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our former one trick pony leads the NFL in yards


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6 minutes ago, CTM said:

That logic stinks as bad as crushers under teet sweat. The jests had far better access and opportunity to evaluate Robbie than other teams who only saw game tape. Saying other organizations also didnt see the potential isnt a vindication of JD

 

The alternative that you and @AFJF are suggesting here is that Douglas should have paid Robby the $15 mil he was seeking to continue to catch 53% of the passes thrown at him on a bad team, at which point everyone would be crying about how Douglas bid against himself for a receiver who was not worth $15 million per, and probably still isn’t. 

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"But he has skinny ankles" "He dropped a pass that one time" "He's not a true number one" "He can only run one route" This is what groupthink does.  People stop paying attention to

robby is leading the league in wr yards -that is right folks  and is tied for second in catches-but dont worry folks  our gm brought in Perriman to take over and boy has he shown how great he is--mone

Macc gave enunwa the contract that Robbie earned

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2 hours ago, kmnj said:

robby is leading the league in wr yards -that is right folks  and is tied for second in catches-but dont worry folks  our gm brought in Perriman to take over and boy has he shown how great he is--money well spent there-

we went from a "one trick pony" to a no trick pony made of glass that has no hands

 

 

 

But Gase is the guy who brings out the best in folks??? :( 

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2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Just like:

"Adam Gase sucks"

"Fire Adam Gase"

"He is not an offensive guru"

"He is not a quarterback whisperer"

"He is ruining Sam"

This is what groupthink does.  people stop paying attention to the evidence in front of them and begin repeating widely held beliefs no matter how delusional as long as they're repeated often enough.

SAR I

 

Adam Gase is the Matt Millen of coaches!

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

But is he a guy you give a long contract to? That is what this boils down to. I am not sure. To me, I would always be worried about injuries. 

Why would you worry about injuries?  Was he ever seriously injured? No, but yet Darnold is injured EVERY year and no one seem to worry about that.   Also when you say "long term", he signed a TWO YEAR contract with the Panthers!  We couldn't offer the guy 2 or 3 freaking years???  An UDFA that we had under contract for PEANUTS FOR 4 YEARS??  We could'nt offer him more than the Panthers did, or better yet, lock him up before it got to that point?   Sorry but bottom line is JD ****ed up and let a emerging, home grown player go for really chump change. 

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think “the highest offer” should be considered “enough.”

It would be if Douglas actually made the highest offer, which he didn't.

Or how about offering the extension when Anderson wanted it, before the Jets made him finish the season under the RFA tag. At that point, sure he wanted to test the water. Macc and Douglas made him wait that long.

What's so problematic about it is even after those screwups, for ours to be the highest offer still wouldn't have cost very much. Not in the short term, and not in the long term. 

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Just now, JetBlue said:

Why would you worry about injuries?  Was he ever seriously injured? No, but yet Darnold is injured EVERY year and no one seem to worry about that.   Also when you say "long term", he signed a TWO YEAR contract with the Panthers!  We couldn't offer the guy 2 or 3 freaking years???  An UDFA that we had under contract for PEANUTS FOR 4 YEARS??  We could offer him more than the Panthers did?   Sorry but bottom line is JD ****ed up and let a emerging, home grown player go for really chump change. 

JD offered him 4/$40mm

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It would be if Douglas actually made the highest offer, which he didn't.

Or how about offering the extension when Anderson wanted it, before the Jets made him finish the season under the RFA tag. At that point, sure he wanted to test the water. Macc and Douglas made him wait that long.

What's so problematic about it is even after those screwups, for ours to be the highest offer still wouldn't have cost very much. Not in the short term, and not in the long term. 

How is the alleged 4/$40 less than 2/$20?

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It would be if Douglas actually made the highest offer, which he didn't.

Or how about offering the extension when Anderson wanted it, before the Jets made him finish the season under the RFA tag. At that point, sure he wanted to test the water. Macc and Douglas made him wait that long.

What's so problematic about it is even after those screwups, for ours to be the highest offer still wouldn't have cost very much. Not in the short term, and not in the long term. 

And when he'd be heading out here for Week 7 with 1/2 the rec and yds he has in Carolina, JD would be getting dragged for overpaying for a JAG...

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2 hours ago, genot said:

Because of his production here. The team he played for,uncertainty about him as a teammate. Also,we don't know for certainty what other teams showed interest. Once he had a chance to play for Rhule. That was it. It was obvious when he was here he was explosive and had a boatload of untapped potential Tom

I don't even know if that was it. That certainly was it when Carolina's offer was better. 

There was a lot of opportunity to outbid Carolina without even wading into the $15-16MM waters Anderson's agent leaked.

Never mind at the time Douglas turned down a 4th rounder for him he had about 300 yards and 1 TD. Demands would have been lower, and a team that sees him all camp long and in every practice every week ought to be able to see what he is more than his numbers. Particularly when they can see him open on non-attempts and open on misfires. Point being, simply replacing him with a different WR isn't going to improve the receiving corps as much as one hopes when the problem is the guy throwing it.

All these years the hope was to draft a QB and then while he's on his cheap contract to spare no expense. So they drafted this QB they dreamed of getting, and then let the WR corps get downgraded to save 1 year at $3MM while the team is tens of millions below the cap limit.

J!

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Just now, T0mShane said:

JD offered him 4/$40mm

His agent is no fool. Why should he lock himself into 4 years for the same money when he could become a free agent after 2?  Why didn't JD offer him 2 but with more money in the 2nd year?   Or if he was going to offer 4 years he could have sweetened the pot in the 3 and 4th years.  The guy is betting on his ability, you have to be impressed by that.   

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8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

How is the alleged 4/$40 less than 2/$20?

It isn't but he didn't want to lock himself into 4 year deal when he could become a FA in 2.  They guy was betting himself that he would improve enough to warrant even more money.  Why didn't JD take him up on that?   

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't even know if that was it. That certainly was it when Carolina's offer was better. 

There was a lot of opportunity to outbid Carolina without even wading into the $15-16MM waters Anderson's agent leaked.

Never mind at the time Douglas turned down a 4th rounder for him he had about 300 yards and 1 TD. Demands would have been lower, and a team that sees him all camp long and in every practice every week ought to be able to see what he is more than his numbers. Particularly when they can see him open on non-attempts and open on misfires. Point being, simply replacing him with a different WR isn't going to improve the receiving corps as much as one hopes when the problem is the guy throwing it.

All these years the hope was to draft a QB and then while he's on his cheap contract to spare no expense. So they drafted this QB they dreamed of getting, and then let the WR corps get downgraded to save 1 year at $3MM while the team is tens of millions below the cap limit.

J!

I am starting to believe that Douglas is a big believer in "character" and "leadership". Just look at some of the players that have been jettisoned away from this team. Those with legal brushes and some that are outspoken.

I am not saying that is right or wrong. Just appears to be a trend. At that rate, he will run out of talent he can bring to the franchise.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't even know if that was it. That certainly was it when Carolina's offer was better. 

There was a lot of opportunity to outbid Carolina without even wading into the $15-16MM waters Anderson's agent leaked.

Never mind at the time Douglas turned down a 4th rounder for him he had about 300 yards and 1 TD. Demands would have been lower, and a team that sees him all camp long and in every practice every week ought to be able to see what he is more than his numbers. Particularly when they can see him open on non-attempts and open on misfires. Point being, simply replacing him with a different WR isn't going to improve the receiving corps as much as one hopes when the problem is the guy throwing it.

All these years the hope was to draft a QB and then while he's on his cheap contract to spare no expense. So they drafted this QB they dreamed of getting, and then let the WR corps get downgraded to save 1 year at $3MM while the team is tens of millions below the cap limit.

J!

We didn't aggressively pursue him because Gase wasn't fond of him. Anderson is gone because of Gase,who had Douglase's ear. Douglas as GM was solely responsible for turning down a bad offer. I.E the 4th round offer. Good for him on that

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9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't even know if that was it. That certainly was it when Carolina's offer was better. 

There was a lot of opportunity to outbid Carolina without even wading into the $15-16MM waters Anderson's agent leaked.

Never mind at the time Douglas turned down a 4th rounder for him he had about 300 yards and 1 TD. Demands would have been lower, and a team that sees him all camp long and in every practice every week ought to be able to see what he is more than his numbers. Particularly when they can see him open on non-attempts and open on misfires. Point being, simply replacing him with a different WR isn't going to improve the receiving corps as much as one hopes when the problem is the guy throwing it.

All these years the hope was to draft a QB and then while he's on his cheap contract to spare no expense. So they drafted this QB they dreamed of getting, and then let the WR corps get downgraded to save 1 year at $3MM while the team is tens of millions below the cap limit.

J!

Great post.  JDs entire negotiating posture regarding Anderson was flawed from the beginning; the guy should have been a top priority and locked up as soon as possible into the free agency period; 2 years 24 million would have done the trick.   Meanwhile he is signing JAG OL and Cbs while leaving Robby dangling in the wind.   These athletes tend to be overly sensitive to things like that.  They want to feel valued (might sound corny but it is true),  not in words but in deeds.    Once his former coach came knocking he decided to go where he he felt he would be better valued and utilized with a chance of a even bigger payday in a few years.  It was a no brainer at that point. 

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17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

How is the alleged 4/$40 less than 2/$20?

Seriously?

  1. 4/40 locks the player in by binding him to the team without binding the team to the player.
  2. There is no chance of a pay raise for performing above that rate.
  3. The last 2 years - in fact, the last 3 years - aren’t guaranteed anyway, making those 2 “extra” years pure fluff.
  4. Not only are they pure fluff, but the only way the team still keeps him is if it’s still the kind of $ he could get as a UFA in 2022.
  5. Even further is the presumption - until shown otherwise - that those last 2 years would be backloaded a bit, since that’s how pretty much all long term contracts are done to prevent the player from coasting. 

So in effect, the likely real-world, apples to apples comparison is 

  • 2/$20MM with $12MM fully guaranteed from Carolina with a chance at making far more than 4/40 (which he'll certainly get at this rate).
  • 2/$16MM to 2/$18MM with $8-10MM fully guaranteed from the Jets, and no chance at exceeding 4/40. 

And that’s also probably why Anderson called BS on it when the idea was floated that the Jets offered him more.

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3 hours ago, kmnj said:

robby is leading the league in wr yards -that is right folks  and is tied for second in catches-but dont worry folks  our gm brought in Perriman to take over and boy has he shown how great he is--money well spent there-

we went from a "one trick pony" to a no trick pony made of glass that has no hands

 

 

 

Good for Robby, I didn't think he had it in him. He is so small I was concerned he wouldn't hold up. He worked hard, matured and is setting himself up for a nice pay day.

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Everyone does realize that if Robby stayed Joe Douglas would be getting killed for paying a guy who has 112 receiving yards on the year. That is where he would be at in Gase's offense.

So keeping Robby or not keeping Robby, really doesn't matter because the Jets have much bigger problems right now.

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6 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

It isn't but he didn't want to lock himself into 4 year deal when he could become a FA in 2.  They guy was betting himself that he would improve enough to warrant even more money.  Why didn't JD take him up on that?   

So, here’s the thing with that. If Anderson leads the universe in receiving stats and wins NFL MVP, he’s locked into a one-year, $8 million dollar contract with the Panthers next season and the Panthers can laugh all the way to the bank. Granted, he can hold out, but if he blew up with the Jets this year, he could have held out, too. I’m not sure what you guys wanted Douglas to do with Anderson other than promise him sh*tloads of money that—to this very day—Robby hasn’t been offered anywhere else

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Just now, T0mShane said:

So, here’s the thing with that. If Anderson leads the universe in receiving stats and wins NFL MVP, he’s locked into a one-year, $8 million dollar contract with the Panthers next season and the Panthers can laugh all the way to the bank. Granted, he can hold out, but if he blew up with the Jets this year, he could have held out, too. I’m not sure what you guys wanted Douglas to do with Anderson other than promise him sh*tloads of money that—to this very day—Robby hasn’t been offered anywhere else

Yeah, except no.

Players don't holdout 1 year into a 4-year contract.

He won't even have to hold out next year either. Rather, the likely path is Carolina gives him an extension that takes the relationship beyond 2021 so they don't lose him to free agency after year 2 there.

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15 minutes ago, HessStation said:

It’s amazing how people create crazy false narratives. Jets offered him the most money. Dude didn’t want to stay here. And I don’t blame him 

He offered him the most money?  How much of that was guaranteed?  Come on man this is the NFL not NBA.  Why sign for a 4 year deal and lock yourself in (meanwhile the team has all the flexibility), when you can sign a 2 year deal and sign another contract for more money two years PLUS another signing bonus which is GUARANTEED btw.    JD tried to play him and it back fired.   He could have just as easily offered him 2 years for 24 or 25 million and probably would have signed him, especially if he had made that offer early on in FA.   

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously?

  1. 4/40 locks the player in by binding him to the team without binding the team to the player.
  2. There is no chance of a pay raise for performing above that rate.
  3. The last 2 years - in fact, the last 3 years - aren’t guaranteed anyway, making those 2 “extra” years pure fluff.
  4. Not only are they pure fluff, but the only way the team still keeps him is if it’s still the kind of $ he could get as a UFA in 2022.
  5. Even further is the presumption - until shown otherwise - that those last 2 years would be backloaded a bit, since that’s how pretty much all long term contracts are done to prevent the player from coasting. 

So in effect, the likely real-world, apples to apples comparison is 

  • 2/$20MM with $12MM fully guaranteed from Carolina with a chance at making far more than 4/40 (which he'll certainly get at this rate).
  • 2/$16MM to 2/$18MM with $8-10MM fully guaranteed from the Jets, and no chance at exceeding 4/40. 

And that’s also probably why Anderson called BS on it when the idea was floated that the Jets offered him more.

So, in this math, Robby bailed for the extra $2 mil guaranteed presuming that the Jets were only guaranteeing ~$18 mil of the $40 mil for a player who—at the time—had no other suitors. 

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seriously?

  1. 4/40 locks the player in by binding him to the team without binding the team to the player.
  2. There is no chance of a pay raise for performing above that rate.
  3. The last 2 years - in fact, the last 3 years - aren’t guaranteed anyway, making those 2 “extra” years pure fluff.
  4. Not only are they pure fluff, but the only way the team still keeps him is if it’s still the kind of $ he could get as a UFA in 2022.
  5. Even further is the presumption - until shown otherwise - that those last 2 years would be backloaded a bit, since that’s how pretty much all long term contracts are done to prevent the player from coasting. 

So in effect, the likely real-world, apples to apples comparison is 

  • 2/$20MM with $12MM fully guaranteed from Carolina with a chance at making far more than 4/40 (which he'll certainly get at this rate).
  • 2/$16MM to 2/$18MM with $8-10MM fully guaranteed from the Jets, and no chance at exceeding 4/40. 

And that’s also probably why Anderson called BS on it when the idea was floated that the Jets offered him more.

I just posted the same thing. Just not as articulately as you lol. 

8 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Everyone does realize that if Robby stayed Joe Douglas would be getting killed for paying a guy who has 112 receiving yards on the year. That is where he would be at in Gase's offense.

So keeping Robby or not keeping Robby, really doesn't matter because the Jets have much bigger problems right now.

I gotta disagree. We have no way of knowing what Robby would or would not be doing.  In fact it is more likely that Sam would not have regressed as much with Robby plus having him stretch the field to open up the underneath for Crowder, Herndon and Bell.   These are all unknowable but I tend to think the latter is more likely than the former.   Remember the guy who may have been effected the most by this was our "franchise" quarterback. 

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32 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Great post.  JDs entire negotiating posture regarding Anderson was flawed from the beginning; the guy should have been a top priority and locked up as soon as possible into the free agency period; 2 years 24 million would have done the trick.   Meanwhile he is signing JAG OL and Cbs while leaving Robby dangling in the wind.   These athletes tend to be overly sensitive to things like that.  They want to feel valued (might sound corny but it is true),  not in words but in deeds.    Once his former coach came knocking he decided to go where he he felt he would be better valued and utilized with a chance of a even bigger payday in a few years.  It was a no brainer at that point. 

It wouldn't have taken 2/24 in October.

At that time there was no Rhule in Carolina or anywhere in the NFL, and Anderson had 300 yards and 1 TD when Douglas was turning down draft picks for him. And after turning down those offers, Anderson couldn't have been more elated on Twitter. The point being he wanted to stay here; that is, until he saw the team didn't offer him dick for the next 2 months.

By that time there was nothing in it for him to sign here without first seeing what other offers he could get and said as much at the close of the season. As it turns out, that was the correct decision: even though he didn't get as much as he wanted it was a better deal and opportunity than the Jets were offering.  

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah, except no.

Players don't holdout 1 year into a 4-year contract.

He won't even have to hold out next year either. Rather, the likely path is Carolina gives him an extension that takes the relationship beyond 2021 so they don't lose him to free agency after year 2 there.

You just said in your prior post that the guaranteed portion of the Jets contract only carried the deal through two years, the years three and four being “fluff.” Good on Robby for betting on himself and putting up numbers, but I still don’t see how it’s a criminal offense by Douglas to see what Anderson produced for three years and compensate him based on the unlikely hypothetical that he was going to improve overnight, given what they saw in practice and on his police report. You’ll recall that this is a 6’3” dude with 4.3 speed and good hands who went undrafted out of a decent program. It’s revisionist to say, “of course Anderson is going to straighten up and turn it around, and of course we should have paid him X at his desired terms.” No one other than the Jets and Panthers even considered it.

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9 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Amen.

Are you also a sheep, Max?

We can all agree Gase isnt a good HC.

Landry had more catches / Miami under gAse than he did under Philbin and now at CLeve.

Drake is almost exactly the same player he was yards/carry, but less yards/catch...

SO YOU KNEW that Tannehill was a borderline elite talent being squarshed by Philbin and Gase?

It's a tired trope. 

Zero people were syaing what a deal the Titans pulled off by nabbing Tanny for a 4th and a 6th,.,,  and having him be the b/u?

Why didnt people HERE at JN want to go after Tanny?

Sure, GAse is bad. So is the tired-ass trope.

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12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, here’s the thing with that. If Anderson leads the universe in receiving stats and wins NFL MVP, he’s locked into a one-year, $8 million dollar contract with the Panthers next season and the Panthers can laugh all the way to the bank. Granted, he can hold out, but if he blew up with the Jets this year, he could have held out, too. I’m not sure what you guys wanted Douglas to do with Anderson other than promise him sh*tloads of money that—to this very day—Robby hasn’t been offered anywhere else

I wanted him to sign him early in FA, rewarding the UDFA who proved to be very solid and improving wideout with deep speed.  The player who Sam was developing nice chemistry with.   Why did he need to wait for other suitors? Why couldn't he establish a base line value for player like Robby and then get him signed?  Why play games?  I don't care how you try to justify it but I was thinking these things in real time when he first became a free agent.  In fact lets to a step further, why not try and get him signed before he even became a free agent?   It was this strategy, semi hard line negotiating tactic that turned Anderson off.   

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7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, in this math, Robby bailed for the extra $2 mil guaranteed presuming that the Jets were only guaranteeing ~$18 mil of the $40 mil for a player who—at the time—had no other suitors. 

The Jets weren't fully guaranteeing anywhere near $18MM. Probably about half that. 

No he bailed for an extra $2MM guaranteed plus a chance to make far more. 

Something like:

year 1 = $10MM cash ($4MM SB + $6MM salary, or whatever the split; call it $10MM)

year 2 = $8MM salary

year 3 = $10MM salary

year 4 = $12MM salary

= 4/$40MM with $10MM guaranteed. If he's not performing he doesn't see $23MM of the $40MM and it's 2 years $18MM with $10MM guaranteed. If he is performing he would have made $2MM more in years 1-2 plus now has a chance at the $15MM/year contract he truly wanted (and will certainly get at this rate). 

 

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You just said in your prior post that the guaranteed portion of the Jets contract only carried the deal through two years, the years three and four being “fluff.” Good on Robby for betting on himself and putting up numbers, but I still don’t see how it’s a criminal offense by Douglas to see what Anderson produced for three years and compensate him based on the unlikely hypothetical that he was going to improve overnight, given what they saw in practice and on his police report. You’ll recall that this is a 6’3” dude with 4.3 speed and good hands who went undrafted out of a decent program. It’s revisionist to say, “of course Anderson is going to straighten up and turn it around, and of course we should have paid him X at his desired terms.” No one other than the Jets and Panthers even considered it.

1 year guaranteed. I wrote the last 3 years aren't guaranteed.

The "two" was to illustrate that the 2 extra years the Jets offered were 0% guaranteed, not that therefore the first two were guaranteed.

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The alternative that you and @AFJF are suggesting here is that Douglas should have paid Robby the $15 mil he was seeking to continue to catch 53% of the passes thrown at him on a bad team, at which point everyone would be crying about how Douglas bid against himself for a receiver who was not worth $15 million per, and probably still isn’t. 

I'm not suggesting anything. I think Darnold is a big part of the problem.

But this idea that JD and other team GM had access to the same information is crusher dung

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On 10/19/2020 at 4:50 PM, AFJF said:

"But he has skinny ankles"

"He dropped a pass that one time"

"He's not a true number one"

"He can only run one route"

This is what groupthink does.  People stop paying attention to the evidence in front of them and begin repeating widely held beliefs no matter how delusional as long as they're repeated often enough.

Robbie wanted to get paid. Therefore the horde had to shred his game to bits. Jets fandom 101.

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On 10/19/2020 at 1:45 PM, T0mShane said:

How is the alleged 4/$40 less than 2/$20?

Because he won't be locked in for 4 yrs... after 2 he can test the waters again... his thinking is he'll improve upon his past performance & get a better contract.

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