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LionelRichie

Nothing to blow up, nothing to build around

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At the tail end of the Rex years there was a call to "blow it up" and rebuild.   Now that we're in year 6 of the rebuild there's officially nothing left to blow up and nothing to build around.   The Jets have the worst roster in the NFL with at most 4 players who could start for another NFL team.  There are no pieces left to trade and other than Becton there is no talent at impact positions to build around.   No CB's, no pass rushers, no WR's, and ? at QB.     

At this point it seems like this team is in a vicious cycle of suck.   Idzik, Macagnan, and now Douglass can't seem to do anything right to the point where you wonder if the franchise really is cursed.   It's almost inconceivable to not have a single 1st rd pick from 2010-2017 on the roster right now.   Most of the picks are out of football entirely, an historic level of GM ineptitude.   We took Quinton Coples AND Dee Milliner in the same draft -wtf? 

Douglass entire 2020 draft class is injured.   The whole class.  2020 is a weird year with no off-season, but the entire class?    Parcells turned it around in 2 years so I guess there's some hope that history repeats but this beaten down franchise is at such rock bottom that you almost know they're going to blow the #1 pick with a meaningless week 17 win. 

I've pretty much tuned out the NFL but like all Jet fans we just want some hope and a reason to stick with the team.    Hopefully it starts with a new HC who can turn it around.  Seems like that guy could have been Rhule but of course we passed on him too.  

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29 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

At the tail end of the Rex years there was a call to "blow it up" and rebuild.   Now that we're in year 6 of the rebuild there's officially nothing left to blow up and nothing to build around.   The Jets have the worst roster in the NFL with at most 4 players who could start for another NFL team.  There are no pieces left to trade and other than Becton there is no talent at impact positions to build around.   No CB's, no pass rushers, no WR's, and ? at QB.     

At this point it seems like this team is in a vicious cycle of suck.   Idzik, Macagnan, and now Douglass can't seem to do anything right to the point where you wonder if the franchise really is cursed.   It's almost inconceivable to not have a single 1st rd pick from 2010-2017 on the roster right now.   Most of the picks are out of football entirely, an historic level of GM ineptitude.   We took Quinton Coples AND Dee Milliner in the same draft -wtf? 

Douglass entire 2020 draft class is injured.   The whole class.  2020 is a weird year with no off-season, but the entire class?    Parcells turned it around in 2 years so I guess there's some hope that history repeats but this beaten down franchise is at such rock bottom that you almost know they're going to blow the #1 pick with a meaningless week 17 win. 

I've pretty much tuned out the NFL but like all Jet fans we just want some hope and a reason to stick with the team.    Hopefully it starts with a new HC who can turn it around.  Seems like that guy could have been Rhule but of course we passed on him too.  

Don't hold your breath on the turn around...I've been doing that for about 50 years.

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The NY Jets have been torn down and rebuilt more times imaginable.

Here we sit 0-6 talking about it again. 

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Now that Macc (worst gm of all time) is gone, hopefully we can build properly around the QB this time. Credit to Sam for dragging us through the mud for past few years. The teams winless without him with historically bad numbers, and won a handful of game and competed with him. Hopefully JD can add some more OL and WRs with our cap space / Seattle pick and early 2. The defense will still be awful but hopefully the offense can be ok.  

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4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

This tear down is different.  This is one of the most efficient tear downs and tanks I have seen in well over 50 years of watching Jets football.  The efficiency of this tear down is in stark contrast to other Jets tear downs which weren't really tear downs.  They were more like a rot out and fall downs.  This actually looks like a planed tear down.  I'm inclined to believe this is actually a plan rather than incompetence.  Of course that's to be determined. 

 

This a total tear down, all the way to the foundation. It is quite possible that in 2yrs the only players left from now will be the 2020 draft picks.

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25 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The NY Jets have been torn down and rebuilt more times imaginable.

Here we sit 0-6 talking about it again. 

I can't remember the last time we did a rebuild.  We suck at that too...  after we let Geno go and MAC came in, we all talked about the rebuild BUT we stayed at QB with journeymen for 4 years missing out on franchise changing players such as  Wilson and Mahommes.

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1 hour ago, LionelRichie said:

At the tail end of the Rex years there was a call to "blow it up" and rebuild.   Now that we're in year 6 of the rebuild there's officially nothing left to blow up and nothing to build around.   The Jets have the worst roster in the NFL with at most 4 players who could start for another NFL team. 

This is due, in large part, to noisy fans who fly planes, demand change, and want instant gratification.  So for the better part of the last 20 years the Johnson's fire the coach, fire the GM, bring in a bunch of expensive free agents, watch us go 8-8 or 9-7, pretend its progress, and kick the can of the rebuild down the road.

Well, it's time to pay the piper.  And that time is now.  And it's going to be hard for awhile.  But when we come out of it we will be younger, hungrier, and have money tied up in high character players who play the right positions.  We'll have a HC and a GM who have built their own team in their own image.  We'll have a franchise quarterback.  And we'll be set for decades of sustained success like the Chiefs, Ravens, and Steelers.

SAR I

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If JD "went for it" this year, taking chances, spending more money the Johnson's likely did not have, and not drafting a long term potentially cheap backup QB, etc., I think that may have gotten us to 4-12.  A crappy team that does not get a top replacement QB, and ends up with a DT or S in the draft.

The Jets also needed to sign alot of players this past off season.  They had relatively few players under contract.  They were not loaded in cap space.  They have cap space now because of Winters, Adams and others.  

From what I understand, JD also tried to sign Thuney, which would have been smart.  He avoided Conklin, which may have been a better idea for what he is getting paid.  

So, if we can use this season to get rid of Gase and reboot at QB, while hopefully achieving some organizational change long-term (could be pipedream), it will be worth it.  

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Coples and Milliner weren't in same draft. Richardson and Milliner were.

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I've said it before I'll say it again.

Build a team first and then add a QB.  Do not add the Qb and then build.

Most of the successful Qb at least recently  come to teams that aer at least partially if not more than that built.

My most desired outcome from this year is the jets to get the #1 pick and trade it for a bounty of picks.

Use that ammo plus the adams ammo and in two years if you draft okay your team is on the big upswing then go after a QB if needed.

Most people on here would go totally ballistic if the jets did not pick lawrence but traded instead.  I wouldn't.

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4 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

 

Douglass entire 2020 draft class is injured.   The whole class.  2020 is a weird year with no off-season, but the entire class?    Parcells turned it around in 2 years so I guess there's some hope that history repeats but this beaten down franchise is at such rock bottom that you almost know they're going to blow the #1 pick with a meaningless week 17 win. 

I've pretty much tuned out the NFL but like all Jet fans we just want some hope and a reason to stick with the team.    Hopefully it starts with a new HC who can turn it around.  Seems like that guy could have been Rhule but of course we passed on him too.  

The notion that this "rebuilding" process is marathon not a sprint - is empirically wrong... The teams who live by that mantra are bottom dwellers; Jets, Browns, Lions, etc. 

Successful franchises with competent management routinely show us in 2 yrs plus, they go from Flacco to Lamar and back in the mix. That includes an overhaul on defense, Oline and skill players. 

Really good teams don't even rebuild. The only signal of change is QBs retiring/released. 

 

**100% we blew it with Rhule

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Make no mistake that this season is a direct result of Idzik and Mike Maccagnan running this team for 7 years. They both can be realistically categorized as some of the worst GM's in NFL history. Not below average, not bad, worst. 7 years in the NFL is an eternity and for 7 years the team could have been managed better by a chimpanzee making decisions with a dart board of fan suggestions from this very site. 

To say Douglas hasn't done anything is based purely on emotion. He did something that Maccaggnan never did, he assessed the weak points of this team and addressed them in a responsible manner. In his introductory press conference he said a line that every GM says but rarely commit to, he was going to build this team through the draft. He saw the OL was the weakest group on the team and he drafted 2 o linemen. People who say Becton was the obvious choice clearly haven't been watching the Jets the past 10 years and are looking back at anything to discount JD's success. Contrary to popular belief GM's do not have magic healing skills. Players get injured, there's nothing anyone can do to prevent that.  In addition to his draft picks, he signed low risk, high reward players from other teams to 1 year tryouts. The ones who perform get extensions, those who don't (GVR) will be on the street next year. He drafted the best punter in college football to shore up our punting situation. He drafted a very high ceiling safety because he knew Jamal was going to make noise this season. Is there any doubt that Mike M. would have paid Jamal a king's ransom to stay with us? 

ALL of the moves he is making are geared towards 2022 and beyond. The young players currently on the team will either prove they can be with us then or watch their replacements get drafted the next 2 years. 

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3 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

Make no mistake that this season is a direct result of Idzik and Mike Maccagnan running this team for 7 years. They both can be realistically categorized as some of the worst GM's in NFL history. Not below average, not bad, worst. 7 years in the NFL is an eternity and for 7 years the team could have been managed better by a chimpanzee making decisions with a dart board of fan suggestions from this very site. 

To say Douglas hasn't done anything is based purely on emotion. He did something that Maccaggnan never did, he assessed the weak points of this team and addressed them in a responsible manner. In his introductory press conference he said a line that every GM says but rarely commit to, he was going to build this team through the draft. He saw the OL was the weakest group on the team and he drafted 2 o linemen. People who say Becton was the obvious choice clearly haven't been watching the Jets the past 10 years and are looking back at anything to discount JD's success. Contrary to popular belief GM's do not have magic healing skills. Players get injured, there's nothing anyone can do to prevent that.  In addition to his draft picks, he signed low risk, high reward players from other teams to 1 year tryouts. The ones who perform get extensions, those who don't (GVR) will be on the street next year. He drafted the best punter in college football to shore up our punting situation. He drafted a very high ceiling safety because he knew Jamal was going to make noise this season. Is there any doubt that Mike M. would have paid Jamal a king's ransom to stay with us? 

ALL of the moves he is making are geared towards 2022 and beyond. The young players currently on the team will either prove they can be with us then or watch their replacements get drafted the next 2 years. 

As i said just above you - a Good GM (with appropriate support) doesn't need 3-4 yrs just get the team heading north of .500... with that said, most don't have a burned out Zeppelin carcass to work with either. Point Acknowledged. Not a pass, but an explanation. 

The problem is, outside of the draft, the biggest measure of a GM is his staff - of which 50%-70% is being decided by an arranged marriage from the Johnsons. It's hard to gauge JD's worth when he can't make certain decisions. Not a pass, but an explanation. 

If JD was given proper authority today, and didn't fire Adam Gase - i'd but him right next to Macc and Idzik. 

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13 minutes ago, Paradis said:

The notion that this "rebuilding" process is marathon not a sprint - is empirically wrong... The teams who live by that mantra are bottom dwellers; Jets, Browns, Lions, etc. 

Successful franchises with competent management routinely show us in 2 yrs plus, they go from Flacco to Lamar and back in the mix. That includes an overhaul on defense, Oline and skill players. 

Really good teams don't even rebuild. The only signal of change is QBs retiring/released. 

 

**100% we blew it with Rhule

This is the truth, look at the Saints, a team past it on the downswing and they become relevant again quickly with one fantastic draft year (2017)

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3 hours ago, SAR I said:

This is due, in large part, to noisy fans who fly planes, demand change, and want instant gratification.

SAR I

thats it blame the victim.

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3 hours ago, SAR I said:

This is due, in large part, to noisy fans who fly planes, demand change, and want instant gratification.  So for the better part of the last 20 years the Johnson's fire the coach, fire the GM, bring in a bunch of expensive free agents, watch us go 8-8 or 9-7, pretend its progress, and kick the can of the rebuild down the road.

Well, it's time to pay the piper.  And that time is now.  And it's going to be hard for awhile.  But when we come out of it we will be younger, hungrier, and have money tied up in high character players who play the right positions.  We'll have a HC and a GM who have built their own team in their own image.  We'll have a franchise quarterback.  And we'll be set for decades of sustained success like the Chiefs, Ravens, and Steelers.

SAR I

This is complete bs. Woody does what Woody wants. He doesn't give a shiit what the fans want. Gase is an arrogant, condescending and stubborn prick. He's Niedermeyer, fragged by his own troops. Douglas appears to want to do a good job. He's off to a rocky start but maybe he can actually learn and grow on the job. Still not ready to give up on Sam but if Lawrence is there I say take him and have a bakeoff.

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11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This is the truth, look at the Saints, a team past it on the downswing and they become relevant again quickly with one fantastic draft year (2017)

Even the bengals - who many enjoy poking fun at here and there -- understand this better than the Jets. By a country mile... No, they haven't been able to finish with Lombardis - but they seamlessly moved from Carson/Ocho/TJ into the Dalton/AJ/Defense era and now seem to already have a few strong pieces in place with Burrow/Mixon/Higgins and friends. Not a hanging of lantern of prestige on CIN - but like, we're not even in the same conversation.

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3 hours ago, TheClashFan said:

I disagree that the Jets have been rebuilding for years. Idzik did have that Idea as he cleared cap space, but he drafted horribly.  Maccagnan never tried to rebuild. He "went for it" from his first year when he used up all of Idzik's cap space. He tried to win every year, but just failed at it horribly and left the roster a total mess.

JD is clearly rebuilding, though. His first draft is a disappointment so far due to injuries, but also I think had a flawed strategy. Stop trying to draft a little bit of everything. Build an offense first with the OL. Even if Lawrence is the first pick next year, the next 3 picks at least should ALL be offense: at least 2 more OL and another WR.  Also, try to sign 1 truly good OL as a free agent. Overpay if necessary.

 

Honestly, I don't think you can plan a draft that way but I can only hope this works. I'm really sick of what is going on here. I can't believe 3 seasons after we drafted Darnold we are blowing up the team....AGAIN!!!

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Successful franchises with competent management routinely show us in 2 yrs plus, they go from Flacco to Lamar and back in the mix. That includes an overhaul on defense, Oline and skill players. 

That's a reload you're describing, not a rebuild.  Flacco went 13-12 in his final 1.5 seasons as the Ravens starter.  Not great but not terrible either.  The Ravens had a sh*t ton of talent to work with even when they needed to add a lot more pieces + a QB.

This is the most talent poor roster in the NFL, by far.  I'm not saying the team can't be drastically better in 2 years.  But it's probably wise temper your expectations on how long it will take to not just be competent but a contender. 

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21 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Honestly, I don't think you can plan a draft that way but I can only hope this works. I'm really sick of what is going on here. I can't believe 3 seasons after we drafted Darnold we are blowing up the team....AGAIN!!!

They can as long as they don't "reach" for any picks. Last year's draft was very deep at WR, and even OL, to a lesser extent. There would have been no reaching at OL or WR in the third round.  Rather, I think JD reached a bit in the 3rd round, esp. with Zuniga, who, while talented, was injured a lot at Florida.  Surprise, he's injured again. And Davis looks raw and reckless out there in limited action.

OL and WR still look pretty bad.  Maybe some guys emerge later this season, but they need to grab at least two OL and a WR early, especially if they draft Lawrence as the latest "franchise" QB.  Good news is, they'll have plenty of picks, and JD will probably trade down for more. I really really hope they target the top C in the draft either with the Seattle pick or their own 2nd, depending upon value.

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On 10/19/2020 at 10:38 AM, Biggs said:

This tear down is different.  This is one of the most efficient tear downs and tanks I have seen in well over 50 years of watching Jets football.  The efficiency of this tear down is in stark contrast to other Jets tear downs which weren't really tear downs.  They were more like a rot out and fall downs.  This actually looks like a planed tear down.  I'm inclined to believe this is actually a plan rather than incompetence.  Of course that's to be determined. 

 

Unless they trade Sam sooner rather than later, the tank is in jeopardy. Sam has had his troubles but he’s also had his moments and can pull a rabbit out his hat. He’ll probably play this week although our schedule is brutal over next 3 weeks. Seems CJ (not JD,  who can’t do squat w/o permission) is caught between rock and hard place whether or not to trade Sam. If you trade him now, it still doesn’t guarantee you get Trevor and if you keep Sam, he could screw up those chances of getting the #1. I’d play him a few games to show he’s healthy and then trade him. 

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Teams need playmakers.  We don't have any. Not a single one.  We had two and got rid of both.

But we do have an awful lot of resources right now - between the draft and cap.

Everything will come down to JD 's ability to build a team.  Right now we have close to knowledge on his ability to do that, but we'll find out soon.  This off-season is the biggest I can remember is a very long time.

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On 10/19/2020 at 11:04 AM, SAR I said:

This is due, in large part, to noisy fans who fly planes, demand change, and want instant gratification.  So for the better part of the last 20 years the Johnson's fire the coach, fire the GM, bring in a bunch of expensive free agents, watch us go 8-8 or 9-7, pretend its progress, and kick the can of the rebuild down the road.

Well, it's time to pay the piper.  And that time is now.  And it's going to be hard for awhile.  But when we come out of it we will be younger, hungrier, and have money tied up in high character players who play the right positions.  We'll have a HC and a GM who have built their own team in their own image.  We'll have a franchise quarterback.  And we'll be set for decades of sustained success like the Chiefs, Ravens, and Steelers.

SAR I

we can argue about gase but are you okay with douglas?  thus far i think he's done a good job.  it's not his direct fault there are so many injured players.  he got good players in the draft and while the free agents are pedestrian, they're a notch above the guys they replaced.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Teams need playmakers.  We don't have any. Not a single one.  We had two and got rid of both.

But we do have an awful lot of resources right now - between the draft and cap.

Everything will come down to JD 's ability to build a team.  Right now we have close to knowledge on his ability to do that, but we'll find out soon.  This off-season is the biggest I can remember is a very long time.

right about the playmaker part.  the jets haven't had anyone be scary good in 10 seasons.  as for adams and bell, they may be good players but they were wrong with regard to the team's rebuilding plan.  maybe after the team is established do you bring guys like adams and bell in through the draft or free agency.

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23 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I've said it before I'll say it again.

Build a team first and then add a QB.  Do not add the Qb and then build.

Most of the successful Qb at least recently  come to teams that aer at least partially if not more than that built.

My most desired outcome from this year is the jets to get the #1 pick and trade it for a bounty of picks.

Use that ammo plus the adams ammo and in two years if you draft okay your team is on the big upswing then go after a QB if needed.

Most people on here would go totally ballistic if the jets did not pick lawrence but traded instead.  I wouldn't.

So much easier said than done. And we really don't have that option. Feel free to keep saying it.

I can see the trade the Lawrence pick argument but Darnold needs to show improvement over the rest of the season. Not opposed to sticking Morgan in there at this point. An argument could be made for getting Sam just away from Gase, but that is an argument for not starting Morgan too.

 

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