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More Cowbell

After the Darnold debacle, has your feelings about the Jets changed

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9 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Let's be honest, Darnold has been screwed 3 ways to Sunday by the Jets organization particularly by the Johnson's. This could have been Trevor Lawrence as easily as Darnold. Lawrence has a lot of talented players on Clemson. Darnold also had a lot of talented players USC, both had respectable coaching as well. That isn't and hasn't been the case on the Jets and this past 3 years is about the worst I have seen as far as this drought of talent. I don't think anyone could come up smelling like a rose at QB under these circumstances. We could be tanking for a better QB with Lawrence on the team just as we are with Darnold. 

My feelings about the Jets was always they just are about the worst talent evaluators in the league and a poorly run organization but I never imagined this. I never thought we would take a really highly respected QB prospect and just do nothing to help him and then just tank for the next shiny new toy and throw him on the scrap heap of failed Jets draft selections. If you don't agree, then tell me, how Darnold was given the opportunity to succeed with bad coaching, bad play calling, no OL, no #1 WR, no running game and now no defense or ST.. I mean every time the guy steps on the field he is backed up or  the other team just scored. Sam probably is hoping for FG's by the other team so he isn't starting from the 10. 

I have gone through the bad seasons. I just said, well, another lost season. Will just hope next season is better. This season, I am really starting to think why even bother getting hopes up for Lawrence. When Darnold was drafted, I ordered a Darnold Jersey that week. This year, I'm going to spend that $90 on a good bottle of Scotch. I mean what is the point. Do you really have confidence that the Jets are going to suddenly get it right. That JD was screwing up the majority of his moves on purpose but now he is going to get it all right? I don't. I think anything Lawrence or whoever we get is going to have to do it with no help from the team. We need Superman at QB to succeed here because look at the FA pickups and the draft picks that this team makes and has made even with the new GM. The only one you can feel god about is Becton. The FA OL that JD is supposed to be so good at getting have not been good. The OL is still weak in the middle. So now he is going to get this done or is he going to throw darts at a wall of name the same as every other Jets GM has done for years. 

So tell me, what is going to change with Lawrence, or Fields who I don't even know anything about but I am assuming he is playing well the same as Darnold was. What is this organization going to do differently that it hasn't done in the past 3 years?

100% agree and have been preaching the same thing. If it doesn’t change and they get TL he will fail too. At what point does someone step in and protect the Jets from the Jets. 
 

I mean Sam was regarded as a great prospect. TL is now regarded as. a “ generational talent”. If he comes here and falls on his face?? The league has to do something. Are you telling me the people who have kicked Sam to the curb will simply shrug their shoulders and just figure ( I guess Trevor wasn’t as good as everyone thought)? 
 

Conversely what will be the prevailing thought  when Sam leaves and succeeds elsewhere?

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56 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Darnold only started two years in college, turned the ball over a million times, and got worse from one year to the next. The Jets are a clownshoes operation, especially when it comes to quarterbacks, but there‘s a good chance he was always going to be bad.

Yep, if Darnold had a 25% chance of being good I'm on board with the idea that the Jets took that 25% down to 5%. I'm not however going to pretend we just spoiled some pristine prospect. 

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12 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Darnold is broken. We helped break him, he was also a project, he was also a nonclutch, unintelligent, gunslinger with a mediocre arm and 0 chips on his shoulder.  We failed him but he also needed to be coddled.

Lawrence is built different and has a better skill set. Trey Lance has athleticism and talent out his ass, he can break a game with his legs if he has to and he has a chip on his shoulder. 

Beyond all of that you’re worried about the repeated mistakes of the organization. The team turned over its scouting department, GM, team president and analytics department in the past year. Give it a shot, it could fail but it isn’t the same thing that got us to this sad miserable place.

Lol. Turned over the scouting Dept? Who did that? It was Gase. Are you telling me you have faith in that? And you obviously have a low option of Sam because none of the stuff you said about him are true. Sam is a prototype NFL QB in today's game but I do agree the team needs to move on

 It sucks but it is true

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Sam has been screwed, but it's still on him when the ball doesn't get thrown to the open receivers. 

Let's face it, if he was playing the way I though he would, even at 0-5 no one would be talking about Lawerence.

We'd be talking about trading down for the monster haul. 

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7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You really need to come to the realization that Gase was brought in to make Darnold a FQB and has failed miserably. 

You really need to come to the realization that Gase was brought in to be your oft-requested hard-assed "football man" to stop the Johnson's meddling and let him do his job.

SAR I

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

You really need to come to the realization that Gase was brought in to be your oft-requested hard-assed "football man" to stop the Johnson's meddling and let him do his job.

SAR I

You really need to realize that Gase was given Darnold coming off his rookie year and proceeded to ruin him to the point we are tanking for another QB while Darnold is still on his rookie deal.

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1 minute ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Sam has been screwed, but it's still on him when the ball doesn't get thrown to the open receivers. 

That's the thing.  The mistakes Darnold is making has nothing to do with coaching.  At least not at the NFL level.  In junior high school they teach about footwork, finding the open receiver, throwing a catchable ball, coming out of a huddle on time, throwing the ball away instead of taking a loss, and all the rest of the basics.

The more one looks at it the more one sees that Sam Darnold's problems are on Sam Darnold.

SAR I

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You really need to realize that Gase was given Darnold coming off his rookie year and proceeded to ruin him. 

You really need to realize that Sam's problems are JV level habits.  If they were correctible they would have been coached out of him by the staff at San Clemente high school, USC, or Jordan Palmer's House Of Pancakes.  Looks like Sam just needs a cold bucket of water as a wakeup call.  Perhaps getting rid of Le'Veon Bell and sending a message that 'no one is safe' will get Sam to pay attention to what he learned in Pop Warner.

SAR I

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I believe that Darnold was very badly served by this organization.  I still think he could be a very good QB in this league and if he doesn't do that with the Jets I hope he does it with another team.  I think he's a really good kid.  Between the Johnsons, Mccagnan, Gase and Douglas, he's been screwed.

I've been a fan for over five decades.  I would gladly root for another team if I could but that's just not possible.  I despise what the Johnsons have done and I have absolutely no faith that things will get better in the future.

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That's the thing.  The mistakes Darnold is making has nothing to do with coaching.  At least not at the NFL level.  In junior high school they teach about footwork, finding the open receiver, throwing a catchable ball, coming out of a huddle on time, throwing the ball away instead of taking a loss, and all the rest of the basics.

The more one looks at it the more one sees that Sam Darnold's problems are on Sam Darnold.

SAR I

I have to agree with this and I'm a Sam apologist to the core. 

 

I wish Gase learned from his Miami mistakes and brought a real offensive coordinator with him to the Jets.  Things may have been different for him if he was left as a No Nonsense/CEO type of coach.

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

You really need to realize that Sam's problems are JV level habits.  If they were correctible they would have been coached out of him by the staff at San Clemente high school, USC, or Jordan Palmer's House Of Pancakes.  Looks like Sam just needs a cold bucket of water as a wakeup call.  Perhaps getting rid of Le'Veon Bell and sending a message that 'no one is safe' will get Sam to pay attention to what he learned in Pop Warner.

SAR I

Gase was hired to build Sam into a FQB. He made him worse than when Bowles had him. If ruining a QB prospect was a crime, Gase and CJ would be in prison. 

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2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Gase was hired to build Sam into a FQB. He made him worse than when Bowles had him. If ruining a QB prospect was a crime, Gase and CJ would be in prison. 

He hasn't been irreparably damaged. Hire Joe Brady or Arthur Smith and you will see what Sam is capable of. Somehow Tannehill has become a good QB after being ruined by Gase.

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13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That's the thing.  The mistakes Darnold is making has nothing to do with coaching.  At least not at the NFL level.  In junior high school they teach about footwork, finding the open receiver, throwing a catchable ball, coming out of a huddle on time, throwing the ball away instead of taking a loss, and all the rest of the basics.

The more one looks at it the more one sees that Sam Darnold's problems are on Sam Darnold.

SAR I

A bigger crock I have never heard. How many passes were dropped when Flacco was the QB last week. Do you think this was a unique problem only Flacco had. The receivers on this team can't carltch a pass if it was dropped in their laps. 

He ran out of bounds once this season. Yeah it was stupid but you make it sound like he did every NFL game he has played in. And breaking the huddle late is a problem with the guy calling the plays. Get the play in on time and you don't have this issue.

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11 minutes ago, Pennington said:

No we don't have to move on from a 23 year old QB. If the Jets get the first overall pick and you are convinced that Lawrence is the best prospect since Andrew Luck I can understand moving on from Darnold. If the team picks in any other spot and drops Darnold for way inferior prospects like Fields or Lance it will be one of the biggest mistakes in franchise history.

Smart organizations like Pittsburgh and New Orleans will be lining up to trade for Darnold. To give this guy up without Lawrence as his replacement is such a Jets thing to do.

It's going to happen. I also agree with everything you wrote. 

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

So tell me, what is going to change with Lawrence, or Fields who I don't even know anything about but I am assuming he is playing well the same as Darnold was. What is this organization going to do differently that it hasn't done in the past 3 years?

This is really what it comes down to and quite frankly, the only thing that drafting Lawrence accomplishes is that the Jets reset the QB rookie contract back to year 1 to better align with their latest rebuild cycle timeline. They ruined a blue chip QB they drafted 3 years ago and will do the same with the new one as long as the Johnson's are still in charge.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

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Even Parcells screwed the Jets with the QB position. I am not sure if most of you know this but Peyton Manning wanted to play for Parcells and the family just wanted the team to guarantee that they would pick him. Of course with the Jets luck they wouldn't do that because Parcells had some stupid formula that to draft a QB he had to be a senior and had to have won I believe 28 college games. Manning was only a junior so Parcells essentially told him to go back to school. Imagine what this team could have been with Parcells coaching Peyton.

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The same people celebrating a tank now (why?) were saying we should Suck for Sam a few years ago. And pissed off when Bowles won one too many games...

If it's Lawrence, God help him.

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18 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

I just wish the Johnsons liked football.

I just wish the Johnsons had a clue about football. 

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7 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

This is really what it comes down to and quite frankly, the only thing that drafting Lawrence accomplishes is that the Jets reset the QB rookie contract back to year 1 to better align with their latest rebuild cycle timeline. They ruined a blue chip QB they drafted 3 years ago and will do the same with the new one as long as the Johnson's are still in charge.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

Yup. Why are people so gleeful about trusting the process?

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13 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Gase was hired to build Sam into a FQB. He made him worse than when Bowles had him. If ruining a QB prospect was a crime, Gase and CJ would be in prison. 

Year 1:  Darnold is careless, gets mono, cripples Gase's first year.  Gase and Darnold work well together on a strong second half finish.

Year 2:  Darnold spends 4 months quarantined with the top personal QB coach in the country, comes back to NJ for five minutes, games begin, he plays badly, gets hurt again, cripples Gase's second year.

Look, we didn't do Darnold any favors and the same lack of WR's and RB's that is hurting Gase is hurting Sam, we all get that.  Where we differ is in the details.  Sam's lack of W's and production can be blamed on a terrible roster. 

But Sam's inaccuracy, footwork, lack of vision, clock management, and decision-making is all on Sam.  Gase is here to teach Sam next-level stuff.  He can't because Sam can't manage the Pop Warner stuff.  That's a real problem.  He's not smart and he's injury prone.  Those are facts.  I wish they weren't.

SAR I

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2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Definitely makes me feel more hopeless for this franchise. 

But this upcoming offseason (specifically what we do about HC & QB) will turn the franchise around or nail in the coffin it.

This.

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13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Year 1:  Darnold is careless, gets mono, cripples Gase's first year.  Gase and Darnold work well together on a strong second half finish.

Year 2:  Darnold spends 4 months quarantined with the top personal QB coach in the country, comes back to NJ for five minutes, games begin, he plays badly, gets hurt again, cripples Gase's second year.

Look, we didn't do Darnold any favors and the same lack of WR's and RB's that is hurting Gase is hurting Sam, we all get that.  Where we differ is in the details.  Sam's lack of W's and production can be blamed on a terrible roster. 

But Sam's inaccuracy, footwork, lack of vision, clock management, and decision-making is all on Sam.  Gase is here to teach Sam next-level stuff.  He can't because Sam can't manage the Pop Warner stuff.  That's a real problem.  He's not smart and he's injury prone.  Those are facts.  I wish they weren't.

SAR I

Gase was hired to make Darnold into a FQB, if that means working on all this stuff you are complaining he can't do, then that is what you do. For every thing you are complaint about , more than half can be traced back to his coach which is Gase. There are also a lot of things Darnold can do well and Gase doesn't coach to any of it. 

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It’s amazing how after 3 years they did nothing to build around Sam. Really astonishing when you think about it. With Lawrence coming in here you’re at least starting him off with a franchise LT. The offensive line still needs improvement but it’s not nearly as inept as it was with Sam. 
 

it remains to be seen if Mims could be a #2 but they definitely need more weapons. I wouldn’t be surprised if Douglas gave out a big contract to one of these FA wrs coming up this year. 
 

in the draft there’s also a few tight ends who would make a big difference. Can land one of those guys with the Seattle pick 

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My opinion has grown worse of the organization because of the Darnold fiasco for many of the reasons you already posted. 

Regarding Douglas, his draft is still too early to grade, but most people had Wirfs rated ahead of Becton, yet Becton has been the best rookie OT this year when healthy. Douglas gets credit for that. I honestly think we need to wait until the end of the season because I have a strong sense that Mims and Hall will be hits at premium positions. 

Re free agency, Van Roten and McGovern are starting to play better. Fant has played well. The big screwup has been at WR and CB, which has been discussed ad nauseum. I think Douglas made a mistake by not pursuing Nelson Agholor (who was with Douglas in Philly). Agholor has been playing well for the Raiders. 

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Sam Darnold now (or ever) is not as good as Trevor Lawrence was 2 years ago.
 
this made me spit out my coffee

Sent from the Suicide Watch desk.

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2 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

I’m waiting to see what Douglas does the next 2 offseasons, specifically the draft. He’s at least addressed offensive positions in his first draft with Becton, Perrine and Mims. 
 

Mac drafts Darnold and then proceeds to draft 3 DTs after that and one 3rd overall. The man that drafted Safeties back to back.  That’s why we’re here. 

the jets are where they are because mac not only drafted mainly defense with his top picks but missed on soooooo many 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders.  his drafting of hack was hugely bad because it prevented him from considering either watson or mahomes.  and then he had to trade a ton of good draft picks to move to take darnold.  and i'm not criticising picking darnold. imo he had/has the talent to be a really good qb and that's okay.  i'll take a guy who knows how to play the game and makes good decisions over the guy whose flashy any day.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I'm sorry, the rebuilt OL that he hand picked is still below average. Every FA pickup he has made has been bad or below average. He hit a home run with  Becton but it has been a lot of strike outs since. 

I don’t think Fant has been bad? McGovern? They haven’t played enough together & Darnold has held onto the ball too long, missed WRs & doesn’t let it rip when a guys open quickly. 

There is a lot of moving parts in a successful offensive passing play. 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Gase was hired to make Darnold into a FQB, if that means working on all this stuff you are complaining he can't do, then that is what you do. For every thing you are complaint about , more than half can be traced back to his coach which is Gase. There are also a lot of things Darnold can do well and Gase doesn't coach to any of it. 

Honestly, I'd be killing Gase like the rest of you if I felt he deserved it.  I have no allegiance to him or any Jets head coach, since I'm a kid I've loved none of the hires and have expected all of the firings.

But I see a terrible roster that's been made even worse by injury and a quarterback making kindergarten mistakes.  I just can't hold it against the coach.  I blame God for the injuries and Darnold for the Pop Warner brain farts.  I'm trying to be objective.

SAR I

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Honestly, I'd be killing Gase like the rest of you if I felt he deserved it.  I have no allegiance to him or any Jets head coach, since I'm a kid I've loved none of the hires and have expected all of the firings.

But I see a terrible roster that's been made even worse by injury and a quarterback making kindergarten mistakes.  I just can't hold it against the coach.  I blame God for the injuries and Darnold for the Pop Warner brain farts.  I'm trying to be objective.

SAR I

And I blame Gase for not coaching the kid and allowing him to crawl into the shell we see him in. Darnold has gotten worse every season under Gase. I also blame Gase for the abysmal play calling we have seen. I mean what was the point of running the ball on 2nd and 30. What was the point of giving the ball to Adams, a guy that is a practice squad player on 4th and 1 instead of letting Darnold or Gore run it and the blaming it on Wesco in the presser. How do you let this stuff go without calling it out on someone? 

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9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Honestly, I'd be killing Gase like the rest of you if I felt he deserved it.  I have no allegiance to him or any Jets head coach, since I'm a kid I've loved none of the hires and have expected all of the firings.

But I see a terrible roster that's been made even worse by injury and a quarterback making kindergarten mistakes.  I just can't hold it against the coach.  I blame God for the injuries and Darnold for the Pop Warner brain farts.  I'm trying to be objective.

SAR I

And another thing. If you have read what I post here, you know I think Darnold can be a FQB with a team around him. I don't think he is the fundimentally unsound QB you do, but I know when to get off ride. It is over for Darnold here and I accept that. This is just how things go here. The team is tanking and it isn't to get a anyo e except his replacement. Guess who else is going to be replaced if we go 0-16. There is no way they can retain Gase after that and it's happening. How is it you are still defending him and his 32nd ranked O. 

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It's very upsetting what happened but Lawrence is a much better prospect. If we miss out on Lawrence or get him and fail to put a team around him, I will probably mentally check out. Not sure how the older fans keep doing it. I'll be 30 in a few months and the past 10 years have just been awful. I already for the first time am watching way less and going to red zone within the first quarter. 

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