely no way because of him.

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The same one that surrounded him with the game's best offensive line and defense his first 2 years?

If he was so weak-minded that he couldn't so much as hold down a QB2 job at any of his 4 subsequent destinations because of what the mean old Jets did to his poor psyche, then he didn't belong in the league in the first place.  And by the time he was just 28, that's exactly where he ended up.  

FFS he had the Denver job handed to him on a silver platter and he STILL found a way to lose it to 7th round pick and 2nd-year QB Trevor Siemian.

Bravo.

From where I was sitting and watching, Sanchez was talented and very likable.  I also believe he really didn't want to play football all that much.  When there was the major pressure of a big playoff game, he kept his focus, but for the most part, he really didn't want it bad enough.  He often lost his focus such as the butt fumble and all the interceptions.  Pete Carol also saw the same things, I think.  He realized that Sancez was not fanatical enough to live in the NFL.  

Great guy with a lot of athletic ability that would rather be doing something less intense and stressful. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Steelers has #1 ranked defense that year. You act like Sanchez was throwing baseballs at milk cans.

I will die blaming the defense for that loss.

A QB who supposedly steps up his game in the playoffs needs to step up against a top-flight defense, too.  That's what starting playoff QB's have to do from time to time.  He not only didn't do it, he wasn't even really competitive in that game until the Steelers started playing conservative on D.

[predator_05]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Look around the league.  How many "growing pains" are kids like Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow demonstrating compared to the likes of Sanchez, Geno Smith and Darnold?  And none of those 3 I listed started under good circumstances.  

This idea that bad young QB's are ONLY bad because of their circumstances is laughable.  You have to be able to get this.  You weren't saying this stuff about guys like Joey Harrington, David Carr, JaMarcus Russell, etc, I'm guessing.

Didn't we just discuss this whole nature vs nurture thing in the Josh Allen thread? You've made a complete 180. 

 

Herbert has a great situation; he's got good receivers and a decent offensive line. 

Burrow has excellent receivers in Boyd, Higgins and a stud in Mixon at RB.

Kyler got Hopkins in the off-season, and he has the full support of Kingsbury, who knew him since high school. 

 

Their teams aren't total dumpster fires like the Jets. Bengals are closest to the Jets, but at least they have some elite talent in critical positions. The Jets are crap across the board. No QB will ever succeed in such a dysfunctional environment.