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Teams calling about Quinnen?


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If Douglas can get recuperate a 1st round pick for Williams I'll go build the statue myself.

In the history of clown shoes moves by this organization, giving Macc that draft, and then firing him, may have been the biggest one.

Yes, but a DT who doesn't really rush the passer with any consistency isn't exactly a crucial piece to build around.   Becton, Mims, and the picks we've accumulated:  That is the "core" of the te

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The fundamental problem here is that when you jettison your coaching staff all the players that don’t fit  are also out.

Except it takes longer  to rebuild with new pieces than it takes to cut.  So you end up with the terrible team syndrome where you are constantly rebuilding and firing your staff every two years because no one has time to make a team that fits their scheme.  Worse all the assets you throw out are massively devalued.

Gase will be gone in the next few months, or after the season is over, but Douglas doesn’t even have a long term coaching staff in place that he can build according to their specs.  It’s just a disaster of a situation, bc we can’t even rebuild properly yet.  It’s just a front office snafu of the highest order.

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7 hours ago, Gangrene said:

"We can start keeping good players when there is an actual core to this team. "

At what point do you flip the switch and say "we have a core" When all the hamstrings have recovered? When we have hit gold on five draft picks? When will that happen?

When you have players at premium positions; QB, LT, Edge, CB rather than SS, DT, MLB, RB

 

Our use of resources has been jacked up for the last 5 years, its going to take some time before we can even remove Mosley from our payroll.

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1 hour ago, Hael said:

The fundamental problem here is that when you jettison your coaching staff all the players that don’t fit  are also out.

Except it takes longer  to rebuild with new pieces than it takes to cut.  So you end up with the terrible team syndrome where you are constantly rebuilding and firing your staff every two years because no one has time to make a team that fits their scheme.  Worse all the assets you throw out are massively devalued.

Gase will be gone in the next few months, or after the season is over, but Douglas doesn’t even have a long term coaching staff in place that he can build according to their specs.  It’s just a disaster of a situation, bc we can’t even rebuild properly yet.  It’s just a front office snafu of the highest order.

If we land #1 then we will attract a good staff. Not to mention of you add another first and a second to our war chest, it wouldnt require us to wait multiple years. We'd be plugging in about 5-7 immediate starters this next season just through the draft.

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3 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

DO I hear a 1 a 1 a 1

Do I hear a 2 a 2 a 2

Do I hear a 3 a 3 a3 

What's That a 3........ SOLD!

Jmo if your Gm doesn’t get a number 1 pick for Q Williams, he should be fired. Some team will be willing to give up a first for Q Williams.( Dt isn’t like Rb , it takes time to find your way- you go from playing against kids in college , to playing against grown arse men every week in the pro’s.

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Trade everyone we have for picks. Then use those new picks on new players who will either under-perform or for those marginally successful, demand a trade to a better franchise.  Then we can trade those marginally performing players for new picks and continue the cycle so that my future grandson and my grandson's grandson can enjoy the same sh*t-filled cycle. 

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12 hours ago, choon328 said:

The Jets would add about $11 million to the salary cap this year if they trade him but would clear about $9 million from next year's cap. Any team that trades for him would have him on a 2 yr deal worth $1.8 million with no guaranteed money.  They would also have another season to determine his 5th year option. It would be a good pickup for a playoff team who doesn't have a lot of cap space.  Think Saints, Steelers, Rams, Chiefs and Raiders. They're so over the cap next year and will need cheap options going forward to get under the cap. 

No Raiders easily are under the cap  next year( Tyrell Williams cut 11,600,000 Savings (zero cap hit) , Gabe Jackson cut 9,600,000 savings , zero cap hit, M Mariota 10, 100,000 savings zero cap hit, R Incognito 6,350,000 savings zero cap hit, L Joyner cut 8,700,000 cap savings 2,500,000 cap hit.       

All those moves will happen.   Lose both starting guards but Raiders are real deep on the interior of the offense line.  D Good( Fa- can get at fraction of Gabe Jackson cost is very slight downgrade  .    J Simpson was drafted to be r Incognito eventually  replacement.  B Parker who was third rounder  drafted to be tackle, probably gets moved inside at some point.( will compete with Simpson).   

let’s See Wr B Edwards - rookie , H Ruggs- rookie , H Renfrow - second year , N Agholor- been great 887,000 signing ( probably due for a raise).

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2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

If we land #1 then we will attract a good staff. Not to mention of you add another first and a second to our war chest, it wouldnt require us to wait multiple years. We'd be plugging in about 5-7 immediate starters this next season just through the draft.

Let me break it to you as easily as I can, so that you're ready for it.  We aren't going to be good next year either!  There is no world in which a team full of 1st year rookies is going to be competitive, especially if we swap qbs.  This, even if we hit multiple hall of famers.  Heck, we'll probably be the youngest team in football next year

Also there is going to be a good amount of loss as well.  Take a player like Marcus Maye.  Talented kid..  Having a good but not great year.  However there is no guarantee he fits the scheme of the next coach.  So he might be gone.   We simply have no idea what we're talking about, and the degree of churn that we might have to deal with.  A player like QW might actually be very desirable for certain coaches and certain schemes.

Kicking out your headchoach and qb is like the equivalent of dropping a nuke on the franchise.  It takes *years* to rebuild from that.

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12 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Called it... I told you he is next... No video game players on the team... He wants people that live to play football... QW has to continue to improve... But the writing is on the wall. 

But he would get a big haul in return not like these armchair qbs are calling it would be 1st rounder plus something

Agreed.  For 2 1st rounders, I'd consider it.  But the idea of getting a mid or late 1st rounder is a no-go for me.

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imo it's all about timing.  the jets will need good players as they rebuild.  they won't be able to address all positions over the 2 or 3 seasons they will need.  in qwill's case it's all about timing.  they have him locked in for the next two seasons and can option the for the 3rd.  at that point they will have to pay him or release him.  so, if he does become a force, he'll be coming into his own just as the jets will be ready to make some serious noise.  this can also be applied to darnold except they only have him locked for next season and then one more season should they excercise the option.

they're going to need players that can overlap this period of suckiness and still be around as the fortunes rise.

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2 hours ago, Hael said:

Let me break it to you as easily as I can, so that you're ready for it.  We aren't going to be good next year either!  There is no world in which a team full of 1st year rookies is going to be competitive, especially if we swap qbs.  This, even if we hit multiple hall of famers.  Heck, we'll probably be the youngest team in football next year

Also there is going to be a good amount of loss as well.  Take a player like Marcus Maye.  Talented kid..  Having a good but not great year.  However there is no guarantee he fits the scheme of the next coach.  So he might be gone.   We simply have no idea what we're talking about, and the degree of churn that we might have to deal with.  A player like QW might actually be very desirable for certain coaches and certain schemes.

Kicking out your headchoach and qb is like the equivalent of dropping a nuke on the franchise.  It takes *years* to rebuild from that.

What scheme doesn't use a free safety?

Regarding Q, we aren't getting a first round pick for him, Im not sure if the people who think that are just trolling but thats not happening.  So if its for another mid round pick, theres no point in moving him.  I get that DT isnt a premium position and Q shouldn't have been picked that high, but that is a sunk cost at this point.  Hes an above average player, on a reasonable contract, theres no reason to trade him when we have $80 million in cap space already.

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So the way I see it, regardless of who drafted him or where he was drafted, QW is still a young player with upside. You can see that he hasn't reached his potential yet and and WILL get better. Here's a young guy that can in from his rookie year to his sophomore year in better shape. He has definitely flashed despite not putting up numbers. He gets in the backfield and disrupts the pocket just not consistently enough. He's making mistakes that are causing penalties. Bottom line, the talent is there and there is certainly upside. 

Now does that mean the Jets SHOULDN'T trade him. I don't know. But they most likely won't get much in return. People on here seem to be talking about about how worthless he is and how they would take a 1st rounder and run in the same breath...whaaa? That's not exactly how it works. If QW is so worthless, we would be lucky to get a 5th or 6th rounder for him. 

I think a team that is 'rebuilding' should keep any and all young players on rookie deals that have upside and a possible future with the team. 

The Jets should be looking to trade Poole, Jenkins, Avery Williamson, Desir, R.Griffin, Perriman- veterans who have underperformed but who other teams (in the race for a SB) know what they can get out of if added to a talented roster. Most of these guys won't be back next year anyway (they are on 1 year prove it deals. 

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5 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

When you have players at premium positions; QB, LT, Edge, CB rather than SS, DT, MLB, RB

 

Our use of resources has been jacked up for the last 5 years, its going to take some time before we can even remove Mosley from our payroll.

This. Pouring a premium asset into Quinnen Williams was a mistake; he essentially had to be Aaron Donald to justify the investment and you can't bet on that outcome. If you can flip him for a premium pick to use on a premium position, so we can reallocate our resources in a way more conducive to building a winning team, you do it.

But you don't trade him just to trade him

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5 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

When you have players at premium positions; QB, LT, Edge, CB rather than SS, DT, MLB, RB

 

Our use of resources has been jacked up for the last 5 years, its going to take some time before we can even remove Mosley from our payroll.

I agree in theory but that goal feels like a mirage to be able to have the luxury of hitting on all those players at all those different premium positions before deciding to hold onto ou home grown talent.

When you have an enduring football brand that has won multiple Super Bowls and has a long history of football credibility, with a little luck...that is doable.
For the Jets, we have to restore football credibility to attract the right staff, the right free agents.

Right now we are at less than zero, we need some home grown players rewarded and encouraged for their loyalty.

Jamal Adams was all about winning with the Jets until he wasn't. The constant  rebuild is killing morale inside the organization and has the stink of a rotting corpse for anyone approaching the jets right now.

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I would be willing to trade Quinnen if we got back a first round draft pick. I am not moving him for a mid-round pick. I think Williams will be a good football player, but since we are blowing up this franchise I would like to restructure positional priority. Defensive tackles, even good ones, rarely impact the team like corners or edge rushers. If we could swap out premium at DT for improvement on the outside I would support that decision. We actually have been pretty good at finding talent at IDL on the cheap, let's reallocate our resources into more important places. 

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6 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Jmo if your Gm doesn’t get a number 1 pick for Q Williams, he should be fired. Some team will be willing to give up a first for Q Williams.( Dt isn’t like Rb , it takes time to find your way- you go from playing against kids in college , to playing against grown arse men every week in the pro’s.

He sucks. Trade him to the Raiders for a 1. Suckers.

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8 hours ago, Hael said:

The fundamental problem here is that when you jettison your coaching staff all the players that don’t fit  are also out.

Except it takes longer  to rebuild with new pieces than it takes to cut.  So you end up with the terrible team syndrome where you are constantly rebuilding and firing your staff every two years because no one has time to make a team that fits their scheme.  Worse all the assets you throw out are massively devalued.

Gase will be gone in the next few months, or after the season is over, but Douglas doesn’t even have a long term coaching staff in place that he can build according to their specs.  It’s just a disaster of a situation, bc we can’t even rebuild properly yet.  It’s just a front office snafu of the highest order.

Your point here is part of the reason Gase and Tattoo need to be fired immediately. Need to get the process started ASAP.

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I hated drafting Quinnen, I think he’s soft, and I want us rid ourselves of all Maccagnan stink. 

Still, if you take emotion out of it, we’re better off keeping Q. He has flashed, and is on his rookie contract. Hopefully he’ll produce more when we add some additional pieces on defense. 

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3 hours ago, BCJet said:

What scheme doesn't use a free safety?

Maye has been playing more of a SS this year, but that’s not the point.  Some coaches want guys with more quickness, others value more speed and range, yet others are more interested in tackling and run support.  It’s rare that you get it all in the same package.  Further some safeties are really accustomed to certain defensive schemes and are terrible in the wrong system.

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

John Lynch won 6 games his first season and 4 his second.  Its not like he had immediate success.  Similarly, Ozzie Newsome won 4, 6, 6 & 8 in his first four seasons.  He did not have a winner until season 5.  Rebuilds take time.

Douglas is clearly tearing it down.  And it is ugly.  But it is also a commitment to a full rebuild like we have not seen before.  We have added first round picks.  We have a lot of cap space.  This is a full tear down/rebuild.  I am disappointed in the team this year.  The product on the field is terrible, and that is the team that JD is putting out there.  But until we see how he navigates the rebuild part of this, it is hard to judge him.  After ten losing seasons, it is hard to preach patience, but this is where we are.

Now, if we do not show significant progress over the next two seasons, I will lead the pitchform brigatde.  But for now, I am willing to be patient and not get too invested in this season.

I certainly understand and agree that a rebuild takes time. We are debating how that rebuild takes shape. What to keep, what to throw out. Most anything of value in this team from a year ago has been jettisoned in the form of trading away or not resigning.

The only person who publicly suggested that this team expected to do well this season is  Joe Douglas himself. Even Adam Gase was smart enough to keep his mouth shut on that score.

"The New York Jets are one of the most lightly regarded teams in the NFL -- and that makes them mad, according to general manager Joe Douglas".

"Our guys don't live in a bubble. We see the things that are said, we see the things that are written," Douglas said Monday in a Zoom call with reporters. "It angers a lot of people."

*

What we as fans are arguing over is small potatoes. What if any remaining components are used for a rebuild. There is not  much left  on this team worth saving, I feel QW is worth saving.

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10 hours ago, Hael said:

Let me break it to you as easily as I can, so that you're ready for it.  We aren't going to be good next year either!  There is no world in which a team full of 1st year rookies is going to be competitive, especially if we swap qbs.  This, even if we hit multiple hall of famers.  Heck, we'll probably be the youngest team in football next year

Also there is going to be a good amount of loss as well.  Take a player like Marcus Maye.  Talented kid..  Having a good but not great year.  However there is no guarantee he fits the scheme of the next coach.  So he might be gone.   We simply have no idea what we're talking about, and the degree of churn that we might have to deal with.  A player like QW might actually be very desirable for certain coaches and certain schemes.

Kicking out your headchoach and qb is like the equivalent of dropping a nuke on the franchise.  It takes *years* to rebuild from that.

Oo I didn't say next year, I'm saying we have a shot to have 5 first round picks, 3 second round picks, and 3 third round picks in 2 years. That will absolutely accelerate a rebuild when you factor in FA. I'd say it's not unreasonable to expect a playoff run in a 7 team format in 2022.

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7 hours ago, Gangrene said:

I agree in theory but that goal feels like a mirage to be able to have the luxury of hitting on all those players at all those different premium positions before deciding to hold onto ou home grown talent.

When you have an enduring football brand that has won multiple Super Bowls and has a long history of football credibility, with a little luck...that is doable.
For the Jets, we have to restore football credibility to attract the right staff, the right free agents.

Right now we are at less than zero, we need some home grown players rewarded and encouraged for their loyalty.

Jamal Adams was all about winning with the Jets until he wasn't. The constant  rebuild is killing morale inside the organization and has the stink of a rotting corpse for anyone approaching the jets right now.

That's the thing though, if you can have 2 of those 4 positions on rookie contracts (QB in particular) that sets you up for sustained playoff success.

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