After the Darnold debacle, has your feelings about the Jets changed

[More Cowbell]

Let's be honest, Darnold has been screwed 3 ways to Sunday by the Jets organization particularly by the Johnson's. This could have been Trevor Lawrence as easily as Darnold. Lawrence has a lot of talented players on Clemson. Darnold also had a lot of talented players USC, both had respectable coaching as well. That isn't and hasn't been the case on the Jets and this past 3 years is about the worst I have seen as far as this drought of talent. I don't think anyone could come up smelling like a rose at QB under these circumstances. We could be tanking for a better QB with Lawrence on the team just as we are with Darnold. 

My feelings about the Jets was always they just are about the worst talent evaluators in the league and a poorly run organization but I never imagined this. I never thought we would take a really highly respected QB prospect and just do nothing to help him and then just tank for the next shiny new toy and throw him on the scrap heap of failed Jets draft selections. If you don't agree, then tell me, how Darnold was given the opportunity to succeed with bad coaching, bad play calling, no OL, no #1 WR, no running game and now no defense or ST.. I mean every time the guy steps on the field he is backed up or  the other team just scored. Sam probably is hoping for FG's by the other team so he isn't starting from the 10. 

I have gone through the bad seasons. I just said, well, another lost season. Will just hope next season is better. This season, I am really starting to think why even bother getting hopes up for Lawrence. When Darnold was drafted, I ordered a Darnold Jersey that week. This year, I'm going to spend that $90 on a good bottle of Scotch. I mean what is the point. Do you really have confidence that the Jets are going to suddenly get it right. That JD was screwing up the majority of his moves on purpose but now he is going to get it all right? I don't. I think anything Lawrence or whoever we get is going to have to do it with no help from the team. We need Superman at QB to succeed here because look at the FA pickups and the draft picks that this team makes and has made even with the new GM. The only one you can feel god about is Becton. The FA OL that JD is supposed to be so good at getting have not been good. The OL is still weak in the middle. So now he is going to get this done or is he going to throw darts at a wall of name the same as every other Jets GM has done for years. 

So tell me, what is going to change with Lawrence, or Fields who I don't even know anything about but I am assuming he is playing well the same as Darnold was. What is this organization going to do differently that it hasn't done in the past 3 years?

[kdels62]

Sam Darnold now (or ever) is not as good as Trevor Lawrence was 2 years ago.

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I’m waiting to see what Douglas does the next 2 offseasons, specifically the draft. He’s at least addressed offensive positions in his first draft with Becton, Perrine and Mims. 
 

Mac drafts Darnold and then proceeds to draft 3 DTs after that and one 3rd overall. The man that drafted Safeties back to back.  That’s why we’re here. 

[sec101row23]

My feelings haven’t changed at all.   They’ve been incompetent and remain so until proven otherwise.   A lot of us saw this Darnold debacle coming.   If things stay the same it will be the same story with Trevor or Fields.   I fully anticipate them f**king up the next QB as well, that’s just what this franchise does.  I’m going to assume JD will be at least marginally better than Maccagnan, but I think we’ll be calling for his head in a few years.   I’m not going to declare JD or Trevor or Fields to be some savior because this franchise can’t get out of its own way.   

[Adoni Beast]

Definitely makes me feel more hopeless for this franchise. 

But this upcoming offseason (specifically what we do about HC & QB) will turn the franchise around or nail in the coffin it.

[More Cowbell]

14 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Sam Darnold now (or ever) is not as good as Trevor Lawrence was 2 years ago.

 

So that is what they are doing different? They are going to draft a better QB to give no help to? Wow, sign me the ef up for that. 

[More Cowbell]

10 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

I’m waiting to see what Douglas does the next 2 offseasons, specifically the draft. He’s at least addressed offensive positions in his first draft with Becton, Perrine and Mims. 
 

Mac drafts Darnold and then proceeds to draft 3 DTs after that and one 3rd overall. The man that drafted Safeties back to back.  That’s why we’re here. 

I think we can replace that statement with JD in 2 years. I have seen nothing to make me think he is a good talent evaluator. Let's call a spade a spade. Becton fell to him. All the other top OL prospects were gone. This is the same thing people have killed Mac over with Darnold. Other than that, I have seen no hope this guy can make a good pick.

[Lith]

My feelings about the team have not changed, they have been confrimed.  When rebuilding an offense, the QB should be one of hte last pieces of the puzzle.  Not the first.  We did it to Geno and we did it to Darnold.  Draft the QB, then throw him out there behind a patchwork OL, with a below average set of receivers and a bad running game.  Then we are shocked when the 21 year old QB struggles. 

We saw with Sanchez that you can win with a rookie QB if you insert him into an established offense with a solid OL, good receivers and a strong running game.  Problem with Mark is he never took the next step as the vets around him left/retired and we needed him to do more.  Also didn't help that Tanny went all in on 2009/10 so we didn't have the draft picks to replace the older guys who left.

We have a chance to do it differently this time around.  If we get the number one pick, I still draft Lawrence.  But I would have no problem making him sit for a year as we build that infrastructure around him.  We should have two more picks in the top 35 next year.  We should be able to add a starting WR and OL.  We have plenty of cap space.  Add a veteran starter or two to the mix (if we can convince anyone to come here).  Only run Lawrence out there when we know we have a comptent offense around him.

 

 

[playtowinthegame]

6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

So that is what they are doing different? They are going to draft a better QB to give no help to? Wow, sign me the ef up for that. 

No more USC quarterbacks.

[Biggs]

The wizard of Oz giving Darnold a brain, heart and courage wouldn't make him an elite NFL QB.

[Lith]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

I think we can replace that statement with JD in 2 years. I have seen nothing to make me think he is a good talent evaluator. Let's call a spade a spade. Becton fell to him. All the other top OL prospects were gone. This is the same thing people have killed Mac over with Darnold. Other than that, I have seen no hope this guy can make a good pick.

I agree with much of what you have said in this thread, but this is where I disagree.  He had a choice between several players who woudl have fit needsd at 11: Becton, Wirfs, Lamb, Ruggs, Jeudy were all on the board.  Becton was not the only obvious choice.  This was not Leonard Williams, consensus best prospect in the draft falling to him.  Or Darnold, consensus best QB falling to him.  He had options at 11 and chose Becton.  GIve him credit for that.

As for his draft, so few guys have played that it is hard to evaluate.  Becton when helathy is already a top 10 OT.  I will feel a lot better about JD if we have reason to believe in two or three other guys by the end of the season.  If Mims can get on the field and be productive, if Clark or Zuniga can get on the field and show they belong.  That happens, I will feel much better about JD.  The jury is still out.

[More Cowbell]

3 minutes ago, Lith said:

I agree with much of what you have said in this thread, but this is where I disagree.  He had a choice between several players who woudl have fit needsd at 11: Becton, Wirfs, Lamb, Ruggs, Jeudy were all on the board.  Becton was not the only obvious choice.  This was not Leonard Williams, consensus best prospect in the draft falling to him.  Or Darnold, consensus best QB falling to him.  He had options at 11 and chose Becton.  GIve him credit for that.

As for his draft, so few guys have played that it is hard to evaluate.  Becton when helathy is already a top 10 OT.  I will feel a lot better about JD if we have reason to believe in two or three other guys by the end of the season.  If Mims can get on the field and be productive, if Clark or Zuniga can get on the field and show they belong.  That happens, I will feel much better about JD.  The jury is still out.

I think even though some of us were thinking we might go WR, we all know JD kind of showed his hand early by saying he wanted to fix the OL and if there was a blue chip prospect out there at OL, he was taking him. The decision between Becton and Wirfs was an easy one, Becton was the better prospect. 

[JTJet]

Bold prediction:

Darnold wins comeback player of the year at some point in his career, with the Jets or not. 

Second bold prediction:

We miss out on Trevor Lawrence by one pick. 

Third not so bold prediction:

We dont win a Superbowl in the next 20 years. 

[dbatesman]

Darnold only started two years in college, turned the ball over a million times, and got worse from one year to the next. The Jets are a clownshoes operation, especially when it comes to quarterbacks, but there‘s a good chance he was always going to be bad.

[TheMo]

14 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think we can replace that statement with JD in 2 years. I have seen nothing to make me think he is a good talent evaluator. Let's call a spade a spade. Becton fell to him. All the other top OL prospects were gone. This is the same thing people have killed Mac over with Darnold. Other than that, I have seen no hope this guy can make a good pick.

People were coming at him over the becton pick. Wirfs or the wide receivers were available. Manny called Becton a huge risk. Think it’s bit disingenuous to say that was the obvious choice now. I think Mims and Perine can be good. Understand the Zuniga pick but don’t agree with it. Think injury prone players are rarely worth it before the 5th round. Also disagree with the Morgan pick. Still I think those first three will end up being very good. I think once again with Darnold they picked a less experienced qb and Mac proceeded not to support an already risky prospect. Get QBs with at least three seasons and the bust rate likely goes down. It’s again not that the extra year of seasoning is critical. But rather it increases sample size to ensure that what you are evaluating is legitimate. 

[Lith]

9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think even though some of us were thinking we might go WR, we all know JD kind of showed his hand early by saying he wanted to fix the OL and if there was a blue chip prospect out there at OL, he was taking him. The decision between Becton and Wirfs was an easy one, Becton was the better prospect. 

It is okay to give him credit for making a pick to address an area of need and the pick works out.  Not sure what more you could want from a draft pick.  It was a good pick -- a plug and play starter at a high value positoin of need.  Looks like it may be a home run.  But you want to criticize him for it. 

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Douglas.  Plenty of missteps in his first year.  Kahlil, Perriman, Robby.  Mcgovern has been disappointing so far. He deserves criticism.  But, imo, he also deserves credit for Becton.

[More Cowbell]

6 minutes ago, TheMo said:

People were coming at him over the becton pick. Wirfs or the wide receivers were available. Manny called Becton a huge risk. Think it’s bit disingenuous to say that was the obvious choice now. I think Mims and Perine can be good. Understand the Zuniga pick but don’t agree with it. Think injury prone players are rarely worth it before the 5th round. Also disagree with the Morgan pick. Still I think those first three will end up being very good. I think once again with Darnold they picked a less experienced qb and Mac proceeded not to support an already risky prospect. Get QBs with at least three seasons and the bust rate likely goes down. It’s again not that the extra year of seasoning is critical. But rather it increases sample size to ensure that what you are evaluating is legitimate. 

I agree Becton was a bit of a risk because guys as big as him aren't meant to move like him. It's sore of lime Porzingus when the Knicks took him. He was another freak that was too big to be that agile and fluid and we are seeing that come to fruition with all his injuries.  Becton did get injured bit I don't attribute it to his size, it's just bad luck but I think if you are going OL, between Wirfs and Becton, Becton was the pick. 

[T0mShane]

45 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Mac drafts Darnold and then proceeds to draft 3 DTs after that and one 3rd overall. The man that drafted Safeties back to back.  That’s why we’re here. 

That’s pretty much the cake here. In Macc’s master plan, Darnold’s receivers were supposed to be Chad Hansen and Ardarious Stewart.

[More Cowbell]

6 minutes ago, Lith said:

It is okay to give him credit for making a pick to address an area of need and the pick works out.  Not sure what more you could want from a draft pick.  It was a good pick -- a plug and play starter at a high value positoin of need.  Looks like it may be a home run.  But you want to criticize him for it. 

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Douglas.  Plenty of missteps in his first year.  Kahlil, Perriman, Robby.  Mcgovern has been disappointing so far. He deserves criticism.  But, imo, he also deserves credit for Becton.

I'm not really being critical. I'm just not prepared to say he proved anything. Even if he would had taken one of the three WR's, it would have been the best draft decision this team has made in 10 years, all 3 are going to be stars. It is nice the stars aligned for Becton. We at least have a LT. 

[TheMo]

22 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think even though some of us were thinking we might go WR, we all know JD kind of showed his hand early by saying he wanted to fix the OL and if there was a blue chip prospect out there at OL, he was taking him. The decision between Becton and Wirfs was an easy one, Becton was the better prospect. 

I think if you look back you’ll find that most had wirfs higher. The Becton pick typically was getting Bs and Cs. It really wasn’t obvious especially with wirfs being there. I mean I personally felt it was the right choice, but I also go read a lot of @RobR so I was biased haha. Again there was a lot of unfounded criticism on his pass blocking, but credit to Joe Douglas for cutting through the noise and taking the right guy. You know Mac wouldn’t have. 

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, TheMo said:

I think if you look back you’ll find that most had wirfs higher. The Becton pick typically was getting Bs and Cs. It really wasn’t obvious especially with wirfs being there. I mean I personally felt it was the right choice, but I also go read a lot of @RobR so I was biased haha. Again there was a lot of unfounded criticism on his pass blocking, but credit to Joe Douglas for cutting through the noise and taking the right guy. You know Mac wouldn’t have. 

I will give you that. mac probably would have drafted Epensa

[kdels62]

47 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

So that is what they are doing different? They are going to draft a better QB to give no help to? Wow, sign me the ef up for that. 

I just think there’s an over rating of Darnold, he required a whole operation to get him to good and a whole second operation to get him to great. The Jets did fail him but it was a much bigger task than people pretend it was. 

The difference is that Trevor Lawrence and (to a lesser extent) Trey Lance won’t need to be as protected as Darnold. Also this is a different regime. We have Becton, Mims, Crowder, and a league average OL - that’s better than what Darnold had.

[joewilly12]

Sam Darnold was given a raw deal here at this point he is damaged goods and best for all parties to move on. 

[Pennington]

This organization is complete trash from ownership on down. Darnold was put into an impossible situation. Hire Joe Brady and he will get the best out of Darnold.

I can live with Lawrence and trading Darnold though I think Sam is every bit as talented but if we get rid of Darnold for Fields or Lance I will never watch another Jets game. Seriously Sam is the most talented QB this team has drafted since Namath and they need to do what they can to surround him with real talent and a coaching staff that will get the best out of him because he can definitely be the franchise QB we haven't had since Namath.

[bealeb319]

Darnold is going to be brett favre. If we trade him away for peanuts he will be an absolute stud on a better team and might lay an egg every now and than that is my gut feeling

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[TheMo]

34 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I agree Becton was a bit of a risk because guys as big as him aren't meant to move like him. It's sore of lime Porzingus when the Knicks took him. He was another freak that was too big to be that agile and fluid and we are seeing that come to fruition with all his injuries.  Becton did get injured bit I don't attribute it to his size, it's just bad luck but I think if you are going OL, between Wirfs and Becton, Becton was the pick. 

Well less than that I think a core of Trevor Lawrence (or fields), Becton, Mims, Perine, Robinson (FA), Thuney (FA), and a 1st round C would be a decent starting place. 
 

As for Darnold I would treat him like Alex Smith. We look longingly at some of these other QBs but sitting them for a year isn’t unheard of. Let Darnold work under a new coach and see if he can be a placeholder until Lawrence proves he is definitively better. It lets the core players develop and Lawrence is forced to work out any kinks in his game. Also if Darnold is playing well enough it might get some better draft capital in a trade.

[Jetster]

38 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think we can replace that statement with JD in 2 years. I have seen nothing to make me think he is a good talent evaluator. Let's call a spade a spade. Becton fell to him. All the other top OL prospects were gone. This is the same thing people have killed Mac over with Darnold. Other than that, I have seen no hope this guy can make a good pick.

Considering most people knew this was a teardown & JD secured 2 firsts & a 3rd for Jamal Adams, I'd say that's a great start. Man, your tough on a guy coming into a situation who has had 1 draft to his credit. 

Every football publication & talking head stated that the NEW YORK JETS had the worst roster in the league last year and your through with the guy after 1 draft? You can't put the past on Joe Douglas. He signed guys THAT WOULD COME HERE to 1 year deals just to fill a 53 man roster. 

If you take a team like the Niners, they're in their 4th year of a rebuild & are very deep. But even they couldn't overcome so many injuries & got swept off the gridiron last week in NY Jet fashion giving up 42 points to Fitz & the Fins. This Jet offense hasn't played 1 game together in practice or in a regular season game. We were expecting to see Perriman, Mims, Crowder & Vyncint Smith. We were expecting Herndon to continue developing from his rookie performance & that certainly hasn't happened. And yet again the Oline hasn't put 3 games together as a complete unit. 

Another strange year, Covid, injuries, ridding ourselves of Bell who the Jets should never have signed. Outside of what will happen with Mosely, the last of the terrible 3 free agent contracts that idiot Macc consummated, I think the only direction for JD now is up. 

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

I just think there’s an over rating of Darnold, he required a whole operation to get him to good and a whole second operation to get him to great. The Jets did fail him but it was a much bigger task than people pretend it was. 

The difference is that Trevor Lawrence and (to a lesser extent) Trey Lance won’t need to be as protected as Darnold. Also this is a different regime. We have Becton, Mims, Crowder, and a league average OL - that’s better than what Darnold had.

First off, the OL is not average, it is below average, it is just not a disaster anymore. Also, who knows what Mims is going to be. Yes, he is fast and yes he is a big target but so are a lot of guys. We don't know how good he runs a pattern, we don't know if he gets the 50/50 ball, we don't even know if he can find the soft spot the QB wants him to run to. I hope he can do those things but the Jets have screwed up so many second round WR picks, I'm skeptical. Hope you are right about him.

Lastly, Darnold needs more help? How about the no help he has gotten. Would the prospects you listed do well in that environment?

[jetophile]

No, my feelings are the same. They're the same idiots they were before. Why parse the obvious.

Feelings! Ohwoahwoah feelings! I hate that song!

[New York Mick]

Darnold never had a chance and the people that think Trevor Lawrence is going to magically turn this franchise around are in for a huge letdown. 

[More Cowbell]

8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Sam Darnold was given a raw deal here at this point he is damaged goods and best for all parties to move on. 

I'm not arguing that. We really need to start over again. I just have no faith this team will do right by the new guy. 

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Considering most people knew this was a teardown & JD secured 2 firsts & a 3rd for Jamal Adams, I'd say that's a great start. Man, your tough on a guy coming into a situation who has had 1 draft to his credit. 

Exactly this.

Gase and Douglas have seen enough quarterbacks in their lives to know a good one from a bad one, that's part of the point of hiring such experienced football men.  I trust their judgement.  If we move on from Sam its because he's not good enough.

To date, Sam Darnold is a weaker version of Chad Pennington.  I don't even see him growing into a version of Mark Sanchez.  I leave it up to Gase to decide.

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

10 minutes ago, Pennington said:

This organization is complete trash from ownership on down. Darnold was put into an impossible situation. Hire Joe Brady and he will get the best out of Darnold.

I can live with Lawrence and trading Darnold though I think Sam is every bit as talented but if we get rid of Darnold for Fields or Lance I will never watch another Jets game. Seriously Sam is the most talented QB this team has drafted since Namath and they need to do what they can to surround him with real talent and a coaching staff that will get the best out of him because he can definitely be the franchise QB we haven't had since Namath.

I agree he is talented but we need to move on now. 

[kdels62]

10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

First off, the OL is not average, it is below average, it is just not a disaster anymore. Also, who knows what Mims is going to be. Yes, he is fast and yes he is a big target but so are a lot of guys. We don't know how good he runs a pattern, we don't know if he gets the 50/50 ball, we don't even know if he can find the soft spot the QB wants him to run to. I hope he can do those things but the Jets have screwed up so many second round WR picks, I'm skeptical. Hope you are right about him.

Lastly, Darnold needs more help? How about the no help he has gotten. Would the prospects you listed do well in that environment?

Darnold is broken. We helped break him, he was also a project, he was also a nonclutch, unintelligent, gunslinger with a mediocre arm and 0 chips on his shoulder.  We failed him but he also needed to be coddled.

Lawrence is built different and has a better skill set. Trey Lance has athleticism and talent out his ass, he can break a game with his legs if he has to and he has a chip on his shoulder. 

Beyond all of that you’re worried about the repeated mistakes of the organization. The team turned over its scouting department, GM, team president and analytics department in the past year. Give it a shot, it could fail but it isn’t the same thing that got us to this sad miserable place.

[More Cowbell]

11 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Considering most people knew this was a teardown & JD secured 2 firsts & a 3rd for Jamal Adams, I'd say that's a great start. Man, your tough on a guy coming into a situation who has had 1 draft to his credit. 

Every football publication & talking head stated that the NEW YORK JETS had the worst roster in the league last year and your through with the guy after 1 draft? You can't put the past on Joe Douglas. He signed guys THAT WOULD COME HERE to 1 year deals just to fill a 53 man roster. 

If you take a team like the Niners, they're in their 4th year of a rebuild & are very deep. But even they couldn't overcome so many injuries & got swept off the gridiron last week in NY Jet fashion giving up 42 points to Fitz & the Fins. This Jet offense hasn't played 1 game together in practice or in a regular season game. We were expecting to see Perriman, Mims, Crowder & Vyncint Smith. We were expecting Herndon to continue developing from his rookie performance & that certainly hasn't happened. And yet again the Oline hasn't put 3 games together as a complete unit. 

Another strange year, Covid, injuries, ridding ourselves of Bell who the Jets should never have signed. Outside of what will happen with Mosely, the last of the terrible 3 free agent contracts that idiot Macc consummated, I think the only direction for JD now is up. 

I'm sorry, the rebuilt OL that he hand picked is still below average. Every FA pickup he has made has been bad or below average. He hit a home run with  Becton but it has been a lot of strike outs since.