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Trevor Lawrence is the answer: MERGED


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Just now, Jetsbb said:

If Mims and Perimen come back 100% with Darnold and this defense turns into last years defense they could easily beat the Dolphins, Raiders, and Chargers. We forget the Jets destroyed the Raiders last year.

All 3 of those teams are way better this year. We shouldn’t stand a chance. Douglas should take a stand and force the staff to sit everyone late in the season. Don’t mess around. 

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....   Did any of his friends go to the guys birthday party ?...   We might trade down for a ransom and turn this team around in one day.   Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app    

It’s a Draft Day reference, I think. Unfortunately, that’s a movie and this is an actual live train wreck into a garbage dump built over an Indian burial group on a nuclear weapon test site.

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20 hours ago, Rob Moore said:

Question:  Has tanking/attempting to tank ever truly worked for an NFL team? 
 

I know then bucs reportedly tanked a game to secure the #1 spot in order to draft Jameis.  After some promise he turned into a turnover machine and is gone. 

 

The colts reportedly did it once Manning was done in order to get Luck.  They had success with Luck but injuries piled up and he retired way before his time.

 

The goal of a tank is to acquire that most desirable rookie and as a result build a long term winning team and ultimately a super bowl.  Have these teams, or any other teams that tried to tank, actually  achieved these goals? 

 

It's certainly worked better than the Jets plan of sucking but not sucking enough to pick in the top 5.  

Andrew Luck won 33 games over his first 3 seasons (+ 3 postseason wins), including a 40-TD season and 3 Pro Bowl appearances.  Are you telling me you wouldn't have signed up for that if it was in the realm of possibility?

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15 hours ago, varjet said:
  • Gase stinks, but none of us thought that last year when he was hired.   We thought he could get it together. 
  • There was not a tank this year, even after Adams was traded.
  • Look at Tannehill and all of the other playersthriving after Gase, Darnold on the Jets, and other teams’ successes, and it is clear that Gase needs to go.  
  • But it should be a tank now.  Keep Gase this year, fire him in December, trade players, and get a new QB on a 4 year rookie deal.  That is the answer. 

Sooooooo many people knew that Gase was terrible and would never get it together.  

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18 hours ago, King P said:

Spurs didn't tank for Duncan. David Robinson was injured and out for the season, so of course they were terrible without him.

Several tanking examples have to do with calling off the dogs when a key player gets hurt.  Play the young guys and let the chips fall where they may rather than aggressively trying to improve the team to make up for the loss of the injured player.  I'm sure the Spurs could have traded away future assets for a veteran player to make up for Robinson's absence, if they had chosen to do so.

The 2011 Colts only sucked because of Peyton's injury, yes.  But the Colts could have also gone and signed a veteran QB to try to win a few games.  In fact they tried that initially by signing Kerry Collins.  But then he got a concussion, so they rolled with Curtis Painter the rest of the way en route to 2-14.

Seasons don't necessarily START as a tank, but they can certainly head in that direction based on early results.

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32 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

I’m not doing this to myself. I can’t get excited for a player this early. The Jets will F it up somehow. They’re gonna win useless games. 

This team has taken everything from me, I will not let it take my ability to dream hahaha.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

36-70 for 51%,  493 yards (246 yards per game) 2 tds in the two playoff games last year.  5 ints in his first three games last year vs Geo tech, Syracuse and texas A&M.

If Lawrence is the sure fire franchise  can't miss guy he needs to light it up in the playoffs this year.

He’s progressed every single year he’s played and he won the national championship by absolutely lighting up Alabama as a true freshman after stealing the starting job from an established starter.  He doesn’t need to prove a thing anymore.  The hype has substance to it.

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5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

He’s progressed every single year he’s played and he won the national championship against Alabama as a true freshman after stealing the starting job from an established starter.  He doesn’t need to prove a thing anymore.  The hype has substance to it.

People tend to forget 47-71 674 yards 6 TDS and 0 INTs from the playoff a year before.  

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36 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

He’s progressed every single year he’s played and he won the national championship by absolutely lighting up Alabama as a true freshman after stealing the starting job from an established starter.  He doesn’t need to prove a thing anymore.  The hype has substance to it.

Hackenburg was 'good' in his 1st year as well.  How do you account fro two pedestrian perforances in the two playoff games last year?

Here is my Lawrence to Jets take.

- Lawrence is a very good QB prospect.

- Lawrence will be the #1 pick in the next draft and deserving.

- If the Jets have the #1 pick they will take Lawrence.

- Many of the best QBs in the NFL these days have not been the #1 pick.

-  I am uneasy about guys who look great with  a team that totally overmatches the other team in talent and coaching.

- The Jets have almost no talent at all, even from last draft all we know about is that Becton is good.

- The same people that declare Gase will not be here next year so he will not affect Lawrence give no breaks to Darnold for have Gase stink as coach  now.

- The young QBs who do the best are those that go to teams that are at least partially built.  I want the Jets to build the team for a couple of years then bring in the QB of the future instead of bringing in yet another new guy to get his ass kicked for a few years.

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1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

No idea how anyone could do that unless they were being intentionally ignorant towards facts.

You guys going with the hackenburg line of evals, he was good his 1st year.  also anyone that ignored last years performances are being just as ignorant no?

This year will tell the tale in the college playoffs. 

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1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

Are you watching him today? He already is great. He’s a robot at QB 

Again he’s on Clemson playing against Georgia Tech. But he’s really good. Look if he comes to the Jets do you want him to start immediately or sit a year or more and watch like Aaron Rodgers did. Does Sam stay and compete with him or do they get someone like Flacco until he’s ready. For me unless Sam completely crashes I stay with him and trade the pick if we’re overall one. For any Qb we need better skill position players and O and D line. We could get a lot for that pick. The question is do we draft good players?

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16 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

This isn't boxing or tennis you can't win games by yourself in football

Everyone understands this.  But Darnold should be able to win more games than a replacement level QB, and he has never done this here.

People used to talk about Jamal Adams winning games here.  Why is it such a high demand for your QB, the most important position in all of team sports, to lift up the team beyond what an average QB would do?

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2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I hope NT. There are no guarantees Lawrence will be great. 

And?  If they really aren't sold on Lawrence you take someone else OR trade down for an enormous package of picks.

There's no scenario where picking 6th is better than picking 1st.  None.

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2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Look Lawrence is in the best college football program in the country. A lot of their success is because of him but they won a lot without him even with non NFL caliber QBs like Tajh Boyd. If he was on Georgia Tech instead of Clemson would he be that successful. 

If he was on Georgia Tech he would be running the triple option as a freshman.  So, no.  But that's a poor comparison.

QB's with loaded offenses in college can, and do, have success in the pros.  Deshaun Watson came from Clemson and has done pretty well for himself.

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20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You guys going with the hackenburg line of evals, he was good his 1st year.  also anyone that ignored last years performances are being just as ignorant no?

This year will tell the tale in the college playoffs. 

Agree to disagree here.  I think he’s done it all and isn’t compareable to Hack, but I do appreciate your evaluation.

FWIW regarding Sam, if we can’t get Lawrence, I’d be perfectly fine with giving Darnold another chance under someone other than Gase.

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34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Everyone understands this.  But Darnold should be able to win more games than a replacement level QB, and he has never done this here.

People used to talk about Jamal Adams winning games here.  Why is it such a high demand for your QB, the most important position in all of team sports, to lift up the team beyond what an average QB would do?

Please give me the name of ONE QB In last quarter century who performed well when they have had historically bad OL performances coupled with terrible or well below average Skill position players while adding in extremely poor offensive and HC coaching  and topped off with historically bad GM management?

Give me ONE?

I will wait......

and @Greenseed4 this answers in part why you can’t do it alone....

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1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

Please give me the name of ONE QB In last quarter century who performed well when they have had historically bad OL performances coupled with terrible or well below average Skill position players while adding in extremely poor offensive and HC coaching  and topped off with historically bad GM management?

Give me ONE?

I will wait......

 

Kyler Murray just last season.  As a rookie.

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1 hour ago, pdxgreen said:

Come on ride the tank... Hop on board!

I'm very much not a traditional tank guy.  I usually hate the idea of it, 

But this is a whole other situation, we have an all-time bad team when there's a generation QB prospect. Opportunity is just to good right now.

Would just be so Jetsy to be so bad and miss out by a game.  Just lose now and let's set this franchise up for the next 15 years.

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4 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Please give me the name of ONE QB In last quarter century who performed well when they have had historically bad OL performances coupled with terrible or well below average Skill position players while adding in extremely poor offensive and HC coaching  and topped off with historically bad GM management?

Give me ONE?

I will wait......

Still gotta take Lawrence if he's there.

I am thoroughly convinced Sam will have a very good career somewhere else.  What Mac and Gase did to this kid is disgraceful.

But TL is too good an opportunity to pass.  I have giving up on Sam but...

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12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Kyler Murray just last season.  As a rookie.

Ummm Kyler Murray has poor offensive coaching!  Hahahhaahhaha

 

Kykes had better WRs across the board. Johnson is better than anyone right now then we have in the Jets, even if he is running on fumes and the GM showed he was better than Mac cause he is still breathing...

You couldn’t have been serious with your answer..

Come on Man...

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8 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Please give me the name of ONE QB In last quarter century who performed well when they have had historically bad OL performances coupled with terrible or well below average Skill position players while adding in extremely poor offensive and HC coaching  and topped off with historically bad GM management?

Give me ONE?

I will wait......

and @Greenseed4 this answers in part why you can’t do it alone....

A QB who is more accurate than Sam will complete more passes, which would make his skill players (look) better. A QB who can make quick reads and get the ball out will make his OL (look) better. A QB that understands how to throw the ball away when nothing is there will make his coach look better. 
Let’s not mistake semantics of a QB not winning games “on his own” with one that can lose them despite a poor supporting cast, because I can find ample examples of a QB that has LOST a game on his own. 

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17 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ummm Kyler Murray has poor offensive coaching!  Hahahhaahhaha

 

Kykes had rrific WR across the board. Johnson is better than anyone right now then we have in the Jets, even if he is running on fumes and the GM showed he was better than Mac cause he is still breathing...

You couldn’t have been serious with your answer..

Come on Man...

 

He had a rookie HC just coming from the college ranks and had the # 26 pass blocking line in the NFL last season, per Football Outsiders. 

The year before Murray arrived, the org had just fired the HC and gotten rid of a top 10 pick QB after just 1 year.  Talk about dysfunction!

Other examples:

  • Andrew Luck, most of his career
  • Kirk Cousins, 2015-17 seasons with Washington
  • RG3, 2012 season with Washington
  • David Carr, 2004 Texans
  • Rich Gannon, late 90s Chiefs
  • Dan Marino, mid-late 80s Dolphins
  • Archie Manning, 1980 Saints

The 2010 Colts team that Manning willed to the playoffs was pretty terrible, too.  But they did have a good OL so he doesn't make the cut for what you're asking for.

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20 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

A QB who is more accurate than Sam will complete more passes, which would make his skill players (look) better. A QB who can make quick reads and get the ball out will make his OL (look) better. A QB that understands how to throw the ball away when nothing is there will make his coach look better. 
Let’s not mistake semantics of a QB not winning games “on his own” with one that can lose them despite a poor supporting cast, because I can find ample examples of a QB that has LOST a game on his own. 

You are changing what I was saying which is your right but it is certainly not what i was saying.  
 

Obviously if Sam Darnold played better he would “be” better.  That is true of  almost everyone in any profession, so that really isn’t saying much

My point is that no QB or player alone in a team game like NFL football can by themselves  overcome bad coaching, a lack of skill players, and historically bad management in the form of the GM and be successful.   

Indeed IMO it would be hard in individual sports like boxing or tennis to overcome similar sets  of handicaps let alone ask a QB in the NFL to overcome them  

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He had a rookie HC just coming from the college ranks and had the # 26 pass blocking line in the NFL last season, per Football Outsiders. 

The year before Murray arrived, the org had just fired the HC and gotten rid of a top 10 pick QB after just 1 year.  Talk about dysfunction!

Other examples:

  • Andrew Luck, most of his career
  • Kirk Cousins, 2015-17 seasons with Washington
  • RG3, 2012 season with Washington
  • David Carr, 2004 Texans
  • Rich Gannon, late 90s Chiefs
  • Dan Marino, mid-late 80s Dolphins
  • Archie Manning, 1980 Saints

The 2010 Colts team that Manning willed to the playoffs was pretty terrible, too.  But they did have a good OL so he doesn't make the cut for what you're asking for.

Interesting take...

You think a guy like Bates who wasn't even coaching in the NFL can be compared to HOF coach Shula for example; or Shannahan and Pagano to Gase.....

Shannahan isn't even worthy of a discussion but I for one look at Pagano as a HC and I would take him over Gase EVERY DAY of the year and twice on Sundays... but you disagree and I believe that you are entitled to you opinion but I couldn't disagree more.

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7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You are changing what I was saying which is your right but it is certainly not what i was saying.  

Obviously if Sam Darnold played better he would “be” better.  That is true of  almost everyone in any profession, so that really isn’t saying much

My point is that no QB or player alone in a team game like NFL football can by themselves  overcome bad coaching, a lack of skill players, and historically bad management in the form of the GM and be successful.   

Indeed IMO it would be hard in individual sports like boxing or tennis to overcome similar sets  of handicaps let alone ask a QB in the NFL to overcome them  

Look man, I saw Sam miss some easy throws, make some really bad throws, and exercise really poor decisions which contributed to our losing. A better QB could’ve done more with what we have.

If you want to micro-focus on my comment that Sam has the ability to disrupt the tank and win a couple games...you know, play like his job is on the line. He can do that. He has the opportunity to play better. FQBs can elevate the play of those around them and carry teams on their backs. It’s a thing. Sam did the opposite. He played a horrible game, and then padded stats in the 4th quarter. 

Nobody is debating whether football is a team sport. We are suggesting a better QB than Sam exists, and if he doesn’t improve his play, the FO will be justified in selecting one of them. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You are changing what I was saying which is your right but it is certainly not what i was saying.  
 

Obviously if Sam Darnold played better he would “be” better.  That is true of  almost everyone in any profession, so that really isn’t saying much

My point is that no QB or player alone in a team game like NFL football can by themselves  overcome bad coaching, a lack of skill players, and historically bad management in the form of the GM and be successful.   

Indeed IMO it would be hard in individual sports like boxing or tennis to overcome similar sets  of handicaps let alone ask a QB in the NFL to overcome them  

 

 

All valid points.  But to me, the key question is not why has he been bad, it is when can he be good and what will it take to turn him around.  He is 2 1/2 seasons into a rookie contract.  Has been handled terribly and underperformed.  The lack of support he has gotten has been criminal.  But he locks onto primary receivers, bails out of the pocket early, holds the ball too long, does not seem to see the field well and still makes rookie mistakes.

If we are a rebiulding team, which we are, do you stick with a 24 year old Darnold heading into year 4 of his rookie deal.  Or do you find the next QB to build around, espeically if we have a top 3 pick.

If it is up to me, I am taking the new guy and resetting the rookie deal rather than trying to "fix" Sam when his payday is a year away.  That could change if Darnold lights it up over the second half of the season.  Barring that turnaround, I am ready to move on.

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Just now, Greenseed4 said:

 

Nobody is debating whether football is a team sport. We are suggesting a better QB than Sam exists, and if he doesn’t improve his play, the FO will be justified in selecting one of them. 

 

I agree with this..

I 100% agree with these points.

These statements I can agree with and I have never disagreed with this.  I did NOT want Darnold drafted, wanted Mahomes and so on so I am hardly a Sam or bust guy.  I just think we haven't set any QB on the NYJ up for success and it a disgrace to blame it all on Darnold.

If we can get a better QB in here do it......I am a Jets Fan....

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22 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

If the Jets put us through a purposeful 0-16 season and Trevor Lawrence isn't the next Peyton Manning or snubs us like the actual Peyton Manning ... I don't think there's any coming back from that. 

ONE MORE TIME, Peyton didnt snub us.

The opposite is more accurate, his father wanted him to be a Jet and Parcells wouldn't guarantee the pick.

Can anyone get it right

 

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4 minutes ago, Lith said:

All valid points.  But to me, the key question is not why has he been bad, it is when can he be good and what will it take to turn him around.  He is 2 1/2 seasons into a rookie contract.  Has been handled terribly and underperformed.  The lack of support he has gotten has been criminal.  But he locks onto primary receivers, bails out of the pocket early, holds the ball too long, does not seem to see the field well and still makes rookie mistakes.

If we are a rebiulding team, which we are, do you stick with a 24 year old Darnold heading into year 4 of his rookie deal.  Or do you find the next QB to build around, espeically if we have a top 3 pick.

If it is up to me, I am taking the new guy and resetting the rookie deal rather than trying to "fix" Sam when his payday is a year away.  That could change if Darnold lights it up over the second half of the season.  Barring that turnaround, I am ready to move on.

You are right...

This is a fair point, if Lawrence is way better than Darnold and we have a chance to get him of course we should get him!

The Jets IMO have nice owners  as people but have in general, up until now been poorly run and I just pray that changes going forward.

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13 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

FQBs can elevate the play of those around them and carry teams on their backs. It’s a thing. Sam did the opposite. He played a horrible game, and then padded stats in the 4th quarter. 

 

Its nothing more than total cliche to make this kind of statement and apply it to this team as if its real.  No QB, none could elevate the play of the dreck we have at WR, behind this OL and with the support of these RBs into a unit that could move the ball with any consistency, never mind to put enough points on the board to make this team competitive.  No QB is carrying this team on their back.  Its not a thing and something no QB should be asked to do, never mind a 23 year old 2nd and now 3rd year QB with less than 2 full seasons of experience.  Hampered by a HC who cant even begin to call a game.

You are severely short changing the lack of talent and what it means to this QB and team

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