Mark Sanchez Can Sing!

[predator_05]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Let's all hope Lawrence gets the kind of circumstances Sanchez got when he started out!

That's not happening for sure. 

 

Here's what Lawrence gets next year - (this could be a separate thread, btw):

 

1. Mediocre offensive line - if everyone's healthy - with lack of depth. 

2. A league-bottom group of receivers, including a 2nd round pick that's basically redshirted his rookie year (Mims).

3. No RB? Maybe they draft Etienne, but the room is empty at the moment. 

4. Some mediocre retread coach, because no bright, young football coach will ever join the Jets. 

5. A lack of leadership in the locker room - because this is bound to be a young team in transition. 

 

He's gonna suck. This isn't Burrow, Herbert or Murray. And don't blame his 'not being any good' when he does. 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I never said the defense played well.  Only that they weren't the biggest problem that day.  They weren't.  

With that, I've said my piece.  You and SAR I cut the lights when you're done. 

You should hold the defense to the same standard you hold Sanchez. He played better than his expected performance. Defense performed far, far worse.

You're blaming Sanchez for being basically the best version of himself while giving the defense a pass for performing well below expectations. You expect the anchor runner on the relay team to run fastest. Higher expectations for the defense that year wasn't "unfair," it was reality.

[Irish Jet]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

If a "defensive genius" can't win with a performance like this from his "crappy QB" then the defense failed. 

They both failed.

Jesus why is this even still debated? 

They were all garbage in the first half and then they all played lights out in the second. Probably the worst and best we seen of Ryan's Jets on all sides of the ball. It was especially frustrating because unlike the previous year I think a lot of us felt we were the better team before and after the game.

That said I'm not sure anyone was stopping Aaron Rodgers that year.

[SAR I]

41 minutes ago, jgb said:

If defense played to their rank against the Steelers #13 ranked offense, we win that game.

If D'Brickashaw Ferguson doesn't whiff on Ike Taylor causing a strip sack TD, the Jets go to the Super Bowl.

But, no, no one talks about that because we love love love Mr. Ironman and hate hate hate Mr. Buttfumble.  It’s only the biggest mistake by a lineman in franchise history, but no one ever talks about it.

SAR I

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

They both failed.

Jesus why is this even still debated? 

They were all garbage in the first half and then they all played lights out in the second. Probably the worst and best we seen of Ryan's Jets on all sides of the ball. It was especially frustrating because unlike the previous year I think a lot of us felt we were the better team before and after the game.

That said I'm not sure anyone was stopping Aaron Rodgers that year.

Because I'm a Jets fan born after 1969 so what else do I have?

[Bleedin Green]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

If a "defensive genius" can't win with a performance like this from his crappy QB then the defense failed. I guess Rex needed Sanchez to play like prime Peyton Manning to win that game. Awesome gameplan!

He scored 10 more points for the Jets than the Steelers.

But hey, I get it, you're in full straw man mode with your argument because it's the only option you have left when attempting to defend your own gullibility of the mythical world of Sanchez's postseason greatness.

 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So you believe the "expected outcome" is that it shoud've been seen as totally reasonable to have the defense hold the opponent to 9 or less points, in order to have the possibility to win?  And that it also should have been expected for the offense to do even worse than only scoring 10 more points for their own team than they handed to the opponents?

You would have to believe both of those in order to come to the conclusion you're trying to push here about how offensive/defensive expectations compare to the results.

Where did 9 points come from? Don't create fake situations.

[Jet Blast]

Here is a VERY early preview of a thread I will be starting about 10 years from now. Note the clever costume Sam will choose...

Sam Darnold was on The Masked Singer and he was almost so-so. In fact, IMO, he should not have become a QB, nor does he have a career as a singer ahead of him. Check it out:

 

•  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

He scored 10 more points for the Jets than the Steelers.

But hey, I get it, you're in full straw man mode with your argument because it's the only option you have left when attempting to defend your own gullibility of the mythical world of Sanchez's postseason greatness.

 

No. I'm just saying when you hire a defensive genius as HC and devoted like 90% of your resources into the defense, it's absurd to expect the offense to carry the team. Sanchez was Sanchez+ that game. Better than his average game as a Jet. Defense was far below their mean. They choked like an old man without teeth at a pasta buffet.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Sanchez seems like a good enough guy,

I mean, unless you have a teenage daughter.

[ZachEY]

.

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, jgb said:

No. I'm just saying when you hire a defensive genius as HC and devoted like 90% of your resources into the defense, it's absurd to expect the offense to carry the team. Sanchez was Sanchez+ that game. Better than his average game as a Jet. Defense was far below their mean. They chocked like an old man without teeth at a pasta buffet.

So again, you are arguing that the "offense to carry the team" is qualified as any circumstance other than the Jets defense holding the opponents to 9 point or less, because that's what they would have had to do in that game in order to make that so-called "better than average" performance result in victory.

[jgb]

"Most encouraging, Sanchez was improving at the expected rate. He wasn’t a superstar, but he didn’t need to be: He was better his second season than his first, and he had maybe the best game of his career in the 2010 AFC Championship Game, nearly leading the Jets back from a 24-0 deficit. Only two years into his career, he had notched four playoff victories and appeared in GQ with his shirt off. The Jets looked primed."

https://nymag.com/news/sports/games/rex-ryan-2012-11/

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, predator_05 said:

His formative years were wasted by a short-sighted coach and front office. By the time he left, he was cooked. 

That is a creative narrative that unfortunately is wrong. The Jets didn't break Sanchez. He was still young when he left here. If he had what was needed around him, then his mediocre talent could make him sustainable. But as clearly shown on every team for whom Sanchez played  he just didn't have the field vision and quick decision making needed in the NFL.  His demise certainly was not helped by the Jets removing weapons, but it was NOT the Jets that ruined his QB career. He never had it to begin with. Worst field vision for a QB, I've ever witnessed. Plenty of great singers who are blind, so there's hope.  Sanchez is a good guy. Nothing personal. 

[predator_05]

17 minutes ago, Dcat said:

That is a creative narrative that unfortunately is wrong. The Jets didn't break Sanchez. He was still young when he left here. If he had what was needed around him, then his mediocre talent could make him sustainable. But as clearly shown on every team for whom Sanchez played  he just didn't have the field vision and quick decision making needed in the NFL.  His demise certainly was not helped by the Jets removing weapons, but it was NOT the Jets that ruined his QB career. He never had it to begin with. Worst field vision for a QB, I've ever witnessed. Plenty of great singers who are blind, so there's hope.  Sanchez is a good guy. Nothing personal. 

He was a flawed prospect that wasn't able to improve because of the dysfunctional, short-sighted organization around him. 

 

I'm not saying the Jets broke him. I'm saying the Jets didn't build him up. Like the Bills did Josh Allen. There's a distinction there, and i think its a fair assessment. 

 

If things stay the same, we'e gonna see the same old story play out with a 'supposedly talented' but flawed QB in Lawrence.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

The team success for those two years was quite literally in spite of Sanchez, in absolutely no way because of him.

In our 2010 season, Mark won 5 games on high-pressure 4th quarter comeback drives where Rex Ryan's overhyped 85 Bears D and G&P failed us.  Wins against the Texans, Browns, Lions, Broncos, and Steelers turned 6-10 into 11-5 and another playoff berth.  Not to mention the comeback drive against the Colts in the wildcard.  

That's 6 comebacks in 1 season where Mark carried the D and G&P, not the other way around.  And instead of investing in him we destroyed him.  Flirting with Peyton.  Signing Tebow.  Dumping Schottenheimer.  Hiring Sporano.  Clyde Gates, Chaz Schillens, and Stephen Hill.  Disgraceful.

SAR I

 

[predator_05]

Just now, SAR I said:

In our 2010 season, Mark won 5 games on high-pressure 4th quarter comeback drives where Rex Ryan's overhyped 85 Bears D and G&P failed us.  Wins against the Texans, Browns, Lions, Broncos, and Steelers turned 6-10 into 11-5 and another playoff berth.  Not to mention the comeback drive against the Colts in the wildcard.  

That's 6 comebacks in 1 season where Mark carried the D and G&P, not the other way around.  And instead of investing in him we destroyed him.  Flirting with Peyton.  Signing Tebow.  Dumping Schottenheimer.  Hiring Sporano.  Clyde Gates, Chaz Schillens, and Stephen Hill.  Disgraceful.

SAR I

 

 

As the kids (or bots) on social media would say nowadays, "where's the lie???" 

 

He's right. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Look at #77.  Then look at #65.  Watch the GIF a few times looking at just those two Jets.  #77 in particular.

It was a busted play.  In an instant, Sanchez realized he needed to get back to the line of scrimmage to avoid taking a big loss.  Howard pushed his assignment off the line nicely, Mark made the read, bolted for that hole, and WHAM, Moore got thrown into his path.

Look at how far Moore is off his position.  When he first makes contact with Sanchez, his body past the spot where Howard lined up.

SAR I

OL get pushed back all the time and he didn't ragdoll moore, he pushed him back and he tripped over the QB that tried to crawl up his butt

[SAR I]

20 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

He was a flawed prospect that wasn't able to improve because of the dysfunctional, short-sighted organization around him. 

I'm not saying the Jets broke him. I'm saying the Jets didn't build him up. Like the Bills did Josh Allen. There's a distinction there, and i think its a fair assessment. 

If things stay the same, we'e gonna see the same old story play out with a 'supposedly talented' but flawed QB in Lawrence.

Exactly.

Could we have asked for a better audition?  Could any QB come out of college as a junior and immediately be thrust onto a win-now team and produce 4 road playoff wins and be the best Jet on the field in consecutive Championship games?  5 comebacks to bail out the D?  A stretch where we won 16 of 20 games, the best such run in franchise history?  Under the bright lights of the NY media?

And we wasted it.  Because Rex Ryan's strategies of the 85 Bears D and Ground & Pound failed miserably and he needed a scapegoat.  Sanchez gone, Schottenheimer gone, Tannenbaum gone, nothing but garbage brought in, Sporano and Idzik and Tebow and Geno and Schillenz and Gates and Hill.

History shows that believing in Rex Ryan and bailing on Mark Sanchez was the biggest mistake of the last 10 years and from the looks of it has set us back another 5.  The fans love for that BS artist led Woody to keep him.  Everything wrong with the Jets today comes from that fateful decision.  Ryan ousted Schottenheimer and Tannenbaum, that led to Sporano and Idzik, that led to Bowles and Maccagnan, that led to Geno and Petty, and that led to what we are today.  League doormats.

SAR I

[predator_05]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Exactly.

Could we have asked for a better audition?  Could any QB come out of college as a junior and immediately be thrust onto a win-now team and produce 4 road playoff wins and be the best Jet on the field in consecutive Championship games?  5 comebacks to bail out the D?  A stretch where we won 16 of 20 games, the best such run in franchise history?

And we wasted it.  Because Rex Ryan's strategies of the 85 Bears D and Ground & Pound failed miserably and he needed a scapegoat.  Sanchez gone, Schottenheimer gone, nothing but garbage brought in, Sporano and Tebow and Geno and Schillenz and Gates and Hill.

History shows that believing in Rex Ryan and bailing on Mark Sanchez was the biggest mistake of the last 10 years and from the looks of it has set us back another 5.  The fans love for that BS artist led Woody to keep him.  Everything wrong with the Jets today comes from that fateful decision.  Ryan ousted Schottenheimer and Tannenbaum, that led to Sporano and Idzik, that led to Bowles and Maccagnan, that led to Geno and Petty, and that led to what we are today.  League doormats.

SAR I

 

You're extremely objective (and correct) about the Ryan regime...but how come we don't see this line of reasoning from you when we discuss Darnold's mismanagement by the Gase regime?

Mark, at least had a chance. Sam never had a chance, he was basically burned alive...with no highlights to show for it. 

[SAR I]

39 minutes ago, Dcat said:

That is a creative narrative that unfortunately is wrong. The Jets didn't break Sanchez.

Hold on.  There is a narrative right now that Adam Gase broke Sam Darnold.  

Yet Sam Darnold was not hit with John Idzik, Tony Sporano, Clyde Gates, Chaz Schillens, Stephen Hill, and Tim Tebow.  Sam Darnold doesn't play in a division with Tom Brady and a Super Bowl Patriots defense.  Sam Darnold isn't asked to face win-and-in pressure.

Be fair.  Everything we are using to excuse Sam Darnold's undisciplined play applies to Mark Sanchez, and Mark Sanchez has 4 playoff victories under the high-pressure of a win-now team to show for it.  Darnold has been treated like a fluffy kitten.  Mark was treated like he had the plague.

SAR I

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, predator_05 said:

His formative years were wasted by a short-sighted coach and front office. By the time he left, he was cooked. 

Lather, rinse, repeat....

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, predator_05 said:

You're extremely objective (and correct) about the Ryan regime...but how come we don't see this line of reasoning from you when we discuss Darnold's mismanagement by the Gase regime?

Mark, at least had a chance. Sam never had a chance, he was basically burned alive...with no highlights to show for it. 

I can't disagree.

SAR I

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

You should hold the defense to the same standard you hold Sanchez. He played better than his expected performance. Defense performed far, far worse.

You're blaming Sanchez for being basically the best version of himself while giving the defense a pass for performing well below expectations. You expect the anchor runner on the relay team to run fastest. Higher expectations for the defense that year wasn't "unfair," it was reality.

 

The standard for Sanchez was to not sh*t his pants, and he couldn't do that.  

[jetophile]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Because I'm a Jets fan born after 1969 so what else do I have?

Anything past 01/13/69 still qualifies for Pain Management.

[jetophile]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The standard for Sanchez was to not sh*t his pants, and he couldn't do that.  

I've crapped my pants plenty of times being a fan of this team, who hasn't. I should invest in those ass wipes that that ass wipe Isaiah Crowell got an endorsement for. 'Dude Wipes', yeah, sure, OK, whatever, they're ass wipes. 

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, predator_05 said:

He was a flawed prospect that wasn't able to improve because of the dysfunctional, short-sighted organization around him. 

 

I'm not saying the Jets broke him. I'm saying the Jets didn't build him up. Like the Bills did Josh Allen. There's a distinction there, and i think its a fair assessment. 

 

If things stay the same, we'e gonna see the same old story play out with a 'supposedly talented' but flawed QB in Lawrence.

Agreed

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

He scored 10 more points for the Jets than the Steelers.

But hey, I get it, you're in full straw man mode with your argument because it's the only option you have left when attempting to defend your own gullibility of the mythical world of Sanchez's postseason greatness.

 

Calling a good argument a "straw man" doesn't make you Dorothy, sweetheart.

[Spoot-Face]

Well, at least he's got that going for him.

[jj71787]

Seems like a chill dude. I seen him do a podcast with Sam and Sam, while harmless joking, said do you have tips so I don't end up like you. Felt bad for Mark in that moment 

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, predator_05 said:

His formative years were wasted by a short-sighted coach and front office. By the time he left, he was cooked. 

Start with he had the leagues top defense

He had lots of good WRs, Bray and Santonio for starters.  

He had a receiving TE.  

He had maybe the NFLs best OL.

He had the NFLs best rushing game.  

He had the NFLs leading rusher.

He wasnt good.  It wasn't the team and front office

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Be fair.  Everything we are using to excuse Sam Darnold's undisciplined play applies to Mark Sanchez, and Mark Sanchez has 4 playoff victories under the high-pressure of a win-now team to show for it.  Darnold has been treated like a fluffy kitten.  Mark was treated like he had the plague.

Other than Sanchez had talent around his offense 

[Warfish]

Good for Mark.   

Not sure why this needed a rehash of decades old arguments tho. 

Can't we EVER just say "cool for him, lol" and move on? 

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Calling a good argument a "straw man" doesn't make you Dorothy, sweetheart.

Yes, your argument against defensive genius and Peyton Manning-level expectations that literally no one made was a true masterpiece.  Totally not exactly straw man by it's very definition.