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neckdemon

Realistic Trade Down Compensation for Trevor Lawrence

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I'm not sure there is a universe where we could enter the draft  with the #1 pick and still have confidence that Darnold is our franchise QB. 
But hypothetically speaking, we could probably get that, if not more,  for Lawrence. 
Darnold has had no weapons and one of the worst offensive lines in the passed two years. His offensive genius coach also has done him no favors...is it a wonder he has regressed. I have absolute confidence that darnold can and will be a franchise qb either for us or for a team we trade him to if we took Lawrence.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And if teams love Lawrence that much, it begets the question:  Why shouldn't the Jets, who need a QB, just go ahead and take him?  I can't imagine a situation where Joe Douglas just doesn't like TL as a prospect.

All I am saying is that I don't close my ears to offers. Someone my just blow me away. 

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Common sense would dictate the following - If Darnold plays well the rest of the way and wins enough games to prove he's the Jets QB in 2021 and beyond, he will knock us off of the #1 pick.  If things remain as they are and the Jets continue their miserable play and Darnold continues to struggle, we will be in line to get the #1 pick.    

Of course there s a 3rd scenario - Darnold struggles and plenty of questions still remain after the season is over, but he manages to squeak out just enough wins to knock us off the #1 pick and we enter 2021 without Lawrence and are no closer to determining if Darnold is our guy or not. 

 

You know scenario #3 is happening, as sure as the sky is blue.

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The NY Jets haven't had a franchise QB in 51 years. 

The NY Jets haven't won anything in 51 years. 

Strange mind? 

I am quite sure that you and I don't agree on the definition of "franchise."   If you make winning a super bowl part of your definition of franchise, then how do you decide that you have a franchise QB just from having the #1 overall?  Top prospects in my memory have been Luck, Manning, Aikman, George, and Elway.  All were more highly regarded than Lawrence.  

By the way, Namath was on the Jets until 44 years ago.  Having a "franchise" QB doesn't mean you are going to win the super bowl.

In conclusion, very much so.

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6 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Common sense would dictate the following - If Darnold plays well the rest of the way and wins enough games to prove he's the Jets QB in 2021 and beyond, he will knock us off of the #1 pick.  If things remain as they are and the Jets continue their miserable play and Darnold continues to struggle, we will be in line to get the #1 pick.    

Of course there s a 3rd scenario - Darnold struggles and plenty of questions still remain after the season is over, but he manages to squeak out just enough wins to knock us off the #1 pick and we enter 2021 without Lawrence and are no closer to determining if Darnold is our guy or not. 

 

You know scenario #3 is happening, as sure as the sky is blue.

 

 

 

what about the scenario that Darnold rips Gase and says we need to play better and have better playcalling, give ourselves a chance to win?

I think in that scenario it would make things much more difficult 

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55 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

 * * * 

@Scott Dierking I had you on ignore for awhile why did i make the mistake of taking you off. 

..could it be  Luv ?   :Loveheart:

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12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Ozzie Newsome traded up for Jackson, Flacco and Boller.  All three.  To be fair, Jackson and Boller weren't their first selections in that draft, but he obviously has a value on the player and doesn't pass the QB up when they are there.  He literally didn't let any of the 3 just fall to him. 

 

Poorly worded. He let them fall to where he felt he was getting value selecting them (even with a trade up). My points are: 1) I don't think the truly serious talent evaluators like the idea of putting so much stock into a QB.  You hear far less about missing on a DE in the top 3 than you do about missing on a QB; and 2) I think they value multiple first and second round picks over the course of 2 years over a one time top pick because they are building a team and trust that they will find a guy for QB and figure it out.  

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3 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

What the hell does Luck have to do with this? Btw, he was having a pretty fine career before his retirement.

I think my point is that with all your eggs in the trevor lawrence basket you run the risk of losing trevor lawrence. if a team offers their entire 2021 draft plus, lets say 2022 and 23 1st rounders and, 2023 and 24 2nd rounders and 2022 and 23 3rd rounders i think you start listening very carefully.

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am quite sure that you and I don't agree on the definition of "franchise."   If you make winning a super bowl part of your definition of franchise, then how do you decide that you have a franchise QB just from having the #1 overall.  Top prospects in my memory have been Luck, Manning, Aikman, George, and Elway.  All were more highly regarded than Lawrence.  

By the way, Namath was on the Jets until 44 years ago.  Having a "franchise" QB doesn't mean you are going to win the super bowl.

In conclusion, very much so.

The Super Bowl is still the prize last time I checked. 

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9 hours ago, jgb said:

It’d have to be a lot. Hershal walker or Ricky Williams a lot. Probably more because QB.

Redskins gave up 3 first rounders for RG3.

If it's that plus, have to think about it

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2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Ok what do you want me to say it seems you aren't happy until someone agrees with you. 

The Ricky Williams trade helped no one. 

I wouldn't trade the #1 pick opportunity to draft Trevor Lawrence for any offer. 

You ride my ass like a diaper so be treated like one. 

@Scott Dierking I had you on ignore for awhile why did i make the mistake of taking you off. 

 

so you are the jets GM and i am a GM of  team in the top 10. I offer you my entire 2021 draft plus my next 2 years 1sts and 3rds, plus 2023 and 2024 2nd round picks. so thats:

1st round picks - 3 (2021, 22 and23)

2nd round picks - 3 (2021, 23 and 24) 

3rd round picks - 3 (2021, 22 and 23)

2021 4th - 7th round picks

 

you don't even entertain it or make a counter offer for more picks? or maybe even adding  a player?

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9 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

How did it all work out? 

well....for washington they didn't make the right moves with what they got. but take a look at this link for what the cowboys got from the blockbuster trade of herschel walker. it pretty much built them a dynasty that won 3 superbowls. this is the type of thing the jest could possibly do if someone were willing to make a monumental trade for trevor lawrence:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade

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24 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

so you are the jets GM and i am a GM of  team in the top 10. I offer you my entire 2021 draft plus my next 2 years 1sts and 3rds, plus 2023 and 2024 2nd round picks. so thats:

1st round picks - 3 (2021, 22 and23)

2nd round picks - 3 (2021, 23 and 24) 

3rd round picks - 3 (2021, 22 and 23)

2021 4th - 7th round picks

 

you don't even entertain it or make a counter offer for more picks? or maybe even adding  a player?

Nope the QB starved hungry NY Jets organization needs a QB. 

Nothing else matters until you secure a franchise QB. 

The QB stirs the drink. 

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15 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

well....for washington they didn't make the right moves with what they got. but take a look at this link for what the cowboys got from the blockbuster trade of herschel walker. it pretty much built them a dynasty that won 3 superbowls. this is the type of thing the jest could possibly do if someone were willing to make a monumental trade for trevor lawrence:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade

Cowboys got lucky and draft well the NY jets history isn't that way, lucky we get 1 decent draft pick a year. 

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30 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

so you are the jets GM and i am a GM of  team in the top 10. I offer you my entire 2021 draft plus my next 2 years 1sts and 3rds, plus 2023 and 2024 2nd round picks. so thats:

1st round picks - 3 (2021, 22 and23)

2nd round picks - 3 (2021, 23 and 24) 

3rd round picks - 3 (2021, 22 and 23)

2021 4th - 7th round picks

 

you don't even entertain it or make a counter offer for more picks? or maybe even adding  a player?

Time to wake up. That’s never happening not even close. 
 

The last trade for the top pick was for Goff and the Titans got 2 2’s, 2 3’s and the following years 1st. 

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40 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

I think my point is that with all your eggs in the trevor lawrence basket you run the risk of losing trevor lawrence. if a team offers their entire 2021 draft plus, lets say 2022 and 23 1st rounders and, 2023 and 24 2nd rounders and 2022 and 23 3rd rounders i think you start listening very carefully.

Sure, you listen carefully and say no thank you. Then you pick the generational talent and hope he works out, like you would with any other draft pick. 

You don’t trade away a top flight QB prospect who has a high chance of being successful for a bunch of lottery tickets, especially when you’re the Jets. 

Amazing how the contrarians are overthinking this Lawrence thing. The math is simple: Jets have been without a franchise QB for 40+ years + QB is the most important position by far + Lawrence is available = you draft him and don’t look back. 

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22 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Time to wake up. That’s never happening not even close. 
 

The last trade for the top pick was for Goff and the Titans got 2 2’s, 2 3’s and the following years 1st. 

lol @ comparing goff to lawrence though

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5 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

lol @ comparing goff to lawrence though

Not comparing anyone. I’m giving you facts of what happened. Not your madden scenario. 

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56 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

well....for washington they didn't make the right moves with what they got. but take a look at this link for what the cowboys got from the blockbuster trade of herschel walker. it pretty much built them a dynasty that won 3 superbowls. this is the type of thing the jest could possibly do if someone were willing to make a monumental trade for trevor lawrence:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade

The issue is the Cowboys already had their franchise QB.  If we knew Sam could be that guy, then you look to take in a huge draft haul.  

I understand Keyshawn's point that putting Lawerence on this team won't do much, and I can see how trading back for multiple high picks can build a team around Darnold but we already have multiple first's and cap space so Lawrence will have a better team around him here plus a better coach.  

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4 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The NFL top prize is the Super Bowl trophy. 

Almost only counts in horse shoes and had grenades. 

By your “analysis” Trent Dilfer and Rex Burkhead belong in the HOF over Dan Marino and Barry Sanders. 

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7 hours ago, Francis Sawyer 37 said:

Precisely.

QB is the most important position on the team and the hardest to find. Mahomes turned the Chiefs around. Ben brought the Steelers back to life. The Packers were mediocre until Favre showed up. The Broncos have been trying to replace the loss of Elway at QB. If Lawrence is for real he would be the best Jets QB since Namath.

Mahomes did not turn the Chiefs around, they were a good team with Alex Smith.  They went to the playoffs his 3 years there.

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15 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Eagles and Ravens. That's where JD has ties. He likely will view drafting a QB like they do. Ravens are fine with building their team and taking a QB in the mid to late first round. The Eagle probably wish they never made the trade with Cleveland to move up to draft Wentz.  I see it as a window as to how JD might view it. Drafting a QB is putting the cart before the horse. He can pass on Lawrence because even if Lawrence succeeds elsewhere it doesn't mean he would succeed here. You need the infrastructure in place to help a young QB to succeed.

Youre right Sonny. The Chiefs pretty much had the infrastructure in place and basically needed a Mahomes. That is one way to build. The Seahawks were another team that just needed a solid QB though Wilson is just as good as Mahomes if not better.

You can also build around a franchise QB. The Bengals and Browns have pretty much followed that course. If you and the others are convinced that the Jets would ruin Lawrence then how is a less sought after QB going to make it with the Jets? He is not.

I will take my chances with the QB who has thrown 13 INTs to date in 3 seasons.

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8 hours ago, adb280z said:

Mahomes did not turn the Chiefs around, they were a good team with Alex Smith.  They went to the playoffs his 3 years there.

And lost with Smith never winning a post season game.

1993 was the last KC post season win until Mahomes showed up in 2018. A 25 year drought. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/

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NYJ Trade:

1st Rounder (1st overall pick)

3rd Rounder (SEA)

3rd Rounder (2022)

JAX Trade:

1st Rounder (Top 5 projected)

1st Rounder (LAR)

2nd Rounder

2nd Rounder (Vikings)

1st Rounder (2022)

DE Josh Allen

Josh Allen saves us from using one of our premium picks on a pass rusher. The Rams pick will definitely land in the 20's before the Seahawks. The Jags and Vikings 2nd rounder are top 40 picks. As much of an overkill as it may sound, we'll probably be better off trading out once more of the Jags picks. Top prospects such as Parsons, Fields, Sewell and Rousseau will be in high demand, unless we have interest in taking them for ourselves.

1st Jaylen Waddle, WR, Bamba 

1st Pat Freiermuth, TE, PSU

1st Creed Humphrey, C, Oklahoma 

2nd Tamorrion Terry, WR, FSU

2nd Tyson Campbell, CB, Georgia 

2nd Najee Harris, RB, Alabama 

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17 hours ago, neckdemon said:

I think my point is that with all your eggs in the trevor lawrence basket you run the risk of losing trevor lawrence. if a team offers their entire 2021 draft plus, lets say 2022 and 23 1st rounders and, 2023 and 24 2nd rounders and 2022 and 23 3rd rounders i think you start listening very carefully.

 

I question the collective intelligence of this board when they decline to entertain this scenario ^^... TL is not the only way to a lombardi. If you land muster a kings ransom of legendary proportions, your franchise is going to be robust with talent and can win in a variety of ways - including with Mac Jones the next year, or Dick Dick McClain, etc. 

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7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

I question the collective intelligence of this board when they decline to entertain this scenario ^^... TL is not the only way to a lombardi. If you have muster a kings ransom of legendary proportions, your franchise is going to be robust with talent and can win in a variety of ways - including with Mac Jones the next year, or Dick Dick McClain, etc. 

Exactly.  Over the last 20 years no #1 overall QB not named Manning has won the super bowl.   Wentz went #2 overall, but he, like every other non-Manning was not even the 1st QB selected his draft year.  There were a bunch more in the earlier group - Elway, Aikman, but c'mon.  You need a QB to win the Big Game, but #1 overall is not the only way to get a QB.. 

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22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Exactly.  Over the last 20 years no #1 overall QB not named Manning has won the super bowl.   Wentz went #2 overall, but he, like every other non-Manning was not even the 1st QB selected his draft year.  There were a bunch more in the earlier group - Elway, Aikman, but c'mon.  You need a QB to win the Big Game, but #1 overall is not the only way to get a QB.. 

You're pissing into wind here though... 

Posts like this below vv with "arms folded, and a brooklyn chip on my shoulder" stance are what the majority here can't see past. It's the same mentality that gets Le'veon Bell a contract here.. You can practically hear Ray Liotta - "you kidding, guy's a stud. best back in the league. And he's gonna be fresh"

Blinders. 

17 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

Sure, you listen carefully and say no thank you. Then you pick the generational talent and hope he works out, like you would with any other draft pick. 

You don’t trade away a top flight QB prospect who has a high chance of being successful for a bunch of lottery tickets, especially when you’re the Jets. 

Amazing how the contrarians are overthinking this Lawrence thing. The math is simple: Jets have been without a franchise QB for 40+ years + QB is the most important position by far + Lawrence is available = you draft him and don’t look back. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You're pissing into wind here though... 

Posts like this below vv with "arms folded, and a brooklyn chip on my shoulder" stance are what the majority here can't see past. It's same mentality that gets Le'veon Bell a contract here.. You practically hear Ray Liotta - "you kidding, guy's a stud. best back in the league. And he's gonna be fresh"

Blinders. 

 

Comparing the signing of Bell to drafting Lawrence is so idiotic it's mind boggling. Talk about blinders.

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23 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

I question the collective intelligence of this board when they decline to entertain this scenario ^^... TL is not the only way to a lombardi. If you land muster a kings ransom of legendary proportions, your franchise is going to be robust with talent and can win in a variety of ways - including with Mac Jones the next year, or Dick Dick McClain, etc. 

Dick Dick McClain can spin it though.    You could even trade out of 1 and still get Fields.  Until we see who is drafting where this becomes a tedious conversation.  My fear is that if the Jets do have #1 overall that JD isn’t even going to be able to make the decision, the Johnson brothers will be running up to podium with the draft card all filled out.   

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1 minute ago, BroadwayRay said:

Comparing the signing of Bell to drafting Lawrence is so idiotic it's mind boggling. Talk about blinders.

Is it though? It's not about the player - it's about the unwillingness to entertain different lenses. I like Lawrence, and he's easily the favorite option right now for taking a step in the right direciton - but to take the Ray Liotta stance is just mind bogglingly ignorant. The "best QB in the draft" has equated to how many Lombardis in the last 25 years?

A loaded roster is going to take a lot further than putting everything on your QBs back. Just ask Sam. 

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Dick Dick McClain can spin it though.    You could even trade out of 1 and still get Fields.  Until we see who is drafting where this becomes a tedious conversation.  My fear is that if the Jets do have #1 overall that JD isn’t even going to be able to make the decision, the Johnson brothers will be running up to podium with the draft card all filled out.   

god... what a terribly horrifying vision you just painted. If i could get one wish for this team, it would be a competent GM with total control. 

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