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CanadaSteve

Here is why Darnold should/should not be traded

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Open discussion, not leaning one way or the other, but trying to find the pros/cons in both arguments

SHOULD NOT BE TRADED

Darnold, even in his third year, is STILL one of the youngest starting QB's in the league.  Does great out of the pocket, and hit targets accurately while on the run.  Has a decent arm.  Has a VERY chill attitude, keeps a level head.  He has NOT had any weapons, any line protection, or any consistency with coaching during this fiasco.  With the right guidance, he has the potential.

SHOULD BE TRADED

Going into 4th yr and a contract could be looming.  While Darnold has not had a great supporting cast, wouldn't a true number one QB make his team better?  Did Mahomes not take a good KC team and make them great?  But Darnold hasn't taken a bad team and made them decent, the team has increasingly got worse with him under centre.  If there is a chance for Lawrence, shouldn't we take him and reset the QB salary clock?

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The only way I trade him is if we draft Lawrence. At this point I’m not ready to say Fields > Sam. That could change obviously with the big 10 starting up this week and we see how Fields does 

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I don’t think they should trade darnold unless they get Lawrence in their back pocket.  I know darnold hasn’t had a lot of team talent support over the past 3 seasons. But that also means he hasnt had a chance to develop his skills. In year 4 it will be like he’s starting over.  If Lawrence is picked then he would most likely be coming onto a team where conditions are improving and starting from a position not that far from where darnold is now.  Since Lawrence is supposed to be a generational talent he should be able to make things better. And this is ignoring the whole contract issue if the jets do opt for a fifth year.

one last point is that darnold wont have the luxury of sitting on the bench at the start of next season while a vet starts first few games. I suspect the jets will use a vet and keep Lawrence on the bench for a time.

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7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Let me save you some time. If the Jets have a chance to select Lawrence, Sam will be traded. If the Jets can't select Lawrence, they won't. 

There, that is the case for trading or not trading Sam

They can't trade Darnold until Lawrence is actually on the team.  Just like the Cardinals did with Josh Rosen after selecting Kyler Murray.

It would be sooooo Jetsy to watch the Jets trade Darnold and even draft Lawrence only to have him demand a trade after being taken just like Eli Manning did.

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7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Let me save you some time. If the Jets have a chance to select Lawrence, Sam will be traded. If the Jets can't select Lawrence, they won't. 

There, that is the case for trading or not trading Sam

True enough.  But one point that’s overlooked is qbs like Jackson it Superman or Murray or Vick or rg3 have limited shelf lives. It seems that Lawrence is more of a traditional passer but with mobility so he’s not apt to get clobbered by running.

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If the Jets can increase talent while saving money at a position, they should. 

One of the arguments for keeping Sam should be that he has more experience in Adam Gase's offense...but that is actually something working against him at this point.      

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2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

I don’t think they should trade darnold unless they get Lawrence in their back pocket.  I know darnold hasn’t had a lot of team talent support over the past 3 seasons. But that also means he hasnt had a chance to develop his skills. In year 4 it will be like he’s starting over.  If Lawrence is picked then he would most likely be coming onto a team where conditions are improving and starting from a position not that far from where darnold is now.  Since Lawrence is supposed to be a generational talent he should be able to make things better. And this is ignoring the whole contract issue if the jets do opt for a fifth year.

one last point is that darnold wont have the luxury of sitting on the bench at the start of next season while a vet starts first few games. I suspect the jets will use a vet and keep Lawrence on the bench for a time.

This idea that a vet will be brought in and Lawrence will sit for a year absolutely will not happen unless Darnold is traded before the deadline and a vet is brought in now and starts to win games. I mean who are they going to start? Flacco? I think that ship has sailed. Do we bring Fitz back who will likely be cut by the Fins next season? Without having an established starter in front of Lawrence if he does end up here, there will be no sitting for him. 

Also, as far as a new contract for Sam, are you really concerned about that. Sam certainly has not earned a blockbuster deal but even if he did, who else are the Jets going to be paying? There is nobody on this team and I doubt JD goes out and signs the next big ticket FA anything considering the state of this team. Even if he does bring in a JuJu or Julio, they aren't exactly bank breaking players. We are sitting on a bunch of cap money so this is the furthest thing to worry about

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Also, as far as a new contract for Sam, are you really concerned about that. Sam certainly has not earned a blockbuster deal but even if he did, who else are the Jets going to be paying? There is nobody on this team and I doubt JD goes out and signs the next big ticket FA anything considering the state of this team. Even if he does bring in a JuJu or Julio, they aren't exactly bank breaking players. We are sitting on a bunch of cap money so this is the furthest thing to worry about

The idea is to fill in the roster with vets/FA while the QB is on the rookie pay scale, so it's kind important what we pay the QB.

IMO - it's silly to even entertain keeping Darnold if we end up with the first pick. They're gonna have to cut him a big check if they keep him, he can't stay healthy and even when he's healthy he kinda sucks.

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1 minute ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

The idea is to fill in the roster with vets/FA while the QB is on the rookie pay scale, so it's kind important what we pay the QB.

IMO - it's silly to even entertain keeping Darnold if we end up with the first pick. They're gonna have to cut him a big check if they keep him, he can't stay healthy and even when he's healthy he kinda sucks.

It all is going to hinge on of Lawrence will be a Jet. If he is not going to be on the Jets, then Darnold is staying. 

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If the Jets land the #1 pick in next years draft Darnold will be traded if not they will not trade him.  Whoever gets him will get a real bargain.  Darnold is not rosen

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

It all is going to hinge on of Lawrence will be a Jet. If he is not going to be on the Jets, then Darnold is staying. 

I wouldn't believe that at all. JD didn't pick Darnold. Gase didn't pick Darnold. The coach they bring in will have no ties to Darnold.

It's entirely likely that JD walked in and saw this was a total rebuild - QB included.

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54 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Open discussion, not leaning one way or the other, but trying to find the pros/cons in both arguments

SHOULD NOT BE TRADED

Darnold, even in his third year, is STILL one of the youngest starting QB's in the league.  Does great out of the pocket, and hit targets accurately while on the run.  Has a decent arm.  Has a VERY chill attitude, keeps a level head.  He has NOT had any weapons, any line protection, or any consistency with coaching during this fiasco.  With the right guidance, he has the potential.

SHOULD BE TRADED

Going into 4th yr and a contract could be looming.  While Darnold has not had a great supporting cast, wouldn't a true number one QB make his team better?  Did Mahomes not take a good KC team and make them great?  But Darnold hasn't taken a bad team and made them decent, the team has increasingly got worse with him under centre.  If there is a chance for Lawrence, shouldn't we take him and reset the QB salary clock?

Yes, to the latter if we get the number 1 pick we should take Lawrence, trade Darnold and use the 18 picks (after Lawrence we'd still have 3 number 1's, 2 number 2's, 3 number 3's and a total of 18 picks in Lawrence's 1st 2 years and likely top 3-5 salary cap numbers among all teams). Even an average HC should do well with that and yes even Gase would probably do OK with that, but since he has screwed the pooch in too many ways i.e too many injuries, too many players not wanting to play for him, bad offensive games plans. tec. We definitely want him out of here as soon as 2020 season ends. His only use now is to preserve getting the number 1 pick. Lets hope Namath is wrong and this is not just the players like he said. Some men are just not meant to be HCs. Heck Bowles D over in Tampa just be the crap out of Rodgers so Bowles can coach D but is not a very good HC just like Gase probably will get an OC job after this and do fine, but just can't be a HC. I know many people say the Jets are hard to coach, but the flaws you see in both of our last 2 HCs are hard to deny that they would not occur with any team. Swapping these 2 HCs with Reid would likely make the Chiefs drop down multiple notches from greatness to OK or even bad at one point.

If we do not get the number 1 pick then go with 1 and build around Darnold with all of our draft picks the next 2 years and see how a workable contract without committing too much $ and time on the contract too quickly can be done. There are worse things that could happen to this team then that. Maybe Darnold will never be great, but with better players around him this team would get better at one point. 

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38 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Let me save you some time. If the Jets have a chance to select Lawrence, Sam will be traded. If the Jets can't select Lawrence, they won't. 

There, that is the case for trading or not trading Sam

100%

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39 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

I wouldn't believe that at all. JD didn't pick Darnold. Gase didn't pick Darnold. The coach they bring in will have no ties to Darnold.

It's entirely likely that JD walked in and saw this was a total rebuild - QB included.

If JD trades Darnold for Fields, I would totally think he is one more in a long line of idiot GM's we have had. If he spends the first or second or even the third pick on Fields instead of trading it for more picks, I probably will be done being a Jets fan until he is gone. We can fill a bunch of holes or make a lateral move. Making the lateral move is exactly what I would expect from an idiot GM. Hope he is not one

Also, I am not even sold Lawrence is this once in a lifetime QB but everyone else is so I am deferring to the crowd but Fields is just another high prospect and I don't expect him to do any better than Sam.

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48 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

This idea that a vet will be brought in and Lawrence will sit for a year absolutely will not happen unless Darnold is traded before the deadline and a vet is brought in now and starts to win games. I mean who are they going to start? Flacco? I think that ship has sailed. Do we bring Fitz back who will likely be cut by the Fins next season? Without having an established starter in front of Lawrence if he does end up here, there will be no sitting for him. 

Also, as far as a new contract for Sam, are you really concerned about that. Sam certainly has not earned a blockbuster deal but even if he did, who else are the Jets going to be paying? There is nobody on this team and I doubt JD goes out and signs the next big ticket FA anything considering the state of this team. Even if he does bring in a JuJu or Julio, they aren't exactly bank breaking players. We are sitting on a bunch of cap money so this is the furthest thing to worry about

I’m not concerned about darnolds fifth year contract because it’s not my money.  But paying him 20 million plus instead of Lawrence for around 8 million is quite a different that could be translated into a decent corner or wr or the or just about any linemen.  I see your point about throwing Lawrence in from day one. Manning did it. The jets did it with Sanchez and darnold. And we see mayfield and Allen in from day one.  I still think it would be better to use a vet if only until the team gets settled. It takes a few regular season games before teams get comfortable playing due to the reduced preseason and training camp practices.  And I wouldnt write off Flacco as that vet.

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13 minutes ago, rangerous said:

I’m not concerned about darnolds fifth year contract because it’s not my money.  But paying him 20 million plus instead of Lawrence for around 8 million is quite a different that could be translated into a decent corner or wr or the or just about any linemen.  I see your point about throwing Lawrence in from day one. Manning did it. The jets did it with Sanchez and darnold. And we see mayfield and Allen in from day one.  I still think it would be better to use a vet if only until the team gets settled. It takes a few regular season games before teams get comfortable playing due to the reduced preseason and training camp practices.  And I wouldnt write off Flacco as that vet.

I'd Flacco plays like the last two games, you will be seeing billboards to start Lawrence

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1 hour ago, 82nd Airborne said:

The real question is, will Joe D. keep the promise he made to Darnold's mom? I would trade down, draft the best OL, WR, RB and TE with acquired picks. Give this young man some weapons, a real coach and let's see what happens.  It is obvious that his development has been hindered by lack of support and coaching. 

He said he would protect Sam, right?  Trading him from this mess would make him a man of his word...

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Let me save you some time. If the Jets have a chance to select Lawrence, Sam will be traded. If the Jets can't select Lawrence, they won't. 

There, that is the case for trading or not trading Sam

It’s not black and white. This ain’t the Leave It To Beaver show. If Darnold plays, he risks the Jets draft position by winning a few games. Thus, no chance to get Trevor. Sooner or later, more likely sooner, he’ll be back.  Even 1 win could knock us out. But, if you trade him now, you have increased the odds of landing the #1 pick. Of course, it’s risky but we have all seen enough of Darnold to know he’s just not worth the hefty price tag required to keep him. I see keeping him as a bigger risk. 

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Let me save you some time. If the Jets have a chance to select Lawrence, Sam will be traded. If the Jets can't select Lawrence, they won't. 

There, that is the case for trading or not trading Sam

GREAT!  Only one problem with your thought out post:

Trading him after we know we have Lawrence is too late.  It has to be done before deadline or before draft next year

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17 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

GREAT!  Only one problem with your thought out post:

Trading him after we know we have Lawrence is too late.  It has to be done before deadline or before draft next year

Why would you trade Darnold without having Lawrence in-house? If we don't get Lawrence we should trade the high first rounder for more picks. Fields is a lateral move.

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#1 we take Lawrence.  I can't see us doing anything else.

#2 -5 though has a lot of upside as well.  I'm still on board with Darnold and if we could trade down a pick or two, pick up another 2nd rounder and maybe a little more sweetener, and get Ja'Marr Chase, that would be a home run.  We'd then have 6 or more picks in the first 3 rounds to finally start to turn over the stale roster we've been saddled with.

Pass rush would be tempting normally, but there's not really a Chase Young in this draft and we simply have got to draft an offensive weapon with our highest pick.

Dream scenario so far after that pick?  I'm thinking someone like Wyatt Davis.  Put him next to Becton and cash checks all day to the left.  Then come back around the top of the 2nd for the best CB and Edge on the board.  Rinse and repeat in the 3rd.  Now you have some hope on your roster.  

 

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We have a great young QB on the roster with no weapons...

We could get a ransom for the 1 pick. 
 

To me it’s a no brainer you trade the pick

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We should not trade Sam because we are not going to get the #1 pick. Minnesota is going to just mail it in and wind up with Lawrence.

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12 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

If the Jets can increase talent while saving money at a position, they should. 

One of the arguments for keeping Sam should be that he has more experience in Adam Gase's offense...but that is actually something working against him at this point.      

That would mean, that Adam Gase actually has an offense...

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Does anyone actually trust GASE with TL...  If DJ takes TL then it has to be stipulated that GASE must be fired.

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6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

We have a great young QB on the roster with no weapons...

We could get a ransom for the 1 pick. 
 

To me it’s a no brainer you trade the pick

What has he done to be considered great? Cause statistically speaking he has been one of the worst QB in league 3 years straight

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You can’t trade Sam until you know positively you will have the number 1 pick and Lawrence is coming.  That’s pretty much all there is to it. 

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13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

They can't trade Darnold until Lawrence is actually on the team.  Just like the Cardinals did with Josh Rosen after selecting Kyler Murray.

It would be sooooo Jetsy to watch the Jets trade Darnold and even draft Lawrence only to have him demand a trade after being taken just like Eli Manning did.

I don't think it would be that bad if the Jets held on to Darnold in this scenario. Imagine if Darnold and Lawrence competed in camp and both looked really good. What if both looked really good in preseason. Maybe Darnold would even end up being named starter- after all Trevor is a rookie. We could be in a Chargers scenario when they traded Brees after selecting Rivers. The value would go up and the Jets wouldn't feel like they lost anything because they have Lawrence- even if the trade happened at the trade deadline with a team who lost their QB to injury.  

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