Trevor Lawrence Not the answer: MERGED

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Has anyone actually taken the position that drafting Lawrence is the only thing this team needs to be competitive?

well if we get the first picks we wont have to trade draft capital so there's that. If that happens for the Jets we will have a good amount of picks remaining this upcoming draft year and next

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

He has a sub par game against the best team in the country and that's what we want to focus on. Okay.  Jets Fans Gonna Jet.  What is it "to Jet" you ask?  When you look a gift horse in the mouth and find the one cavity that needs filling.  

Jets fans would complain about the taxes if they won the Mega Millions jackpot 

[y2k8]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

And Darnold wasnt very good at USC either. He was propelled by the northeast media complex who watched the Rose Bowl and nothing else.

Fact Check: FALSE. Total nonsense. If he was overhyped it certainly wasn't driven by Northeast media. Not even close.

[JetBlue]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

I've tried to warn people of his flaws but they dont want to hear it my man.  As I've said before, if the Jets actually land Trevor Lawrence....he is going to leave IMO the best situation in college Football for the worst situation in the NFL.  It's going to be a disaster all over again.  He wont be facing Georgia Tech on Sunday.

Give it rest already. We know you prefer Fields.  His "flaws" are fixable and are not nearly at the level you seem to be making them out to be. 

We could go back and look at posts on Mahomes and folks talking about his "flaws" that he would need to correct as well. 

TL himself has talked about many of these things so he is well aware (more so than you I would guess) of what he needs to work on.  He is not some finished product that can not improve.  With his desire, talent and work ethic there is no doubt he will continue to improve.  In fact, having that poor game against LSU was probably the best thing to happen to him.   As far as the Jet situation, you don't know how our situation will look but the time the draft rolls around.  We have an entire second half of the season to play and I fully expect guys like Mims, Becton, Davis, Huff, Clark, perhaps Hall, to step up and give glimpse of what the future could be.  Depending on who we hire as a coach and what players are signed in FA, this team could have an entirely different feel by Draft day.    I don't know what it is about Jet fans... then again, actually I do.   

[ID.]

10 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

“To you I say watch Darnold throw a football then watch Lawrence or even Fields and there is a night and day difference. When you have a QB like Darnold who came into the NFL with major mechanic flaws...”

To Sam’s credit, he seems to have overcome the ‘looping’ throwing motion and made it more compact.  To me, his biggest issue, is still not stepping into his throws.  That is his biggest weakness and one that will prevent him from being elite...

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, ID. said:

To Sam’s credit, he seems to have overcome the ‘looping’ throwing motion and made it more compact.  To me, his biggest issue, is still not stepping into his throws.  That is his biggest weakness and one that will prevent him from being elite...

100 % correct he does not step into his throws at all and its so bad when hes in the Pocket Im not sure how there is not more discussion in the media about it and former players that cover this crap.

[greenwichjetfan]

12 hours ago, win4ever said:

Assuming we get the No. 1 pick right now (or even No. 2 to be honest, because I love Fields as well), I wouldn't trade Darnold.  You pick up his 5th year option, and you see what he has with a new coach, and possibly better talent.  It might be similar to the Kelly Bryant issue at Clemson, but Darnold's value is at it's lowest coming off a sh*t show this year between injuries and Gase.  

This way, we allow Lawrence to develop instead of throwing him into the fire right away, and possibly have him understand the game.  If Darnold does well, you have a luxury problem.  If Darnold doesn't do well, he's still young and under contract for one more year retaining some value.  

The risk is of course, someone like Darnold fetches a high second or low first to someone that fetches low second or high third.  However, the payoff could be someone that fetches a good first round pick if he remotely proves to be good when we actually have a bit more talent around him.  I don't understand the Darnold must be traded the moment we secure the first pick line, because we're selling really low on Darnold, when guys like Tannehill rebuilt their value without Gase.  

If we hate Gase so much, and we agree that he isn't an offensive genius (and I'm guilty of buying into his kool aid), then why trade Darnold much like Miami traded Tannehill?  I'd rather see if there's a chance he could rebuild his value.  

On to Lawrence, I think he's a slightly better version of Darnold coming out of college.  He has a better arm, and I think a better understanding of pre-snap concepts.  The issue really about his transition to the NFL depends on the system, because I don't think many QBs will survive on the garbage we throw out there.  I see more complex offenses being run in like Conference USA.  

We need a system that utilizes RPO because both Darnold/Lawrence (Fields) are athletic enough to be a threat, although we don't need to go Lamar Jackson level.  Pre-snap motions to allow the QB to discern what kind of coverage, so they have a better understanding.  A coach that actually understands how to make adjustments to the system based on their player's skills.  

I don't know if Lawrence is the answer, but I don't think trading Darnold the moment Lawrence becomes a Jet is the answer as well.  

This has been my take since week 1. I'm not sold on Trevor being a generational talent. I don't think he's anywhere near Peyton or Elway, and I think he has more bust potential than Luck. Still, he's easily one of the best prospects to come out in a few years, and is deserving of the #1 pick. You have to take Trevor if he's available without trading up, but also keep Darnold. See how Darnold does with a real OC/playcaller, and go from there. You'll miss out on the king's ransom for the #1 pick, but save on the crappy return for what is perceived as a damaged Darnold. Either way, you give yourself the best possible chance at keeping the FQB of the next decade here. 

 

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Give it rest already. We know you prefer Fields.  His "flaws" are fixable and are not nearly at the level you seem to be making them out to be. 

We could go back and look at posts on Mahomes and folks talking about his "flaws" that he would need to correct as well. 

TL himself has talked about many of these things so he is well aware (more so than you I would guess) of what he needs to work on.  He is not some finished product that can not improve.  With his desire, talent and work ethic there is no doubt he will continue to improve.  In fact, having that poor game against LSU was probably the best thing to happen to him.   As far as the Jet situation, you don't know how our situation will look but the time the draft rolls around.  We have an entire second half of the season to play and I fully expect guys like Mims, Becton, Davis, Huff, Clark, perhaps Hall, to step up and give glimpse of what the future could be.  Depending on who we hire as a coach and what players are signed in FA, this team could have an entirely different feel by Draft day.    I don't know what it is about Jet fans... then again, actually I do.   

when manning came into the league as great as he was he had the worst foot work and a terrible case of happy feet but Peyton somehow figured how to play with those happy feet and as the years went on it became second nature because his brain made up for that relatively minor flaw because the guy knew how to properly throw a football

[BROOKLYN JET]

Yeah who wants this Shaggy lookin effer, let's just stick with Daphne.

[JetBlue]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If you build it (a team), he will come ( a franchise QB).

The Jets almost always have it backwards. Why do we keep thinking that some QB savior is magically going to make the franchise a contender.  You have to build the team for the QB to have any chance of success. Trevor Lawrence can't catch the ball for his receivers, make them run better routes, stop the other O from scoring, eliminate the stupid penalties, or any of the other plethora of things that plague our poorly coached team. 

Hey Jet Fans, there is no savior! You wanna be saved?, string 4 or 5 decent draft classes together so you have the luxury of drafting the BAP every round. Then, and only then, will you be able to trade up to the 12th pick or so and snag a QB you really like who ends up looking a whole lot better than the #1 overall pick you selected and surrounded with garbage.

If the Jets select Lawrence he had better hope that the Jets keep Sam around to rescue Trevor from the 2021 Jets.

You can actually do both at the same time you know.   Part of building that team is having the brains to draft that quarterback when he is staring you in the face.  You don't say "we can't draft this top quarterback now because we don't have the pieces to put around him yet."  See how ridiculous that sounds?    You keep drafting top qb talent until you get you franchise qb.    When you have one and perhaps two (Fields) sitting their for the picking, you run not walk, to the podium and make your selection.   Then you continue adding talent to your roster, especially on the offensive side of the ball.  

[Matt39]

29 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Fact Check: FALSE. Total nonsense. If he was overhyped it certainly wasn't driven by Northeast media. Not even close.

What was it driven by then? Darnolds popularity skyrocketed after the Rose Bowl.

[DetroitRed]

I'd like to see him play under pressure, but he never is

[Sonny Werblin]

18 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

You can actually do both at the same time you know.   Part of building that team is having the brains to draft that quarterback when he is staring you in the face.  You don't say "we can't draft this top quarterback now because we don't have the pieces to put around him yet."  See how ridiculous that sounds?    You keep drafting top qb talent until you get you franchise qb.    When you have one and perhaps two (Fields) sitting their for the picking, you run not walk, to the podium and make your selection.   Then you continue adding talent to your roster, especially on the offensive side of the ball.  

Do you take the qb when you can convert the pick into 4 or 5 players taken in the first two rounds and you already have a top QB prospect on your roster?

[Beerfish]

55 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

He has a sub par game against the best team in the country and that's what we want to focus on. Okay.  Jets Fans Gonna Jet.  What is it "to Jet" you ask?  When you look a gift horse in the mouth and find the one cavity that needs filling.  

The point is he was bad vs lsu and not great vs ohio state, about the only game where talent level are equal.  Most every other game clemson has way more talent.  This years playoff is important to see if he is dominant or not.

[genot]

Would you rather have TL,or Darnold and 5 to seven extra picks. To me it's a no brainer. Give me Darnold and those picks. I think Darnold has shown more than enough with the personal and stinken HC we have to justify passing on Trevor and getting those picks.

[maury77]

2 hours ago, win4ever said:

Assuming we get the No. 1 pick right now (or even No. 2 to be honest, because I love Fields as well), I wouldn't trade Darnold.  You pick up his 5th year option, and you see what he has with a new coach, and possibly better talent.  It might be similar to the Kelly Bryant issue at Clemson, but Darnold's value is at it's lowest coming off a sh*t show this year between injuries and Gase.  

This way, we allow Lawrence to develop instead of throwing him into the fire right away, and possibly have him understand the game.  If Darnold does well, you have a luxury problem.  If Darnold doesn't do well, he's still young and under contract for one more year retaining some value.  

The risk is of course, someone like Darnold fetches a high second or low first to someone that fetches low second or high third.  However, the payoff could be someone that fetches a good first round pick if he remotely proves to be good when we actually have a bit more talent around him.  I don't understand the Darnold must be traded the moment we secure the first pick line, because we're selling really low on Darnold, when guys like Tannehill rebuilt their value without Gase.  

If we hate Gase so much, and we agree that he isn't an offensive genius (and I'm guilty of buying into his kool aid), then why trade Darnold much like Miami traded Tannehill?  I'd rather see if there's a chance he could rebuild his value.  

On to Lawrence, I think he's a slightly better version of Darnold coming out of college.  He has a better arm, and I think a better understanding of pre-snap concepts.  The issue really about his transition to the NFL depends on the system, because I don't think many QBs will survive on the garbage we throw out there.  I see more complex offenses being run in like Conference USA.  

We need a system that utilizes RPO because both Darnold/Lawrence (Fields) are athletic enough to be a threat, although we don't need to go Lamar Jackson level.  Pre-snap motions to allow the QB to discern what kind of coverage, so they have a better understanding.  A coach that actually understands how to make adjustments to the system based on their player's skills.  

I don't know if Lawrence is the answer, but I don't think trading Darnold the moment Lawrence becomes a Jet is the answer as well.  

The problem with this scenario is, what happens if you bring back Darnold and Lawrence beats him out? Darnold's value tanks even worse than it already has. 

[maury77]

Lawrence, on his own, won't turn this franchise around. Mahomes wouldn't be able to. That being said, what Jets fans have to absolutely pray for is that:

a) ownership gives Douglas free rein to choose the coach and doesn't force a "budget" on him. 

b) hope that the prospect of having Lawrence entices a legitimate coach to come here (no coordinators)

c) Hope that Mims hits

d) Hope that you hit on the other 4 first rounders over the next 2 years (if the Jets pick 1st overall, pick 33 is almost like having another 1st rounder)

[Lupz27]

3 hours ago, shevys said:

Agreed. While I don't think Darnold was a bad pick or a blunder, if Lawrence is available you have to grab him. Look at what the Cards did a year after drafting Rosen when they thought Kyler Murray was the guy for them. Sh*t happens.

Yes you have to stop making decisions based on the past, IF something is better then you have you have to 

[adb280z]

5 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Was Elway a miracle cure for Denver?  No he wasn't in fact until the got Terrell Davis it looked like he would never win a Superbowl (although he took his team to several.)   Guess what, you still take Elway right?  Same with Lawrence.  No one has a crystal ball and can see the future but only an idiot passes over TL because of Sam Darnold.  Sorry that is just fact.  

Elway dragged three mediocre teams to the playoffs and finally won 2 when he had some real offensive weapons along with him.  It wasn't just Davis, he also had Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey.  I'd be thrilled to have a Jets QB have a career like his.

[heymangold]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

Zero acknowledgement from many on his average at best performance last year in the playoffs. 

So him going for 250 and 2 TDs with another 107 on the ground and a TD against Ohio State is an average performance?  Sure his passing wasn’t jaw dropping but I’ll take that stat line every week if it means no turnovers and a W.

[heymangold]

That morning show is one of the worst things I’ve heard.  

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

JET FANS BE LIKE...

Trevor has one bad game: “He’s not as good as everyone thinks!”

Sam has 25 bad games: “He’s not as bad as everyone thinks!”

JN fanboy posters be like - NFL schedules and College schedules are comparable. 

[hungry jackson]

Does this mean that the Flacco era is over?

[Paradis]

7 minutes ago, heymangold said:

So him going for 250 and 2 TDs with another 107 on the ground and a TD against Ohio State is an average performance?  Sure his passing wasn’t jaw dropping but I’ll take that stat line every week if it means no turnovers and a W.

You figured how to use google. Good stuff. Tell me more about the ebb and flow of the game  

he had problems throughout The 2019 campaign. Was he even in the Heisman conversation? Smh sorry for preaching for prudence in October when youre already on your knees loosening your jaw. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

Give it rest already. We know you prefer Fields.  His "flaws" are fixable and are not nearly at the level you seem to be making them out to be. 

We could go back and look at posts on Mahomes and folks talking about his "flaws" that he would need to correct as well. 

TL himself has talked about many of these things so he is well aware (more so than you I would guess) of what he needs to work on.  He is not some finished product that can not improve.  With his desire, talent and work ethic there is no doubt he will continue to improve.  In fact, having that poor game against LSU was probably the best thing to happen to him.   As far as the Jet situation, you don't know how our situation will look but the time the draft rolls around.  We have an entire second half of the season to play and I fully expect guys like Mims, Becton, Davis, Huff, Clark, perhaps Hall, to step up and give glimpse of what the future could be.  Depending on who we hire as a coach and what players are signed in FA, this team could have an entirely different feel by Draft day.    I don't know what it is about Jet fans... then again, actually I do.   

No, you give it a rest! 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

And Darnold wasnt very good at USC either. He was propelled by the northeast media complex who watched the Rose Bowl and nothing else.

Wrong again.

NE media, thats the funnest part

 

[JetBlue]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

No, you give it a rest! 

No YOU give it a rest!! (Okay your turn)

[JetBlue]

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

JN fanboy posters be like - NFL schedules and College schedules are comparable. 

Pat Mahomes....

[BigRy56]

All that matters is that when our QB takes the field next year that the Jets have continued to dump resources into the OL. Sign Joe Thuney, draft another OL early... set Trevor or Sam v2 up for ultimate success

[heymangold]

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You figured how to use google. Good stuff. Tell me more about the ebb and flow of the game  

he had problems throughout The 2019 campaign. Was he even in the Heisman conversation? Smh sorry for preaching for prudence in October when youre already on your knees loosening your jaw. 

Could care less about the ebb and flow of the game.  Anytime I’ve watched him play, he’s made more plays than darnold ever did. He’s a better qb than sam was in college, in every facet. I’m not passing on him on the hopes that Sam is going to be better under a new coach AND have to pay him.

also, you’ve seen this board - prudence isn’t exactly a common trait here.

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

JN fanboy posters be like - NFL schedules and College schedules are comparable. 

So what do you propose we do to evaluate college QBs? Get Doc Brown to build us a time machine so we can put them into an NFL game before we draft them?

[Jet Nut]

31 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The point is he was bad vs lsu and not great vs ohio state, about the only game where talent level are equal.  Most every other game clemson has way more talent.  This years playoff is important to see if he is dominant or not.

So all the experts calling him the best QB prospect since Elway didnt see those games?  

Was Clemson as good as either of those teams?  Because if we're going to beat him up for the games where Clemson is more talented, it has to go the other way too.  He didnt have problems the year before. 

What did Peyton win at Tenn?  

Elway?  He never won. bowl game

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You figured how to use google. Good stuff. Tell me more about the ebb and flow of the game  

he had problems throughout The 2019 campaign. Was he even in the Heisman conversation? Smh sorry for preaching for prudence in October when youre already on your knees loosening your jaw. 

Would you agree with the premise that Lawrence is the best prospect since Luck, or is the hype machine out of control?

[jgb]

 

17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You figured how to use google. Good stuff. Tell me more about the ebb and flow of the game  

he had problems throughout The 2019 campaign. Was he even in the Heisman conversation? Smh sorry for preaching for prudence in October when youre already on your knees loosening your jaw. 

Ironic since all of this Trevor bashing is an attempt by homers to rush to the rescue of their poor wittle misunderstood Sammy Pie. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, ID. said:

To Sam’s credit, he seems to have overcome the ‘looping’ throwing motion and made it more compact.  To me, his biggest issue, is still not stepping into his throws.  That is his biggest weakness and one that will prevent him from being elite...

Ya he gets it into the opposing teams’ hands much faster now